The Realism Thread

[Junkhead]

14 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

This is something I definitely want to try this year. 

Sadly the skin last year showed attributes on the set pieces tab which I couldn't unsee 🙁

[XuluBak]

Regardless of save type, I only use search for players that are listed or on expiring contracts, so I can scout them. 

I'm divided on complete attribute masking. On one hand, I think scouting is horribly "overpowered," considering how quickly you can get a fairly accurate assessment of players across a broad range of leagues (i.e., it's too accurate, especially for apple to orange comparisons). On the other, completely masking attributes across the board seems like overkill (to the point of being unrealistic). A lot of the physical attributes can be measured objectively. Technical and mental should be quite a bit more difficult to judge accurately, consistently, but at the same time, if you're training with a squad of players for months or even years, then you should have a much better understanding of their ability, especially relatively to one another. 

 

[XuluBak]

20 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Who did you start with? I'm South African, so interested to hear! Did you choose the club or did they hire you from being unemployed?

I started unemployed. Lowest experience and no badges. Applying to just about everything. Got the Tuks FC job around the midway point in the season. 

[Mars_Blackmon]

22 minutes ago, XuluBak said:

Regardless of save type, I only use search for players that are listed or on expiring contracts, so I can scout them. 

I'm divided on complete attribute masking. On one hand, I think scouting is horribly "overpowered," considering how quickly you can get a fairly accurate assessment of players across a broad range of leagues (i.e., it's too accurate, especially for apple to orange comparisons). On the other, completely masking attributes across the board seems like overkill (to the point of being unrealistic). A lot of the physical attributes can be measured objectively. Technical and mental should be quite a bit more difficult to judge accurately, consistently, but at the same time, if you're training with a squad of players for months or even years, then you should have a much better understanding of their ability, especially relatively to one another. 

 

I feel like the amount of information we get now with data makes up for this tremendously. I find myself looking through stats and staff advice more.

[Mikal]

Probably for the last 3 months of FM20 I turned attributes off via the skin preferences in-game and made all my squad decisions based on player performance and analysis, and using the in-game stats to do my scouting that way much like they would IRL (e.g. https://community.sigames.com/topic/527268-fm20-2030-a-hidden-attributes-challenge/?do=findComment&comment=12638457). So I'd identify targets through stats I wanted and then sent my scouts to get their reports.

I'll be playing the same way again this year, I won't be masking attributes entirely this time as there's not enough in-game data to really paint a full picture, so I'm eagerly awaiting @wkdsoul's attributeless skin similar to what was done for FM20.

[Haribo1681]

My career is underway... sort of: I was offered an interview with a Danish third division club straight away, but they decided to give the job to their existing DoF instead. Back on holiday we go...

[gam945]

11 hours ago, Junkhead said:

Hi @gam945!

I think this rule is a bit of a hangover from the days where the player search was different.  It used to work differently from the scouting packages in that it was a search of every player in the world based on reputation.  IIRC it didn't show all players, only those with a high enough reputation to make the list.  It was filterable and it meant that you could basically find whatever you needed quite quickly, particularly if playing with no masked attributes.  It was pretty much the same as the staff search now.

What the scouting packages do is show you realistic players for your club depending on your purchased package, so a completely different ball game.

If I'm honest, using the scouting package is probably more realistic than not using it at all as the club is paying for it anyway.  It's probably me that is being unrealistic here!

 

I see, that makes sense, but not anymore imo. I began with FM19, so didn't know about the old system.

Very nice thread, I've already took some ideas from the different posts in here that I'll implement on my save.

[Platinum]

How is the search functionality action related to the scouting package? I'd never heard of that before, I thought you could search for anyone.

Edited November 27, 2020 by francis#17

[cocoadavid]

I don't understand why people think using the Player Search tool is unrealistic. These days football clubs, and not only football clubs, even my journalist mate have access to a database with an incredible amount of data about thousands of footballers. Stats like chances created, passes into the finald third, xG, xA, xGBuildup, number of successfull pressings, duels, tacklings, interceptions, physical parameters, stats I have never heard of, everything you can imagine. It is almost like an equivalent to the FM Player Search. Also in a podcast I listened to, the guests were a scout and an analyst, and they told that when they are looking for a new type of player the coach asks for, first they search in a database with given parameters, they make a shortlist, and only then start they watching the player in matches and videos.

Not using the player search tool might have been realistic in the 90s, but in 2020, I think it is more realistic to use it than not to use it.

