In a rough season, help me take my team forward.

[ich bin Lior]

Hey guys ! This is my first ever post in here, I've seen how much help you can provide here and want to see if you can help me aswell.
English is not my native language so if there are some mistakes I'm sorry.

I'm managing "SV Austria Salzburg" from the 3rd division in Austria, they are a fan club that opened after "Red Bull" purchased the Salzburg team by their fans.
I'm doing the youth academy challenge that means I literally depend on the youth intakes, they are currently in season 5 the best they can possibly be Youth Recruitment and Junior Coaching wise.

In the 1st season I finished in the mid table. using this tactic:

 

I've tried to be pretty simple although playing with some "hard" roles.

In the 2nd season when using mostly the same tactic I got promoted.

3rd season, first season in the 2nd tier of Austrian leagues, I again finished in mid table. 9th to be exact, still same old 433.

4rd season was the season I got promoted from the 2nd league, managing to even win the FA Cup, with a win in ET in the semi finals and a 2-1 lucky win in the finals, both over first league teams, that season my tactics were all over the place trying to find my self.

Currently we are in our 5th season, 20 league games in, 2 wins, 2 draws .. yes. we suck. I know that my team is way below the level of the 1st league teams, my players are really not technically gifted.

My players have an above average mental stats, but really below average technical and physical which makes me think I need to play a very structured anti football tactic which I can't find.

I'll add some of the players I try to build my team on, most of them are crap. How can I maximize this squad ability ?
I've already understand I'm gonna get relegated but I want to be able to play the best I can in the 2nd division and hopefully get back to the 1st although there are much better teams than ours in the 2nd division.

I would love to play some out of the box smart football that can take the mental stats of my players to the max while not having to worry about their technicals, It will probably have to be built with wingers as those are the best and most potential players I've got in my team.

I hope you could help me with ideas and such and maybe even understand better the squads ability.

Thanks in advance, Lior.

Below you can find 10 players, the 5 Best in the Squad and the 5 with the most potential in the Squad.

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by ich bin Lior

[Tsuru]

I think your instructions look a bit too deep on possessive football and may create a "possession for the sake of possession" tactic, in which you have the ball but don´t do anything with it. I also believe the roles and duties are not well balanced, you don´t have a holding midfielder and your two MCs attack too much, which can give your opponents a lot of space.

Starting from your players, you have Paul Lang which is good as a DLP, Burkhart as a CM AT and Kramer as Mezzala. As they are the best on your team, it looks like a 4-1-4-1 DM wide is a good starting point, maybe with Lang as a DLP - D on the DM position (or it can be Gruber as a DM - D), Kramer maybe as a Mezzala on Support on the left and Burkhart as a CM AT on the right. 

If you decide this is a good idea, than you have a Mezzala on the left and he may benefit from space on that side. Maybe an Inside Foward or Inverted Winger can work, and on the other side, a common Winger on Support ahead of the CM AT. Or you can put two wingers on Support on each side and combine them with a Pressing Foward on attack.

If you use the winger moving inside on the left it would be good that the fullback explore that space, so maybe an attacking fullback, probably a Wingback on Support or FB on Attack, to use the flank better without exposing the flank too much. And on the other side you can use a Fullback on support, as the Winger is already doing that flank. 

The striker could be a DLF on Attack if one of your wingers move inside, and maybe a PF on Attack if you use two "common" wingers.

But the roles and duties will depend on the kind of football that you want to play. I think that looking at your players, an attacking/control ball game may work, as you have three intelligent midfielders.  I would start with Positive Mentality, Higher Defensive Line (and nothing more), Distribute Quickly to FBs and DCs (and maybe during matches add Counter or Counter Press), CBs and DM on defend with shorter passing. I would observe during 2 or 3 matches, see how it goes, what I like and what I do not, and then evaluate if it´s good or if any changes are necessary.

See, I don´t know your other players and my suggestions may even not work completely, but maybe they help you as a starting point on developing your tactic. Hope your team improves and you have fun.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Tsuru

[ich bin Lior]

33 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

I think your instructions look a bit too deep on possessive football and may create a "possession for the sake of possession" tactic, in which you have the ball but don´t do anything with it. I also believe the roles and duties are not well balanced, you don´t have a holding midfielder and your two MCs attack too much, which can give your opponents a lot of space.

