info provided UK Work Permit Imbalance - Brexit 2021

[AllyJoseph]

I'm loathed to post this here as I don't think it is a bug per se, I think it is a balance issue of the game, but I keep being told in other threads to report it as a bug, so here we are! Please bare with me as I try to explain...

I like the incarnation of Brexit, I believe it's working as it was intended to. The work permit system is leaving people basically unable to sign anyone other than the elite players from abroad, this is good and probably going to be the outcome of a terrible Brexit.

However, just because it's working as it was intended to, does not mean that it has not tipped the game balance waaaaay out of whack and the rest of the game doesn't need tuning to bring it back in line.

1. Scouts are suggesting multiple players that will not get a work permit, my pre-window meetings are now pointless as every single suggestion is a player who can not get a work permit. This needs to be tuned to only include those who will definitely get a work permit, otherwise, whats the point of them? Or scouts in general? This could be a bug, but I don't know for certain as the suggestions aren't "wrong" if I could get a work permit these players would be incredible, but they're just not feasible. This is making an already difficult transfer window, even harder for no real reason.

2. Club visions are almost unattainable at times. So before, if a newly promoted side or a lower prem side said "sign only u23 players" you could easily do this. Now, pretty much any u23 from abroad is impossible to sign. This leaves you with a VERY small pool of players, all of whom you also can not sign as British u23s command a premium price you can not afford. This then gives you the other option of buying u23s that are just simply not good enough and never will be, just to fufill the club vision, which would have the side effect of annoying the board with poor signings. You could argue that you can "ignore" the club vision and just do what you want, to which I'd say, well what's the point of club vision in the first place?

3. The AI is handling Brexit poorly. The big clubs are still signing young wonderkids from abroad, these kids will not get work permits as they'll just sit in the big clubs u23s for a few seasons, never play and then be impossible to sell on unless another club from abroad buys them. I'd suggest that perhaps the bigger clubs are going to be more careful with their foreign signings once a hard brexit work permit rules comes into play. Sure they get that initial work permit, but after their contract expires and they've played a few cup games and the usual development amount of games over 4 years, they're now useless as they'll never pass the permit rules.

4. Young English talent is overpriced to a ludicrous degree. We're increasingly seeing kids not allowing themselves to be held to randsom, Sancho, Bellingham, Lookman, Diangana, are all recent examples of kids with massive potential that are going to other clubs instead of sitting in their original clubs reserves. All of whom have left for modest/high transfer fees as their clubs realise they'll just leave on a free if they don't cash in. I'm still being quoted 77m for kids that are 21 and haven't kicked a ball for their parent clubs in 5 years. This is absolute madness and is very gamey. The reality of it is, these kids will sit until 23 in the clubs reserves and every season upto release they'll be priced at 100m or something ridiculous. In reality these clubs would cash in eventually no? Why would you turn down 30m at 21 if your end game is to release them at 23? This has been an issue for years but its never bothered me as much as it does in a transfer market that is now going to be essential to buy and sell young talent from big clubs. I'm not saying all kids should be cheap, obviously these prices are hands off prices, but very few kids get to 23 without kicking a ball and are still being priced at 100m+.

5. The British transfer market is a mess once you get a few years down the line. Clubs are just buying at least 1 or 2 Scottish Prem players a year and almost immediately farming them back out. I'm seeing clubs buying weird unknown, terrible League One and Two players. I had Brentford buying a Notts County player and a League One center back, both of whom were terrible. Maybe this was a bug, whatever it was it wasn't realistic. Sure, huge talents from lower down the leagues, I'd love to see it. I'd even love to see players that are doing well get a chance higher up the leagues, I think Brexit will probably see this as a knock on cause. However, random nobodies who have poor AvR and terrible attributes...it's just not what would happen, I'd suspect its an effect of the stunted Transfer Market. People are seeing 100 potential work permit successes out of 6,000, that seems extrodinarily low.

I like Brexit, if you guys are confident this is the correct outcome I'm 100% behind you, but please just balance the rest of the game to make sure it works.

[freddieos]

Great post, fully agree with all your points and share your frustrations.

[Da_bhoy]

Hi all, 

I have seen quite a few topics creeping up on a number of forums around work permits and its implementation half way through the first season, in the UK.