[Platinum]

29 minutes ago, cocoadavid said:

I don't understand why people think using the Player Search tool is unrealistic. These days football clubs, and not only football clubs, even my journalist mate have access to a database with an incredible amount of data about thousands of footballers. Stats like chances created, passes into the finald third, xG, xA, xGBuildup, number of successfull pressings, duels, tacklings, interceptions, physical parameters, stats I have never heard of, everything you can imagine. It is almost like an equivalent to the FM Player Search. Also in a podcast I listened to, the guests were a scout and an analyst, and they told that when they are looking for a new type of player the coach asks for, first they search in a database with given parameters, they make a shortlist, and only then start they watching the player in matches and videos.

Not using the player search tool might have been realistic in the 90s, but in 2020, I think it is more realistic to use it than not to use it.

Guess it depends what level you are managing at. If youre a semi pro club then its probs not realistic to find stats that detailed for other players at that level, but if youre a bigger club then it could be realistic. Regardless I think making sure you scout the player after searching is more important

[Platinum]

5 hours ago, Junkhead said:

Hi!

There is a third party skin which masks all attributes forever. They do not even show up when scouted. I do not believe there is one finished for FM21 yet though.

Can you control how granular the masking is? 

[Junkhead]

1 hour ago, francis#17 said:

How is the search functionality action related to the scouting package? I'd never heard of that before, I thought you could search for anyone.

Apologies for the lack of clarity.

You can indeed search for anyone by name. That has always been the case. That has always been a big no no.

Back in the day there was a player search option which showed you a fair proportion of players in the game world. This wasn't allowed on the old LLM forum because you could basically get whatever you needed within a couple of seconds. You've got to appreciate that those rules were put in place before things like attribute masking and scouting knowledge were in the game. So as an English league two manager for example, you would instantly have full and complete details of players in the Indonesian second division. Not realistic then, and wouldn't be realistic now.

Thanks to attribute masking and the way the search works now, such unrealistic outcomes are unlikely. I for one am likely to start using these scouting packages on my saves following opinions in this thread 🙂

[Junkhead]

54 minutes ago, cocoadavid said:

I don't understand why people think using the Player Search tool is unrealistic. These days football clubs, and not only football clubs, even my journalist mate have access to a database with an incredible amount of data about thousands of footballers. Stats like chances created, passes into the finald third, xG, xA, xGBuildup, number of successfull pressings, duels, tacklings, interceptions, physical parameters, stats I have never heard of, everything you can imagine. It is almost like an equivalent to the FM Player Search. Also in a podcast I listened to, the guests were a scout and an analyst, and they told that when they are looking for a new type of player the coach asks for, first they search in a database with given parameters, they make a shortlist, and only then start they watching the player in matches and videos.

Not using the player search tool might have been realistic in the 90s, but in 2020, I think it is more realistic to use it than not to use it.

See my post above, but you could well be right. The game is now built for realism in respect of scouting knowledge and attribute masking. Those weren't really part of the game in 1999, for example. And also in 1999, the internet was a very different place.

The player search function then gave you everything, immediately. Now the in game search function is likely closer to real life. It was miles away back then.

As I said, rule is a hangover.

The original LLM rules included "only scout your borders" - there was no board control of scouting at all, you could scout everywhere, IIRC.

[Junkhead]

2 hours ago, Haribo1681 said:

My career is underway... sort of: I was offered an interview with a Danish third division club straight away, but they decided to give the job to their existing DoF instead. Back on holiday we go...

Good luck, keep us in the loop! I will be posting my updates on here too if I ever get any time to play 🙄

[gam945]

4 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

See my post above, but you could well be right. The game is now built for realism in respect of scouting knowledge and attribute masking. Those weren't really part of the game in 1999, for example. And also in 1999, the internet was a very different place.

The player search function then gave you everything, immediately. Now the in game search function is likely closer to real life. It was miles away back then.

As I said, rule is a hangover.

The original LLM rules included "only scout your borders" - there was no board control of scouting at all, you could scout everywhere, IIRC.

Actually the more I think of it, the more I think it's a fair rule. The only thing you should be able to see in the player search to make it realistic is scout's advices (max wage, max AP, recommandations) and stats.

Even the current databases won't give you the real-life equivalents of the attributes or say, the personnality. So it's a very fair rule.

Going forward, I'll only use the player search with the 2 scout views provided in-game, that's a good compromise I believe.

[Brother Ben]

It's interesting to hear the thoughts here on "player search"  I can't comment on it really, i've been playing LLM so long i've literally never clicked the button for years, that's how hard and fast that guideline is. 

From what I remember it just brings up a list of names.  What am I doing with these names?  I can't see any of the attributes so what happens next?  Do I blindly scout a few of them?  Surely telling my scouts what I need and them bringing me back results is better than that?

