info provided Transfers/Contracts

[tdh88]

Transfers / Contracts

I've owned every edition of FM Touch (iOS) since 2016 and this one, although introducing new features, appears to have taken huge steps backwards in terms of transfers/contracts. 

In this version of the game, I can no longer (among other things, this list is not exhaustive) do the following:

• offer competition bonuses to players during contract negotiations
• put in an expiry date for a release clause
• offer different types of release clause (e.g. for clubs in a higher division or those playing in a continental competition)
• offer players a sell on % of any profit made in their next transfer
• offer a seasonal landmark goal bonus
• offer an automatic contract extension following promotion
• offer a bonus for international caps / wage hike for a set number of caps
• make a transfer offer based on a per appearance fee
• make a transfer offer with a straight sell on clause 

I've attached images comparing a contract offer in this year's game (Johnny Williams) to last year's game (Adrian Mariappa) to show my point. 

It's such a shame that a game that prides itself on offering a realistic experience for players would take so many steps backwards in such an important part of the game. It has a huge impact on attracting players and is very basic. Comparing this product to last years, £ for £ this is currently worse. This issue with transfers/contracts really needs to be fixed in the next update. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by tdh88

[Harrison Modeste]

Hi @tdh88,

We've reduced the amount of bonuses and clauses available in FMT this year to fit in with the streamlined nature of the game.

We're disappointed to hear that you haven't enjoyed this change and are open to hear about your feedback on this area. 

Although we're unlikely to return to the amount of options in previous games, we'd like to hear your suggestions on which previous bonuses/clauses you think are vital or really add to your experience.

Please start a thread in the below forum with your suggestions to improve the game: 

https://community.sigames.com/forum/679-football-manager-touch-all-formats/

Thanks again for your feedback,

Harrison

[Joedw]

What’s the point of this game? This game is more streamlined/dumbed down than the Mobile game.

I don’t want to accuse the devs, during what has been a difficult year, of laziness but this just stinks. You’ve streamlined one of the most important features of the game yet added the Shouts feature which isn’t exactly in line with your streamlined model.

Again, this version of the game just feels like it should be a freebie tacked onto the full fat game. Such a shame as I was looking forward to this game, but I’ll carry on with FMT20 in the meantime.

[tdh88]

5 hours ago, Harrison Modeste said:

Hi @tdh88,

We've reduced the amount of bonuses and clauses available in FMT this year to fit in with the streamlined nature of the game.

We're disappointed to hear that you haven't enjoyed this change and are open to hear about your feedback on this area. 

Although we're unlikely to return to the amount of options in previous games, we'd like to hear your suggestions on which previous bonuses/clauses you think are vital or really add to your experience.

Please start a thread in the below forum with your suggestions to improve the game: 

https://community.sigames.com/forum/679-football-manager-touch-all-formats/

Thanks again for your feedback,

Harrison

@Harrison Modeste that's really poor that this decision has been taken. I completely agree with the comment made by Joedw. 

You have a completely streamlined version of the game, it's called FM Mobile. You already cut back on features which are not going to be the be all and end all, but building your squad and taking your team to glory is part of the fabric of this game, which is effectively an immersive experience based on the idea of Fantasy Football. Taking away these features, and adding stats like xG and individual shouts which add nothing to the gaming experience (and go against this M.O which you are referring to about streamlining the game) is misguided and will put people off. You may not lose people this year, but in future people will be put off paying such a high amount of money and turn to free alternatives where expectations are lower. There's lots of promotional material about what's new, what you remove could also be referred to as "new features". 

Edited December 7, 2020 by tdh88

[tdh88]

4 hours ago, Joedw said:

What’s the point of this game? This game is more streamlined/dumbed down than the Mobile game.

I don’t want to accuse the devs, during what has been a difficult year, of laziness but this just stinks. You’ve streamlined one of the most important features of the game yet added the Shouts feature which isn’t exactly in line with your streamlined model.

Again, this version of the game just feels like it should be a freebie tacked onto the full fat game. Such a shame as I was looking forward to this game, but I’ll carry on with FMT20 in the meantime.

Completely agree @Joedw. Hopefully this will get sorted. I might go back to FMT20 in the meantime and play a proper management game. 

[Gujord]

On 07/12/2020 at 17:47, Harrison Modeste said:

Hi @tdh88,

We've reduced the amount of bonuses and clauses available in FMT this year to fit in with the streamlined nature of the game.

We're disappointed to hear that you haven't enjoyed this change and are open to hear about your feedback on this area. 

Although we're unlikely to return to the amount of options in previous games, we'd like to hear your suggestions on which previous bonuses/clauses you think are vital or really add to your experience.

