The Realism Thread

[jcp1417]

What is a realistic amount of youth intake signings for a top club? Normally 15-16 players come through but I feel like if I signed every player, I'd end up with way too many after a few years. Does anyone have a set amount that they sign to youth contracts, and even further, what's realistic number as far as signing them to pro contracts when they turn 17

[Grifty]

1 hour ago, jcp1417 said:

What is a realistic amount of youth intake signings for a top club? Normally 15-16 players come through but I feel like if I signed every player, I'd end up with way too many after a few years. Does anyone have a set amount that they sign to youth contracts, and even further, what's realistic number as far as signing them to pro contracts when they turn 17

I normally have a cycle of signing every player in my intake for a couple of seasons (except any real stinkers) and then just cherry picking the best ones for a couple of seasons.

I don't often have much of an u23 squad so my u18s play a lot of these games so I aim to have around 25-28 u18 players and about 10 u23 players which is then boosted by the best u18s and 1st teasers I need to be getting match fitness if they don't play much.

[George_84]

Hi guys,

new to the forum and joined it exactly for a topic like this. I've been playing fm since CM 97/98 and am hooked on the series ever since. The last few years I turned away from quick succes games and started playing fm the llm way. It didn't bring me much succes or trophies, but a lot more satisfaction actually reaching something (even escaping relegation).

I always start unemployed, no badges or reputation, no player search, every signing from scouts or staff recommendation, no quitting, self build tactics, ... and it's the only way I enjoy playing fm for a while.

I came across this 1h drive rule in this thread and it got me thinking about scouting as lower league club. Right now I started a game with Dorking (got offered the job in november, 20th in the league). I located them on the map and searched for other teams nearby. Wouldn't it be logical that the real life dorking manager send his scouts to get reports on the U23's of nearby bigger clubs (Clubs based in the south side of London) or teams playing one or two division higher to poach players that might be interested to revive their career at a semi pro club not to far from their previous club. 

I don't think semi pro clubs in real life buy scouting data to make their next move on the transfer market, so it feels more realistic to go scout nearby teams to get players in. 

What's your opinion?

[Grifty]

28 minutes ago, George_84 said:

Hi guys,

new to the forum and joined it exactly for a topic like this. I've been playing fm since CM 97/98 and am hooked on the series ever since. The last few years I turned away from quick succes games and started playing fm the llm way. It didn't bring me much succes or trophies, but a lot more satisfaction actually reaching something (even escaping relegation).

I always start unemployed, no badges or reputation, no player search, every signing from scouts or staff recommendation, no quitting, self build tactics, ... and it's the only way I enjoy playing fm for a while.

I came across this 1h drive rule in this thread and it got me thinking about scouting as lower league club. Right now I started a game with Dorking (got offered the job in november, 20th in the league). I located them on the map and searched for other teams nearby. Wouldn't it be logical that the real life dorking manager send his scouts to get reports on the U23's of nearby bigger clubs (Clubs based in the south side of London) or teams playing one or two division higher to poach players that might be interested to revive their career at a semi pro club not to far from their previous club. 

I don't think semi pro clubs in real life buy scouting data to make their next move on the transfer market, so it feels more realistic to go scout nearby teams to get players in. 

What's your opinion?

Quite a good idea if you have the patience for it. Maybe you could extend that by a further hour each time you get promoted.

[George_84]

It actually is a prettig quick way to scout an entire team. Right now, this way of scouting got me a quick view of potential signings and loans from Sutton and Woking. Interesting players for loans appear in the scoutingmenu where I decide to get a better look at them. I think I might expand my scouting zone when my club gets a higher profile as it would appeal more to players living further.

[Junkhead]

12 hours ago, George_84 said:

Hi guys,

new to the forum and joined it exactly for a topic like this. I've been playing fm since CM 97/98 and am hooked on the series ever since. The last few years I turned away from quick succes games and started playing fm the llm way. It didn't bring me much succes or trophies, but a lot more satisfaction actually reaching something (even escaping relegation).

I always start unemployed, no badges or reputation, no player search, every signing from scouts or staff recommendation, no quitting, self build tactics, ... and it's the only way I enjoy playing fm for a while.

I came across this 1h drive rule in this thread and it got me thinking about scouting as lower league club. Right now I started a game with Dorking (got offered the job in november, 20th in the league). I located them on the map and searched for other teams nearby. Wouldn't it be logical that the real life dorking manager send his scouts to get reports on the U23's of nearby bigger clubs (Clubs based in the south side of London) or teams playing one or two division higher to poach players that might be interested to revive their career at a semi pro club not to far from their previous club. 

I don't think semi pro clubs in real life buy scouting data to make their next move on the transfer market, so it feels more realistic to go scout nearby teams to get players in. 

What's your opinion?

Welcome ☺️

 

IMO, scouting local u23 matches themselves would be ok from a realism perspective, but scouting u23 squads themselves, probably not.   If they weren't playing in matches, how would the scout get to know about them?

