No chances and no goals... ridiculous!

[Rittings]

I have a really good team. I got promoted with Wovles to Prem (via play-offs) then relegated (i signed some decent players but obviously not good enough). I signed players like Diogo, D'Allessandro, Richuitti... amongst other really good players. I thought I would pee the championship and be promoted by xmas...

I am looking at relegation. My team morale isn't bad, and they play ok together. The average ratings are always around 7.3 a game for my players. But here's the rub...

I average about 4 or 5 chances a game. I have tried more attacking tactics to no avail. I have even tried more defensive ones... no good either. I saved my game and played 10 games on one tactic, 10 games on another, and so on so forth... but nothing.

What is this game about???? Has the AI worked out how to combat the 4-4-2??? And so I must change to something else? Isn't that a bit ridiculous??

I am sure that after years and years in charge that Fergie would change to a 5-3-2 because the other managers worked out how to exploit the 442 system... NOT!!!!

Come on guys!! GET bloody real!...

This game has seriously lost the plot.

Anyone else finding this?

[deejay10]

I am finding that my 4-4-2 is working excellently. I am in my 2nd season with Juventus (a top class team I know), but i managed to win the league title in my first season, with no new 1st team signings, beating the likes of AC Milan, Inter, and Roma, and only a few youth players signed like bolzoni and santon.

In my first season I always created a decent amount of chances, but was less clinical, relying on Del Piero to score all my goals. But I think that was due to some of my strikers like Amauri taking long settling in and gelling, and Trezeguet not having motivation to play for a manager of my reputation.

At the start I had to rely on a lot of 1-0 victories, with an adsolutely rock solid defence, and one clinical striker.

Now im in my 2nd season, and goals are absolutely flying in, I have yet to score less than 2 in a game, converting a lot more chances, with goals coming in lots of different ways and different goalscores.

I play 2 variations of my 4-4-2, a standard flat one in tough games, with an ML and MR, and a more attacking one with an AML and AMR in games I am expected to win.

However I do tweak my team and player instructions a lot from game to game, depending on the opposition, the players I have selected, and how the game is going once its started.

So maybe stick with your 4-4-2, but tweak it according to the way a match is going, and concentrate of being difficult to beat at the start maybe, before becoming more expansive when you have more creative attacking players that have settled into your system ?

[gyxi]

Agree! I don't know if it's due to the AI having lured the 442 formation. But I do find it extremely hard to make a tactic that actually works with your team. I, like you, have been trying over and over, but only with little result. FM08 had a bit of the same, but not this much.

Surely, it has to be realistic and creating the perfect tactic isn't easy IRL. But this is too much... it's compromising the joy of playing the game. But then again, when you do create the perfect tactic for your team (if it's possible?), then it is just much more satisfying to you.

[moj]

Read the TTF thread and the guide provided in it.

[Rittings]

So maybe stick with your 4-4-2, but tweak it according to the way a match is going, and concentrate of being difficult to beat at the start maybe, before becoming more expansive when you more creative attacking players that have settled into your system ?

Dude I think you failed to notice that I got promoted with Wovles, then purchased quality, then got relegated, and now struggling in Championship with absolute quality throughout my side.

I have tried to blend youth with experience. I have Andy Carrol and Sylvan Ebanks-Blake up top.

Ruchietti and D'Allessandro as my "wingers". David Jones as MC (Attacking) and Karl Henry as MC (Defensive).

Elokobi at LB, Leon Anderrson (Andreason?? Fulham player?) at DC, Stearman DC and Diogo DR.

Murray or Hennessey in Goals (depending on who is in form...)

I also have a lot of great players in the squad. Alejandro Gomez, Peter Whittingham, Kevin Foley, Quedrue, Some Czech winger who looks ace, and some youngsters (to name but a few).

