info provided Unrealistically low dribble numbers

[Obamayang]

No pkm file because this doesn't really need it, you can replicate it just by simulating a few games.

Average dribble numbers on players from a league on full detail will have extremely low average dribbles. Basically noone has average dribble higher than 1. Even guys like Messi and Hazard have less than 1 average dribble per game. This doesn't happen if it's being simulated on "None" detail.

[abcdf]

Yes, absolutely. I see players like Neymar having an average of something like 0.3 dribbles per match. Definitely an issue.

[Obamayang]

21 hours ago, abcdf said:

Yes, absolutely. I see players like Neymar having an average of something like 0.3 dribbles per match. Definitely an issue.

I'm not 100% sure whether it's a stat display issue or a bug with the ME itself. I am more inclined to believe it's the former (could be completely wrong though just a guess.) I have made two observations:

1. Multiple times I've seen someone dribble pass an opponent in ME but dribble stays at 0.

2. The dribble stat should be equal to the amount of tackles missed by opposing team (at least that's how it works on whoscored.com, each missed tackles gives whoever it failed against a dribble) but if you compare the tackle failed and dribbles they are completely different in FM.

Edited November 29, 2020 by Obamayang

[abcdf]

Don't know, would be useful to hear someone from SI on the topic

[kertiek]

i was watching comprehensive games trying to catch any dribbles and they rarely attempt them, tried to report this last week but never got an answer from si games, mbappe only getting 2 dribbles per games is ridiculous.

 

i also think this is linked with the quantity of crosses and blocked crosses the matches get, if the players arent losing their defender by dribbling, is kinda obvious that their cross/pass is going to end up blocked

 

 

 

[Jack Joyce]

On 29/11/2020 at 00:32, Obamayang said:

I'm not 100% sure whether it's a stat display issue or a bug with the ME itself. I am more inclined to believe it's the former (could be completely wrong though just a guess.) I have made two observations:

1. Multiple times I've seen someone dribble pass an opponent in ME but dribble stays at 0.

2. The dribble stat should be equal to the amount of tackles missed by opposing team (at least that's how it works on whoscored.com, each missed tackles gives whoever it failed against a dribble) but if you compare the tackle failed and dribbles they are completely different in FM.

Dribbling as a statistic is very difficult to objectively track in the AI since it's a very subjective thing in reality. Our dribbling stat is fairly unreliable and we do want to improve it in the future, but it requires a significant amount of time to find the right solution. We'd be unlikely to use failed tackles in this case since you can in theory attempt a tackle on a player that isn't attempting to dribble past you. 

So the issue is just with the stat itself and it's on our roadmap to improve in the future. In the ME itself there's a lot of dribbling that doesn't get tracked in the stat so we think this is purely a stats limitation, not a ME one.

[kertiek]

1 hour ago, Jack Joyce said:

Dribbling as a statistic is very difficult to objectively track in the AI since it's a very subjective thing in reality. Our dribbling stat is fairly unreliable and we do want to improve it in the future, but it requires a significant amount of time to find the right solution. We'd be unlikely to use failed tackles in this case since you can in theory attempt a tackle on a player that isn't attempting to dribble past you. 

So the issue is just with the stat itself and it's on our roadmap to improve in the future. In the ME itself there's a lot of dribbling that doesn't get tracked in the stat so we think this is purely a stats limitation, not a ME one.

i dont agree with this, in my save with ajax in fm20 i played with that team from 2019 upto 2045, somewhere in 2025+- in that club i even got to eventually buy mbappe and develop a lot of regens that won the player of the year, golden ball and etc 

this is the dribbling stat of the last match i played in fm20 in 3/11/2045

 

 

you can clearly see that both of my inside forwards are doing dribbles, actually attempting skills/feints and getting past their defenders, these are the attributes of  both of them

 

 

take special attention to the stat drbpg ( dribbles per game ) both being 4+ as average in league and even in the champions league games.. in the game am showing at the top thiago got 9 dribbles in only one game, i have never seen more than 3 or 4 in fm21 even with mbappe after 3 seasons in my team, am talking about the player actually leaving his defender behind, not only looking at the stat, because is been noticeable that the stats in fm21 are not registering them accurately

 

look now the stats from mbappe in fm21 with my arsenal save in the year 2026, am showing the stats from the previous season because currently the date in the game is 26 of july in the middle of the pre season with no competitive games yet, the last season my team won everything, premier, fa cup, carabao, champions and community shield.

 

 

 

i understand that maybe there is a problem currently with the game not getting the stats correctly, but after been watching a lot of matches in "highlight mode" full match, the players in very low instances actually attempt and win a dribble, they always get tackled on or the defender is glued to them and eventually either steals the ball or the attacker tries a bad cross that ends up being blocked, is very rare to actually see a good enough player doing effective dribbles and getting past opponent defenders in the same way i was seeing it in fm20, this is not a "stat" problem, because the attackers are not getting past the opposition defenders even after all the team instructions asking them to do so.