[Junkhead]

Glad to see this thread still going. Super busy at work at the moment (and have been for months) so not getting any time to play at all. Hoping to get back into my save soon!

[George_84]

I currently gave my scout the assignment to go scout all u23 and u18 squads a one hour drive away from dorking. sometimes they cannot make a report because there is no information to get on a team (no players, no competition). But i like the fact that tour squad says there are a couple of good signings around here, no point on getting a Package trying to get info on northern based players.

[bazhsw]

The one hour thing came about from some players thinking 'realistically, who would uproot their family, leave their job for a part time contract of x per week', so in terms of expanding scouting range I have an informal rule of only doing that when the club is full time, not when it necessarily gets promoted.

 

In terms of scouting nearby clubs and their youth teams I would say that is pretty accurate to how things work in real life anyway - scouting your neighbours and tapping up the nearby league club for some of their kids.  I suppose my only pointer would be on 'realistic loans'.  I don't have a hard and fast guideline but as an example a Premier League club with elite facilities isn't letting their teenage wonderkid out on loan to get hacked to pieces in non-league these days.  Of course non-league is full of ex-professionals on their way down and kids who never quite made it in better teams youth teams so I think the approach is a good one

[Outrospective]

Shower thought: unless you go for non-professional leagues in the lowest depths of the football world starting with no badges and sunday league rep is neither fun nor realistic. Starting with the semi-pro and National C at least vastly improves your range of possible first job offers and enhances your overall experience as well, so consider using it.

[bazhsw]

I guess part of the appeal of LLM for me is the 'get what you are given' element of the first job when you are not well equipped for Football Manager.  It can make those early seasons a real slog, especially if the only jobs are with sides who are almost certain to be relegation strugglers.  

Of course, I wouldn't want anyone to be playing and not having fun, but there is something about gradually improving your reputation and getting badges and how the players change in their actions towards you.

[twattyatkins]

Hey all,

I've been playing LLM now for around 13-14 years but only ever did it in the British Isles.

This year I fancied a change for what will probably be my last save on this version by doing a 'Tour of the Americas' LLM.

I've loaded up all the Northern and South American leagues (boxed version no editor) and started as usual with sunday league rep and no badges and managed to land the job at Cobreloa in the Chilean B divsion. I'm one season in and have to say I haven't had this much fun on FM for a long time. It's great managing in league where you have zero knowledge of the clubs or the players and having to work with a different set of rules. I've even started following their results in real life.

If anyone is stuck in a bit of rut with their usual save, I fully recommend a save like this. It's real challenge and a proper step out of the comfort zone, but throughly enjoyable.

 

[Hovis Dexter]

41 minutes ago, twattyatkins said:

Hey all,

I've been playing LLM now for around 13-14 years but only ever did it in the British Isles.

This year I fancied a change for what will probably be my last save on this version by doing a 'Tour of the Americas' LLM.

I've loaded up all the Northern and South American leagues (boxed version no editor) and started as usual with sunday league rep and no badges and managed to land the job at Cobreloa in the Chilean B divsion. I'm one season in and have to say I haven't had this much fun on FM for a long time. It's great managing in league where you have zero knowledge of the clubs or the players and having to work with a different set of rules. I've even started following their results in real life.

If anyone is stuck in a bit of rut with their usual save, I fully recommend a save like this. It's real challenge and a proper step out of the comfort zone, but throughly enjoyable.

 

I'd be interested to learn which nationality / nationalities you gave yourself

[twattyatkins]

5 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said:

I'd be interested to learn which nationality / nationalities you gave yourself

I play totally as myself (English) which is even more of a challenge, but I noticed about half a season in under my languages it had basic Spanish also

[George_84]

On 24/07/2021 at 23:54, bazhsw said:

The one hour thing came about from some players thinking 'realistically, who would uproot their family, leave their job for a part time contract of x per week', so in terms of expanding scouting range I have an informal rule of only doing that when the club is full time, not when it necessarily gets promoted.

 

In terms of scouting nearby clubs and their youth teams I would say that is pretty accurate to how things work in real life anyway - scouting your neighbours and tapping up the nearby league club for some of their kids.  I suppose my only pointer would be on 'realistic loans'.  I don't have a hard and fast guideline but as an example a Premier League club with elite facilities isn't letting their teenage wonderkid out on loan to get hacked to pieces in non-league these days.  Of course non-league is full of ex-professionals on their way down and kids who never quite made it in better teams youth teams so I think the approach is a good one

The game itself seems to have a implemented that. I'm not able to get the youngsters from West Ham or QPR, but League 1 teams do let their younger players go on loan to Dorking. Scouting younger players from nearby premier league teams gives me a more realistic approach to the "here is a list of hot prospects released by their clubs". I would think Dorking would be keeping a list of local high profile youngsters and would try to sign them when they become available.

