Tottenham Hotspur (FM21) - Refining Attacking Tactic

[AvidFMer]

Started a new save with Spurs a few days ago before I deleted it as results weren't great. 

Tactic: 3-4-3 

 

Kane (DLFat)

 

Son (SSat)                                  Lo Celso (AMsu)

 

      Reguilon (WBsu)                                 Ndombele (DLPde)                                             Hojbjerg / Sissoko (BWMsu)                 Doherty / Aurier (WBde)

 

Jose Gimenez(CDde)            Alderweireld (BPDde)                Ben White (CDde)

 

Andre Onana (SKde)

 

Team Instructions

In Possession: play out of defence

In Transition: counter press

Out of possession: High def line, High line of engagement, Get stuck in

Team Mentality: Positive

 

Player Instructions

Kane, Son & Lo Celso - More urgent pressing (i.e. split block)

Lo Celso - More direct passing

 

Summary

The tactic isn't terrible results wise as I was hovering around 5th - 8th place in the league.

It is quite solid defensively as Onana has recorded most clean sheets in the league with 12 from 20 played.

It's upfront where the problems are. Kane has 5 goals and 3 assists in 20 games whilst Son has 9 goals in 20 played. For world class forwards such as these the tactic isn't allowing them to perform at their optimum level imo.

I want Kane and Son to be the goal scorers, with Lo Celso and Ndombele providing the creativity in behind. 

However I'm not sure if I've selected the correct mentality for the attacking style that I'm trying to play. From my understanding mentality = risk level so I selected positive as I don't want it to be purely possession based. Players shouldn't be afraid to take risks. Could the high mentality be causing players to rush chances or something?

Couple of questions:

1. If I wanted to modify this tactic to be more possession based what changes would people recommend? Should mentality be dropped lower?

2. Is the formation and roles and duties I've selected suitable for the attacking style of football I'm trying to play here?

3. Can someone explain to me what each mentality level does to other settings?

4. How do people approach parked buses and away games? I'm finding it difficult to break down teams that sit back deep with the tactic above and I struggle in away games aswell.

5. And lastly, how can I get Kane to score more goals? In the DLFsu role he drops deep to link the play but I saw he wasn't getting in the box enough so I changed it to DLFat but not really seeing much difference. Should I try complete forward role?

Looking to start a new save so happy to hear any ideas for how I can approach this better.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by AvidFMer

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, AvidFMer said:

Kane (DLFat)

 

Son (SSat)                                  Lo Celso (AMsu)

 

      Reguilon (WBsu)                                 Ndombele (DLPde)                                             Hojbjerg / Sissoko (BWMsu)                 Doherty / Aurier (WBde)

 

Jose Gimenez(CDde)            Alderweireld (BPDde)                Ben White (CDde)

 

Andre Onana (SKde)

Wait a minute, is this the 3-4-2-1 with 2 DMs instead of CMs? I am asking because the DLP and BWM are shown as if they play in the same line as the WBs.

If so, then the formation is too conservative for a top team like Spurs, to begin with.

[AvidFMer]

13 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Wait a minute, is this the 3-4-2-1 with 2 DMs instead of CMs? I am asking because the DLP and BWM are shown as if they play in the same line as the WBs.

If so, then the formation is too conservative for a top team like Spurs, to begin with.

No it’s 3-4-2-1 with 2 CMs. Messed up the formatting 

[Experienced Defender]

11 hours ago, AvidFMer said:

No it’s 3-4-2-1 with 2 CMs. Messed up the formatting 

Okay, so it then looks like this:

DLFat

SS        AMsu

DLPde      BWMsu

WBsu                                        WBde

CDde   BPDde   CDde

SKde

There are 3 tweaks I would make to this setup:

- support duty for the DLP

- defend duty for the BWM

- attack duty for the RWB

Can you figure out why? If you can, you are already on the right track. 

[AvidFMer]

15 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Okay, so it then looks like this:

DLFat

SS        AMsu

DLPde      BWMsu

WBsu                                        WBde

CDde   BPDde   CDde

SKde

There are 3 tweaks I would make to this setup:

- support duty for the DLP

- defend duty for the BWM

- attack duty for the RWB

Can you figure out why? If you can, you are already on the right track. 

Yeah the formation is like that.

Gonna take a few guesses... the RWB on attack to provide a runner from deep that can link up with Lo Celso?

And the BWM on defence to cover for the attacking runs of the RWB, with the supporting DLP contributing more further forward?