Starting from your players, you have Paul Lang which is good as a DLP, Burkhart as a CM AT and Kramer as Mezzala. As they are the best on your team, it looks like a 4-1-4-1 DM wide is a good starting point, maybe with Lang as a DLP - D on the DM position (or it can be Gruber as a DM - D), Kramer maybe as a Mezzala on Support on the left and Burkhart as a CM AT on the right. 

If you decide this is a good idea, than you have a Mezzala on the left and he may benefit from space on that side. Maybe an Inside Foward or Inverted Winger can work, and on the other side, a common Winger on Support ahead of the CM AT. Or you can put two wingers on Support on each side and combine them with a Pressing Foward on attack.

If you use the winger moving inside on the left it would be good that the fullback explore that space, so maybe an attacking fullback, probably a Wingback on Support or FB on Attack, to use the flank better without exposing the flank too much. And on the other side you can use a Fullback on support, as the Winger is already doing that flank. 

The striker could be a DLF on Attack if one of your wingers move inside, and maybe a PF on Attack if you use two "common" wingers.

But the roles and duties will depend on the kind of football that you want to play. I think that looking at your players, an attacking/control ball game may work, as you have three intelligent midfielders.  I would start with Positive Mentality, Higher Defensive Line (and nothing more), Distribute Quickly to FBs and DCs (and maybe during matches add Counter or Counter Press), CBs and DM on defend with shorter passing. I would observe during 2 or 3 matches, see how it goes, what I like and what I do not, and then evaluate if it´s good or if any changes are necessary.

See, I don´t know your other players and my suggestions may even not work completely, but maybe they help you as a starting point on developing your tactic. Hope your team improves and you have fun.

First of all thank you so much for your advice and the time you've pit into this.

The tactic I've attached above is not what I'm playing currently, its what I used and what my players know the best, currently I'm changing and trying new stuff every couple of games.

I feel like I need to play possession football and waste it just so I wont get attacked and get humiliated, and because my players are smarter than they are good with their feet I fill like playing a counter attacking fast football will lead to a lot of possessions lost.
In my head and there is a chance I'm wrong, I feel like because my players are smarter than good with the ball in their feet I need to play smarter and less technical football, way more structured and with way less dribbling and 1on1.

A question that I want to ask you, you said that if I'll put a Mezalla in the left, with an IF above it, I should play with a wing back, wont the wing back and the mezzala get too much into each other ?

I will for sure try your advice, and I will update you on how it goes.

I just feel like this is the weirdest team I've ever had in football manager, cant understand how should I play with those kind of players.

Btw, which tactic style did you think of when advising those roles ?

Edited December 16, 2020 by ich bin Lior

[Justified]

If I'm understanding it correctly, you're in your first season in the top league?

Playing a 433 as a newcomer in a top league can be tough sometimes. Not impossible but it can be tricky as your defending is with a 4-3. But I'd definitely look to be solid first and direct and counter. Only problem there is your left winger seems to be the only one with pace.

I'd say, if it's not working out well you can revert to something that has a 4-4 in defence to keep your lines more compact. Your wingers are more Natural in those positions anyways so could be a win win possibly.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Justified

[ich bin Lior]

10 minutes ago, Justified said:

If I'm understanding it correctly, you're in your first season in the top league?

Playing a 433 as a newcomer in a top league can be tough sometimes. Not impossible but it can be tricky as your defending is with a 4-3. But I'd definitely look to be solid first and direct and counter. Only problem there is your left winger seems to be the only one with pace.

I'd say, if it's not working out well you can revert to something that has a 4-4 in defence to keep your lines more compact. Your wingers are more Natural in those positions anyways so could be a win win possibly.

Yes, first season in the top league.

I took Tsuru Advice and currently playing like this:

 

Results got way better:

 

Currently I'm 5 points off relegation with 6 games remaining.

[Justified]

If it works then don't fix it. 