Whilst I have signed many players, it has been over the course of a few seasons, and there are only one or two players who have yet to "gel". One of the players who haven't gelled yet is Peter Whitingham... who I signed in the first season and played 2 whole seasons for me before I signed a new midfielder!!! What is going on there????? It's not even like he's a foreign national trying to blend in!!!

I am totally frustrated at a game that cost me nearly 40 quid!! (more if you count petrol to get to my local game store!!!). In these desperate times (when I can barely afford to buy games) I expect better!

[wwfan]

Out of interest, just how many new players have you brought in and how many can't speak good English?

[Rittings]

Read the TTF thread and the guide provided in it.

I have. I spent a great deal of time trying to pick it apart. No avail. So what now do you suggest? I give Alex Ferguson a call? Or maybe I should call SI up?

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the attempted support on this site, but let us all try and be a bit honest about how pants this game now is... We are all a little blinded by our inequivical faith... all of which now appears misplaced.

[Rittings]

Out of interest, just how many new players have you brought in and how many can't speak good English?

I now have one player who can't speak good English.... he's on the bench. I am breaking him in gently. Just as I did with any other foreigners I have ever purchased...

I understand what you are saying though. I always sit my players on the bench until I feel they are ready and producing.

All players are getting good ratings... Which is weird right?? I also tend to stick to buying only a couple of nationalities. Thus my teams is mainly British or Argentinian (as I said, all of the argies now speak English bar one).

[deejay10]

How many of those 4 or 5 chances a game that you create are clear-cut ? Also have you tried watching any matches in full to see your build up play prior to creating those matches, actually see for yourself which players are having an impact on the game ?

I understand you got promoted and had success with your tactic, but maybe this then led teams to play differently against you ?

Now that you're the favourites to get promoted again (am I right ?), teams are probably playing a lot tighter and defensively against you, hitting on the break?

Are you having trouble breaking open tight defences? Getting hit on the break a lot ?

Ticking the counter attack option made a huge difference for me, enabling me to sort of play the slow, slow, quick football needed to open up stubborn defences.

[wwfan]

There will be an answer. There always is. It is just that you are too frustrated to see it right now. You need to break it down to basics.

1: The team is playing badly. You need to play more conservatively until form returns.

2: Morale will be shot. Encourage and praise in team talks/press conferences. Take the pressure off.

3: Make sure everybody is doing things he is good at. If a player has long shots 18, allow him long shots often.

4: Make sure the supply to the FCs is right. It is pointless pinging crosses at a shorty. Aim your crosses at the guy who is good in the air. If you have a quick FC, make sure the guy supplying him is getting into the right positiosn to do so. This may require an increase in mentlaity, FWRs or a free role. However, he needs to get into the space to make the pass.

5: Set up set pieces to make the best use of your players. Corner taker is left footed? Then inswing into the 6 yard box from one side and outswing to the penalty area from the other. For one, mass the players near the goal, for the other attack from deep.

6: Keep the defence solid by not pushing the FBs too far forward (FWRs mixed) and make sure that one MC sits in the anchor position.

All the above is based on the assumption you are not spreading your mentalities too wide. If you are, then nothing works.

[Rittings]

I have been using the standard 4-4-2. I tweaked it very slightly (I mean slightly too) to suit my players. My set pieces are already set up. Morale amongst the team is pretty good. We are not losing many games... just a lot of 0-0 draws with shoddy teams. Including a cup game against Yeovil. I am already playing counter-attack (I often do)...

I have Andy Carrol and Ebanks-Blake up top (I have cover for both of these in the form of Iwelumo and Balanta). This always gives me a big guy and little guy up front. I have tried targetting the big guy in certain games, but doesn't work.. my players always lump it into Sylvan instead...

I gather my mentalities are not too wide since I am using standard tactics right?

[Rittings]

Here is a screen shot of a recent game against Sheff Utd... I am clearly the better side. They couldn't get the ball off my boys...

Here is the league table... Check out the dismal Goals scored...

I don't let many in, and most the draws have been 0-0... Tried attacking, tried defending, tried counter-attack... I have been careful not to change my 4-4-2 tactic so the players don't keep having to put up with changing tactics...

