blejdek Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, francis#17 said: I did one test and a couple others did tests with no advanced db options and the database seemed to be stable and actually increased in some cases. I actually was involved in some other thread about the same issue and you are right, most of the people, if my memory serves me right, did tests with advanced dbs. Everything you add to the game which is outside of the released game (Skins, dbs, faces, etc), impacts the game. But I am no programmer so I have no idea if its just the panel over things or if it goes any deeper in game system, which could make some spaggheti code inside of the game and maybe hurt the youth intake problems? I am just trying to think out of the box, dont hold me to it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 15 minutes ago, francis#17 said: I did one test and a couple others did tests with no advanced db options and the database seemed to be stable and actually increased in some cases. Yes, that is why I haven't selected any advanced db options for my save. I loaded the first league from 19 nations + all three leagues from Romania, where I play on starting my journey. I think with this setup I can have a long term save even if the fix will never happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveincid Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 vor 19 Minuten schrieb francis#17: I did one test and a couple others did tests with no advanced db options and the database seemed to be stable and actually increased in some cases. until when have you simulated? what was the start-number of players? This is the next test on my list, all leagues playable without advanced db 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1891 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 But the advanced db options are included in the out of the box experience? The option to load more players from certain nations or regions is included in the base game and doesn't involve any database editing. Since the issue is so hard to fix, apparently, I just wished they added an advanced setting to the game where we can set the amount of players each nation should have at all times. Like one column that just states how many players there were from a specific country when the save was created and then one column, which can be edited, that gives us the amount of players we want from that country. At every new intake the game looks at how many players there's currently in the database and then generates new players to meet exactly the critera we have asked for. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blejdek Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, Bogdy26 said: That is one perspective on it, but I don't really agree with it. And that is simply because I don't plan on reaching 2030 by the time the fix comes out. Historically speaking I haven't played more than 10-12 seasons per FM edition for the past 2 or 3 FM editions, I just don't have the time for it. So for me it really does matter if the fix is save game compatible or not. But that is for me personally. And for the second part, about the missing young players, I agree with you but not fully, because if you reach 2030 or 2040 you don't lose 10 to 20 years of young players you lose a large percentage of those players, because some players are still being generated, let's say you lose 50% percent. If in the other 50% that are being generated there is enough quality to sustain the major, let's say, 200 clubs in Europe, I would be perfectly confident playing a long term career even if there won't be a fix for this. Absolutely agree with everything that you said. Thats why I added for me personally save compatible doesnt matter And the second point, I meant to said percentage probably, because some players (even tho is low number) are still being generated So we always have to look right and left and another right Cheers mate ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveincid Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Gerade eben schrieb 1891: But the advanced db options are included in the out of the box experience? The option to load more players from certain nations or regions is included in the base game and doesn't involve any database editing. Since the issue is so hard to fix, apparently, I just wished they added an advanced setting to the game where we can set the amount of players each nation should have at all times. Like one column that just states how many players there were from a specific country when the save was created and then one column, which can be edited, that gives us the amount of players we want from that country. At every new intake the game looks at how many players there's currently in the database and then generates new players to meet exactly the critera we have asked for. you can check this value ingame with 4 clicks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1891 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Daveincid said: you can check this value ingame with 4 clicks Yeah, we can check it right now. What I want is for us to tell the game exactly how many there should be and then the game just generates up until that number every year. As a work-around since it's apparently so hard to fix. SI have already claimed twice now