I am currently in the summer window of my second season, in a network game with two others. I am Oxford United and have just been promoted to the Championship alongside, one other who is Ipswich).

I believe there is an imbalance with the work permit implementation. Firstly, the point system is not clear and more importantly it is difficult to gauge where a player falls within the point system (i.e how many points he has and what is needed for his point tally to increase).

Secondly, If I conduct a player search on a world package - with the criteria Work Permit Required. My search brings up 41,962 players - of which only 334 players are likely to receive a WP. Please be aware I have attached removed players already based in the UK which equates to around 13k. I have also unticked players interested in a move to me and the number of players who will receive a WP increases to 3133 from 55,104 players.  I don't think this seems balanced?

My scouts continually recommending me players, but note they will not get a work permit.

Players that my friend has had at Ipswich on loan ( EL Bilal Toure - e.g) are now no longer able to receive a WP to player in the UK and he can now no longer sign any players of that quality to help stay in the Championship or even be promoted? 

I have also read from previous topics of the bigger sides signing players who are not eligible for a wp and just leaving them in their reserves. We are wary of continuing the file on, if this is something that is currently being address by your team. 

We also do not wish to remove Brexit from the game completely, as we enjoy the realism . But no one is sure of the impact Brexit will have on player recruitment in real life, but I do not imagine in to be this crippling.

Happy to attach any images/game files needed.

[emil_sbn]

I have encountered this too first season in Championship and all my scouts keep recommending players that I cant sign.

[Ben Kenney]

2 hours ago, Da_bhoy said:

My scouts continually recommending me players, but note they will not get a work permit.

Players that my friend has had at Ipswich on loan ( EL Bilal Toure - e.g) are now no longer able to receive a WP to player in the UK and he can now no longer sign any players of that quality to help stay in the Championship or even be promoted? 

I have also read from previous topics of the bigger sides signing players who are not eligible for a wp and just leaving them in their reserves. We are wary of continuing the file on, if this is something that is currently being address by your team. 

We also do not wish to remove Brexit from the game completely, as we enjoy the realism . But no one is sure of the impact Brexit will have on player recruitment in real life, but I do not imagine in to be this crippling.

Happy to attach any images/game files needed.

Thanks for the feedback. 

The work permit system that has been implemented requires a much stricter criteria to be met than in previous versions. With the new WP system it is no longer possible to sign lower quality foreign players as easily. They have to meet a criteria based on international appearances, standard of league played in, performance in league, matches played, progress in continental competition etc. We released a small update earlier to resolve an issue where players out on loan weren't having their points calculated correctly. 

If you have players who you think should be getting a work permit who aren't then I'm happy to have a look at your save game if uploaded to our cloud service and give the names of some of the players.  

In regards to Scouts returning too many results of players who are unlikely to get WP's this is an issue we are aware of and we are looking to balance this in favour of players who will get a WP. 

In regards to the players not getting a WP and being kept in the reserves this isn't something ive picked up on my tests here. I've seen young players who qualify for foreign status signed for the U23's and loaned out before being sold on. But not seen players who are signed with no WP and get no game time. Would be very interested in taking a look at a save game that has this issue though. 

 

[Da_bhoy]

Thanks for the response Ben.

So just to be clear- The result of 334 players being eligible in my player search from a database of 41k is correct? Is there a chance my scouts are ruling out a number of players that would be accepted?

As well as this, is there anyway of knowing the points tallying system? I.e which countries/leagues score higher than others? How many points a player currently has? etc

Dom

 

[Da_bhoy]

Hi @Ben Kenney

Just wanted to follow up on the above, prior to continuing my the file this evening?

Thanks,

D

[Ben Kenney]

The reduction in players eligible for a WP is supposed to decrease post Brexit and that looks like what has happened in your save game. 

If you feel that there are players who should qualify for a WP but are not then upload your save game, let us know the name of the players in question and we can take a look for you. 

At the moment there isn't anything in game informing the user of the amount of WP points a player has got. 

Cheers,

Ben  

[Da_bhoy]

Hi @Ben Kenney

Is there some sort of key or table you can share, that tells us what leagues are scored higher/the difference a number of appearances make in that particular league etc?

You mentioned there isn't anything in the game that tells us the points, but is this something being looked at/developed?