Genuinely curious

[Platinum]

11 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

It's interesting to hear the thoughts here on "player search"  I can't comment on it really, i've been playing LLM so long i've literally never clicked the button for years, that's how hard and fast that guideline is. 

From what I remember it just brings up a list of names.  What am I doing with these names?  I can't see any of the attributes so what happens next?  Do I blindly scout a few of them?  Surely telling my scouts what I need and them bringing me back results is better than that?

Genuinely curious

I never use the search bar anyway, but not for LLM reasons, just because as you said I tell my scouts what I want. I will search for players that I know of already though. The only other time I use it is to find a competition and that competitions stats (top scorers, most assists, best clubs and their players etc) which imo is realistic anyway because clubs will do this and I wont be able  to see the player attributes unless I scouted them. Interested to hear how people use this the search bar to  find players, as I dont see how else anyone can use it

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by francis#17

[Haribo1681]

57 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Good luck, keep us in the loop! I will be posting my updates on here too if I ever get any time to play 🙄

I have an employer... IK Oddevold in the Swedish fourth tier. I appear to have joined them just in time for the final game of the season (which we won 3-2 thanks to a late free kick... from a player who's agreed to leave at the end of the season).

So I finished the campaign with a 100% record 

[Brother Ben]

3 minutes ago, Haribo1681 said:

I have an employer... IK Oddevold in the Swedish fourth tier. I appear to have joined them just in time for the final game of the season (which we won 3-2 thanks to a late free kick... from a player who's agreed to leave at the end of the season).

So I finished the campaign with a 100% record 

Just quit now and bask in the glory !  

[Junkhead]

41 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

Just quit now and bask in the glory !  

Agree, @Haribo1681 - you've peaked 

Where did they finish the season?

[Junkhead]

1 hour ago, Brother Ben said:

It's interesting to hear the thoughts here on "player search"  I can't comment on it really, i've been playing LLM so long i've literally never clicked the button for years, that's how hard and fast that guideline is. 

From what I remember it just brings up a list of names.  What am I doing with these names?  I can't see any of the attributes so what happens next?  Do I blindly scout a few of them?  Surely telling my scouts what I need and them bringing me back results is better than that?

Genuinely curious

The old "player search" function (as in the filterable search, not the one where you type a name) was replaced a few versions back. Now it is your "scouting package". So gone are the days where your conference north team can see players in the search from Serie C if you filter that way.

You start with a package realistic for your division and can upgrade at a cost to see better/more players if you want. Apparently it is in line with the way things work IRL now a days. Generally, you can see players in the league you are in, the best ones in the division below and the worst ones from the division above. All attributes hidden until scouted though.

So it's more like a player pool to scout from. My understanding is that scouts will find players who are not already part of the package when they are assigned, but I might be wrong there.

I have been on the fence about using it but I think I'm going to give it a go tbh.

[Brother Ben]

2 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

The old "player search" function (as in the filterable search, not the one where you type a name) was replaced a few versions back. Now it is your "scouting package". So gone are the days where your conference north team can see players in the search from Serie C if you filter that way.

You start with a package realistic for your division and can upgrade at a cost to see better/more players if you want. Apparently it is in line with the way things work IRL now a days. Generally, you can see players in the league you are in, the best ones in the division below and the worst ones from the division above. All attributes hidden until scouted though.

So it's more like a player pool to scout from. My understanding is that scouts will find players who are not already part of the package when they are assigned, but I might be wrong there.

I have been on the fence about using it but I think I'm going to give it a go tbh.

Ok cool, let me know what you find.

I will say though that I think there's lots of ways to find players that's fair game, some approach you, others I just spot playing against me so i'll get a scout to watch a couple of their games, I never feel like i'm missing out or that my way is less realistic

[wattzy]

For years I’ve always followed the theory that in order to be realistic you have to start with Sunday league experience. But I’m now moving away from that theory because, let’s face it, a Sunday league footballer will likely never reach the top of the game in football after starting out managing a tier 6 team (or lower). So while it’s probably the nearest you can get, it doesn’t sit as well with me any more and so I just select based on the team I’m choosing to manage now.

My main attempts at keeping things realistic definitely happen in the transfer market. Like you I try to only sign players I come across myself or through scouts. I try to avoid the player search list at all times and only use the ‘scouted’ list and filter from there. I also only sign scouts that apply to an advert or who are suggested by my staff. I’ve been watching one YouTuber a lot recently and wondered how he kept unearthing young gems in the far corners of Europe, then I realised he had attribute masking turned off which for me is a huge no go.