that they've fixed this, but both times they have evidently failed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveincid Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Gerade eben schrieb 1891: Yeah, we can check it right now. What I want is for us to tell the game exactly how many there should be and then the game just generates up until that number every year. As a work-around since it's apparently so hard to fix. SI have already claimed twice now that they've fixed this, but both times they have evidently failed. there should be close to the same amount like at the start? it's not a fix value for every team, its a "range". But I think if you compare a whole league or players from a specific nation, it is pretty accurate. But yeah, agree, I haven't seen that much of an improvement too, so I was really confused after the update Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1891 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 The whole issue is that the game generates too few players for most countries to uphold the amount of players from those countries and the game in general. In the meantime, until they fix it, if they're able to fix it in FM21, we should be able to set a fixed number and the game then just generates players matching that exact number every year. Because, like I said, they've claimed to have fixed it twice already. So it's obviously something very complex that is wrong with the algorithm that generate new players. So just let us by-pass that algorithm until it's fixed. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double0Seven Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 34 minutes ago, 1891 said: Because, like I said, they've claimed to have fixed it twice already. They have not. They said they improved it, not fixed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 As a software developer I can ensure you that this is one of the worst issues to fix. There are a lot of moving parts, you adjust something on one aspect, you influence another god knows how many other aspects of the game. And after every little adjustment you'll have to test again so many scenarios to see what the outcome is. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if we would only get a potential fix for this somewhere in March, when I believe the next big update usually comes out. Of course, SI has the man power and resources to speed up the process, but it is Christmas almost, and after a very different year with a lot challenges for all of us, we all deserve to take some time off and enjoy some quality time with our loved ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonbra Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 So guys is the game playable? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
priority76 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Leonbra said: So guys is the game playable? Definitely not. If you click to start a game your computer will blow up. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blejdek Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Leonbra said: So guys is the game playable? If you play without added databases I THINK the game is totally playable. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddieos Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Leonbra said: So guys is the game playable? You can still do a 10-year save until the effects of newgen bug become gamebreaking. In that period you'll have a great time - the new ME is awesome with the latest patch. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkis Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Leonbra said: So guys is the game playable? If you're not bothered by random stuff like a player not getting suspended for a red card, then probably it is. However I'd wait for a couple days after this patch before the next wave of bug reports comes in. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddieos Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 minute ago, tkis said: If you're not bothered by random stuff like a player not getting suspended for a red card, then probably it is. However I'd wait for a couple days after this patch before the next wave of bug reports comes in. you a ref by any chance @tkis? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkis Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, freddieos said: you a ref by any chance @tkis? no Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratio1618 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Anyone find it funny hearing all the **** with Cyberpunk while we are dealing with this **** in FM? There are some parrelels but holy **** we are still pretty lucky. Thats still not an excuse to slack off SI, i know you are reading. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TokyoWanderer Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 hace 8 minutos, ratio1618 dijo: Thats still not an excuse to slack off SI, i know you are reading. The nerve... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkis Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 2 hours ago, priority76 said: Definitely not. If you click to start a game your computer will blow up. BTW this is the kind of fanboy attitude that's actually more toxic than people criticising / demanding fixes from SI. Is it really that terrible that people want this game to simply run without game-breaking bugs? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