As for expanding scouting territory: I would only consider it if the club went professional and is struggling to find players closer to home. I guess I would firstly try to get loan players from high profile clubs further rather than rushing my scouts around the UK.  

[joshpmilton]

On 26/07/2021 at 21:07, George_84 said:

The game itself seems to have a implemented that. I'm not able to get the youngsters from West Ham or QPR, but League 1 teams do let their younger players go on loan to Dorking. Scouting younger players from nearby premier league teams gives me a more realistic approach to the "here is a list of hot prospects released by their clubs". I would think Dorking would be keeping a list of local high profile youngsters and would try to sign them when they become available.

As for expanding scouting territory: I would only consider it if the club went professional and is struggling to find players closer to home. I guess I would firstly try to get loan players from high profile clubs further rather than rushing my scouts around the UK.  

I've managed a fair bit on the National League divisions, and agree that this has been implemented much better on this version that I've noticed. In my games I've managed around the London area, so have tried to loan players from the bigger clubs in the capital, and I've not had much luck loaning from Arsenal/Tottenham/Chelsea, but have had more success with Leyton Orient & Barnet.

[Junkhead]

After taking a break over the spring because of a health scare and stupidly busy time with work, I have finally managed to complete a season on this version!

Decided to start a little higher up the leagues than usual because of my lack of time, I went for Niort in French Ligue 2 - still playing by all my usual rules though.

We did well having been predicted to come 16th by finishing 6th, 4 points from a play off position. This was mainly due to an excellent run of form at the beginning of the season, only losing one game until February but drawing far too many. A really tough February and March saw us drop out of the play offs and we couldn't get back there.

With very little money at the beginning of the game, I identified 5-6 saleable assets at the start of the season and tied them all down to long term contracts in the hope of moving one on in January. A calculated risk that didn't pay off as no bids came in and I ended the season massively in the red and way over the wage budget.

Now expecting to spend the summer getting rid of fringe players and replacing them with cheaper loans all whilst hoping offers come in for the better players to put us back on a decent footing.  The board's trust in me diminished in the second half of the season and if we start the next season like we finished the last, I expect I won't see Christmas.  Loving the save though, hope everyone else is enjoying theirs!

[Brother Ben]

Good to have you back mate, hope you're feeling better  

Sounds like a tough job in France, wouldn't be any fun if it was easy though!

[SCCP1910]

Good to see this thread is still going, even if it's been a few weeks since the last post 

 

On 25/07/2021 at 21:23, Outrospective said:

Shower thought: unless you go for non-professional leagues in the lowest depths of the football world starting with no badges and sunday league rep is neither fun nor realistic. Starting with the semi-pro and National C at least vastly improves your range of possible first job offers and enhances your overall experience as well, so consider using it.

The licenses in FM don't really make sense, at least if you're managing in Europe since UEFA only has 3 licenses, and even at semi-pro sides you're required to have at least the UEFA B, so when setting up my manager profile I always give myself the Continental B which I think is the equivalent.

 

 

On 29/07/2021 at 07:32, Junkhead said:

Decided to start a little higher up the leagues than usual because of my lack of time, I went for Niort in French Ligue 2 - still playing by all my usual rules though.

 

When I start in the professional leagues I try to give myself a little backstory, normally as a former youth player for a pro club who had to retire due to injuries and then rose up the lower divisions as a manager (or as a youth coach for professional sides if I don't find enough information about a country's lower leagues). It's nice for realism, but it does take a while of trawling through Wikipedia pages 

[casualassassin]

LOVE this topic. I just started playing FM last year with 20 due to the pandemic and being locked away at home, and had only a very base level of experience with association football, but I was sucked in immediately. I thought it was a little too easy starting as Chelsea (I only picked them to support because I love their goal song Chelsea Dagger) and ended up finishing second on the final day to Liverpool by goal differential and losing in the semis of the Champions League. I wanted to start at the bottom, so I started with no badges and no experience with the main 5 countries, and was eventually hired at Oxford City FC in the National League South. I was able to drag them to League One after 10 seasons, but was fired before January that year due to being in the relegation zone. I then switched over to FM21, and started at Oxford City again. 

I found this thread earlier this week and perused it during work hours, and found the 9llamas site on the first or second page, so I decided to follow that way to play, for the most part. I wanted it to be as random as possible, I rolled a 6-sided die to determine which continent I'd play on, and landed on Europe. I then condensed the leagues into groups that would allow me to roll a d20, then flipped a coin between Spain and Portugal, and landed on Spain. I then rolled a d5 to determine the subdivision, and a d10 to FINALLY pick a team, and landed on Tudelano. 

I'm not following the entirety of the LLaMa ruleset, in that I'm not using the No-Stars/No-Attributes skin and I'm using the FME skin. I am following everything else as closely as is still fun to me, and did find the 1-hour rule, which I really enjoy. 