Will save a lot of wasted time making bids/negotiating for players that just won't get the permit.

Thanks

D

[AllyJoseph]

On 27/11/2020 at 15:03, Ben Kenney said:

The reduction in players eligible for a WP is supposed to decrease post Brexit and that looks like what has happened in your save game. 

If you feel that there are players who should qualify for a WP but are not then upload your save game, let us know the name of the players in question and we can take a look for you. 

At the moment there isn't anything in game informing the user of the amount of WP points a player has got. 

Cheers,

Ben  

Hi Ben,

I posted a similar post here 

But never got a response. Are we to assume our current version of Brexit is the one we are getting moving forward, as I'd implore the team to balance it just a little. I'm not bothered about no foreigners but the entire market seems to have taken a huge hit because of it and some things like club visions, prices of players and wonderkids haven't been balanced around it.

[Ben Kenney]

On 23/11/2020 at 11:54, AllyJoseph said:

I'm loathed to post this here as I don't think it is a bug per se, I think it is a balance issue of the game, but I keep being told in other threads to report it as a bug, so here we are! Please bare with me as I try to explain...

I like the incarnation of Brexit, I believe it's working as it was intended to. The work permit system is leaving people basically unable to sign anyone other than the elite players from abroad, this is good and probably going to be the outcome of a terrible Brexit.

However, just because it's working as it was intended to, does not mean that it has not tipped the game balance waaaaay out of whack and the rest of the game doesn't need tuning to bring it back in line.

1. Scouts are suggesting multiple players that will not get a work permit, my pre-window meetings are now pointless as every single suggestion is a player who can not get a work permit. This needs to be tuned to only include those who will definitely get a work permit, otherwise, whats the point of them? Or scouts in general? This could be a bug, but I don't know for certain as the suggestions aren't "wrong" if I could get a work permit these players would be incredible, but they're just not feasible. This is making an already difficult transfer window, even harder for no real reason.

2. Club visions are almost unattainable at times. So before, if a newly promoted side or a lower prem side said "sign only u23 players" you could easily do this. Now, pretty much any u23 from abroad is impossible to sign. This leaves you with a VERY small pool of players, all of whom you also can not sign as British u23s command a premium price you can not afford. This then gives you the other option of buying u23s that are just simply not good enough and never will be, just to fufill the club vision, which would have the side effect of annoying the board with poor signings. You could argue that you can "ignore" the club vision and just do what you want, to which I'd say, well what's the point of club vision in the first place?

3. The AI is handling Brexit poorly. The big clubs are still signing young wonderkids from abroad, these kids will not get work permits as they'll just sit in the big clubs u23s for a few seasons, never play and then be impossible to sell on unless another club from abroad buys them. I'd suggest that perhaps the bigger clubs are going to be more careful with their foreign signings once a hard brexit work permit rules comes into play. Sure they get that initial work permit, but after their contract expires and they've played a few cup games and the usual development amount of games over 4 years, they're now useless as they'll never pass the permit rules.

4. Young English talent is overpriced to a ludicrous degree. We're increasingly seeing kids not allowing themselves to be held to randsom, Sancho, Bellingham, Lookman, Diangana, are all recent examples of kids with massive potential that are going to other clubs instead of sitting in their original clubs reserves. All of whom have left for modest/high transfer fees as their clubs realise they'll just leave on a free if they don't cash in. I'm still being quoted 77m for kids that are 21 and haven't kicked a ball for their parent clubs in 5 years. This is absolute madness and is very gamey. The reality of it is, these kids will sit until 23 in the clubs reserves and every season upto release they'll be priced at 100m or something ridiculous. In reality these clubs would cash in eventually no? Why would you turn down 30m at 21 if your end game is to release them at 23? This has been an issue for years but its never bothered me as much as it does in a transfer market that is now going to be essential to buy and sell young talent from big clubs. I'm not saying all kids should be cheap, obviously these prices are hands off prices, but very few kids get to 23 without kicking a ball and are still being priced at 100m+.