[Tsuru]

31 minutos atrás, Justified disse:

If it works then don't fix it. 

I think this is the best advice ever. Sometimes we can imagine lots of things about a tactic and in the field it works on a completely different way. 

3 horas atrás, ich bin Lior disse:

First of all thank you so much for your advice and the time you've pit into this.

The tactic I've attached above is not what I'm playing currently, its what I used and what my players know the best, currently I'm changing and trying new stuff every couple of games.

I feel like I need to play possession football and waste it just so I wont get attacked and get humiliated, and because my players are smarter than they are good with their feet I fill like playing a counter attacking fast football will lead to a lot of possessions lost.
In my head and there is a chance I'm wrong, I feel like because my players are smarter than good with the ball in their feet I need to play smarter and less technical football, way more structured and with way less dribbling and 1on1.

A question that I want to ask you, you said that if I'll put a Mezalla in the left, with an IF above it, I should play with a wing back, wont the wing back and the mezzala get too much into each other ?

I will for sure try your advice, and I will update you on how it goes.

I just feel like this is the weirdest team I've ever had in football manager, cant understand how should I play with those kind of players.

Btw, which tactic style did you think of when advising those roles ?

The wing back will play on the flank, the IF will go inside through goal and Mezzala will work somewhere between/behind the other two, so I think they can work very well together.

I don´t like this tactical creator either, I think it´s not intuitive and it´s not easy to do what you want, it has a proper logical way of thinking and it´s important to understand it.

Regarding the style, as I said I think a possession/attacking style could do well with the players you have. 

Stick with the one that´s going well and give us a feedback here, if necessary we can help on further improvements.

[ich bin Lior]

So I started playing this tactic in the relegation playoff:

 

I've got some good results with it, and somehow managed to stay in the league.

 

I thought everything is gonna get better now, had a good pre season training schedule and everything but I'm just so bad I'm starting to get frustrated in this save.
My results so far:

 

 

Last game:

Even when I can somehow lead I'm losing.

What can I do different ??

Edited December 17, 2020 by ich bin Lior

[NotSoSpecialOne]

Personally I wouldn't use Work Ball Into Box + Be More Disciplined together on any mentality that isn't Attacking or Very Attacking. It's overkill and really pushes you towards possession with no intent. Not sure what the thinking is behind two Ball Playing Defenders when you've got a playmaker ahead of them.

You look especially vulnerable on the counter, I doubt the DLP(De) is providing adequate cover for the two wing backs to do their thing. But a quick glance at those match stats tells me you're probably not just getting hit on the counter whilst high up the pitch. That's a lot of shots to give up when you have the lion's share of possession. I also wonder if your team is actually capable of playing shorter whilst on a higher tempo - without seeing what you're seeing I can only speculate that you're giving away possession cheaply in dangerous areas (based on the low pass completion and how many chances they had).

[Justified]

6 hours ago, ich bin Lior said:

So I started playing this tactic in the relegation playoff:

 

I've got some good results with it, and somehow managed to stay in the league.

 

I thought everything is gonna get better now, had a good pre season training schedule and everything but I'm just so bad I'm starting to get frustrated in this save.
My results so far:

 

 

Last game:

Even when I can somehow lead I'm losing.

What can I do different ??

Had a feeling you'd run into issues later down the line. Probably the AI wasn't ready for you being quite attacking.

Personally, as a team which isn't the best in the league, you're way too open with this and playing a sort of fast possession tactic. Quite difficult when you don't have the quality. I'd keep things really simple and go a bit direct.

Go to a balanced mentality and keep the instructions very simple. In possession go Direct, Higher Tempo and if teams are leaving space because they're attacking you then you can add Pass Into Space but use it situationally. If you want to still build up from the back then add Distribution to the CD's and Fullbacks. I would have Counter but not counter press and be a bit more midblock-ish. Out of possession, have no instructions. I would however use split blocking as a 433 is a good formation to do this with. Add close down more to the front 3 and the attacking midfielder. Use this as a base and add/remove however you like.

