Dealing with an increase in reputation - Breaking teams down and taking the next step?

[heisenburglar]

Background

I'm currently in the 5th season as Birmingham City with a great set of finishes so far - 2nd (promotion), 10th (Premier League), 6th, 4th, 5th. I have spent a lot of money and never been less inspiring in matches.

As a result of this rise to the upper premier league table, all teams outside the top 6 have started playing defensively against me and led to me now languishing midtable as a result of dropping far too many points. Here is an example against a typical midtable opponent

I can dominate possession (and rack up an obscene amount of corners) but struggle to create. Very few highlights and usually punished as a result of upping the Mentality late on.

The Tactic

It might help if I explain my rationale starting with the duties

- Striker CF(S) - a well rounded striker with good pace, finishing and off the ball, his job is to score but also pull centre backs out of position to allow the midfielders space in the box

-RW - Winger (A) - a very physical player with poor finishing but good crossing

LW- IW (s) - Inverted winger to allow space for my DL, well rounded stats

AP (s) - Highly technical player with low natural fitness, stamina and pace. Support duty to allow interchange with the...

BBM - I want him supporting the striker and getting in the box to give the AP an option. He has the only player instruction, Get Further Forward

DLP-D - This player will sit in and recycle the ball while also covering the DL

DL - One of my best players, a real attacking threat but poor defensively

Defenders should be fairly self explanatory

Now for the team instructions

The in possession tactics are there to attempt to deal with defensive opponents. I don't necessarily want the fast tempo of a positive style, mainly the mentality is to encourage some more risk in our attacking play. I have little aerial threat in the final third so it makes sense to play out of defence and GK distribute short. Out of possession tactics are inherited by the previous Gegenpress from a much earlier season

The Problem

How can I turn this team of youngsters from passive possession holders to a menacing attacking threat? Has the increased reputation of my club outpaced my ability to bring in better players? Or is there something fundamentally wrong with the tactic?

Suggestions welcome!

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by heisenburglar

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, heisenburglar said:

Or is there something fundamentally wrong with the tactic?

Suggestions welcome

I can only share my personal views, which you can accept or ignore.

Let's start with the defensive side:

- lower-than-optimal level of compactness (the distance between D-line and LOE), especially for a top-heavy formation without a DM

- I cannot see other out-of-possession TIs in that screenshot, but given that the tactical style says "custom gegenpress", I suppose your pressing urgency is extremely urgent. If so, then it means even more defensive vulnerability (in the context of the aforementioned poor compactness)

- the right flank has both wide roles attack-minded coupled with a roaming midfield runner (as opposed to a holding or covering CM role)

- this vulnerability on the right flank is then compounded by the Overlap right TI (since the instruction increases the fullback's individual mentality)

- even the left flank is potentially too exposed due to the combination of the overlap left and the most attack-minded (plus roaming) fullback role (CWB on attack duty), despite the presence of a holding CM role in the form of the DLP (my suggestion would be to change the CWB into either FB on attack duty or WB on support)

2 hours ago, heisenburglar said:

How can I turn this team of youngsters from passive possession holders to a menacing attacking threat?

There are a couple of most obvious ways:

- don't use 2 playmakers one immediately behind the other

OR

- use them both, but change the AP's duty into attack (which would also help to avoid congestion, given the BBM behind him)

- change the striker's duty into attack, both for the sake of more effective central penetration and to avoid space congestion (you can also consider giving him a simpler role, such as PF on attack duty)

OR

- don't use play out of defence and lower tempo at the same time (in relation to your issue with passive possession)

Hopefully these observations will give you some food for thought  

[jc577]

I agree with the above  who's really attacking the box? Both the AP and CF-S are looking to drop, the W-A is an underrated goal-threat but will primarily look for crosses, and the IW will drift laterally. Personally i'd look at having the striker on an attack duty, maybe DLF/PF-A so he occupies the centre-backs. When playing against defensive teams it's hard to draw the centre-backs out as they're heavily protected by a DM (maybe 2) so best to keep them engaged. 

Other suggestions:

- Drop the LOE from much higher to higher (possibly standard) to give your attackers more room.

- Reduce pressing intensity.

Hope this helps!

[heisenburglar]

Thanks for the replies, I have made some changes and they've given me some improvements for sure. In particular, this team now plays much better against strong opposition where that was traditionally where I got trounced (draws at Stamford Bridge and Old Trafford followed by a win at the San Siro particular highlights since switching).

I've adopted a lot of your suggestions, although I've kept the DL on WB-A as I really like the positions he takes up in possession.

I think this tactic is now much simpler which is always a good thing so thanks for your suggestions.

One thing I'm still experimenting with is the CM-A, the game identifies a problem there with the space he leaves behind him. What I really want from him is to provide a goal threat by taking up the space provided by the winger, while he also has license to get into the box when the ball goes wide. I wasn't seeing that from the BBM-S even with get further forward. Is the CM-A too risky or would a MEZ-S be an idea for this position?

A final point, the WBL and AMR take up great crossing positions but my striker and AML aren't very good in the air, can a low crosses instruction work without a counter attacking style? It seems a poor option with a crowded box...perhaps tinker with the cross instructions on the players so they pull it back towards the penalty spot? I understand I probably need to experiment and see what happens but be interested to hear some views on how to get the most from my wing play.

[Experienced Defender]

41 minutes ago, heisenburglar said:

I've adopted a lot of your suggestions

A CM on attack duty is a tactical no-no in a system such as 4231, so that definitely cannot be based on my suggestion in any way shape or form 

But then again, if you are pleased with how your tactic works, stick to it and don't change anything 

[jc577]

1 hour ago, heisenburglar said:

Is the CM-A too risky or would a MEZ-S be an idea for this position?

In a nutshell, yes  Even a MEZ-S is too risky for a 4231; the two CM's in this formation are there to break up play, cover space and recycle the ball... you have 4 attackers high up the pitch, is there a need for another? It will likely to reduce space further in the final third. If you want to use a CM-A (one of my favourite roles both IRL and in the game) I would look at switching formation to a 433/4141. 

[heisenburglar]

22 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

A CM on attack duty is a tactical no-no in a system such as 4231, so that definitely cannot be based on my suggestion in any way shape or form 

Ha I'll take the blame for that one myself. 

 

14 minutes ago, jc577 said:

In a nutshell, yes  Even a MEZ-S is too risky for a 4231; the two CM's in this formation are there to break up play, cover space and recycle the ball... you have 4 attackers high up the pitch, is there a need for another? It will likely to reduce space further in the final third. If you want to use a CM-A (one of my favourite roles both IRL and in the game) I would look at switching formation to a 433/4141. 

What you have both said makes sense with what I see in the match engine, sometimes the CM-D is all on his own facing all players ahead of him besides my 2 CBs and any loss of possession gives up a clear chance so I think I I'll look at something like a CM-S and experiment with a 433 dropping the AP to the MC strata alongside a CM A in front of a DM-D.

 

Thanks again for your replies I'm much happier with the tactic now!

[karanhsingh]

Honestly I have found the combination of DLP(d) and BWM(s) excellent for this shape. The BWM on a support duty and the right PPMs get forward often enough and actually ends up scoring a fair few goals. The DLP(d) as expected provides a passing outlet at most times.

[WhyMe]

If the CM-a is working for you offensively the only way you can cover the space behind him is to play a IWB-d at full back.  If your players are good enough this can work (or at least it did in FM20) but it is still risky.  Something to try might be focus play down left building up play there and then unleashing your attacking trio on the right.  Might not work but could be fun trying :-)