I hope this helps you guys understand my frustrations. The game has lost the plot. The AI has figured out the 4-4-2... THAT IS BLOODY RIDICULOUS!!

[Roshan]

Yeah I agree with you this is a ****ing joke. I have world class players in my squad and we get hammered every game. Create quite a few chances every game and we can't buy a goal. Then to top it off they take the ball to the other end and as if by magic they score. This is pathetic I have read all the threads tried everything this is ******** and a waste of my hard earned money.

[Rittings]

Very strongly put Roshan haha. But no-one is really listening... and I don't mean that against you, because I totally agree with you. But SI aren't really interested anymore. We have been asking for difficulty levels for years now, and NOTHING! Some of us don't have time to read the HUGE pdf's about tactics. It's more complex than flying a plane (and believe I speak from experience).

Once again the default tactics are plop. I am trying so very hard to make this game work, but struggling like you wouldn't believe (or maybe you do, as there are an astronimical amount of complaints about it on here).

[Roshan]

Rittings yeah man I know it's a joke they expect us to be Noble prize winners to figure this **** out it's a joke. I can't believe a world class team gets done like a dinner by teams that have **** house players. I wasted my money on this **** of a game and then you get people on here saying I don't know how to play the game and to read the thousands of pages of utter crap about tactics.

[Pagan]

Im experiencing the exact same in my first game (first season). 1 win, 1 loss, 6 draws. 5-5 goalscore. My team is strong and my tactics are not defensive imo. 4-1-2-2-1 (diamond with 2 attacking midfielders just behind the lone striker).

It's not that the game has "figured" the tactic. More like the game engine sucks. It's kinda depressing when you spend alot of time working on tactics and you figure out there is no point..

[Serpico]

Roshan, I understand your frustrations (10 wins in two seasons) but please try and make your points without resorting to swearing.

I don't think it's fair to blame SI for not bringing in skill levels for this incarnation. Although there has been the odd request over the years, there hasn't been a big call for it.

I hope they are listening to users now though, as there seems to be a lot of people in the same boat on this version. I honestly think they are, and I have high hopes for next year.

[Serpico]

Im experiencing the exact same in my first game (first season). 1 win, 1 loss, 6 draws. 5-5 goalscore. My team is strong and my tactics are not defensive imo. 4-1-2-2-1 (diamond with 2 attacking midfielders just behind the lone striker).

It's not that the game has "figured" the tactic. More like the game engine sucks. It's kinda depressing when you spend alot of time working on tactics and you figure out there is no point..

The match engine's good imho. Best yet. But tactics are unintuitive beyond belief. It's got to the stage that you have to follow the rules laid out in the TT&F guide or you won't get anywhere. And even if you do there's no guarantee of even a tiny bit of success.

[Roshan]

Fair enough I am sorry for swearing, but it's beyond a joke really when a world class team can't even score goals. How can a world class team finish 15th is beyond me. I mean I get about 20 shots on goal and yet they all magically miss or hit the cross bar, then the other crappy side takes the ball to the other end and scores. And it's so wonderful that these sides that have a transfer budget of about a few thousand can keep beating a world class team. I even tried cheating in the lower leagues to see if my theory was right and guess what even in the lower leagues and even with me cheating I still couldn't get my team up about 12 in the league. Why should I sit here for hours creating tactics and reading 300 pages of how to make a good tactic when it all come to nothing. It's a waste of money to pay for this no wonder many people dont pay for this rubish.

[Shez1878]

Guys I totally understand your frustrations as I too struggled desperately to start with. No goals yet total domination managing my beloved Everton. In the end, I cheated and am now really enjoying the game!! It grates with me the fact I had to cheat but it was either that or let game catch dust on the shelf.

I changed my profile to INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALLER instead of AUTOMATIC and boosted my transfer funds by £20m which meant I could buy Vagner Love and Yuriy Zhirkov. I have started the game again and currently Everton are on a 5-match unbeaten run and I am loving every minute!