As for the roles you can be more conservative. Because you're no longer higher up the pitch you don't need a SK, you can have a basic GK. Use regular CD's as you'd already be playing more direct. The LB can be a FB on attack so he can use the space left by the IF. The RB you can choose whatever you feel works well. A defend duty if you want more solidity, support if you want him to contribute. Attack only if you are the better team. In midfield I'd use a simple DMCd, DLPsu on the left and a CMatt on the right. Essinger is a winger, use him as one on support. Use an attack role on the striker.

These kind of roles keep it very simple and have a good counter plan. It also allows you to easily have a second tactic with cautious mentality when wanting to close out the game.

[Tsuru]

1 hora atrás, Justified disse:

Had a feeling you'd run into issues later down the line. Probably the AI wasn't ready for you being quite attacking.

I had the same feeling, @ich bin Lior. But your team was winning, so ask for changes could not be a good idea.

Justified gave you some ideas about counter attacking and I could also suggest another way of doing it, as there are many. I still think your midfield trio suits a possession based style, but you need more balanced instructions, roles and duties.

The question is, would you be comfortable playing on the counter? It may be less riskier, but it will never completely work if you don´t like. You could also stick to the possession style and accept the risks. This is an important choice and maybe you need to decide.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Tsuru

[Justified]

8 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

I had the same feeling, @ich bin Lior. But your team was winning, so ask for changes could not be a good idea.

Justified gave you some ideas about counter attacking and I could also suggest another way of doing it, as there are many. I still think your midfield trio suits a possession based style, but you need more balanced instructions, roles and duties.

The question is, would you be comfortable playing on the counter? It may be less riskier, but it will never completely work if you don´t like. You could also stick to the possession style and accept the risks. This is an important choice and maybe you need to decide.

That's just me being more a 1-0 then 4-3 type of manager in these situations  Can definitely play a possession based style if he wants but against better teams in that league it will be a bit of a struggle.

[Tsuru]

53 minutos atrás, Justified disse:

That's just me being more a 1-0 then 4-3 type of manager in these situations  Can definitely play a possession based style if he wants but against better teams in that league it will be a bit of a struggle.

Yes, me too, I prefer a less riskier style - and I love direct and intense football, so this sum ends in a counter attack style when I play with lower league teams. But I really believe the most important is to feel comfortable, maybe it will be a bit of struggle on the first seasons but things get better with better players. This is a very important and necessary choice IMHO. 

[ich bin Lior]

3 hours ago, Justified said:

Had a feeling you'd run into issues later down the line. Probably the AI wasn't ready for you being quite attacking.

Personally, as a team which isn't the best in the league, you're way too open with this and playing a sort of fast possession tactic. Quite difficult when you don't have the quality. I'd keep things really simple and go a bit direct.

Go to a balanced mentality and keep the instructions very simple. In possession go Direct, Higher Tempo and if teams are leaving space because they're attacking you then you can add Pass Into Space but use it situationally. If you want to still build up from the back then add Distribution to the CD's and Fullbacks. I would have Counter but not counter press and be a bit more midblock-ish. Out of possession, have no instructions. I would however use split blocking as a 433 is a good formation to do this with. Add close down more to the front 3 and the attacking midfielder. Use this as a base and add/remove however you like.

As for the roles you can be more conservative. Because you're no longer higher up the pitch you don't need a SK, you can have a basic GK. Use regular CD's as you'd already be playing more direct. The LB can be a FB on attack so he can use the space left by the IF. The RB you can choose whatever you feel works well. A defend duty if you want more solidity, support if you want him to contribute. Attack only if you are the better team. In midfield I'd use a simple DMCd, DLPsu on the left and a CMatt on the right. Essinger is a winger, use him as one on support. Use an attack role on the striker.

These kind of roles keep it very simple and have a good counter plan. It also allows you to easily have a second tactic with cautious mentality when wanting to close out the game.

Will take into consideration, I'll answer it more in the next qoutes.

 

7 hours ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

Personally I wouldn't use Work Ball Into Box + Be More Disciplined together on any mentality that isn't Attacking or Very Attacking. It's overkill and really pushes you towards possession with no intent. Not sure what the thinking is behind two Ball Playing Defenders when you've got a playmaker ahead of them.