I did have some older players on outrageous wages and was about 2k/wk over the budget, so I had to sell some players that were mainstays, but strengthening our financial situation will better position us for the future. However in the season prediction, I plummeted to mid-table(as opposed to 2nd). I played through the friendlies, and in the meantime was able to pull in a loan player from my parent club Athletic Bilbao to strengthen the weak spot at center-back. I decided to play the first competitive match to see how I would stack up against a league team in Ejea, and ended up winning 4-1. 

Can't wait to get stuck in, my FM21 Oxford City save was starting to get mired after a 2nd season promotion to the National League(currently going on 3rd year mid-table with no sign of moving up )

[Brother Ben]

5 hours ago, casualassassin said:

LOVE this topic. I just started playing FM last year with 20 due to the pandemic and being locked away at home, and had only a very base level of experience with association football, but I was sucked in immediately. I thought it was a little too easy starting as Chelsea (I only picked them to support because I love their goal song Chelsea Dagger) and ended up finishing second on the final day to Liverpool by goal differential and losing in the semis of the Champions League. I wanted to start at the bottom, so I started with no badges and no experience with the main 5 countries, and was eventually hired at Oxford City FC in the National League South. I was able to drag them to League One after 10 seasons, but was fired before January that year due to being in the relegation zone. I then switched over to FM21, and started at Oxford City again. 

I found this thread earlier this week and perused it during work hours, and found the 9llamas site on the first or second page, so I decided to follow that way to play, for the most part. I wanted it to be as random as possible, I rolled a 6-sided die to determine which continent I'd play on, and landed on Europe. I then condensed the leagues into groups that would allow me to roll a d20, then flipped a coin between Spain and Portugal, and landed on Spain. I then rolled a d5 to determine the subdivision, and a d10 to FINALLY pick a team, and landed on Tudelano. 

I'm not following the entirety of the LLaMa ruleset, in that I'm not using the No-Stars/No-Attributes skin and I'm using the FME skin. I am following everything else as closely as is still fun to me, and did find the 1-hour rule, which I really enjoy. 

I did have some older players on outrageous wages and was about 2k/wk over the budget, so I had to sell some players that were mainstays, but strengthening our financial situation will better position us for the future. However in the season prediction, I plummeted to mid-table(as opposed to 2nd). I played through the friendlies, and in the meantime was able to pull in a loan player from my parent club Athletic Bilbao to strengthen the weak spot at center-back. I decided to play the first competitive match to see how I would stack up against a league team in Ejea, and ended up winning 4-1. 

Can't wait to get stuck in, my FM21 Oxford City save was starting to get mired after a 2nd season promotion to the National League(currently going on 3rd year mid-table with no sign of moving up )

That’s great, glad you like the site and don’t worry the skin is in no way mandatory, sometimes I use it sometimes I don’t 

The one hour rule I always use as I think it just adds a layer of challenge and makes you learn a bit about the area your club is from which makes it that bit more immersive.

Im glad you’re finding the LLM approach rewarding.  Keep posting here, I’d love to hear how you get on

I love the dice approach by the way!

Edited August 13, 2021 by Brother Ben

[casualassassin]

So I made it to the eve of the winter transfer window. I have $0 transfer budget and am about $1300/wk over on my wage bill, so I won't be buying anything, though I may look for some quality loans out there. I am 3rd in the division with 7 games remaining, however I've already played the 8th and 10th teams in the division so it'll be interesting to see where I end up. I am losing a left winger, who's contributed to 3 goals, but I absolutely NEED to balance out the books. 

[Federico]

Il 21/1/2021 in 18:19 , Junkhead ha scritto:

Joking aside, I don't get why people buy the game year in/year out and just play as Liverpool/Real/Juve/PSG constantly. 

For me FM is an opportunity to experience something different each year. LLM gives me that. 

Oh wow, that's a long shot replying a post from the past January but hey, I felt the need to reply!

I can give you a couple of answers immediatly: there's some people who LOVES to take the control of the team they support and win everything with it AND there's some people who LOVES to have a bottomless well of money to spend on the best players of the game, building a wonder-team up. Bonus: there's even some people who LOVES to see the team they manage to lift trophies in a pretty short time.

I'm pretty sure there's some people that literally would never play LLM because that way to play FM would probably give them absolutely nothing but boredom.

And that's it! Thanks FM for giving a different and personal enjoyment to each one of us, hurray!

[Junkhead]

Update;

So after a decent first season with Niort, I finally managed to make a profit by selling some of my star players in the summer. Two I had earmarked to leave went for a total of £6m - massive money in Ligue 2.  As I was expecting them to leave, I had a couple of replacements lined up but they were more about the potential than the present, which did leave me a little short.  Then, out of the blue, a bid came in for my captain and most important player which the board accepted at a mere £750k. I appealed to them to reconsider on the basis we could make FAR more (I was expecting at least £2.5-£3m). They agreed we could make more and then promptly sold him to Charleroi for £800k. I was furious but soldiered on. The problem was I had no real replacements scouted or shortlisted, so bought in 2 replacements hoping one would fill his shoes. They both did ok, but were nowhere near as effective in creating chances and our XG, Goals for and thus league position was dramatically hit. By November we were 15th, and board and dressing room confidence was dropping. I altered tactics to make us less dependent on a playmaker to create chances since it was a playmaker we lacked, but it didn't help and I was waiting for the dreaded "x points in the next 5 matches" message when, without having applied, 19th in Ligue Un Bordeaux offered me an interview.

