Overlap and Underlap....when to use?

[Herolover]

I understand what the team instructions Overlap and Underlap do. Overlap causes players to hold onto the ball and look for a player, such as a FB, going wide. Underlap causes the players to hold onto the ball and look for a player making a run, not in the wide areas, but through the middle.

 

The question I want to know when is an appropriate time to use them?

Is it as simple as, "They are defending Narrow, so I will go wide with Overlap." Is it as simple as "Well, I have a good FB so I will go with Overlap."

 

What are your clues that it is time to use these team instructions?

 

 

[ozilthegunner]

I'm still toying with best application of these myself, but a couple of the ideas I have picked up on:

1. Both underlap/overlap will reduce the mentality of the winger on the relevant side while increasing the mentality of the fullback. So, one reason to use either one is just to get the mentality effect. That can be helpful, for instance, if you want your team to build up a bit slower and get more people involved in the attack
2. Overlap will tend to push the winger inside, while underlap will have the opposite effect. So, one reason to choose one or the other is to get that effect on the winger
3. Underlap can provide a useful means of generating an overload. I think the typical example is something like a Mezzala, an inverted winger, and a fullback/wingback all on the same side. Underlap would encourage the inverted winger (or whatever role he has) to look inside where he will find both the fullback AND the mezzala

[EnigMattic1]

Best bet would be to have a look at a video by @Rashidion YouTube. The guy is a genius and, after watching his video (albeit for FM20), I was able to effectively use both overlap and underlap to get my tactic working wonders.

[Herolover]

7 minutes ago, ozilthegunner said:

I'm still toying with best application of these myself, but a couple of the ideas I have picked up on:

1. Both underlap/overlap will reduce the mentality of the winger on the relevant side while increasing the mentality of the fullback. So, one reason to use either one is just to get the mentality effect. That can be helpful, for instance, if you want your team to build up a bit slower and get more people involved in the attack
2. Overlap will tend to push the winger inside, while underlap will have the opposite effect. So, one reason to choose one or the other is to get that effect on the winger
3. Underlap can provide a useful means of generating an overload. I think the typical example is something like a Mezzala, an inverted winger, and a fullback/wingback all on the same side. Underlap would encourage the inverted winger (or whatever role he has) to look inside where he will find both the fullback AND the mezzala

Those are really great things that I had not considered. I did know about the Mezzala though.

[Jaye]

Two things I look out for:

1) The positioning of the opposition full backs

2) How they're protecting the middle of the pitch

If the opposition full backs are playing aggressively against me and leaving space, I put on Underlaps. The bigger space between the opposition centre back and full back is ripe for forwards to use and I want my team to find it. 

If they're playing defensive full backs, then I might leave it on, but only if they're not playing with a DM on a defensive mentality. If they're playing a bottom-heavy system and parking it, I switch to Overlaps, because the only way I'm dislodging that block is by using width. Underlaps would just see us play into congestion and have a bad time.

You also have to consider the qualities of your players and the roles/duties in your tactic. Underlaps require there to be good inside movement in the first place to work effectively. It won't work as well if you have nobody from midfield breaking forward or nobody on the flanks attacking the box. Moreover, if you're full-backs and wingers are poor passers, they might pass it to an opponent in a bad area. Overlaps will work if your full backs can cross and you have players in the box who can profit, otherwise they'll be up the pitch purely to stretch play, and you'll see the ball going into wide area more than central areas. Note that even if you use Underlaps, your full backs will still cross when the chance arises.

Overlaps can be a useful way of encouraging your full backs to attack more without changing their duty. You can use a FB(S) and get him attacking with an Overlap instruction without him being entirely gung-ho. Underlaps will do the same, but will have an effect on your passing direction.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Jaye

[Herolover]

2 minutes ago, EnigMattic1 said:

Best bet would be to have a look at a video by @Rashidion YouTube. The guy is a genius and, after watching his video (albeit for FM20), I was able to effectively use both overlap and underlap to get my tactic working wonders.

Yeah. I watch his videos all the time. I consider him the master of tactics, but sometimes I want the "Tactics for Dummies," book and he is writing master thesis.

[freddieos]

2 minutes ago, Herolover said:

Yeah. I watch his videos all the time. I consider him the master of tactics, but sometimes I want the "Tactics for Dummies," book and he is writing master thesis.

Or 2 min summary videos as the guy likes to talk...

[DarJ]

I tend to use Underlaps when I play IFs, Mez on attack and CM on attack and the reason is because wingbacks tend to like running with the ball to the by-line and getting their crosses blocked but underlaps tends to encourage them to use the runs of those players mentioned earlier and they can get goals

Like others have said I just use overlaps when I want to play more cautiously with my fullbacks but I also want them to support play so I use it to increase their mentality 

[Rashidi]

Underlap when you want to drive play inside and overlap when you want to drive play out.

[crusadertsar]

I tend to use overlap when I want to modulate the individual  mentality of my inside forwards. Like when I want them to play more patient build up and pass to the unrushing midfielder or wingback. Works very well in more possession-focused approach. Can have mentality of inside forward reduced to positive or balanced depending on team mentality and role so it's closer to the mentality of the other players. Much better build up.

[FMunderachiever]

I think underlaps is great if you want a central midfielder or attacking midfielder to attack the box from deep.

Also helps with defending i think, means the team are narrower and closer together when we lose possession.

[Corperate]

On 12/12/2020 at 04:11, Rashidi said:

Underlap when you want to drive play inside and overlap when you want to drive play out.

