My Everton crisis?

[ReadingFan82]

Hello whoever might read this.

Just have a few queries and want to have a bit of a vent on my fortunes with this game since its came out proper. I have a save with Everton and I am in my 3rd season, finished 5th in the 1st and 4th in the 2nd, and was feeling pretty good about the state my team was in, all things considered. I have what I would consider to be a pretty good squad for a team that wants to challenge for European football, with my board wanting me to qualify for the Euro Cup this season.

I played with a 41212, with 2 set ups, 1 I played against sides I thought would be better than my own and  tough away games and 1 I would try to use against teams I thought I was better than and should try and have more control over the game, but I did definitely have trouble finding a way to get past sides I thought I was better than, lower half teams at home and away for example. After using this from about halfway through my first season, having a bit of a wobble near the end of my second season, I decided it was time to change it up, as it didn't seem to be getting the best out of my players. My head was also turned away from the 41212 as soon as I knew I could get Ousmane Dembele on a free from Barcelona, which I thought was just too good to pass up on.

I think West Brom at home was the last game I played in the beta before the full game came out, and as you can see, things haven't been great since then.

My team also has clear issues seeing games out, throwing away both Benfica and Spurs away at home despite leading 2-0 in both games with 10/15 minutes left.

Has anyone else seen their good fortunes completely vanish on the full games release or is this just unique to me?

My team just doesn't seem to do anything at all. For a team with such good players I seem to create nothing from open play at all throughout games, only seeming to really have half chances from set pieces. My team feels like it is so easy to play against, not just on the counter, which I understand, but when my opponents have the ball my team just doesn't seem to get anywhere near them. From corners opponents put the ball in and my players don't even really challenge, they have throw ins by my box and one or two passes and there through on goal or put hopeful a cross into the box and my team just doesn't seem to be able to do anything but let the opponents tap the ball past my keeper. My team seems to have no resilience whatsoever against the opposition despite me having a pretty good set of players to my use in defense an in goal.

All my set pieces, attacking and defending, are still on the default, but would be quite happy to hear suggestions as I've not been great from either.

Am I just being a bit reactionary, maybe getting FM'd here and if I wait things will get better and I will turn a corner for me? In the 2 games I've lost so far this season I've had far better XG than both my opponents and have under performed it so if I keep at it will things just improve for me?    

I still have £45 million and £200k on wages if anyone sees blatant holes in my squad that need filling with a few new players I could try and bring them in if really needed, and would also be open to letting a few go if anyone thinks I may be overstocked in certain areas, particularly in the midfield.

[Experienced Defender]

I see 3 different tactics and even 3 different formations in your post, and each has some obvious flaws IMHO. However, I unfortunately don't have enough time to go through all of them. So can you please tell me which one do you want to focus on primarily - the 4312 or narrow diamond or 4123 wide? 

[Sneaky Pete]

I'll have a crack at your 4-1-2-3 first, as there are a few things that catch my eye about it.

First of all, in terms of the tactical setup overall: You're on an attacking mentality with a top-heavy formation, with a ton of extremely aggressive pressing TIs. You've paired this with an IFa and a PFa, both of which are roles that look to run into space. What space are they going to run into? Your mentality + TIs simply doesn't fit with your roles and duties. It also doesn't really fit your players as Dembélé is neither fit nor hard-working, so he's fairly likely to leave holes in your press.

I also don't like your midfield roles. I would swap the BBM and APa, and change the APa into a CMa or Meza. I really don't think two playmakers is doing you any good here. Additionally, if you do this and add "Look for Underlap Left", that gives you two different types of attacking movement patterns to score from, rather than just overlapping on both flanks and yeeting crosses into the box.

Finally, your overlap TIs don't make any sense. Your WBa (a role that I think you could consider switching to an FBa) will inherently overlap your IWs. On the other flank, you want your IFa to get into the box/make runs, but Overlap Right tells him to do the exact opposite by holding up the ball for your WBs.

I really don't think your setup is all that far off in terms of roles and duties, but it is far off in terms of matching roles and duties to mentality and TIs.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Sneaky Pete

[ReadingFan82]

10 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

I see 3 different tactics and even 3 different formations in your post, and each has some obvious flaws IMHO. However, I unfortunately don't have enough time to go through all of them. So can you please tell me which one do you want to focus on primarily - the 4312 or narrow diamond or 4123 wide? 

That's completely fair enough, the one I am trying to focus most on is the 4123 wide now so any help with that would be really appreciated.

[ReadingFan82]

8 hours ago, Sneaky Pete said:

I'll have a crack at your 4-1-2-3 first, as there are a few things that catch my eye about it.

First of all, in terms of the tactical setup overall: You're on an attacking mentality with a top-heavy formation, with a ton of extremely aggressive pressing TIs. You've paired this with an IFa and a PFa, both of which are roles that look to run into space. What space are they going to run into? Your mentality + TIs simply doesn't fit with your roles and duties. It also doesn't really fit your players as Dembélé is neither fit nor hard-working, so he's fairly likely to leave holes in your press.