I had their hands off when they offered it to me.

Having played about 8 league games with them, I have pulled them up to 17th and am starting to find a bit of form. Now in February, hopeful of a safe finish to the season and then pushing on for top half next.

This is the first time in about 7 years I have managed in a top division and am enjoying the difference. Hoping to keep this save going before starting rock bottom in FM22 and actually sticking with it this time!

 

[Brother Ben]

On 29/08/2021 at 10:56, Junkhead said:

Hoping to keep this save going before starting rock bottom in FM22 and actually sticking with it this time!

Same here mate, i'm going to commit to a one save career.  I used to do it all the time in previous versions but like yourself I struggled in FM21.  Got a new laptop though so it gives me better options for a larger gameworld so hopefully it'll stick this time

Edited September 1, 2021 by Brother Ben
wrong FM version stated

[Platinum]

9 hours ago, Junkhead said:

Update;

So after a decent first season with Niort, I finally managed to make a profit by selling some of my star players in the summer. Two I had earmarked to leave went for a total of £6m - massive money in Ligue 2.  As I was expecting them to leave, I had a couple of replacements lined up but they were more about the potential than the present, which did leave me a little short.  Then, out of the blue, a bid came in for my captain and most important player which the board accepted at a mere £750k. I appealed to them to reconsider on the basis we could make FAR more (I was expecting at least £2.5-£3m). They agreed we could make more and then promptly sold him to Charleroi for £800k. I was furious but soldiered on. The problem was I had no real replacements scouted or shortlisted, so bought in 2 replacements hoping one would fill his shoes. They both did ok, but were nowhere near as effective in creating chances and our XG, Goals for and thus league position was dramatically hit. By November we were 15th, and board and dressing room confidence was dropping. I altered tactics to make us less dependent on a playmaker to create chances since it was a playmaker we lacked, but it didn't help and I was waiting for the dreaded "x points in the next 5 matches" message when, without having applied, 19th in Ligue Un Bordeaux offered me an interview.

I had their hands off when they offered it to me.

Having played about 8 league games with them, I have pulled them up to 17th and am starting to find a bit of form. Now in February, hopeful of a safe finish to the season and then pushing on for top half next.

This is the first time in about 7 years I have managed in a top division and am enjoying the difference. Hoping to keep this save going before starting rock bottom in FM22 and actually sticking with it this time!

 

What differences do you notice in a top division?

[Platinum]

6 hours ago, Brother Ben said:

Same here mate, i'm going to commit to a one save career.  I used to do it all the time in previous versions but like yourself I struggled in FM22.  Got a new laptop though so it gives me better options for a larger gameworld so hopefully it'll stick this time

I'm really looking forward to FM22 and hopefully an improved player interaction module.

[Brother Ben]

On 29/08/2021 at 20:23, Platinum said:

I'm really looking forward to FM22 and hopefully an improved player interaction module.

I hope so, anything that makes the game feel more real and immersive is the way forward.

 

[casualassassin]

Well...Tudelano gave me a 9 points in 5 matches target, and unfortunately I missed it and was sacked.

However, it did bring me to...

 

Vitoria Setubal in Portugal! I played the first match and won 2-1, and was drawn into the promotion groups. I won my first match 3-1 and hope to get moved up to the Liga 2. 

[Lesterfan_Cambiasso]

One thing thats not realistic is, say i set up a save as Man Utd.

Ill get Ronaldo for pre season and the start of the season.

In reality, he wasnt available for me for the first three games.

He should join you when he joined in real life

But obviously programming that would be a nightmare.

[Brother Ben]

13 hours ago, Lesterfan_Cambiasso said:

One thing thats not realistic is, say i set up a save as Man Utd.

Ill get Ronaldo for pre season and the start of the season.

In reality, he wasnt available for me for the first three games.

He should join you when he joined in real life

But obviously programming that would be a nightmare.

Yeah there's no "realistic" way around this unfortunately. 

They could set it up as a future transfer but what if you as the manager who started the save in June/July don't want to blow your budget on such a player, maybe you want youth etc. 

The most realistic way would be for the squads to be locked in place from the time you take over (June/July) but I imagine a few people would be a touch upset about not having old Ronny in their side.

[Brother Ben]

On 30/11/2020 at 19:35, Garlic said:

A note I would like to make is the ease with which, season after season, the staff is constantly changed until you have the best, often choosing members from all over the world.
I would like a sort of staff "cohesion" to be introduced as happens for players, so that the more time a staff works together, the better results will be obtained in the long run and, above all, if changed too often, they make the group lose cohesion. having total performance lower than their normal value.