priority76 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 31 minutes ago, tkis said: BTW this is the kind of fanboy attitude that's actually more toxic than people criticising / demanding fixes from SI. Is it really that terrible that people want this game to simply run without game-breaking bugs? We all want it to be fixed, a quick flick through this thread will tell you it's perfectly 'playable'. Being a whiny, demanding, criticising twit will help no one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
priority76 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Did this forum automatically change twt with an a to twit, that's really annoying! I'm no longer a fanboy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCP1910 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Let me test: twit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCP1910 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Oh it does, nice Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Daveincid Posted December 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 20, 2020 @Andrew James Quick update if the problem affect's a save where all leagues are playable and with advanced db: Top League-players/players with nationality: 17.08.20 (242k players) England: 1401/7927 Spain: 850/9216 Switzerland: 414/2503 China: 1221/4153 Iran: League NA/707 USA: 733/4434 09.08.24 (218k players) England: 1277/6926 Spain: 838/8630 Switzerland: 402/2427 China: 674/3072 Iran: League NA/554 USA: 730/4499 Conclusion: First of all: it's definetly playable for users without a personality like "perfectionist", "very ambitous" or well...."temperamental" The problem affects all possible game setups. The least effected is playable, but it still is affected. Some leagues more (China) than others (USA). The overall amount of players in a Nation is decreasing in all Nations except USA (Due it's special recruiting-system I guess). Unloaded Leagues (Iran) will loose a high amount of players over time. Due my experience with other tests so far, the number might continue decreasing, but I won't say this for 100% because I won't test this anymore, due it takes so much time. I really don't want to take the fun away for people, the game itself is awesome! If this fix is gone, I won't feel fresh air on my skin for a long time I now will run my first test with all leagues loaded and without the advanced db, to see, if at least this setup keeps stable (I don't think so but who knows) Cheers Daveincid 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 A couple of earlier posts have been hidden- lets just keep the discussion civil please 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
priority76 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Daveincid said: @Andrew James Quick update if the problem affect's a save where all leagues are playable and with advanced db: What were the advance db selections in this test? Edited December 20, 2020 by priority76 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveincid Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 vor 8 Minuten schrieb priority76: What were the advance db selections in this test? all ticked on for all continents except "players with nationality" and "active players" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattric_b Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Daveincid said: @Andrew James Quick update if the problem affect's a save where all leagues are playable and with advanced db: Top League-players/players with nationality: 17.08.20 (242k players) England: 1401/7927 Spain: 850/9216 Switzerland: 414/2503 China: 1221/4153 Iran: League NA/707 USA: 733/4434 09.08.24 (218k players) England: 1277/6926 Spain: 838/8630 Switzerland: 402/2427 China: 674/3072 Iran: League NA/554 USA: 730/4499 Conclusion: First of all: it's definetly playable for users without a personality like "perfectionist", "very ambitous" or well...."temperamental" The problem affects all possible game setups. The least effected is playable, but it still is affected. Some leagues more (China) than others (USA). The overall amount of players in a Nation is decreasing in all Nations except USA (Due it's special recruiting-system I guess). Unloaded Leagues (Iran) will loose a high amount of players over time. Due my experience with other tests so far, the number might continue decreasing, but I won't say this for 100% because I won't test this anymore, due it takes so much time. I really don't want to take the fun away for people, the game itself is awesome! If this fix is gone, I won't feel fresh air on my skin for a long time I now will run my first test with all leagues loaded and without the advanced db, to see, if at least this setup keeps stable (I don't think so but who knows) Cheers Daveincid Damn, it’s a shame because I truly believe this is the best fm ever made but since I play long term saves this “bug” is a major issue for me. I haven’t played since I discovered this was happening and I’m honestly not in any rush to play again I just pray SI can figure out a proper fix for this issue within the next few months. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveincid Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 vor 17 Stunden schrieb Daveincid: @Andrew James Quick update if the problem affect's a save where all leagues are playable and with advanced db: Top League-players/players with nationality: 17.08.20 (242k players) England: 1401/7927 Spain: 850/9216 Switzerland: 414/2503 China: 1221/4153 Iran: League NA/707 USA: 733/4434 09.08.24 (218k players) England: 1277/6926 Spain: 838/8630 Switzerland: 402/2427 China: 674/3072 Iran: League NA/554 USA: 730/4499 Conclusion: First of all: it's definetly playable for users without a personality like "perfectionist", "very ambitous" or well...."temperamental" The problem affects all possible game setups. The least effected is playable, but it still is affected. Some leagues more (China) than others (USA). The overall amount of players in a Nation is decreasing in all Nations except USA (Due it's special recruiting-system I guess). Unloaded Leagues (Iran) will loose a high amount of players over time. Due my experience with other tests so far, the number might continue decreasing, but I won't say this for 100% because I won't test this anymore, due it takes so much time. I really don't want to take the fun away for people, the game itself is awesome! If this fix is gone, I won't feel fresh air on my skin for a long time I now will run my first test with all leagues loaded and without the advanced db, to see, if at least this setup keeps stable (I don't think so but who knows) Cheers Daveincid vor 17 Stunden schrieb Daveincid: I now will run my first test with all leagues loaded and without the advanced db, to see, if at least this setup keeps stable (I don't think so but who knows) As promised I have done the same test again without the advanced db. I haven't simulated to the same date as the previous test yet, so it's just a interim conclusion. Top League-players/players with nationality: 17.08.20 (204k players) England: 1401/7860 Spain: 851/8861 Switzerland: 415/2506 China: 1222/4132 Iran: League NA/306 USA: 732/4401 12.07.23 (195k players) England: 1363/7191 Spain: 838/8828 Switzerland: 393/2549 China: 717/3147 Iran: League NA/212 USA: 740/4452 Interim Conclusion: Due newgens decreasing in total from year to year, I still think the numbers will continue falling. I will keep running the test until 09.08.24, to compare it with the advanced db-setup-test I made before. After that I am planning to let the save run as far as my motivation goes. I still have a small hope, that numbers might get stable, but really a small hope. Cheers Daveincid 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blejdek Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 21 minutes ago, Daveincid said: As promised I have done the same test again without the advanced db. I haven't simulated to the same date as the previous test yet, so it's just a interim conclusion. Top League-players/players with nationality: 17.08.20 (204k players) England: 1401/7860 Spain: 851/8861 Switzerland: 415/2506 China: 1222/4132 Iran: League NA/306 USA: 732/4401 12.07.23 (195k players) England: 1363/7191 Spain: 838/8828 Switzerland: 393/2549 China: 717/3147 Iran: League NA/212 USA: 740/4452 Interim Conclusion: Due newgens decreasing in total from year to year, I still think the numbers will continue falling. I will keep running the test until 09.08.24, to compare it with the advanced db-setup-test I made before. After that I am planning to let the save run as far as my motivation goes. I still have a small hope, that numbers might get stable, but really a small hope. Cheers Daveincid First I just want to thank you, for all the tests you have already done and will do in future _o_ Seeing the test without advanced db is promising at least i think. Only 9k difference in 3 years, doesnt seems so bad imo. I am very interested what will year 2024 bring. While advanced cb saw a fall of 24k, I dont think another year without adv, db. will come to 24k less newgens. So i am hopefull. PS: Waiting patiently for results Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveincid Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 vor 3 Minuten schrieb blejdek: First I just want to thank you, for all the tests you have already done and will do in future _o_ Seeing the test without advanced db is promising at least i think. Only 9k difference in 3 years, doesnt seems so bad imo. I am very interested what will year 2024 bring. While advanced cb saw a fall of 24k, I dont think another year without adv, db. will come to 24k less newgens. So i am hopefull. PS: Waiting patiently for results You are welcome! There is indeed a bit of an improvement. But in relation with the smaller db-size compared to a close date in the test before: arround august 2023: 8% loss in total vs 5% in this test. So yeah, it's better so far, or less worse, depending on the view. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double0Seven Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 19 hours ago, Daveincid said: I now will run my first test with all leagues loaded and without the advanced db, to see, if at least this setup keeps stable (I don't think so but who knows) I think Andrew said a save with only playable leagues without advanced DB should stay stable for a very long time. Well so very long time means not even 3 years? Its a bit annoying seeing the problem even with playable leagues and no extra options. Guess ill be back in march after all the patches... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveincid Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Gerade eben schrieb Double0Seven: I think Andrew said a save with only playable leagues without advanced DB should stay stable for a very long time. Well so very long time means not even 3 years? Its a bit annoying seeing the problem even with playable leagues and no extra options. Guess ill be back in march after all the patches... I saw Titanic yesterday: "She will hold over water with 4 compartments full of water, but not 5." Said by Mr. Andrews I would say FM hit the iceberg, 1 compartment is floated so far. So the game/Titanic is still stable at this moment 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpole Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 2020 - 395k players 2040 - 250k players the database has shrunk to almost 60% of original numbers. Not good. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveincid Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 vor 3 Minuten schrieb Bigpole: 2020 - 395k players 2040 - 250k players the database has shrunk to almost 60% of original numbers. Not good. not good at all....but this was with 1 league playable and the others view-only right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpole Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 59 minutes ago, Daveincid said: not good at all....but this was with 1 league playable and the others view-only right? Only english league loaded with full database with all players. In fm20 I had 330k players in 2045 (starting from 375k original number). When I'll be in 2045 I'll do comparison what leagues/countries have what values in terms of players and u18 teams if someone is interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveincid Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 vor 5 Minuten schrieb Bigpole: Only english league loaded with full database with all players. In fm20 I had 330k players in 2045 (starting from 375k original number). When I'll be in 2045 I'll do comparison what leagues/countries have what values in terms of players and u18 teams if someone is interested. this would be great. I will filter my test with continents too. So it's visible where the loss really happends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruh Roh Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 (edited) I have a save game into 2027 with my 2003-04 database (cheap plug), which I guess is pretty close to a complete upheaval of players. Everyone is either deleted or their age is pushed up 17 years. My player count in the editor is 27k, it loads everyone in (unless i set someone's rep too low), then it tacks on another 7k-ish unemployed "day one regens." Player count in 2027 is up to 57k, which is a lot of growth but a lot of the clubs in my DB start out sparsely populated compared to the real database (I try to keep the lowest at 20ish, so the AI doesn't go all kaplooey, but with some small clubs it's hard to find 20 people to put in) and it's 39 active leagues, but there's not a ton of players outside the 39. I would bet most of the growth comes in the first year or two. By 2027, I think intake numbers are about in line with what the real game comes up with. 2-3 players per club in England, but the first year intakes were huge. 2-3 players per club in Brazil and it was always pretty bad. Big clubs in Spain and Portugal are still putting up good numbers. The Eastern European non-playables (Czech, Hungary etc) actually look pretty good, but there are barely any players coming from African clubs besides playable Egypt. Game started after the last patch released, with large database + national reputation players from all continents. Gonna put the save here in case people want to see how the system works with a really weird setup. https://drive.google.com/file/d/173MJzBKt_ZpO_MSyjLWS-tyBERiWxefE/ Edited December 21, 2020 by Ruh Roh 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blejdek Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 5 hours ago, Daveincid said: You are welcome! There is indeed a bit of an improvement. But in relation with the smaller db-size compared to a close date in the test before: arround august 2023: 8% loss in total vs 5% in this test. So yeah, it's better so far, or less worse, depending on the view. Did you already made it to 2024 ? Really interested to see what was the drop like in comparison to advanced db where drop was huge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveincid Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 vor 10 Minuten schrieb blejdek: Did you already made it to 2024 ? Really interested to see what was the drop like in comparison to advanced db where drop was huge. tomorrow morning! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveincid Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 vor 17 Stunden schrieb Daveincid: As promised I have done the same test again without the advanced db. I haven't simulated to the same date as the previous test yet, so it's just a interim conclusion. Top League-players/players with nationality: 17.08.20 (204k players) England: 1401/7860 Spain: 851/8861 Switzerland: 415/2506 China: 1222/4132 Iran: League NA/306 USA: 732/4401 12.07.23 (195k players) England: 1363/7191 Spain: 838/8828 Switzerland: 393/2549 China: 717/3147 Iran: League NA/212 USA: 740/4452 Interim Conclusion: Due newgens decreasing in total from year to year, I still think the numbers will continue falling. I will keep running the test until 09.08.24, to compare it with the advanced db-setup-test I made before. After that I am planning to let the save run as far as my motivation goes. I still have a small hope, that numbers might get stable, but really a small hope. Cheers Daveincid vor 17 Stunden schrieb Daveincid: I will keep running the test until 09.08.24 I simulated the test until 09.08.24 without the advanced db: 17.08.24 (191k players) England: 1250/6828 Spain: 847/8661 Switzerland: 390/2425 China: 654/3031 Iran: League NA/185 USA: 735/4494 Which continents are loosing the most players? 17.08.20 (204k) Africa: 4041 Asia: 19458 Europe: 137070 North America: 10092 Oceania: 3265 South America: 30238 17.08.24 (191k) Africa: 3684 (-9%) Asia: 16302 (-17%) Europe: 133838 (-3%) North America: 9904 (-2%) Oceania: 3210 (-2%) South America: 24190 (-21%) Conclusion: The problem really seems to be heavily in South America and Asia, but also Africa had quite a big loss. I am especially worried about Nations where IRL they have a good league but isn't in the default game. Iran is one example, but it affects all leagues. My experience was, that the "big hit" will be arround season 26/27. No matter what db you choose, there is a constantly loss of players. So for longterm-saves (only my personal opinion) the game isn't playable without closing both eyes at it's current state. Cheers Daveincid 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilsjay27 Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 Anyone else having the issue of when adding in playable leagues to a current save it doesnt actually add the league in when it gets to the date it says. Thought i would try to get round this regen issue a little bit by adding in a load of playable leagues but nothing actually happens, if i try and add that league again after that date it just shows as being added again in another years time. Also i started with a couple of view only leagues, i selected to change them to playable and it gives me a date in the future when it will change to playable. But when i come off the game and load my save back up next time i play it, its gone back to view only and doesnt show it as playable in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveincid Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) vor 39 Minuten schrieb Daveincid: I simulated the test until 09.08.24 without the advanced db: 17.08.24 (191k players) England: 1250/6828 Spain: 847/8661 Switzerland: 390/2425 China: 654/3031 Iran: League NA/185 USA: 735/4494 Which continents are loosing the most players? 17.08.20 (204k) Africa: 4041 Asia: 19458 Europe: 137070 North America: 10092 Oceania: 3265 South America: 30238 17.08.24 (191k) Africa: 3684 (-9%) Asia: 16302 (-17%) Europe: 133838 (-3%) North America: 9904 (-2%) Oceania: 3210 (-2%) South America: 24190 (-21%) Conclusion: The problem really seems to be heavily in South America and Asia, but also Africa had quite a big loss. I am especially worried about Nations where IRL they have a good league but isn't in the default game. Iran is one example, but it affects all leagues. My experience was, that the "big hit" will be arround season 26/27. No matter what db you choose, there is a constantly loss of players. So for longterm-saves (only my personal opinion) the game isn't playable without closing both eyes at it's current state. Cheers Daveincid How is the loss with my first test with the advanced db used? Which continents are loosing the most players? 17.08.20 (242k) Africa: 15106 Asia: 30008 Europe: 144177 North America: 14721 Oceania: 3609 South America: 32769 17.08.24 (218k) Africa: 11903 (-22%) Asia: 25119 (-17%) Europe: 138666 (-4%) North America: 13386 (-10%) Oceania: 3417 (-6%) South America: 25818 (-22%) Conclusion: To my understanding the loss is heavier in continents, as soon as there are less leagues playable (which sounds logical to me). But it also shows, that it is worth to load player via the advanced db in general. You will still get a more realistic setup (Other topic I know), instead of only loading a small/middle/big db. Edited December 22, 2020 by Daveincid 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
priority76 Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 49 minutes ago, Daveincid said: To my understanding the loss is heavier in continents, as soon as there are less leagues playable (which sounds logical to me). But it also shows, that it is worth to load player via the advanced db in general. You will still get a more realistic setup (Other topic I know), instead of only loading a small/middle/big db. This test was with all leagues playable wasn't it? If I remember correctly the large South American depletion was due to them starting with extremely bloated youth squads, so I would imagine as time went on that would level off a bit. It would be interesting to see a test with leagues loaded which are usually unplayable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveincid Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) vor 1 Stunde schrieb priority76: This test was with all leagues playable wasn't it? If