 

both saves are using exactly the same formation, the tactic has a few tweaks to make it work in fm21, but both have "dribble more" and team instruction "run at defence" .. they dont do it.

Edited December 2, 2020 by kertiek

[kertiek]

when i speak of dribbles being made, i mean some of the plays that u can see in the highlights bellow, some of these kind of direct attacks i was seeing in fm20, are the examples that i cant replicate or achieve anything close to it in fm21, even when having skilled players to make it happen.

 

these are plays from the match i spoke in my previous post, in fm20 only focusing in dribbles.

 

 

i been playing the game for a while (pic bellow), i even remember the old sliders where u had to do a math theorem with attacking, creativity and closing down sliders from 0 to 20 when setting up a tactic, i been always enjoying the game even when there were a few downsides of it, me reporting this "problem" is not in any way trying to give you guys a bad time or to troll, is because i enjoy the game and i want to see the best version of it, the passing play and off movement from the ball improved from fm20? yes, but the direct play took a hit, am not saying that one thing is directly related to the other , just trying to state that something that was there direct play and dribble past the defenders, now is missing and this is not just a "stat" miss count thing.

 

(i bought fm2014 in other plataform)

if u need any kind of help with examples or anything i would gladly help.

Edited December 2, 2020 by kertiek

[Jack Joyce]

The high number of blocked crosses is a known issue we're looking in to, but we don't currently believe this is caused by a lack of dribbling. The number of tackles full backs are making is very very high in general, and our playtesting feedback internally has been that dribbling is taken on too often rather than not enough.

We're working on improvements to wide play in general to encourage more recycling of play and less hitting the ball against the defender next to you.

[spiritdonkey]

2 часа назад, Jack Joyce сказал:

We're working on improvements to wide play in general to encourage more recycling of play and less hitting the ball against the defender next to you.

Thank you and wish a good luck!) 

Are we talking about improvements that will be appplied already to FM21? 

[kertiek]

i think si games are looking at the same problem but from the other point of view, kind of like am looking at a glass of water an am just referring to the half empty of it and they are looking the glass as half full.

 

half full: full backs doing too many tackles and this could be resulting in the attackers with an increased amount of failed attacks in the wings either by losing the ball due to a sucessfull tackle and/or getting the cross  blocked because the defender was glued to the attacker because he was unable to dribble him..... if the fullbacks have a ratio of 60% of successful tackles  , but they are attempting way too many, this could mean that the wing attacker would need to do a lot of more attempts in dribbling to be successful due to an imbalance in the quantity of tackling vs dribbling.

the same problem could be in the inversed situation .. what would happen if attackers attempt too many dribbles in comparison to the tackles being made by defenders? due to the quantity probable the attackers would own the wing play just by numbers of attempts.

half empty: currently the wing play is able to create chances mostly by passes or through balls, but i rarely see any decent clear chances done by direct play / dribbling. i dont mean that they dont happen, just that they are less common than in fm20 .

why is this happening? i didnt know. but the comment that @Jack Joyce wrote about fullbacks and tackles  could probably explain one of the reasons of why this is happening. in my post i was just trying to explain that the number of successful dribbles being made per game is low in comparison to fm20 and this was meant to be about dribbling in the gameplay, not just the dribbling stat because i noticed that in fm21 some of the stats are not as reliable as before, you can see this  in other bug reports people are writing. (examples added at the bottom)

the result i expect to see if they reduce the amount of tackles done by wide defenders  , is that the wing attackers should be able lose their markers at an increased ratio than now  because they will get fewer instances of losing the ball to defenders due to tackles  and  this could see an indirect increment of successful dribbles and hopefully  get a more balanced gameplay on the wings as a result.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Obamayang]

You could be right but I am quite sure there is also are stat display bugs. I have just seen another occasion where a player dribbled past a defender, even the commentary at the bottom said so but I check the statistic and no dribble is recorded. Next time I'll make sure to save the match and upload the pkm.

Edited December 3, 2020 by Obamayang

[Obamayang]

Okay I've uploaded a .pkm, check the following timestamps:

01:50 Neymar dribbles around a tackle, commentary says "Neymar jinks past Disasi"

03:15 Mbappe dribbles past a guy, commentary says "Mbappe dribbles past Onyekuru"

Yet at half time player statistics both Mbappe and Neymar has 0 dribbles.

If you keep watching past that I'm sure you'll find plenty more cases of dribbles not being counted.

Even at full time Neymar's stats still shows 0 dribbles.

dribble stat bug.pkm

[Strubbel94]

I can give you my observatiosn with multiple stats that only appear in the leaguesof teh country you play in.
I'm playing Hannover96 in the 1st season (2nd division in Germany):

Now some Screenshots will follow, for dribblings, clear cut chances and key tackles.
I have the other leagues on playable, but not on fully simmed, so maybe it is an issue with the ME or how the ME counts certain stats when 100% simmed.

PS: Would like to hear a statement how somethign like this could even happen.