Other than that though I let the game dictate as as football games go it’s as realistic as can be in the other areas.
 

 

[Brother Ben]

Okay if we're going to talk about realism I tend to take it a step further, at least with part time/amateur clubs. 

I use a one hour rule which goes as follows:  (feel free to think i'm nuts )

This involves only signing players within an hours drive of your club. The method for determining this would be to look at the birthplace of the player and also how local to yours their previous clubs are.

The history of players already at the club is also a great way to gauge what transfer moves are viable. For example I have often started with Port Talbot who are based in South Wales as its an area i'm familiar with and they meet the LLM criteria. A quick look at my own players history shows that they have quite often played for other clubs in the locality (Afan Lido, Goytre Utd etc) and often have been released from larger clubs like Swansea, Cardiff etc.

It is worth remembering however that if your club has generally signed players from much greater distances in the past then you know it's realistic to cast your net further afield.

The 'one hour' aspect is fairly arbitrary but it's a good yardstick of how far a player would travel to earn a part time wage and the following tool does the hard work for you.

TravelTime Map

Simply enter the name of your club/town and set the time to an hour and choose car as mode of transport

So to me its fair game to scout the youth teams of Cardiff Swansea and Newport and keep an eye on fellow Welsh league clubs within the radius

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Brother Ben
updated link

[Tom 99]

41 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

(feel free to think i'm nuts )

I wouldn't disagree. 

I like the idea but it is too strict. Some players e. g. get a part-time salary and a job offer from one of the club's sponsors. Some players attend university while playing and so on.

One random example: 
5. league, Notts county

https://www.transfermarkt.de/notts-county/startseite/verein/1045/saison_id/2020

There are players from Ireland, Belgium and Portugal.

[Brother Ben]

16 minutes ago, Tom 99 said:

I wouldn't disagree. 

I like the idea but it is too strict. Some players e. g. get a part-time salary and a job offer from one of the club's sponsors. Some players attend university while playing and so on.

One random example: 
5. league, Notts county

https://www.transfermarkt.de/notts-county/startseite/verein/1045/saison_id/2020

There are players from Ireland, Belgium and Portugal.

This is true, it'll never be perfect but i'd say it was a pretty good yardstick.  

Notts County aren't the best example as they are professional so they can offer good wages.  (and not LLM)

The method I use in the South Wales area is pretty realistic, I have mates who have played in these leagues and they have jobs so can't travel too far.

Your university example holds though as its pretty tough to replicate that but i'm happy with my system overall and it will still give you a sizable pool of players

Edited November 28, 2020 by Brother Ben

[Tom 99]

7 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

Notts County aren't the best example as they are professional so they can offer good wages.  (and not LLM)

My mistake. I know the 5. league in Germany but not in GB.

[Brother Ben]

Just now, Tom 99 said:

My mistake. I know the 5. league in Germany but not in GB.

No worries, the 5th tier in England is a mix of Pro and Semi Pro but for LLM purposes the 6th tier is LLM

This obviously doesn't work everywhere for example 3. Liga in Germany would be considered LLM but my one hour rule would not apply because they can offer professional wages to players.  It may however (depending on whether you are the kind of LLM player that is okay with using league add-ons (many aren't), ) work well at German 5th tier level

The thing to think of is that these guys have other jobs and unless big money is being offered are they going to travel that far or move house for low wages?

Its not perfect but to me it represents a certain level of realism and offers a bit of a challenge.

[Spallo]

You guys are really into it are you?  love it

 

fm21 is my first footy since ‘14 so I toned the realism down and use the tools which are there for me. Otherwise I would suck more than I already do. Of course no cheat tactics, wonderkids and stuff, but all the game gives me.

My approach after almost 6 years without this game was jumping in unemployed, without any badges and knowledge of the game from 2014. Maybe it is not the best way to learn the game, but I guess a completely unproven guy is not so different from me in this regard, so it’s pretty realistic I would say.

Landed in Norways third division and had a good first season. Started okay in the second, but found me reloading a game where I felt completely unrealistically f***** of the game ... now it’s spoiled forever 

so where is this option to save after a game? I am weak and in desperate need of this option 

Cause I am from Germany I plan to start a save in the sixth division (think that’s lowest I have seen through editor files) and this thread will give me tonnes of recommendations to set this up. Very much thank you all in advance 

[Brother Ben]

38 minutes ago, Spallo said:

You guys are really into it are you?  love it

 

fm21 is my first footy since ‘14 so I toned the realism down and use the tools which are there for me. Otherwise I would suck more than I already do. Of course no cheat tactics, wonderkids and stuff, but all the game gives me.

