FM20: Trying to build a 4-2-4/4-2-3-1 hybrid tactic

[rtnn]

Hi guys! 

 

I'm deep in my save with fm20 and thought I'd try to switch things up before calling it quits and trying out the newer version. I've tried to make a pseudo 4-2-4 tactic with mixed results. Initially it seemed to work like a charm, I was destroying lesser sides 5-0 and the play was free flowing fluid. Lately I've struggled to score and I've been leaky at the back, especially against better sides away from home. Was crushed 0-4 against Chelsea and 0-3 against Real Madrid. 

 

So this is the core tactic (sorry about the image I can't get to the game rn). My tactic also has counterpressing and counter ticked on with a split block with the front four (bar Trequartista). The Trequartista is also actually played in the AMCR strata unlike in the picture below. 

I would want to play pass and move football, getting the ball quickly from back to front and then forcing mistakes by creating effectively a 1v1 situation against their entire four man defense with my four attackers. The volante, hb, and iwb's would be there to recycle possession. 

I want to make the Trequartista be the main star and unlike the picture I actually use him in the AMCR strata to get him joining the build up play more. He is not performing for me though. He doesn't get enough of the ball and rarely scores or gives key passes. I've tried more of a playmaker type and a more physical player with mixed results. 

Volante is on support duty with GFF PI. He has scored a lot of my goals with long shots. At best this tactic makes super fluid midfield movement; looking like a 4-1-2-3 when building from the back with the Volante, Trequartista and Half Back making a beautiful midfield triangle, it then switches to a 4-2-3-1 when the half back comes out of the defense and finally a 4-2-4 when we push in the opposition area.

The Inverted wingbacks are supposed to help fill the gaps left by forward running Volante and between the Trequartista and the deep half back. 

The winger on support is a super fast player with 18 crossing, 17 passing and 16 vision. I'd like him to keep the width and find the other three forwards with a quick cross or angled through ball. He is currently working fine. Scoring and assisting.

The idea is for the front 4 to be roaming around (all have roaming PI) and dribbling, causing trouble to opposition defense. I imagine the Trequartista and the CF causing dilemmas for the opposition CB as they both roam and drop and I'd like the Iw(a) to look to attack the space if they choose to close down my forwards. I feel that maybe I'm not keeping the ball enough to force those errors. Maybe my play is too rushed? The Iw(a) and the Treq might also occupy the same places as the treq is in the AMCR strata right next to the iw. 

The striker role is where I'm most lost. CF(s) helps balancing the squad (the red/green squares in tactics creator) but he doesn't really get involved. He usually gets 10-15 passes a game and a few shots. I play him in the left striker strata to keep that pseudo 4-2-4 shape. What role would you suggest for him? 

 

Any thoughts or resources for a 4-2-4 tactic or just on how to make the Trequartista click for me? Also how can I tighten up a bit at the back? I concede mostly long shot goals. 

[Experienced Defender]

The duties of your IWBs, both CBs and volante cannot be seen in this screenshot, as well as both the role and duty of the keeper.

As for those that can be seen, I would avoid having 2 forward players on the same duty when they are played on the same side (TQ and IWat in your tactic).

Btw, according to the in-game description, IWB as a role is virtually ineffective in a formation with more than 1 DM, and you have 2. 

 

[rtnn]

Here is a better view of the now revisited tactic.

I must say that after tinkering around I kinda made it work.

 

 

Made some alterations after the Schalke game.

 

I usually start the Trequartista in the striker strata, but if he is marked out or my build up is lacking I drop him in the AMCR strata. He seems to be my weakest link now though, definitely not the star! My iw(s) gets most of my open play goals now and the cf(s) gets most of the assists but I'm not complaining as I finally look like a proper attacking team. Even pushed Liverpool deep in their own half at Anfield and was up 0-3 by HT. They almost clawed their way back though with two goals but overall I was the better team there. I'll look to post some screenshots of some nice plays if I get to it.

 

14 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

The duties of your IWBs, both CBs and volante cannot be seen in this screenshot, as well as both the role and duty of the keeper.

As for those that can be seen, I would avoid having 2 forward players on the same duty when they are played on the same side (TQ and IWat in your tactic).

Btw, according to the in-game description, IWB as a role is virtually ineffective in a formation with more than 1 DM, and you have 2. 

 

Yeah I remembered there was somekind of a catch with the inverted wingbacks with two DM's and they definitely weren't narrow enough to fully be a part of the midfield. But what they do do is cut inside and keep the ball in the middle of pitch rather than running down the flank and crossing, which I got sick of seeing with my 4-1-4-1 tactics. In this tactic the iwb(s) looks to dribble towards the box more than towards the byline, which seem to really push the opposition deep and narrow in their own box. I did end up switching one of the wingbacks to a regular wb(s) to keep some width on the inverted winger side.

[rtnn]

 

This is what I see a lot. I make those 1v1's across the entire defense and push them really deep and narrow. It then makes space for the wingback (number 3). Usually it just ends up as a goal from the number 17 from the edge of the box. I am really vulnerable for counter attacks though. If Kane lost the ball there, I would've been in trouble.

 

 

This is the build-up phase when I play the Trequartista in AMCR strata. I started the game with him as a striker but he was constantly sandwiched between opposition number 4 and 18. This move created him some space.

Edited December 11, 2020 by rtnn

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, rtnn said:

 

3 hours ago, rtnn said:

I must say that after tinkering around I kinda made it work

Great 

[frukox]

11 hours ago, rtnn said:

Here is a better view of the now revisited tactic.

I must say that after tinkering around I kinda made it work.

 

 

Made some alterations after the Schalke game.