I also don't like your midfield roles. I would swap the BBM and APa, and change the APa into a CMa or Meza. I really don't think two playmakers is doing you any good here. Additionally, if you do this and add "Look for Underlap Left", that gives you two different types of attacking movement patterns to score from, rather than just overlapping on both flanks and yeeting crosses into the box.

Finally, your overlap TIs don't make any sense. Your WBa (a role that I think you could consider switching to an FBa) will inherently overlap your IWs. On the other flank, you want your IFa to get into the box/make runs, but Overlap Right tells him to do the exact opposite by holding up the ball for your WBs.

I really don't think your setup is all that far off in terms of roles and duties, but it is far off in terms of matching roles and duties to mentality and TIs.

Do you think something like a deep lying forward would be more appropriate for my set up? I have in the past few games tried lowering the pressing, particularly against teams that I feel quite happy to let have the ball due to the fact I don't think their players are going to punish me all too much due to a general lack of quality.

I've swapped the Apa for a Meza, should the Meza be on the side with IFat or the IWsu? Also I'll give that a go with my left full back. Should I just leave the overlap/under lap blank for the right side due to having the IFat on that side?

[Sneaky Pete]

45 minutes ago, ReadingFan82 said:

Do you think something like a deep lying forward would be more appropriate for my set up? I have in the past few games tried lowering the pressing, particularly against teams that I feel quite happy to let have the ball due to the fact I don't think their players are going to punish me all too much due to a general lack of quality.

I've swapped the Apa for a Meza, should the Meza be on the side with IFat or the IWsu? Also I'll give that a go with my left full back. Should I just leave the overlap/under lap blank for the right side due to having the IFat on that side?

I would have the Meza on the same side as the IWs (with Look for Underlap toggled on) and I would turn off Look for Overlap on the side where you have your IFa.

A DLF, CFs, F9, or PFs could all work, depending on the players you have available and what exactly you want from them. IIRC Calvert-Lewin isn't particularly creative or technical so probably PFs or maybe DLFs at a stretch.

[Experienced Defender]

13 hours ago, ReadingFan82 said:

That's completely fair enough, the one I am trying to focus most on is the 4123 wide now so any help with that would be really appreciated.

Okay, here is what I personally see as (potentially) problematic:

- both AP and IF on attack duties on the right side (not just it's defensively unsound but is also not helpful attacking-wise, because you need to think how roles and duties should create and utilize space in an optimal way, rather than just adding more attack duties without much sense)

- on the left flank, the combo of IWsu and WBat is good, but the problem is that the BBM is not the type of role that gives you optimal balance (again from both defensive and attacking perspectives)

In essence, when it comes to roles and duties, you are basically making the same kind of mistake that most people do - trying to make yourself "dangerous" in attack by adding more attack duties and/or attack-minded roles than would be optimal or necessary. While such approach may work for some people or some (types of) teams, it's rather on a temporary basis and in most cases turns out to be inconsistent in the end. That's why I always insist on balance, balance and balance 

I cannot comment your instructions atm, because it's hard for me to figure out what's actually our intended style of play? If you tell me what kind of football you want to play, then I'll be able to offer some further suggestions 

[ReadingFan82]

9 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Okay, here is what I personally see as (potentially) problematic:

- both AP and IF on attack duties on the right side (not just it's defensively unsound but is also not helpful attacking-wise, because you need to think how roles and duties should create and utilize space in an optimal way, rather than just adding more attack duties without much sense)

- on the left flank, the combo of IWsu and WBat is good, but the problem is that the BBM is not the type of role that gives you optimal balance (again from both defensive and attacking perspectives)

In essence, when it comes to roles and duties, you are basically making the same kind of mistake that most people do - trying to make yourself "dangerous" in attack by adding more attack duties and/or attack-minded roles than would be optimal or necessary. While such approach may work for some people or some (types of) teams, it's rather on a temporary basis and in most cases turns out to be inconsistent in the end. That's why I always insist on balance, balance and balance 

I cannot comment your instructions atm, because it's hard for me to figure out what's actually our intended style of play? If you tell me what kind of football you want to play, then I'll be able to offer some further suggestions 

First of all, thanks for replying.

- Do you think I would be better off swapping the 2 CM's around or changing the roles of them completely to add more balance?

- Again, do you think I would be better of with the B2B here or a play maker of some sort?

What would you say is the best way to create balance for my team with player roles? Is it as sample as having 4/3/3 off each duty in same way, with these split across the pitch in a way to try and get balance across the team or is it more complex then that? 