I'm just reading back through the thread and this is honestly a great idea, I'd definitely submit it

https://community.sigames.com/forums/forum/353-football-manager-feature-requests-pcmac/

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Brother Ben

[thbroman]

After playing CM and FM for many years, I I am now a convert to lower-league play with non-numerical attributes, and am having a complete blast with it. And this is such an interesting thread -- thanks for all the great advice, such as this recent stuff about the "1-hour drive" rule.

So here are two questions about scouting. First, assuming that I do manage eventually to claw my way into becoming a fully professional team in, say, League 2 in England, surely by then the 1-hour rule ceases to be relevant, right? What then should be considered a realistic limit on scouting range? Does the game itself handle that decently by that point? In my opinion, it does: I have played many times before where one cannot go beyond the UK and Ireland as a standard range until making it to the Championship, or perhaps to League 1. To me, that feels right.

A second question concerns scouting packages. If a realistic approach to the game forbids using player search to just power through all possible players, what about using scouting packages? Don't those just increase what's available in player searches, and if that's correct, then they too would seem gamey and unrealistic, right? I ask here not because I feel that I need to be told what to do to play the game "correctly," but really just to make sure that I understand what scouting packages deliver.

Thanks

[Platinum]

20 minutes ago, thbroman said:

After playing CM and FM for many years, I I am now a convert to lower-league play with non-numerical attributes, and am having a complete blast with it. And this is such an interesting thread -- thanks for all the great advice, such as this recent stuff about the "1-hour drive" rule.

So here are two questions about scouting. First, assuming that I do manage eventually to claw my way into becoming a fully professional team in, say, League 2 in England, surely by then the 1-hour rule ceases to be relevant, right? What then should be considered a realistic limit on scouting range? Does the game itself handle that decently by that point? In my opinion, it does: I have played many times before where one cannot go beyond the UK and Ireland as a standard range until making it to the Championship, or perhaps to League 1. To me, that feels right.

A second question concerns scouting packages. If a realistic approach to the game forbids using player search to just power through all possible players, what about using scouting packages? Don't those just increase what's available in player searches, and if that's correct, then they too would seem gamey and unrealistic, right? I ask here not because I feel that I need to be told what to do to play the game "correctly," but really just to make sure that I understand what scouting packages deliver.

Thanks

Everyone has their way of playing so theirs no right or wrong way. I'll give you my opinions though.

 

1. I dont use this real but it makes sense to me. I would think the rule is not necessary when the club becomes professional AND the player has a full time contract. You can be a professional club before going into League 2.

2. That scouting rule is now outdated and no longer makes the game more realistic, but instead it just makes the game harder. The rule is a hangover from back when FM allowed players to search for any player in the game and find loads of info on them. Now player search only includes players in your scouting package/have been individually scouted which is realistic imo.

[thbroman]

41 minutes ago, Platinum said:

Everyone has their way of playing so theirs no right or wrong way. I'll give you my opinions though.

 

1. I dont use this real but it makes sense to me. I would think the rule is not necessary when the club becomes professional AND the player has a full time contract. You can be a professional club before going into League 2.

2. That scouting rule is now outdated and no longer makes the game more realistic, but instead it just makes the game harder. The rule is a hangover from back when FM allowed players to search for any player in the game and find loads of info on them. Now player search only includes players in your scouting package/have been individually scouted which is realistic imo.

I don't think the crucial issue is whether players are full-time, but whether scouts are. But yes, I agree. If the staff are full-time employees, you should be able to send them to wherever you can afford and your scouting range allows.

However, I still need guidance about packages and the player search function. Junkhead's original post in this thread made no mention of scouting packages, only about aiming to sign players that his scouts had already turned up. If that statement is taken in the strictest sense, then scouting packages would be off the table, right? And again, I'm not asking to be told what to do, but only whether scouting packages seem realistic.

Edited September 5, 2021 by thbroman

[Hovis Dexter]

11 minutes ago, thbroman said:

I don't think the crucial issue is whether players are full-time, but whether scouts are. But yes, I agree. If the staff are full-time employees, you should be able to send them to wherever you can afford and your scouting range allows.

However, I still need guidance about packages and the player search function. Junkhead's original post in this thread made no mention of scouting packages, only about aiming to sign players that his scouts had already turned up. If that statement is taken in the strictest sense, then scouting packages would be off the table. And again, I'm not asking to be told what to do, but only whether scouting packages seem realistic from the standpoint of trying to play realistically.

I would agree with @Platinum when he said "Now player search only includes players in your scouting package/have been individually scouted which is realistic imo."

If you limit your search players to Scouting>>Players>>Scouted, Scouting>>Players>>Analysed, and Scouting>>Players>>Recent and do not use Scouting>>Players>>Search you will only find players who have been found by either your scouts or analysts.