You look especially vulnerable on the counter, I doubt the DLP(De) is providing adequate cover for the two wing backs to do their thing. But a quick glance at those match stats tells me you're probably not just getting hit on the counter whilst high up the pitch. That's a lot of shots to give up when you have the lion's share of possession. I also wonder if your team is actually capable of playing shorter whilst on a higher tempo - without seeing what you're seeing I can only speculate that you're giving away possession cheaply in dangerous areas (based on the low pass completion and how many chances they had).

I did lose the ball in my half a lot.

 

1 hour ago, Justified said:

That's just me being more a 1-0 then 4-3 type of manager in these situations  Can definitely play a possession based style if he wants but against better teams in that league it will be a bit of a struggle.

I'm defintly a "Manager" and even an irl football fan that prefer the 1-0 and not the 4-3.

 

53 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

Yes, me too, I prefer a less riskier style - and I love direct and intense football, so this sum ends in a counter attack style when I play with lower league teams. But I really believe the most important is to feel comfortable, maybe it will be a bit of struggle on the first seasons but things get better with better players. This is a very important and necessary choice IMHO. 

I'll answer you and Justified together. 

The thinking from my side for why playing a counter attacking base football wont work its because it will make me have less chances probably and with my players I don't think those chances gonna convert and that will mean I'll play for a 0-0 all the time and probably will concede as my defenders and goalkeeper are really not in the level of the league. At least thats what im thiking and thats why im "afraid" to give the possession away.

Edited December 17, 2020 by ich bin Lior

[Tsuru]

1 hora atrás, ich bin Lior disse:

'll answer you and Justified together. 

The thinking from my side for why playing a counter attacking base football wont work its because it will make me have less chances probably and with my players I don't think those chances gonna convert and that will mean I'll play for a 0-0 all the time and probably will concede as my defenders and goalkeeper are really not in the level of the league. At least thats what im thiking and thats why im "afraid" to give the possession away.

I don´t totally agree. I play on a counter attack with a mid-small team in Portugal using the Positive mentality and we attack a lot. Also our defensive strategy is well designed and balanced so we do not concede too much even if our defense is not the best on the league (far from it). On the past two matches we suffered 1 goal just from a corner, and it really looked like a desperate move from the opposition that could not attack us properly. And we don´t play for 0-0, in fact we are scoring many goals this season.

However I agree that counter needs good/fast men upfront that are smart to use the spaces that appear. But yes, it looks like you have some of those players - your two natural wingers, for example. Maybe if you combine them with a good striker (fast, good dribbling, good off the ball, good composure) you can score lots of goals on the counter.

Balance is the key here. If you really want to counter you will need a solid defensive strategy (strategy, not instructions) and players that can use the space well. It won´t always work, of course, but a possession strategy wouldn´t too.

Be aware that playing on counter needs a lot of adapting. I usually change the instructions as soon as I get a lead, otherwise my team could be easily pinned on our own half. And I would probably need to change if we suffer a goal, too. 

Choosing the kind of football your team will play may be another key here.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Tsuru

[ich bin Lior]

15 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

I don´t totally agree. I play on a counter attack with a mid-small team in Portugal using the Positive mentality and we attack a lot. Also our defensive strategy is well designed and balanced so we do not concede too much even if our defense is not the best on the league (far from it). On the past two matches we suffered 1 goal just from a corner, and it really looked like a desperate move from the opposition that could not attack us properly. And we don´t play for 0-0, in fact we are scoring many goals this season.

However I agree that counter needs good/fast men upfront that are smart to use the spaces that appear. But yes, it looks like you have some of those players - your two natural wingers, for example. Maybe if you combine them with a good striker (fast, good dribbling, good off the ball, good composure) you can score lots of goals on the counter.

Balance is the key here. If you really want to counter you will need a solid defensive strategy (strategy, not instructions) and players that can use the space well. It won´t always work, of course, but a possession strategy wouldn´t too.

Be aware that playing on counter needs a lot of adapting. I usually change the instructions as soon as I get a lead, otherwise my team could be easily pinned on our own half. And I would probably need to change if we suffer a goal, too. 