[Roshan]

Shez you hit the nail on the head we have to cheat to enjoy this pathetic game. And even when I cheated in the lower leagues I was still getting beaten and my world class strikers couldn't put the ball past some hack in the lower leagues, because all of a sudden they superman in the goals.

[Shez1878]

Yes unfortunately you do need to 'cheat' however I'm not sure being labelled as an ex-international footballer is that much of a cheat as its an option in the game. The only dodgy bit is boosting the transfer funds but even Kenwright's inept leadership would result in Everton having more than £1m to spend!

Furthermore, I spent over an hour in getting the tactics right and this GENUINELY makes a difference as I have seen the players follow my instructions on the pitch. You really need to get them right. I've gone for 4-4-2 for home matches and 4-2-1-3 away from home and it seems to be working.

Also need to spend a lot of time getting the set-pieces right and making sure the right players are in the right positions.

[bieritarier]

I've said that on another thread in the bugs forum (although I'd not really consider it a bug). Defensive formations and especially marking/tackling/heading of mediocre/rubbish defenders is over-exaggerated. Once these team are more prone to making defensive errors/losing their man in the box you should see more shots and consequently more goals. I know it's not all that black and white as striking accuracy needs be be improved but on the other hand goalkeeping is somethin SI have confirmed to look at and I expect amjor improvements to that area.

I have found out that when you're playing teams that are even or even slightly better it is easier to score (not to win!) then against lesser opponents and that can't be right. Especially putting them under pressure over the wings needs to be more effective as that'S how you usually crack a tight defence IRL.

[Rittings]

I still have to agree with Roshan. The game has lost all its charm and enjoyability factors. It's a lot of money to spend and then expect us to sit and read threads and tactic guides (which aren't even created by themselves!!! They owe those guys some major bucks imo!).

It's just lazy incompetence. They don't deserve our money next year. They won't get mine. I will download it and pass judgement first.

[KevinYesComps]

I had a frustrating start as well but followed the advice in another thread to play consertively, grinding out results, untill the team gained confidence. Now my team is performing at least as well as it is IRL. Your signing of "quality" players may actually have had a negative effect as they aren't "playing for you" - if you know what I mean. One way round this that I found was to reduce the creative freedom to a very low setting on players that from observation and rating were playing well but producing nothing. Also, I've started buying players for the future so that to start off with they are trying to impress me, and in the fullness of time they will have some loyalty towards me and ,hopefully, play in the way I want them to.

Don't give up.....even Harry Redknapp took a few years to get to his god like status!

[Rittings]

Oh dear. Harry Redknapp??? ARe you serious? You lost all credability at the end! haha. Just joking with ya...

I can't accept it's my "stars". Reason being, is that they are the ones that are carrying the team (even the press keep saying so lol).

My entire team are averaging 7.30ish ratings. My strikers are the highest (even though they are all scoring at low ratios). The performances are VERY solid. Even attacking formations and mentalities aren't changing things. Seems to make very little difference what I do.

I have had a little success of late. Drew 6 (still drawing nil nil a lot) Won 3 and Lost 1... I have scored 9 goals in the last 10 games!! I am amazed!! That's the best I have seen it... I might end up with nearly 40 goals at the end of the season!!! WOOHUH!!!

I hope you understand my sarcasm...

[deejay10]

Having seen your screenshot of your goals scored, only 17 in 21 games! il admit i would be very frustrated too. I think they have made the game probably too precise, and defnitely not for your average casual gamer. Tactics really need to be developed. I also think its a touch imbalanced in that goals from outside the area are slightly easier than inside the box, which is not realistic.

I like that SI have implemented team gelling more into the game, but there needs to be a balance where certain players gel quicker, almost immediately, and certain players pick up tactics quicker.

Also I have found that it is easier to score against the bigger teams, and ultra defensive time wasting formations from the AI have a little too much success.