My approach after almost 6 years without this game was jumping in unemployed, without any badges and knowledge of the game from 2014. Maybe it is not the best way to learn the game, but I guess a completely unproven guy is not so different from me in this regard, so it’s pretty realistic I would say.

Landed in Norways third division and had a good first season. Started okay in the second, but found me reloading a game where I felt completely unrealistically f***** of the game ... now it’s spoiled forever 

so where is this option to save after a game? I am weak and in desperate need of this option 

Cause I am from Germany I plan to start a save in the sixth division (think that’s lowest I have seen through editor files) and this thread will give me tonnes of recommendations to set this up. Very much thank you all in advance 

Stick with it mate seriously just don't reload, like you say its a save killer, makes it all hollow.  Imagine LLM like a journey, you may hit bumps in the road but you can look back at the highs and lows fondly at a later date.  I just did some digging on my hard drive because I knew i'd kept some stuff from the old LLaMa forum on here to keep me motivated in my LLM save.

I came across this, I think it was written by LLM stalwart iajafer and was one of the stickys on that forum, I remember it striking a chord with me at the time.  I really hope he doesn't mind me posting it here but hopefully some of you will find it useful

 

Spoiler

WHY LLM??

Why indeed. Considering a single FM season can run into days, not including the fact that the majority of us have jobs or school and you wonder why with serious intent. The lowest league of football is not a kind place. It is a place of part time footballers whose hobbies include getting heavily drunk and kicking people. These are journeymen in their Mecca; plumbers, policemen etc all coming together to play the game they love for a pittance in the vain hope of achieving some kind of glory at the end. People like Theo Walcott, C. Ronaldo and Wayne Rooney will never play at this level; they will never experience the purity of normal people going for a kick about because these boys have never been normal. And in the same way I feel that in order to appreciate the purity of Football Manager you have to learn to obey its rules, learn it the right way and ultimately learn to be a decent manager. Sure we can all take Chelsea to the top, we can all take Wigan to the top, and we can all take Darlington to the top, even Cambridge United. But can you do it under the strict rules with which LLMers abide to as if they were the two stone slabs placed in your hands by God himself? Short answer: no. “Why?” you protest, confused at how you, the man who bathed in the glory of the Swansea fans, celebrating your fourth consecutive Champions League© title in a row, could ever be dismissed as a poor manager. Well for starters every single player you used was either signed via looking through a list of filtered players, tailored to meet your needs, or God forbid acquired using cheat devices. Then there’s to take into account the resetting after losses, and don’t give me the I didn’t do that crap, no one wins four back to back Champions League© titles in a row unless they cheat, period.

 

You see the ultimate satisfaction when playing the LLM way is the sense of self achievement, the sense that you are part of an elite club who can genuinely say they understand how to be a good manager. LLM is about the details, it is about trial and improvement and most of all it is about a journey. Because that’s what it will be. Don’t even be so narcissistic as to believe it will be six seasons between bottom tier and top tier glory. In most cases it will be anything from 10 seasons (if you’re blessed with the luck of the Irish) to never ( the luck of the Scottish). I know it sounds daunting, and it is, but surely yet another round of “quest for glory” with a team you know all about, with all the player knowledge you have and other general prior knowledge, surely that gets boring. I know people love to win, but I’d say you’re continually cheating yourself and quite a sad person if you repeatedly play as Chelsea or other teams when you know that in five seasons you’ll be bored and start again, or not play anymore. Personally I like to challenge myself, I like the sense of achievement I get from completing a strenuous task. The age old adage that you have to experience the lows in order to fully appreciate the highs is nothing short of apt in the world of LLM.

 

I suppose it comes down to how determined you are to go the distance. I’m not going to lie, at times it will become nothing more than a tiresome task, trying to escape divisions and stave off the hungry administrators, but you have to look beyond those moments of despair never give up. You could treat it as a project, whereby you set aside a certain amount each day to Just Do It©. It does get easier as time goes on, but only if you dedicate yourself. For me the best part of an LLM career is looking at your snapshot screen after twenty seasons and just admiring how colourful your career has been. Famous cup runs, goals scored, best players (nostalgia is never better in LLM) these things you never really appreciate in normal play because you know they’ll happen. LLM is about dealing with the scum of football and working your way towards the rarefied level of success every person in football longs to be involved with. You may never get there, you may find that in actual fact you really aren’t good enough, I hate to say it but LLM isn’t about lying, in fact if you had to describe LLM in one word, other than “hard”, you’d probably agree if I said “honest”.