I have been trying to figure out the specifics of an underlapping run for some time now. And would really appreciate any feed back to my questions below.

In the below system who specifically is making an underlapping run? 1.) when the inside forward or winger has the ball and 2.) When the wingback or full back has the ball.

My understanding is that the wide players... both wingbacks and wingers/inside forwards are looking to play the ball inside..... to anyone central.... This would include a Midfielder roaming forward from 'horizontally behind' the wide player,.. and also more forward pass to someone 'horizontally further forward' for example Winger/ Inside Forward to a striker ahead of them.

 

 

 

[DarJ]

5 minutes ago, Corperate said:

I have been trying to figure out the specifics of an underlapping run for some time now. And would really appreciate any feed back to my questions below.

In the below system who specifically is making an underlapping run? 1.) when the inside forward or winger has the ball and 2.) When the wingback or full back has the ball.

My understanding is that the wide players... both wingbacks and wingers/inside forwards are looking to play the ball inside..... to anyone central.... This would include a Midfielder roaming forward from 'horizontally behind' the wide player,.. and also more forward pass to someone 'horizontally further forward' for example Winger/ Inside Forward to a striker ahead of them.

 

 

 

So there is a huge misconception about this in the FM community and I'll try to explain it as simply as I can and @Rashidican correct me if I'm wrong.

I'll start from the "overlap right/left": When you have the instruction turned on, it doesn't tell the fullback to run forward and go past the winger on that flank (yes I know it increases the mentality of the fullback and decreases that of the winger), the fullback is making his natural movement; what the instruction does is, it tells the winger "hey, you might want to slow down a bit and wait for the FB who is making his natural run and give the ball to him". That's all the instruction does.

For "underlap right/left", it does nothing more than tell the player on the flank "hey, you might want to slow down and look for someone inside making his natural forward movement".

So in both tactic those instructions might not be effective because you don't have anyone on the inside that moves forward naturally trying to get himself into the box. Maybe the volante will do it but he's on support duty so he's more incline to hang out outside the box. If the volante was on attack then it will make sense to use the instruction on the left.

There's no such thing as an "underlapping run" that is caused by the use of that instruction. An underlapping run is when the IWB runs inside and that has nothing to do with the "underlap right/left" instruction 

[Corperate]

2 minutes ago, DarJ said:

So there is a huge misconception about this in the FM community and I'll try to explain it as simply as I can and @Rashidican correct me if I'm wrong.

I'll start from the "overlap right/left": When you have the instruction turned on, it doesn't tell the fullback to run forward and go past the winger on that flank (yes I know it increases the mentality of the fullback and decreases that of the winger), the fullback is making his natural movement; what the instruction does is, it tells the winger "hey, you might want to slow down a bit and wait for the FB who is making his natural run and give the ball to him". That's all the instruction does.

For "underlap right/left", it does nothing more than tell the player on the flank "hey, you might want to slow down and look for someone inside making his natural forward movement".

So in both tactic those instructions might not be effective because you don't have anyone on the inside that moves forward naturally trying to get himself into the box. Maybe the volante will do it but he's on support duty so he's more incline to hang out outside the box. If the volante was on attack then it will make sense to use the instruction on the left.

There's no such thing as an "underlapping run" that is caused by the use of that instruction. An underlapping run is when the IWB runs inside and that has nothing to do with the "underlap right/left" instruction 

 

 

Thank you for your comments and yes I get a lot of what you are saying. But I think you have slightly misconstrued the specifics of what I have said. My understanding is that an underlapping run is anyone central making a run forward this could be an inverted fullback or a volante. 

 This is essentially my question... will the 'look for underlap' instruction include those further vertically forward. In the instance of my tactic the left back and winger looking to play forward to a center forward. Instead of looking to make gains down the flank?

 

 

[DarJ]

1 minute ago, Corperate said:

will the 'look for underlap' instruction include those further vertically forward. In the instance of my tactic the left back and winger looking to play forward to a center forward. Instead of looking to make gains down the flank?

I think it depends on the kind of forward you have. The Complete forward will come deep occasionally so when you're attacking his natural instinct is to go forward as a striker so I could see that happening but if you have an AF that's another type of striker and I don't think it will apply to him because of the kind of movement the AF makes

 

[Corperate]

Yes an advanced forward would in fact be optimal for the tactic.

[Riziger]

6 hours ago, Corperate said:

 

 

Thank you for your comments and yes I get a lot of what you are saying. But I think you have slightly misconstrued the specifics of what I have said. My understanding is that an underlapping run is anyone central making a run forward this could be an inverted fullback or a volante. 

 This is essentially my question... will the 'look for underlap' instruction include those further vertically forward. In the instance of my tactic the left back and winger looking to play forward to a center forward. Instead of looking to make gains down the flank?

 

 

Curious to see what others say about this also. Say if you put an underlap on the left. Foden is naturally stretching the play, to 'maximise' the underlap would we want to have some combination of VOL(A) and an AM(A) and/or an FB(A)?

 

[Corperate]

It is my understanding that a full back on attack will not be the underlapping player but would be instructed to look for an underlapping player the same as Foden is instructed to do

[Rashidi]

Basically what @DarJsaid

[Corperate]

Are you advising that an underlapping run is made from a movement behind the ball carrier/ wide player?

Not as I have suggested that it  may be a diagonal pass from e.g wingback to striker or inside forward?