To be honest I'm having the same problem. I kinda had a good grasp of what I was doing on this game when it was still in beta but since the full game has came out I'm kinda having a complete nightmare. Whether or not those 2 things are actually linked of I'm just not as good at the game as I first thought I was is another matter entirely though. At first I thought all I needed was a way to try and control possession and dominate the lesser sides in the division, ones that I thought I had a better side than, as I kinda had a system that I thought could deal with the bigger sides relatively well. But since the full game has came out I've kinda just had a complete nightmare. I think what I want is a tactic where I keep a hold of the ball, play out from the back, play quite fast, press high up the pitch and what not, essentially a cross between a tiki-taka like tactic and a gegenpress one. Whenever I try and make something that looks like what I want however I have no success whatsoever, and have no idea if what I want to try and create can even be achieved with the set of players I have. I know that's not much help at all, but I usually just use this forum as a place to vent about how bad I am at this game

Edited December 2, 2020 by ReadingFan82

[Experienced Defender]

15 hours ago, ReadingFan82 said:

Do you think I would be better off swapping the 2 CM's around

Even if you swap them around, a couple tweaks elsewhere would still be needed. Most obviously the left fullback's role/duty (WB on attack) would need to be changed (i.e. toned down). 

 

15 hours ago, ReadingFan82 said:

Again, do you think I would be better of with the B2B here or a play maker of some sort?

You already have a playmaker in the form of the AP. Of course, you can play with 2 playmakers, but then you need to have a clear idea of why and how you want to use them. 

 

15 hours ago, ReadingFan82 said:

What would you say is the best way to create balance for my team with player roles? Is it as sample as having 4/3/3 off each duty in same way, with these split across the pitch in a way to try and get balance across the team or is it more complex then that?

There is no "best" way, because that also depends on the style of football you want to play. A balanced tactical setup can be created in a number of ways, but they vary from one playing style to another.

For example, AP on attack duty as a playmaking role is a lot more suited for fast-transition styles (e.g. fast attacking football or counter) than it is for possession football. But I don't know if that's what you want. That's why it's important to tell me (us) what type of football you want to play (but also make sure your players are suitable for such style). 

Thankfully, Everton is a good team, which makes it easier to create a good tactic for any type of football. 

[ReadingFan82]

22 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Even if you swap them around, a couple tweaks elsewhere would still be needed. Most obviously the left fullback's role/duty (WB on attack) would need to be changed (i.e. toned down). 

 

You already have a playmaker in the form of the AP. Of course, you can play with 2 playmakers, but then you need to have a clear idea of why and how you want to use them. 

 

There is no "best" way, because that also depends on the style of football you want to play. A balanced tactical setup can be created in a number of ways, but they vary from one playing style to another.

For example, AP on attack duty as a playmaking role is a lot more suited for fast-transition styles (e.g. fast attacking football or counter) than it is for possession football. But I don't know if that's what you want. That's why it's important to tell me (us) what type of football you want to play (but also make sure your players are suitable for such style). 

Thankfully, Everton is a good team, which makes it easier to create a good tactic for any type of football. 

I'll give that a go with the left back and see if it helps a bit as you say.

I want my team to play a fast,  counter attacking style of play, that withholds opponents attacking pressure before quickly breaking on them when we win the ball to spring effective counter attacks. However, I'm not quite sure how to do this with my team and how to do this against smaller sides who are likely to try and play a similar way against me themselves, as when trying this against them I often have games that go the 90 minutes without a single highlight.

Everton is a good team, which is why it makes it all the more frustrating that while I'm expected to challenge for a European place 13 games into the season I'm 16th, 2 point above the relegation zone. Luckily I'm in 2022 with the winter world cup and have organised a lot of friendlies in the break to try and figure out what works for my team, whats left of it anyway, and what doesn't.

[ReadingFan82]

On 01/12/2020 at 02:28, Sneaky Pete said:

I would have the Meza on the same side as the IWs (with Look for Underlap toggled on) and I would turn off Look for Overlap on the side where you have your IFa.

A DLF, CFs, F9, or PFs could all work, depending on the players you have available and what exactly you want from them. IIRC Calvert-Lewin isn't particularly creative or technical so probably PFs or maybe DLFs at a stretch.

Thank you very much I'll definitely give this a go in my next few games. I've gotten to the winter world cup break in 2022 and am not playing too well at the minute but I've arranged some friendlies to try and play myself into some form and see what works and what doesn't. I'll let you know how I get on. 

[Experienced Defender]

7 hours ago, ReadingFan82 said:

I want my team to play a fast,  counter attacking style of play, that withholds opponents attacking pressure before quickly breaking on them when we win the ball to spring effective counter attacks. However, I'm not quite sure how to do this with my team and how to do this against smaller sides who are likely to try and play a similar way against me themselves, as when trying this against them I often have games that go the 90 minutes without a single highlight

(Pure) counter-attacking football for a team like Everton is probably not going to work as the main strategy, simply because they are not an underdog team and therefore you cannot expect the opposition to allow you enough space to take advantage of on the counter (apart from a few top sides). But counter-attacks can be used as an auxiliary tactical weapon under a different style of play, so that's something you may want to think about.