Please start a thread in the below forum with your suggestions to improve the game: 

https://community.sigames.com/forum/679-football-manager-touch-all-formats/

Thanks again for your feedback,

Harrison

The lack of options in contracts make this feel more simple, and not in a good way. The possibility to have different conditions to a release clause is important when you start with a small team. I never felt it was to much, rather something that worked really good. As tablets get better you should really focus on adding relevant content, not removing that which works fine.

same goes for data base. Almada is missing when I start a game in pl, Serie a and bundesliga. Biggest talents should really be included. In many ways this years game feels more cheap and simple in many ways

 

[Joedw]

48 minutes ago, Gujord said:

The lack of options in contracts make this feel more simple, and not in a good way. The possibility to have different conditions to a release clause is important when you start with a small team. I never felt it was to much, rather something that worked really good. As tablets get better you should really focus on adding relevant content, not removing that which works fine.

same goes for data base. Almada is missing when I start a game in pl, Serie a and bundesliga. Biggest talents should really be included. In many ways this years game feels more cheap and simple in many ways

 

I’m doing a career with PSG on FMT20, my first big team career mode in a decade.

I use the bonuses in every players contract, partly because each agent wants more for their client, most players have a CL winners bonus and team of the year (domestic) bonus. I move some of the players basic weekly salary into bonuses/clauses to save money for my wage budget for contract extensions.

This still baffles me why they would rip out code that’s been baked into FMT since it started, all for streamlining. If they would do a proper u-turn and add these back in plus fix the most urgent of bugs in the game then it’s a must buy, otherwise unfortunately for them that £20 will not be going to SI’s coffers.

[beleglom]

I absolutely agree with the comments. I can’t comprehend why delete all this features. I play FMT because I have not the time to play to the full version. 
these choices to extremely simplify the game, lower so much the quality of the game, that is truly expensive... sorry for my poor English :)

[Gujord]

1 hour ago, beleglom said:

I absolutely agree with the comments. I can’t comprehend why delete all this features. I play FMT because I have not the time to play to the full version. 
these choices to extremely simplify the game, lower so much the quality of the game, that is truly expensive... sorry for my poor English

Same here. Just can’t find the time for a full game. And the full game can’t be played on iPad Pro. Still, I felt I got all the things I needed to enjoy the game last year. So why make it simpler this year? Add some of the key features, but don’t remove any. 

[doc32]

3 hours ago, beleglom said:

I absolutely agree with the comments. I can’t comprehend why delete all this features. I play FMT because I have not the time to play to the full version. 
these choices to extremely simplify the game, lower so much the quality of the game, that is truly expensive... sorry for my poor English

Same case for me.. I was really looking forward to this year’s game after my very pleasant experience with FMT20 following years of break from the game, and it did not even take a week for my enthusiasm to wear off already. 

Releasing a ‘beta’ game is one thing, and as frustrating as it is, at least I know those issues will be fixed at some stage, but I just cannot comprehend why so many features that have such high approval rating from us, players, have now been removed without a reason.

[Marc Vaughan]

On 07/12/2020 at 12:10, Joedw said:

What’s the point of this game? This game is more streamlined/dumbed down than the Mobile game.

I don’t want to accuse the devs, during what has been a difficult year, of laziness but this just stinks. You’ve streamlined one of the most important features of the game yet added the Shouts feature which isn’t exactly in line with your streamlined model.

Again, this version of the game just feels like it should be a freebie tacked onto the full fat game. Such a shame as I was looking forward to this game, but I’ll carry on with FMT20 in the meantime.

I realize that all the changes might not suit everyone - but they're in line with what we've stated we are planning for the game moving forward.

Shouts does fit in with the idea of a streamlined and fast moving game, they don't interrupt the match and allow users to make a difference on the fly without spending ages making adjustments - as such I feel they suit FMT totally.

[Joedw]

1 hour ago, Marc Vaughan said:

I realize that all the changes might not suit everyone - but they're in line with what we've stated we are planning for the game moving forward.

Shouts does fit in with the idea of a streamlined and fast moving game, they don't interrupt the match and allow users to make a difference on the fly without spending ages making adjustments - as such I feel they suit FMT totally.

I understand what you’re saying, and it’s impossible to please everyone.

Just a couple of questions, were contract negotiations too complex for FMT? Are there any plans to review and potentially add back in some of the clauses/bonuses?

[Marc Vaughan]

2 hours ago, Joedw said:

I understand what you’re saying, and it’s impossible to please everyone.

Just a couple of questions, were contract negotiations too complex for FMT? Are there any plans to review and potentially add back in some of the clauses/bonuses?

If there is 'huge' demand for specific ones then we will consider adding one or two back HOWEVER there were good reasons for their removal and in all but 0.5% of cases the ones removed would be unlikely to affect a player joining your club (ie. the ones remaining are the ones which have the largest impact on a player considering a move).  In all honesty my preference would be that if its shown that in some circumstances the effect is significant to user that we tune the interest of players to give more significance to the clauses given.