 

So I implore you, perturbed reader, at the very least give it a go. As you can imagine, it is not for everyone, but it opens up a whole new world that increases the longevity of your experience and gives you more to talk about, experience and achieve. The camaraderie, the passion and the wealth of learning you do will undoubtedly fill you with a sense of satisfaction that one can only achieve by playing the game “The Right Way© (me 2006). Good luck, because if anything, you most certainly will need it.

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Brother Ben

[DementedHammer]

That was a good read. One thing that I disagree with - playing at the lowest possible level is never a grind for me. Getting a team, with barely a double figure attribute amongst the whole starting eleven, to play something that resembles decent football is the best part of the experience for me. 

I used to love reading the LLaMa blogs where players went from one sacking to the next before eventually finding some limited success, only to end up sacked again after a bad run of results. Those kind of blogs were a cracking read. 

[Haribo1681]

This just made me chuckle - annual bonus payment, Swedish fourth tier style: £375 shared out between a squad of 25 players equals £15 each. Don't spend it all at once, lads!

[Spallo]

@Brother Ben

The thing is, just this awful 2-3 loss tells a story which is longer than anything you come across in the “normal” FM world. And that is beautiful. And after I save scummed for the first time in this save, it became immediately clear to me, that this could potentially end the fun of it. So the feel is not the problem ...

I think the problem is to accept FM as part or process of life. That sounds maybe a little over the top, but I think it’s the most basic rule you can give you. It’s a hobby and you aren’t necessarily good at it or win always.

But I am also a weak gaming nature and that’s where the fuss about the “game is so easy” begins. I want to beat the game and I can’t accept the possibility that I play for years (which I will do with this FM, cause last FM obviously was 2014 ) and never come close to winning anything. You have to get rid of this attitude, if you want to be a true hobby manager, but it’s tough and I certainly need help for this. So an immediate save after every game - an Ironman save so to say - would be a good place to start.

[Junkhead]

9 hours ago, Brother Ben said:

This involves only signing players within an hours drive of your club. The method for determining this would be to look at the birthplace of the player and also how local to yours their previous clubs are.

Have done similar myself - not loaded up the travel map, but if I am in the conference north up in the north west of England, I would not be signing players from the south coast. Find it more difficult abroad as I don't know the geography, but that tool you posted is great, might give that a go!

[Junkhead]

7 hours ago, Brother Ben said:

Stick with it mate seriously just don't reload, like you say its a save killer, makes it all hollow.  Imagine LLM like a journey, you may hit bumps in the road but you can look back at the highs and lows fondly at a later date.  I just did some digging on my hard drive because I knew i'd kept some stuff from the old LLaMa forum on here to keep me motivated in my LLM save.

I came across this, I think it was written by LLM stalwart iajafer and was one of the stickys on that forum, I remember it striking a chord with me at the time.  I really hope he doesn't mind me posting it here but hopefully some of you will find it useful

 

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WHY LLM??

Why indeed. Considering a single FM season can run into days, not including the fact that the majority of us have jobs or school and you wonder why with serious intent. The lowest league of football is not a kind place. It is a place of part time footballers whose hobbies include getting heavily drunk and kicking people. These are journeymen in their Mecca; plumbers, policemen etc all coming together to play the game they love for a pittance in the vain hope of achieving some kind of glory at the end. People like Theo Walcott, C. Ronaldo and Wayne Rooney will never play at this level; they will never experience the purity of normal people going for a kick about because these boys have never been normal. And in the same way I feel that in order to appreciate the purity of Football Manager you have to learn to obey its rules, learn it the right way and ultimately learn to be a decent manager. Sure we can all take Chelsea to the top, we can all take Wigan to the top, and we can all take Darlington to the top, even Cambridge United. But can you do it under the strict rules with which LLMers abide to as if they were the two stone slabs placed in your hands by God himself? Short answer: no. “Why?” you protest, confused at how you, the man who bathed in the glory of the Swansea fans, celebrating your fourth consecutive Champions League© title in a row, could ever be dismissed as a poor manager. Well for starters every single player you used was either signed via looking through a list of filtered players, tailored to meet your needs, or God forbid acquired using cheat devices. Then there’s to take into account the resetting after losses, and don’t give me the I didn’t do that crap, no one wins four back to back Champions League© titles in a row unless they cheat, period.

