Very, very slow player development - help with training

[Markofe]

Hi, I have big issue with players development. Almost none of my players are developing. I am playing with Rennes and I am playing very good but attributes barely grow.

For example I have talents such as Camavinga and Doku. Here is Doku almost one year later, first team player, no injuries, almost nothing changed.

He was on individual shooting training for almost 3 months so he improves his finishing, and nothing, I don't know what is the purpose of individual training if it does not work. 

I have my assistant manager taking care of training, please don't tell me that I must take care of trainings myself in order to make players to develop? I really don't like that part of the game so I have two questions:

1.) Is it possible for players to develop if training is lead by Ass Man?

2.) If I have to take care of training myself, what is the most simple training setup to finally see some attributes grow?

I know some attributes changed for example for 0.3 or 0.2 or such, but I want to see real grow. Thank you in advance

( first screenshot is after some time and after he has a debut for Belgium first team, and second screenshot is from the start of the game, as I've said almost nothing changed )

Edited December 9, 2020 by Markofe

[frukox]

I strongly advise you to watch the training videos on Rashidi's Bustthenet channel. You will learn how to decide on your Club DNA according to your playstyle, how to set up them weekly and on a monthly basis and so forth.

[NotSoSpecialOne]

It's absolutely possible for players to develop when the Ass Man handles training. It's not necessary to take over all aspects of that part of the game to see growth, but doing so will let you optimise and fine tune development.

For example, I let my AssMan etc handle training, but I'll also come in and tweak a player's individual training to guide development. Sort of halfway between leaving AssMan to his own devices and taking care of everything.

The more varied the training the player is exposed to (ie: the amount of attributes that are worked on when considering general training modules, individual position training and individual focus) the less likely any individual attribute is to increase IMO. I could be wrong though but that's the way I see it.

You also have to temper expectations a little too, imo. Someone like Doku is never going to be an amazing finisher even if you were to optimise his training.

[Rashidi]

I just did a guide for training  where i clear up some misconceptions that have recently popped out around training.

15 hours ago, Markofe said:

.) Is it possible for players to develop if training is lead by Ass Man?

Yes it is very possible for this to happen. Young players develop well but ultimately it depends on how you have groomed them. Do you give them game time? Have you invested in your own coaches and facilities? You can also choose to be in charge of their own individual training. This is something i like to do.

If you have let him on generic positioning training, his development is fairly generic, so if you want better control over his growth, I would recommend choosing a specific individual role training for him. For example, looking at him he will turn into a decent inverted winger. Train him to do that, use a tactic that he can play in, and improve his decisions and balance, and start playing him in the first team.

Attributes in the game are simplified for most people to show 1-20. Those arrows up show that he is developing, what you want to see are green arrows which show a significant improvement. And that can happen with the right kind of training. You need to play him more, plus I am not sure what the timeline is for you, but in most cases for young players i usually see an improvement in like 3-6 months. I doubt they will go up by 50 points. In 3-6 months most likely a few points here and there. 

They need good training ratings, and match ratings too. When they are young you also dont want to overplay them.

There is a myth that leaving it to the assman is bad, thats simply not true. They do develop, but humans can extract way more simply because we can drive it in specific directions.

[Saargamer]

 

Hello @Rashidi,

 

can you please post the link to your training guide.

 

Thank you

[DarJ]

1 hour ago, Saargamer said:

 

Hello @Rashidi,

 

can you please post the link to your training guide.

 

Thank you

 

[Markofe]

10 hours ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

You also have to temper expectations a little too, imo. Someone like Doku is never going to be an amazing finisher even if you were to optimise his training.

I really can't agree with this, he is 18 y old and there is no way you can know is he going to be a good finisher or not, at least, that would be the case in real football. But I don't expect that to happen, I just wished at least finishing improved by 1.. but thank you anyways for your tips

 

9 hours ago, Rashidi said:

I just did a guide for training  where i clear up some misconceptions that have recently popped out around training.

Yes it is very possible for this to happen. Young players develop well but ultimately it depends on how you have groomed them. Do you give them game time? Have you invested in your own coaches and facilities? You can also choose to be in charge of their own individual training. This is something i like to do.

If you have let him on generic positioning training, his development is fairly generic, so if you want better control over his growth, I would recommend choosing a specific individual role training for him. For example, looking at him he will turn into a decent inverted winger. Train him to do that, use a tactic that he can play in, and improve his decisions and balance, and start playing him in the first team.

Attributes in the game are simplified for most people to show 1-20. Those arrows up show that he is developing, what you want to see are green arrows which show a significant improvement. And that can happen with the right kind of training. You need to play him more, plus I am not sure what the timeline is for you, but in most cases for young players i usually see an improvement in like 3-6 months. I doubt they will go up by 50 points. In 3-6 months most likely a few points here and there. 