 

I usually start the Trequartista in the striker strata, but if he is marked out or my build up is lacking I drop him in the AMCR strata. He seems to be my weakest link now though, definitely not the star! My iw(s) gets most of my open play goals now and the cf(s) gets most of the assists but I'm not complaining as I finally look like a proper attacking team. Even pushed Liverpool deep in their own half at Anfield and was up 0-3 by HT. They almost clawed their way back though with two goals but overall I was the better team there. I'll look to post some screenshots of some nice plays if I get to it.

 

Yeah I remembered there was somekind of a catch with the inverted wingbacks with two DM's and they definitely weren't narrow enough to fully be a part of the midfield. But what they do do is cut inside and keep the ball in the middle of pitch rather than running down the flank and crossing, which I got sick of seeing with my 4-1-4-1 tactics. In this tactic the iwb(s) looks to dribble towards the box more than towards the byline, which seem to really push the opposition deep and narrow in their own box. I did end up switching one of the wingbacks to a regular wb(s) to keep some width on the inverted winger side.

It's a really good tactic. I'd only add Low Crosses to encourage cutbacks for CFS, T and SVA and remove Hit Early Crosses. Who do your wings cross for? There are lots of late runners in this system.

[rtnn]

8 hours ago, frukox said:

It's a really good tactic. I'd only add Low Crosses to encourage cutbacks for CFS, T and SVA and remove Hit Early Crosses. Who do your wings cross for? There are lots of late runners in this system.

 

That's a good point, I'll try it out. The point of the early crosses was to keep the pressure on the opposition box and to avoid wing backs getting too far forward. 

 

[frukox]

1 hour ago, rtnn said:

 

That's a good point, I'll try it out. The point of the early crosses was to keep the pressure on the opposition box and to avoid wing backs getting too far forward. 

 

If Felipe can defend his flank with his partner and your SV is willing to work his socks off there should be nothing to worry about

[3rik]

Really interesting setup. Wondering if this is as good at FM21. Might try it out. How far are you into the game? Thinking about if you were dominating the world before you tried this tactic and the players are outstanding and therefore it's working out?

[rtnn]

On 14/12/2020 at 15:57, 3rik said:

Really interesting setup. Wondering if this is as good at FM21. Might try it out. How far are you into the game? Thinking about if you were dominating the world before you tried this tactic and the players are outstanding and therefore it's working out?

It is 2028 in my save and I definetily have one of the strongest teams in the world but I wouldn't say I've been dominating. Fm20 has been a lot more difficult for me and I've just recently managed to win back to back Premier leagues and I won the treble once (PL, UCL, FA).

 

I have ran into some problems with this tactic recently (your traditional mid season slump) so there is room for improvement. I got dominated by Kloppos direct attacking Arsenal but reverse-FM'd them to a 0-0 result. Onana the saviour with 18 saves. 

I also lost in FA Cup against a League One side who played with 10 men most of the second half. I allow too many dangerous counter attacks and struggle to create space when they defend deep. 

I am still top of the league in January by 1 point. My right inverted winger is my top scorer with 14 league goals. CF(s) and right WB(s) top assister. 

 

I think I'll revamp this tactic a bit with lowering the mentality (inspiration from Cleon) and switching the HB to another role to give better midfield support. Also the iwb is now FB(s) with sit narrower PI. I also tried the Volante as a BBM in CM strata to get the iwb work like an iwb with mixed results.

The Trequartista is quite disappointing. I have an amazing player there but he doesnt make key passes or create chances and scores too little. I wonder if I can make him work like I want him to. He would probably work better in FM21. Maybe I'll get him some more space to manouvre with lowering the mentality.... 

Edited December 15, 2020 by rtnn

[cez]

On 16/12/2020 at 00:21, rtnn said:

It is 2028 in my save and I definetily have one of the strongest teams in the world but I wouldn't say I've been dominating. Fm20 has been a lot more difficult for me and I've just recently managed to win back to back Premier leagues and I won the treble once (PL, UCL, FA).

 

I have ran into some problems with this tactic recently (your traditional mid season slump) so there is room for improvement. I got dominated by Kloppos direct attacking Arsenal but reverse-FM'd them to a 0-0 result. Onana the saviour with 18 saves. 

I also lost in FA Cup against a League One side who played with 10 men most of the second half. I allow too many dangerous counter attacks and struggle to create space when they defend deep. 

I am still top of the league in January by 1 point. My right inverted winger is my top scorer with 14 league goals. CF(s) and right WB(s) top assister. 

 

I think I'll revamp this tactic a bit with lowering the mentality (inspiration from Cleon) and switching the HB to another role to give better midfield support. Also the iwb is now FB(s) with sit narrower PI. I also tried the Volante as a BBM in CM strata to get the iwb work like an iwb with mixed results.

The Trequartista is quite disappointing. I have an amazing player there but he doesnt make key passes or create chances and scores too little. I wonder if I can make him work like I want him to. He would probably work better in FM21. Maybe I'll get him some more space to manouvre with lowering the mentality.... 

Ive tried t10 and False Forward in a 4231 tactics and i way more prefer the latter, try it maybe it would solve ur t10 problems

Edited December 18, 2020 by cez

[rtnn]

On 18/12/2020 at 18:32, cez said:

Ive tried t10 and False Forward in a 4231 tactics and i way more prefer the latter, try it maybe it would solve ur t10 problems

What do you mean by false forward? A F9 with a T10 or the Treq as a forward? 

 

Recently I returned to the formation from the screenshot above and it has been working again while keeping mentality as balanced. I do up it a notch or two occasionally. I also returned to the IWB at left back. He doesnt position himself narrow, but he does underlap really well with the winger and he keeps posession rather than punting crosses. Zaniolo is a beast at iw(s) on the right flank. 20 league goals and ten games still to go. The forward role is what I'm still not sure of. I'm not sure if I want him to offer support or attack.