[thbroman]

18 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said:

I would agree with @Platinum when he said "Now player search only includes players in your scouting package/have been individually scouted which is realistic imo."

If you limit your search players to Scouting>>Players>>Scouted, Scouting>>Players>>Analysed, and Scouting>>Players>>Recent and do not use Scouting>>Players>>Search you will only find players who have been found by either your scouts or analysts.

Right. That makes complete sense. Thanks.

[Brother Ben]

21 hours ago, thbroman said:

After playing CM and FM for many years, I I am now a convert to lower-league play with non-numerical attributes, and am having a complete blast with it. And this is such an interesting thread -- thanks for all the great advice, such as this recent stuff about the "1-hour drive" rule.

So here are two questions about scouting. First, assuming that I do manage eventually to claw my way into becoming a fully professional team in, say, League 2 in England, surely by then the 1-hour rule ceases to be relevant, right? What then should be considered a realistic limit on scouting range? Does the game itself handle that decently by that point? In my opinion, it does: I have played many times before where one cannot go beyond the UK and Ireland as a standard range until making it to the Championship, or perhaps to League 1. To me, that feels right.

A second question concerns scouting packages. If a realistic approach to the game forbids using player search to just power through all possible players, what about using scouting packages? Don't those just increase what's available in player searches, and if that's correct, then they too would seem gamey and unrealistic, right? I ask here not because I feel that I need to be told what to do to play the game "correctly," but really just to make sure that I understand what scouting packages deliver.

Thanks

The one-hour drive "rule" for me goes like this

Amateur - 30 min

Semi-Pro - 1 hour

Pro - Sign nationally but of course be mindful of local minimum wage and use SWYCT (scout where you can tour) and/or SYB (scout your borders)

The biggest take away is that you will know what feels right, just follow your instincts. 

In terms of the player search I've not used it for nearly two decades so I don't really know how it works but I'll say this, I never feel like I'm missing out on players.  A list of players with no context would not change that for me.  I wouldn't even know what to do with that list.  Do I ask my scout to just randomly scout them all?  I pay him to do that.

In my mind I thought the scouting packages allowed you to return better results from your scouts for areas you already have knowledge of.

Other opinions are of course available

Edited September 6, 2021 by Brother Ben

[Brother Ben]

I've had a few people on here and twitter ask me what being "LLM" is all about and i'm in no way an expert but for me LLM isn't just about the "rules" its a commitment to playing realistically. 

I've had a lot of saves ruined because I knew something I'd done wasn't realistic, maybe a move to a club that was too high reputation or I'd unwittingly found a match engine exploit etc.  Those saves ended there.  It would have niggled at me otherwise. 

An LLM/LLaMa would end their save there.

We can debate individual parts of the guidelines all day long but the core of LLM is playing the game in an honest way.

[George_84]

I personally feel you can find your players in two ways. Either by manually sending your scouts to nearby clubs (one hour drive) or by getting a package and letting your scouts do the rest. It depends on how your taking on scouting, more hands on, or more from the background. 

If you are the kind of manager that likes to go through the team reports of nearby clubs and then order your scouts to take a deeper look into the interesting players, the one hour drive is the way to go. But then I also wouldn't use a scouting package as it doesn't fit this way of searching for players. I do sign players that came on trial on their asking. If they decide to come on trial, they also consider to come live nearby the club or make the trip. The other exception is players from a parent club. You can ask for players on loan and I somehow think it is realistic the parent club rents an apartment for 2 youngsters for a season to be able to develop at your club.

But the other way is giving responsability to your scouts. You get the package, put the head scout or director in charge of the assignments and the only way to give them a bit of guidance is by the short scouting assignments. This way you get suggestions from your scouts on players to scout but you don't suggest them yourself. They are given a budget to search for new players. This can be implemented in lower leagues or the premier league, as long as you have a budget for scouting.

Either way seems realistic to me.

[thbroman]

This is really great advice. Thanks to both George_84 and Brother Ben.

I'm about to be fired from my first job -- Spennymoor Town, in the Vanarama North division -- so I feel that I am well on my way!

[Junkhead]

1 hour ago, thbroman said:

This is really great advice. Thanks to both George_84 and Brother Ben.

I'm about to be fired from my first job -- Spennymoor Town, in the Vanarama North division -- so I feel that I am well on my way!

The first sacking is always special, welcome. 

 

[Platinum]

On 06/09/2021 at 13:27, Brother Ben said:

I've had a lot of saves ruined because I knew something I'd done wasn't realistic, maybe a move to a club that was too high reputation or I'd unwittingly found a match engine exploit etc.  Those saves ended there.