They need good training ratings, and match ratings too. When they are young you also dont want to overplay them.

There is a myth that leaving it to the assman is bad, thats simply not true. They do develop, but humans can extract way more simply because we can drive it in specific directions.

I just bought better coaches. The thing that scares me the most is - My friend has started the save with Inter, and he also have this problem. He said for example wonderkid like Bastoni didn't improved at all, his first choice defender. And then I think, if the young player is not developing under good coaches and good ass man and good facilities as Inter has, what are then chances for developing players in smaller clubs.

"I would recommend choosing a specific individual role training for him." I did this also. Both with him and Camavinga who is one of the best talents in the game, and he also didn't improve much.

Here is the Doku's playing time. He is playing almost every game. I am sad. This is is the first FM I like since FM 2015. I had to stop playing FM2019 because of this, my best talents were not developing at all even they were playing very good and even I was crushing my opponents. Is it please possible that you share some of your wonderkids one or two seasons after creating the game, I just want to see how they develop under your training ( just not choose some newgen/regen please )

 

I really hate the possibility that I will have to stop playing this version because of this

 

[Markofe]

Doku just became slower at age of 18. So development here has zero sense as it was in FM 2019.

This is my first season, we finished 2nd, way above expectation, we won the French Cup, he had a debut for Belgium at age of 18, he had plenty of games and he became worse player than he was at the start of the game.

Absolutely zero sense. 

 

 

UPDATE: I have just criticised his development, and he didn't agree. HOW he does not agree when it so clear that the development is not going well. This is really devastating for me, I had to stop with FM 2019 because of this, and it seems I will stop with FM 2021 because of the development which has zero sense. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Markofe

[Rashidi]

There is obviously something you are missing in understanding...

 

This is after just 6 months on FM21

When you go to the progress page this is what you see since the last month. All those arrows, are slight improvements.

 

If I drill down to look at how he has developed in the last 5 months I get this. All those green arrows are improvements of a point, so it means that he improved in a few areas.

Here is another player set on a different individual training program, he has played less matches, been injured a few times so I've only played him sporadically,

He has improved in two main areas that I wanted, with this lad i am more specific with his development so that was good. I want his mentals to go up so that he can be an even better playmaker. Next is his passing vision and technique.

In essence, you need to make sure, you play the player the right amount of times, overplaying can be bad. He needs to generate decent ratings, he has to have good morale, he has to have the right personality as well. I reckon you are either missing out on something or it could be something else. Finally in one season you can't expect a player to leap in development by 20 or 30 points. Really young players who are 16-17 can. I at least know they are on track from their training ratings page

[Rashidi]

The Youth team are managed by the assman, i am only doing individual training. The main team is using a custom training schedule

[[SFW]Medic Tim]

Youth players: individual training: specific role emphasizing mental development

Over 23: Generic one with additional focus

Intensity double intensity

Manage injury

[NotSoSpecialOne]

I don't have access to his progress page since he's out on loan this season, so I've had to grab a new save screenshot for comparison.

Pretty happy with his growth, given he has largely been left to the Ass Man and neither Coruna's youth facilities or youth staff are anything to write home about (nor have I been able to improve them). He'd be in the first team this season if Lorenzo Tonelli didn't pop up on a free transfer and if I could actually resist them free transfers this save, lol.

Edited December 11, 2020 by NotSoSpecialOne

[[SFW]Medic Tim]

Personality and PA are also the factors.

Progress page shows a more accurate picture when you wanna check the development.

Some players stall some players become big superstar likes IRL

3 hours ago, Markofe said:

 

 

[Markofe]

I quit my save and did some testing: 

1.) I have created a new save, unemployed, and went on holiday for one season. When I got back, and checked Rennes, Doku's attributes didn't improved at all. So it was the same for AI controlled Rennes as it is was for me. Doku didn't improve at all

2.) I have increased Doku's potential to 200 in editor - again, went one season on holiday, when I got back, only his Dribbling got up by 1.

So it seems, that even with max potential, he is not developing.

3.) I have increased his potential to 200 again, and Ambition to 20, and Professionalism to 20. Went again one season on holiday, and only then he has improved.

Which is a bit strange to me. One of the best talents in the game will develop only if he has ambition and professionalism attributes high. I don't know what is then the point of PA. It literally means nothing that he has about 170 potential in the game.

- I also did one more test. There is one 24y old first choice striker in Rennes. I have increased his potential to 200. And also, his Ambition and Professionalism to 20.

Then I have created 3 new saves, and all 3 times went on holiday for a season. His attributes didn't change by a single digit in all 3 cases. I can't understand how the player with such numbers didn't improve at all. Player should not reach his maximum at age of 24.

 

Thank you guys for your answers, but I simply don't like how the development works.

[Rashidi]

OK since you have left it like that i will close the thread.