5. The British transfer market is a mess once you get a few years down the line. Clubs are just buying at least 1 or 2 Scottish Prem players a year and almost immediately farming them back out. I'm seeing clubs buying weird unknown, terrible League One and Two players. I had Brentford buying a Notts County player and a League One center back, both of whom were terrible. Maybe this was a bug, whatever it was it wasn't realistic. Sure, huge talents from lower down the leagues, I'd love to see it. I'd even love to see players that are doing well get a chance higher up the leagues, I think Brexit will probably see this as a knock on cause. However, random nobodies who have poor AvR and terrible attributes...it's just not what would happen, I'd suspect its an effect of the stunted Transfer Market. People are seeing 100 potential work permit successes out of 6,000, that seems extrodinarily low.

I like Brexit, if you guys are confident this is the correct outcome I'm 100% behind you, but please just balance the rest of the game to make sure it works.

Thanks for the feedback

Ive merged your original post into this one so we can keep all feedback into one place. 

1) We are aware of issues where scouts are returning too many players who would not qualify for a WP. This is something the dev team are looking into at the moment. 

2 + 4) It sounds like these two could potentially be linked. The overpriced U23 players are making it tough to fulfil certain club visions. If you have examples of U23 player players who are overpriced then please upload a save game and we will be able to check this out. Would be very interested in any example of a 23 year old who hasn't played a match being valued at £100M+ as this isn't something ive seen an example of. 

3. Again would be interested in an example of this. I've not seen the AI sign too many young players who join without a WP and then are not loaned out. I've seen the AI sign some young foreign players who do go on to get 'Foreign' status and a WP. The players are then on occasion loaned out multiple times and maybe then sold on for profit. But i've not seen a big money youngster signed without a WP and then never loaned out. 

5) Always happy to take a look at examples of unrealistic signings a save game before the transfer offer would be very helpful in order for us to understand why a player has been targeted by a club. In regards to the point about users seeing  only100 players  likely to get a work permit success, then I would really need to have a look at their save and preferably have some examples of players who they feel should be getting a WP but is shown to not be getting one. I can then check the WP points they have been allocated. 

If you have any saves that shows these issues then i'm more than happy to look into these points further. 

Cheers,

Ben 

[AllyJoseph]

1 hour ago, Ben Kenney said:

Thanks for the feedback

Ive merged your original post into this one so we can keep all feedback into one place. 

1) We are aware of issues where scouts are returning too many players who would not qualify for a WP. This is something the dev team are looking into at the moment. 

2 + 4) It sounds like these two could potentially be linked. The overpriced U23 players are making it tough to fulfil certain club visions. If you have examples of U23 player players who are overpriced then please upload a save game and we will be able to check this out. Would be very interested in any example of a 23 year old who hasn't played a match being valued at £100M+ as this isn't something ive seen an example of. 

3. Again would be interested in an example of this. I've not seen the AI sign too many young players who join without a WP and then are not loaned out. I've seen the AI sign some young foreign players who do go on to get 'Foreign' status and a WP. The players are then on occasion loaned out multiple times and maybe then sold on for profit. But i've not seen a big money youngster signed without a WP and then never loaned out. 

5) Always happy to take a look at examples of unrealistic signings a save game before the transfer offer would be very helpful in order for us to understand why a player has been targeted by a club. In regards to the point about users seeing  only100 players  likely to get a work permit success, then I would really need to have a look at their save and preferably have some examples of players who they feel should be getting a WP but is shown to not be getting one. I can then check the WP points they have been allocated. 

If you have any saves that shows these issues then i'm more than happy to look into these points further. 

Cheers,

Ben 

Thanks for the response, much appreciated!

I think 100m may have been hyperbole, but I definitely was quoted 77m for a 21 year old who had never kicked a ball for Chelsea which I think was a very high price. I was also quoted I believe 50m for a CM from Chelsea too and 40m for a 23 year old from City who is also likely to never kick a ball. These prices feel gamey as its a case of "this player has good stats and PA" more than him actually having proven anything, in real life would people pay that for potential? I dunno, I'll leave it up for debate. I think Liverpool have signed 2 Argentinian 21 year olds who aren't playing on the same save and are just sat in the reserves, I don't think they paid a great deal for them, but on that same save Bergwijn didn't get a work permit(rightfully so, he barely played for Spurs) and these unknown kids did, seemed a little out of place.

I have that save, I will upload it tomorrow when I get chance to, but I'll also preface this with, this was the beta so if things have been subsequently tweeked, I have not played far enough into a "full release" save to give an accurate representation. So if its of no use, I understand.