[Experienced Defender]

2 minutes ago, AvidFMer said:

he RWB on attack to provide a runner from deep that can link up with Lo Celso?

And the BWM on defence to cover for the attacking runs of the RWB, with the supporting DLP contributing more further forward?

Yes. More precisely, the RWB on attack to provide attacking width on the right, since the formation is narrow, so there is none else to do that. CWB on support may also be an option, depending on what exact kind of wide support you want. In either case, the holding BWM is there to provide defensive cover. Of course, it can be a CM on defend if you notice the BWM being too aggressive and thus being drawn out of position. 

[AvidFMer]

12 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Yes. More precisely, the RWB on attack to provide attacking width on the right, since the formation is narrow, so there is none else to do that. CWB on support may also be an option, depending on what exact kind of wide support you want. In either case, the holding BWM is there to provide defensive cover. Of course, it can be a CM on defend if you notice the BWM being too aggressive and thus being drawn out of position. 

Ok I’ll make those adjustments and see how it plays out.

Also, what do CWBs offer that is different from normal WBs? I’ve never really used that role in game before as not sure what it exactly does. 

And do you think I would be better off making Kane a complete forward in this setup? 

 

 

[Experienced Defender]

11 hours ago, AvidFMer said:

Also, what do CWBs offer that is different from normal WBs?

CWB is more attack-minded as a role and has greater freedom of movement (roaming), especially in the final third. I personally use CWB role only in narrow formations (like yours), i.e. when he is the only wide player on his flank. Otherwise, I don't see much point in it. 

 

11 hours ago, AvidFMer said:

And do you think I would be better off making Kane a complete forward in this setup?

Kane can definitely play as a CF, but he is so good and well-rounded a player that he can virtually play any striker role. So it basically depends on which role fits best into your system. Anyway, give it a try and see  

[AvidFMer]

10 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

CWB is more attack-minded as a role and has greater freedom of movement (roaming), especially in the final third. I personally use CWB role only in narrow formations (like yours), i.e. when he is the only wide player on his flank. Otherwise, I don't see much point in it. 

 

Kane can definitely play as a CF, but he is so good and well-rounded a player that he can virtually play any striker role. So it basically depends on which role fits best into your system. Anyway, give it a try and see  

Thanks for that explanation, I’ll try out the CWB and CF roles and see how it goes.

One last thing, what’s your take on mentality? How do I decide on which one to use? Is it simply a case of risk level? Cause sometimes I’m unsure. I remember reading on here a while back that counter attack can be played even with positive or attacking mentalities and it has worked quite well for me in my last save. I have a separate 3-5-2 tactic which is quite potent when playing big teams.

So if I wanted a possession based style, would selecting a lower mentality be better? 

[Experienced Defender]

14 hours ago, AvidFMer said:

One last thing, what’s your take on mentality? How do I decide on which one to use? Is it simply a case of risk level?

For me, the simplest way to describe the mentality is - it affects everything but does not define your style of play. Which means that a low(er) mentality does not necessarily mean a defensive style of football, nor a high(er) one automatically means an attack-minded style.

Basically, the mentality is about risk (as you correctly noted). This risk involves passing style, player's (relative) positioning on the pitch, (un)willingness to go forward more, overall creative freedom and freedom of movement and so on. 

If you are not sure, the safest option is to start with the Balanced and then work from there as you see fit. My personal approach - with top teams I prefer Positive and with all others Balanced.

But roles, duties and instructions - which are affected/adjusted by the mentality though - play a greater part in defining your style of play than the mentality does. Especially pay attention to the lines of defense and engagement, because these two can - and do - have a great impact.

[AvidFMer]

16 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

For me, the simplest way to describe the mentality is - it affects everything but does not define your style of play. Which means that a low(er) mentality does not necessarily mean a defensive style of football, nor a high(er) one automatically means an attack-minded style.

Basically, the mentality is about risk (as you correctly noted). This risk involves passing style, player's (relative) positioning on the pitch, (un)willingness to go forward more, overall creative freedom and freedom of movement and so on. 

If you are not sure, the safest option is to start with the Balanced and then work from there as you see fit. My personal approach - with top teams I prefer Positive and with all others Balanced.

But roles, duties and instructions - which are affected/adjusted by the mentality though - play a greater part in defining your style of play than the mentality does. Especially pay attention to the lines of defense and engagement, because these two can - and do - have a great impact.

Thanks for the detailed explanation and all your help. 

I’ve gone with positive mentality and implemented the CWB and BWM and I’m seeing good results even though it’s  just pre season. 

Will provide an update once I’ve gone further into the season