IRL Chelsea destroyed Hull at home, Man Utd destroyed Stoke at home, but i rarely, if ever destroy small clubs at home.

[nukehim47]

The game isn't difficult but at the same time there IS problems.

I finished 2nd in my first season with Spurs but we never looked convincing, we wouldn't score many goals and my strikers would hardly get any chances. My player ratings were mainly below 7, now how can a team like that finish 2nd in the league?!

As usual SI have released a game that has some serious match engine issues and I can't play it anymore until it is sorted out.

It is crazy how you just cannot create chances for your strikers no matter what you do, the only way to score is either from range or from crosses out wide. It is very rare for any goals to come from a passing move through the middle.

Now I could modify my tactics to try and use a lot of width etc but why should I base my tactics around game flaws rather than what I think is right for my team?

[geronimo]

dude i got peed off with the game at first but perservere until you find a tactic

i was ready to join in with the rants then i gave rashidi's thread a go, and built a tactic from his template

i went from an underachieving birmingham side to a 5-0 winning away side, playing beautiful football and taking the league easily, and in the prem we are very steady

so just try around with a few tactics - im going for the 4231 and its working great - just perservere

[macdyne73]

Yes, read rashidi's thread and download the TT&F document. It will go a long way in helping you sort it out.

FM09 is a different animal now. If you think you can download a tactic that worked for another team and expect to do well you will be bitterly disappointed. Forfar Athletic does not play like Real Madrid therefore your tactics will NEED to be different.

I learned this the hard way.. But now I'm doing better thanks to the material in this forum.

[Rittings]

I downloaded the TT&F doc and read the entire thread long before I complained on here.

That season you saw, I eventually got promoted (automatically) and only scored 45 goals over the season. I let less goals in that anyone else. I purposely have purchased creative players... I probably have the most creative team in the league but created zippo. Even my centre halves we great passers with high creativity levels. I now have Kompany and Andreasen at the back (both are capable midfield or central defenders...

I am struggling badly in the prem. Not scoring, hardly conceeding. My best results have come against the big teams. I have beaten Chelsea, Man Utd and drawn with Arsenal. I lost to QPR, Fulham and Birmingham (and Ipswich)...

Lost interest. Playing Pro Evo now....

[rantbox]

Rittings... There's two issues I find, being in a similar situation as you with a newly promoted team:

1 - The most annoying this is inconsistency. One week, your team will pass well but defend badly. Another week with the same taxctics, we'll defend well but pass like crap. Next week, the strikers will have a bad day. Etc.

2 - The highlights don't show enough of why the team plays badly. Every highlight starts with a free kick or a throw in. There isn't enough build-up play shown. Unless you watch in full game, it's hard to pinpoint what the problems are.

I think the answer is keep it as simple as possible... add one thing at a time. I do agree this game is not that enjoyable yet... but I'm sure it can be.

However I definitely think SI have just alienated the silent majority who buy this game off the shelf and don't use these forums. I'm sure there are many people who have bought the game and have found this unhelpful, obtuse and eror-ridder match engine with hapless cluless twats posing as premiership players.

WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO READ A BLOODY 50 PAGE UNOFFICIAL DOCUMENT ON THE INTERNET IN ORDER TO GET HALF-ASSED PERFORMANCES FROM OUR TEAM.

(I'm not shouting, just being dramatic in a Monty Python God-like manner.)

Si should release two games next year: FM 2010 for normal people, and FM 2010 FAN-BOY OMG1 EDITION complete with pointless sliders and indecipherable tactical theories.

[randominator]

Si should release two games next year: FM 2010 for normal people, and FM 2010 FAN-BOY OMG1 EDITION complete with pointless sliders and indecipherable tactical theories.

hahaha, love it.

Anyway there's not much I can add to whats already been said. I've done a lot of complaining in previous posts and I just hope SI will take note..