I remember correctly the large South American depletion was due to them starting with extremely bloated youth squads, so I would imagine as time went on that would level off a bit. Yes, all playable. Yes, the same as the bloated U23 teams in english premier league. But China was playable too at the start, and they lost massively too. So the problem definetly affects playable leagues too. vor 1 Stunde schrieb priority76: It would be interesting to see a test with leagues loaded which are usually unplayable. Yup, currently creating the setup. thanks to @Timo61 for the megapack. It contains 578 leagues from 212 nations. Advanced db ticked on all except "based in Nation" and "players with nationality". I also added players to playable teams, otherwise there wouldn't be real players in Bhutan's 3rd division, and that would be a massive loss of realism you know I don't know about the total player-count yet, it is still loading my setup I'm wondering if I hit 1 million players Edit:692k players Edited December 22, 2020 by Daveincid Edit: 692k players 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blejdek Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Daveincid said: I simulated the test until 09.08.24 without the advanced db: 17.08.24 (191k players) England: 1250/6828 Spain: 847/8661 Switzerland: 390/2425 China: 654/3031 Iran: League NA/185 USA: 735/4494 Which continents are loosing the most players? 17.08.20 (204k) Africa: 4041 Asia: 19458 Europe: 137070 North America: 10092 Oceania: 3265 South America: 30238 17.08.24 (191k) Africa: 3684 (-9%) Asia: 16302 (-17%) Europe: 133838 (-3%) North America: 9904 (-2%) Oceania: 3210 (-2%) South America: 24190 (-21%) Conclusion: The problem really seems to be heavily in South America and Asia, but also Africa had quite a big loss. I am especially worried about Nations where IRL they have a good league but isn't in the default game. Iran is one example, but it affects all leagues. My experience was, that the "big hit" will be arround season 26/27. No matter what db you choose, there is a constantly loss of players. So for longterm-saves (only my personal opinion) the game isn't playable without closing both eyes at it's current state. Cheers Daveincid So if I get it right: The advanced setup loaded lost 24k players in 4 years, and the normal database without advanced db lost 13k players in the 4 years? So a normal db loaded lost almost half less players, which is still A LOT, but comparing it to advanced db, its actually A LOT better. So I guess its up for pessimists and optimits if they are gonna play a long save haha. Will you see a glass half full or half empty Anyway, the newgen system is broken hard, no doubt in that. BUT if u play long save a little slower (without advanced db, only load leagues added in fm already), really invest some time in it, where the years goes a little bit slower than clicking continue all the time the game is pretty much very playable. Even tho loss of youngsters is happening, just imagine yourself that football lost a little of popularity and less kids are training it hehe. Then maybe you wont even notice the loss in total player count At least thats what I am gonna do in my long term save Cheers all 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
priority76 Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Daveincid said: there wouldn't be real players in Bhutan's 3rd division, and that would be a massive loss of realism you know Absolutely. We couldn't have that. Let us know how long it takes you to sim a season with that setup, 692k players is ridiculous. 19 minutes ago, blejdek said: the game is pretty much very playable. I'm still a bit sceptical about how much this would actually effect the game. Having AI youth teams with some greyed players doesn't seem like a massive issue to me and if I hadn't stumbled across this thread I really doubt I would ever know this problem exists. Mind you I rarely get beyond five years in a save. Maybe I'm missing something fundamental about this problem. Although now that I know about it I really hope it gets sorted ASAP. I might try and find one of those saves where someone has gone 500 years into the future and see what things are looking like. The number of players disappearing has to level out at some point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvg Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Daveincid said: How is the loss with my first test with the advanced db used? Which continents are loosing the most players? 17.08.20 (242k) Africa: 15106 Asia: 30008 Europe: 144177 North America: 14721 Oceania: 3609 South America: 32769 17.08.24 (218k) Africa: 11903 (-22%) Asia: 25119 (-17%) Europe: 138666 (-4%) North America: 13386 (-10%) Oceania: 3417 (-6%) South America: 25818 (-22%) Conclusion: To my understanding the loss is heavier in continents, as soon as there are less leagues playable (which sounds logical to me). But it also shows, that it is worth to load player via the advanced db in general. You will still get a more realistic setup (Other topic I know), instead of only loading a small/middle/big db. Do you know if the European nations lost players were spread evenly across or affected nations disproportionately? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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