 

You see the ultimate satisfaction when playing the LLM way is the sense of self achievement, the sense that you are part of an elite club who can genuinely say they understand how to be a good manager. LLM is about the details, it is about trial and improvement and most of all it is about a journey. Because that’s what it will be. Don’t even be so narcissistic as to believe it will be six seasons between bottom tier and top tier glory. In most cases it will be anything from 10 seasons (if you’re blessed with the luck of the Irish) to never ( the luck of the Scottish). I know it sounds daunting, and it is, but surely yet another round of “quest for glory” with a team you know all about, with all the player knowledge you have and other general prior knowledge, surely that gets boring. I know people love to win, but I’d say you’re continually cheating yourself and quite a sad person if you repeatedly play as Chelsea or other teams when you know that in five seasons you’ll be bored and start again, or not play anymore. Personally I like to challenge myself, I like the sense of achievement I get from completing a strenuous task. The age old adage that you have to experience the lows in order to fully appreciate the highs is nothing short of apt in the world of LLM.

 

I suppose it comes down to how determined you are to go the distance. I’m not going to lie, at times it will become nothing more than a tiresome task, trying to escape divisions and stave off the hungry administrators, but you have to look beyond those moments of despair never give up. You could treat it as a project, whereby you set aside a certain amount each day to Just Do It©. It does get easier as time goes on, but only if you dedicate yourself. For me the best part of an LLM career is looking at your snapshot screen after twenty seasons and just admiring how colourful your career has been. Famous cup runs, goals scored, best players (nostalgia is never better in LLM) these things you never really appreciate in normal play because you know they’ll happen. LLM is about dealing with the scum of football and working your way towards the rarefied level of success every person in football longs to be involved with. You may never get there, you may find that in actual fact you really aren’t good enough, I hate to say it but LLM isn’t about lying, in fact if you had to describe LLM in one word, other than “hard”, you’d probably agree if I said “honest”.

 

So I implore you, perturbed reader, at the very least give it a go. As you can imagine, it is not for everyone, but it opens up a whole new world that increases the longevity of your experience and gives you more to talk about, experience and achieve. The camaraderie, the passion and the wealth of learning you do will undoubtedly fill you with a sense of satisfaction that one can only achieve by playing the game “The Right Way© (me 2006). Good luck, because if anything, you most certainly will need it.

 

Amazing that someone as regularly furious as iajafer was could write something so poignant, and much better than my original post. 😂

Wonder how he is doing?

[Junkhead]

6 hours ago, DementedHammer said:

That was a good read. One thing that I disagree with - playing at the lowest possible level is never a grind for me. Getting a team, with barely a double figure attribute amongst the whole starting eleven, to play something that resembles decent football is the best part of the experience for me. 

I used to love reading the LLaMa blogs where players went from one sacking to the next before eventually finding some limited success, only to end up sacked again after a bad run of results. Those kind of blogs were a cracking read. 

Agreed. I am 100% each to their own camp and love a browse of the career updates forums. As soon as people post pictures of their transfers in and I see that they have signed 20 players before a ball has been kicked, I stop reading. I mean I'm glad they're enjoying their saves but it's not for me, that.

[Junkhead]

59 minutes ago, Spallo said:

@Brother Ben

The thing is, just this awful 2-3 loss tells a story which is longer than anything you come across in the “normal” FM world. And that is beautiful. And after I save scummed for the first time in this save, it became immediately clear to me, that this could potentially end the fun of it. So the feel is not the problem ...

I think the problem is to accept FM as part or process of life. That sounds maybe a little over the top, but I think it’s the most basic rule you can give you. It’s a hobby and you aren’t necessarily good at it or win always.

But I am also a weak gaming nature and that’s where the fuss about the “game is so easy” begins. I want to beat the game and I can’t accept the possibility that I play for years (which I will do with this FM, cause last FM obviously was 2014 ) and never come close to winning anything. You have to get rid of this attitude, if you want to be a true hobby manager, but it’s tough and I certainly need help for this. So an immediate save after every game - an Ironman save so to say - would be a good place to start.

Have a look in the preferences - rolling autosave options. There is an option there to autosave after every game.

[Brother Ben]

19 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Have a look in the preferences - rolling autosave options. There is an option there to autosave after every game.

it's a lot quicker to save now which helps

[Haribo1681]

12 hours ago, Junkhead said:

Agree, @Haribo1681 - you've peaked 

Where did they finish the season?

Only just seen this! In real life, they were relegated from the third tier and in the first in-game season, 7/14 in the Division 2 Norra Götaland. We're a part-time outfit, our highest earner is on £130 p/w and we've just sold a hot prospect for £5k. And so it begins...