Complexity does not mean an improved playing experience in my opinion, an example of this would be including 'inflation' in the game would be 'realistic' as you play ... but when I experimented with it (a decade plus ago) it was shown that users just lost their grasp on what the value of money in their game meant. Thus the game is 'inflation neutral' because it's more immersive and playable.

PS - I appreciate the passion of the people commenting and the feedback they're giving, we obviously want as many people as possible enjoying our games ... but it is impossible to please everyone all the time, so where possible I'll explain our reasoning first and foremost ... we put a huge amount of time and effort into creating the games and don't make any changes lightly.

[tdh88]

On 04/01/2021 at 16:10, Marc Vaughan said:

If there is 'huge' demand for specific ones then we will consider adding one or two back HOWEVER there were good reasons for their removal and in all but 0.5% of cases the ones removed would be unlikely to affect a player joining your club (ie. the ones remaining are the ones which have the largest impact on a player considering a move).  In all honesty my preference would be that if its shown that in some circumstances the effect is significant to user that we tune the interest of players to give more significance to the clauses given.

Complexity does not mean an improved playing experience in my opinion, an example of this would be including 'inflation' in the game would be 'realistic' as you play ... but when I experimented with it (a decade plus ago) it was shown that users just lost their grasp on what the value of money in their game meant. Thus the game is 'inflation neutral' because it's more immersive and playable.

PS - I appreciate the passion of the people commenting and the feedback they're giving, we obviously want as many people as possible enjoying our games ... but it is impossible to please everyone all the time, so where possible I'll explain our reasoning first and foremost ... we put a huge amount of time and effort into creating the games and don't make any changes lightly.

There is a significant effect that comes from these clauses. The fact that the computer can still negotiate using a number of clauses the user cannot include in return (nor see it's been added until it comes to the confirmation, you can only work it out when doing maths from your offer to the total value at the bottom), shows it's importance. The clauses (contracts and transfers) benefit managers of lower league clubs, when you try and sign players you cannot afford out of your transfer budget, and signing promising youngsters where you can delay payment for a period of time before they reach the first team. 

Bonuses do make a big difference in negotiations, especially if you cannot satisfy wage demands. In real life, would players sign the contracts they do without bonuses like these (on the topic of bonuses, why hasn't a win bonus ever been included?)? 

This is hardly complex, it is reintroducing drop down options which players can choose to ignore if they wish. It does not compare in anyway to trying to add for inflation into the game, where you go into the realms of projecting inflation indexes over a 30+ year period (and factoring in potential differences in TV rights deals and the popularity of football). 

[Marc Vaughan]

7 minutes ago, tdh88 said:

There is a significant effect that comes from these clauses. The fact that the computer can still negotiate using a number of clauses the user cannot include in return (nor see it's been added until it comes to the confirmation, you can only work it out when doing maths from your offer to the total value at the bottom), shows it's importance.

Could you just clarify something to me please - have you seen the computer managers use clauses that aren't available to humans? (if so that is a bug as it's intended to be a level playing field for obvious reasons).

[tdh88]

On 08/02/2021 at 21:42, Marc Vaughan said:

Could you just clarify something to me please - have you seen the computer managers use clauses that aren't available to humans? (if so that is a bug as it's intended to be a level playing field for obvious reasons).

Hi Marc,

Yes I have, I've just tried as a tester with a player and added a screenshot below (He was transfer listed for £40M, I bid £20M and the counter offer was £29M but at the bottom it said "Total value of this transfer £34M"). The only moment that clause is visible to me is when it comes to the confirmation email. 

If this is a bug, I would propose that to fix it, rather than remove it, the player should have the ability to do it too, thus creating a level playing field between player and computer managers/clubs...

This clause (per league appearance) is still part of compensation packages as well for poached youth teamers, but that's always been the case (not fussed about that, as it's tribunal)

[Harrison Modeste]

Hi @tdh88,

Thanks for clarifying the above, this is the issue we are aware of and the Dev Team are working on this currently.

If there's any other instances of clauses being used by the AI that are unavailable to the User then please let us know.

Thanks for your patience,

Harrison

[tdh88]

23 hours ago, Harrison Modeste said:

Hi @tdh88,

Thanks for clarifying the above, this is the issue we are aware of and the Dev Team are working on this currently.

If there's any other instances of clauses being used by the AI that are unavailable to the User then please let us know.

Thanks for your patience,

Harrison

No problem @Harrison Modeste, as I've said in my previous posts, I hope the Dev Team work on restoring said clauses so they are available to User and AI, rather than removing them completely!

[Will_K]

Agree with all the comments here - having owned the FM Touch on the iPad since the first version I was disappointed to see the removal of so many clauses.