[Delilah_katona]

I play FM for making fun, seeing how my baby players growing, Im not a tacticican making perfect theories, All i need is to win against rivals and against other opponents.

[Rittings]

We ALL play the game for fun. But where is the fun now?

I went back to playing the game. I spent the entire pre-season tweaking little bits here and there. I have an AWESOME side. I scrambled an 8th place finish in the Prem last season. I thought I had finally cracked it... and then...

Watford in my game are in the Championship.. they only appear to have 14 players in their first team squad too... And they are terribly poor!! It's the 2nd season in a row I have been knocked out to lower opposition. I even played some of my talented youngsters. They ripped them to shreads... only to lose to 1-clear cut chance....

OH MY GOD!!! Does this nightmare never end?

[deejay10]

We ALL play the game for fun. But where is the fun now?

I went back to playing the game. I spent the entire pre-season tweaking little bits here and there. I have an AWESOME side. I scrambled an 8th place finish in the Prem last season. I thought I had finally cracked it... and then...

Watford in my game are in the Championship.. they only appear to have 14 players in their first team squad too... And they are terribly poor!! It's the 2nd season in a row I have been knocked out to lower opposition. I even played some of my talented youngsters. They ripped them to shreads... only to lose to 1-clear cut chance....

OH MY GOD!!! Does this nightmare never end?

I would like to say this sort of game happens in real life, take Liverpool vs West Ham for example. But the disappointing thing is that it happens all to often in FM. AI ultra defensive formations, are far too effective. I'm assuming you hit the woodwork a few times amongst those chances ? Also why does lower morale affect strikers the most ?

[lordjubei]

Total agreed, wheres the fun gone in the game, they have fu.cked the game up with this new tactic setup.

Its like wheres the fun now, why have they made it so hard to make a tactic that works, i myself cracked the ai in the last game, now its just sh.it.

[Respected_Boss]

Total agreed, wheres the fun gone in the game, they have fu.cked the game up with this new tactic setup.

Its like wheres the fun now, why have they made it so hard to make a tactic that works, i myself cracked the ai in the last game, now its just sh.it.

The whole point is to make the ai uncrackable, for it to adapt like a real human being does, thats the whole point of ai mate, whilst its nowhere near perfected, thats the aim.

The fun for me is having a vastly superior team to Ipswich Town but losing to them in the playoff semi's with Wolves, even after i was 2-0 up at home they managed to get back to 2-2 after half time, Magiltons team talk worked, mine didnt. This series is vastly becoming a thinking mans game, more and more so the days of one killer tactic in 01/02 with Tó Madeira smashing in 10'000 goals a season are well gone

[Rittings]

The whole point is to make the ai uncrackable, for it to adapt like a real human being does, thats the whole point of ai mate, whilst its nowhere near perfected, thats the aim.

The fun for me is having a vastly superior team to Ipswich Town but losing to them in the playoff semi's with Wolves, even after i was 2-0 up at home they managed to get back to 2-2 after half time, Magiltons team talk worked, mine didnt. This series is vastly becoming a thinking mans game, more and more so the days of one killer tactic in 01/02 with Tó Madeira smashing in 10'000 goals a season are well gone

Understood. I have never looked for a "killer" tactic. Only ever sat patiently and worked a 4-4-2 that is useable. I currently play a 4-4-2... it becomes unreasonable and unrealistic when the AI cracks the 4-4-2... right? It's not because it CRACKS the system, it just simply cheats. It's not my tactics that have got me in a good position, it's my team. Simple as.

I know this why??? I returned to my original 4-4-2 tactic (one that got me nailed week in and out.. scoring only 36 goals in a 46 game season)... Here is the current result of my return to that tactic...

Crazy right?? I am totally baffled.

[Rittings]

Sorry for the double post, but can't do anything about it on this system...

I forgot to add that I'm in the Semi-final of the League Cup and still in the FA Cup too...

I have lost a couple (to the big boys) but trashing the little teams consistently now... I am well confused as to what as changed things.