[Junkhead]

8 minutes ago, Haribo1681 said:

Only just seen this! In real life, they were relegated from the third tier and in the first in-game season, 7/14 in the Division 2 Norra Götaland. We're a part-time outfit, our highest earner is on £130 p/w and we've just sold a hot prospect for £5k. And so it begins...

This is literally the prototype post for a LLM save for those that have never done one. £5k for a hot prospect 

[Haribo1681]

26 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

This is literally the prototype post for a LLM save for those that have never done one. £5k for a hot prospect 

I've since had my star central midfielder prised away for £6k rising to £7k. My squad is in turmoil but I couldn't deny him the chance to step up two division and go professional. Scrabbling around to replace these two (and another key player who'd agreed a free before I joined) feels like the epitome of LLM.

[Spallo]

Feels the same here. My youth squad was really good and my 18/19 year old striker scored 16 goals in 19 matches in the first season. Had a really good 19 year old playmaker on the bench and planned for the new season to bring up my hot prospect central defender (17). Both with really good potential. A few days in the transfer window came the first offer for the midfielder, who played a good role as a backup in the first season. Got the offer to 32K (was worth 1,1k) and thought, yeah well, we are not exactly financially stable so I sell him. Three days after comes a offer for the 17 year old, who was the cornerstone for a potential promotion squad. Recected it two or three times, but the chairman stepped in and took an offer of 30k. Now my young striker has goal draught and my two other cornerstones for the future are gone. But at least the financial standing is better - the chairman will like it 

 

Iron man save implemented btw 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Spallo

[Haribo1681]

14 minutes ago, Spallo said:

Feels the same here. My youth squad was really good and my 18/19 year old striker scored 16 goals in 19 matches in the first season. Had a really good 19 year old playmaker on the bench and planned for the new season to bring up my hot prospect central defender (17). Both with really good potential. A few days in the transfer window came the first offer for the midfielder, who played a good role as a backup in the first season. Got the offer to 32K (was worth 1,1k) and thought, yeah well, we are not exactly financially stable so I sell him. Three days after comes a offer for the 17 year old, who was the cornerstone for a potential promotion squad. Recected it two or three times, but the chairman stepped in and took an offer of 30k. Now my young striker has goal draught and my two other cornerstones for the future are gone. But at least the financial standing is better - the chairman will like it 

 

Iron man save implemented btw 

£30k! I dream of that kind of income - last season we paid a total of £12k in player wages 

It looks like we have decent potential in the squad, but I'm a bit reluctant to trust these reports at this stage...

[Platinum]

47 minutes ago, Spallo said:

Feels the same here. My youth squad was really good and my 18/19 year old striker scored 16 goals in 19 matches in the first season. Had a really good 19 year old playmaker on the bench and planned for the new season to bring up my hot prospect central defender (17). Both with really good potential. A few days in the transfer window came the first offer for the midfielder, who played a good role as a backup in the first season. Got the offer to 32K (was worth 1,1k) and thought, yeah well, we are not exactly financially stable so I sell him. Three days after comes a offer for the 17 year old, who was the cornerstone for a potential promotion squad. Recected it two or three times, but the chairman stepped in and took an offer of 30k. Now my young striker has goal draught and my two other cornerstones for the future are gone. But at least the financial standing is better - the chairman will like it 

 

Iron man save implemented btw 

What's an Ironman save

[Spallo]

@francis#17 See some posts above ... got tempted and was reloading a game  so now my game saves after every match automatically and I have no rolling savefiles.

[WilsonJuve]

So happy to see a post like this on the forums. Been playing around with mid table and top teams since the Beta released but this has inspired me to get started. I used to love starting at the bottom back in the day. Used the typical setup. 

Disable first transfer window.
Do not add key staff.
Prevent control of teams with managers.
And attributes are hidden.

I also have 17 countries loaded with full leagues selected so look forward to seeing who wants a manager with Zero badges and experince.

[Platinum]

Never known if I should add key staff. Does the add key staff option add staff that the club would actually have?

[WilsonJuve]

4 minutes ago, francis#17 said:

Never known if I should add key staff. Does the add key staff option add staff that the club would actually have?

No it adds fake staff members for staff that are missing at the club. So if you joined Liverpool for example and the club didn't have an assistant manager. It would put one there when you start the game. 

[Junkhead]

2 hours ago, francis#17 said:

Never known if I should add key staff. Does the add key staff option add staff that the club would actually have?

As I tend to look to move them out asap, I don't use this options personally. 

[WilsonJuve]

So I started with no past experience and no badges. Chesterfield in the Vanarama National League turned me down without so much as an interview, yet Wigan Athletic who are currently in League One offered me an interview without me asking then about 10 weeks later offered me the managers job..........