I havent had either of these happen to me but I personally wouldn't quit because I found an exploit. For two reasons though:
1. I dont read any threads to do with tactics so I am not even aware of what is and isnt an exploit
2. It is part of the game 'world' and too subjective imo

 

[Platinum]

On 05/06/2021 at 18:44, Platinum said:

Just an update, I'm currently 4th in the VNS with Oxford City and I'm in April but I'm hoping that there's still a small chance we could win the league as otherwise it's a playoff place and those winning the playoffs needs luck. My DOF has bought in some great players and I was just offered a 2 year contract extension. I think we are doing great for my first season. My DoF has helped me transform the team with signings throughout the season and I'm now happy that we have the personnel to play the type of football I want.

Also we just got my first youth intake and I've honestly got some excellent players, one of whom is already ready to start so I'm hoping they can push us to have a strong end to the season. My long term plan is to make about half the team full of youth graduates with some excellent additions that I bring in from outside the club. 

So I'm till in the Vanarama South and the player I mentioned from my academy who is ready to start has been been starting and is a top player at only 16 years old. Will defo become a premier league player. He has recently got a super agent who is the agent of the likes of Gareth Bale, Harry Kane, Henderson and Trent Alexander-Arnold, so Im sure he will be forcing through a move soon!

Not sure what the rules are with showing a screenshot of a regen player but if anyone is interested ill post him here

[Brother Ben]

5 minutes ago, Platinum said:

I havent had either of these happen to me but I personally wouldn't quit because I found an exploit. For two reasons though:
1. I dont read any threads to do with tactics so I am not even aware of what is and isnt an exploit
2. It is part of the game 'world' and too subjective imo

 

I’m talking big and obvious like scoring off every other corner.

It would bug me even if it wasn’t my fault 

[Platinum]

Just now, Brother Ben said:

I’m talking big and obvious like scoring off every other corner.

It would bug me even if it wasn’t my fault 

Ah yeah I get you. Yah i think that would bug me too

[Platinum]

A feature request I made that I think people here will be interested in. Please upvote the request it if you agree.

 

[Brother Ben]

21 hours ago, Platinum said:

A feature request I made that I think people here will be interested in. Please upvote the request it if you agree.

 

Solid request, makes perfect sense.  Can't see anyone being able to argue against it really  

[AlexJames]

Just discovered this thread, find it fascinating to read what rules/ limitations players put on themselves in order to make the game more realistic. I certainly do the same, but maybe not quite to the same level as some I've read on here.

I'm currently still playing my first (and only) FM19 save, a Journeyman (no badges, sunday league rep) save that took me from Albion Rovers in Scottish League 2 to Barnet (my old local team, and ultimate original endgame goal of the save, but achieved earlier than anticipated) to current team Sheff Wed in 2032. I'm now in the Premier League, so realism has gone out the window somewhat, however. Plan to spend a couple years in Italy/ Germany before retiring and maybe moving on to an LLM save on FM22.

In terms of realism/ rules, I mostly stick to the following:

• Wage structure - I like to keep a general wage structure amongst my squad, with captain/ more experienced players earning highest. i.e. If a potential new signing/ prospect who has never played first team football before wants more than my CM that has played over 200 games and been at the club for multiple years, negotiations are swiftly abandoned. 
• Tactics - no crazy 3-1-3-2-1 experimental formations in lower leagues - purely 4-4-2, 4-1-4-1 or slight variations thereof. Maybe this is an outdated philosophy, but still one I stick with. Also, my approach to games is generally based on realistic expectations depending on the opposition - even if my chances of victory might be enhanced by an alternative approach (i.e. no exploits). If I'm an underdog playing away, I'd play more cautiously, if I'm a favourite at home, more positive. No "Very Attacking, high line" against Man City at the Etihad, for example.
• Player Roles - similar to above, no crazy Trequartista or Ramdeuter roles in my lower league teams - bog-standard CB(D), CM(S), AF(A) all the way.
• Staff - I mostly advertise for vacant staff positions, utilize staff favorites/ recommendations or - preferably - promote from within (i.e. retired former players etc.), regardless of skill level/ stats (most of my previous coaching staff at Albion Rovers are now my U-18 coaching staff at Sheff Wed).

I found the discussion on rules/ limitations on scouting/ player searching earlier in this thread quite interesting, as this is something I haven't previously considered, but may do in future. I do feel like the transfer/ loan/ free agent list is a real thing, though, accessible to any club in any league, so would probably at the very least allow this kind of search.

Just playing devils advocate - and going slightly meta - for a moment, however - if any one of us were to somehow actually find ourselves as an LLM - surely we would all use Football Manager as a tool? Plenty of real life clubs have already admitted to using the database for scouting/ research etc.. In which case technically we should also allow ourselves access to it in our saves for the same purposes...??

Edited September 23, 2021 by AlexJames

[Platinum]

On 22/09/2021 at 15:17, Brother Ben said:

Solid request, makes perfect sense.  Can't see anyone being able to argue against it really  

Thanks! Fingers crossed it's in FM22 haha (i  know highly unlikely really).  In the mean time, like most here I only hire staff from job postings or if another staff member has recommended someone.