Choosing the kind of football your team will play may be another key here.

Would you share with me your tactics or the thinking behind it ? Maybe it will suit my players.

 

Do you guys believe that you can be a mastermind tactician in football manager and change the whole tactic around every match to counter the opossition strengthes and weaknesses or the game just does not suit this type of thinking ?

[energumene]

Citation

So I started playing this tactic in the relegation playoff:

The first thing I think is maybe you should tweak your defensive instructions a little bit. Switch back to something simpler, standard D-Line and LOE... maybe some more pressing ? Beware the counter-press instruction too, can be risky especially if you're not a top side in your league.

Same for your In possession TIs. Keep it simple : short passing, work ball into box, higher tempo if you want ... But you have 4 wing players and ask your team to play narrow and through the middle, so maybe you juste continually hit the opposite wall and keep bouncing on it ? why don't you want to use width a little more ? can be good, stretches the opposition defense.

 I don't see anything wrong with the positive mentality, it just increases a bit your players mentality, could be a good thing if there is space to exploit with the ball. But I'd tweak the two BPD to regular CB. You'll have maybe more control on the game, less silly passing choices from your backs.

You have an overly agressive midfield duo, IMO. A CM-A and a MEZ-S, they push it hard upfront and leave spaces behind them in a crucial area. Are you often hit on the counter ?

 

 

[ich bin Lior]

I've took all your advice and implemented it to the current tactic.

Even when I win games, the other team were better and they are a division below me !!!

I'm frustrated, I've been playing fm since 2010 and never felt this bad.
 

[Tsuru]

1 hora atrás, ich bin Lior disse:

Would you share with me your tactics or the thinking behind it ? Maybe it will suit my players.

Do you guys believe that you can be a mastermind tactician in football manager and change the whole tactic around every match to counter the opossition strengthes and weaknesses or the game just does not suit this type of thinking ?

Well, everything started when I followed the assistant advice and started playing in a 4-4-2 Wing Play. Then I observed that all scored goals were from counters instead of crossing, and then I realized that I had quick and speedy strikers that would work well on counters. With the help I found here at the forums I have been developing a low block tactic: defend deep and deny space, attract the opponents and then use speed to score on the break.

I started using a 4-4-2, then migrated to a 4-4-1-1, back to a 4-4-2 and now I found more stability on a 4-1-4-1 DM Wide, in which I have 5 at the midfield and 3 upfront to use the speed during counters.  This is the formation right now - I use a normal GK on Defend:
 

Positive mentality. Instructions: Counter, Regroup, Distribute Quickly, Lower Line of Engagement, Get Stuck In. The idea is simple: retreat to attract the opponents, but when they enter our own half I have to negate space and steal the ball quickly.

As Positive mentality has some good default instructions for counter, more are not necessary.

Normally when I am winning I add Shorter Passing and Play Narrow (which Rashidi says the game reads as "Retain Possession" and it really does). Sometimes I also remove Counter, sometimes I don´t. I am also considering Tight Marking to deny even more space to opponents.

Playing against Portugal´s bigger teams is very hard, I lost all matches. But in the first quarter we won 72% of the points against teams that are on our same level, and with the results of the second quarter I think this numbers will raise.

You can change your strategy depending on the other team, but that would need a lot of micromanaging and a lot of time. I don´t like this idea although I know it can work.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Tsuru

[Experienced Defender]

9 minutes ago, ich bin Lior said:

 

9 minutes ago, ich bin Lior said:

ven when I win games, the other team were better and they are a division below me !!!

I'm frustrated, I've been playing fm since 2010 and never felt this bad

I don't know how good your team is, but here are some observations you may want to consider:

- the midfield combo of a mezzala and attacking CM is pretty risky defensively, as both roles are attack-minded, which can make you very vulnerable to opposition (counter)attacks through the middle

- work ball into box is an instructions that requires players who are good both technically and mentally (otherwise, they can easily lose the ball in a dangerous area and thus allow the opposition to launch a quick counter)

- instructions such as direct passing, higher tempo and pass into space are also likely to lead to needless and cheap losses of possession, which can easily prove costly given the defensive weakness of your midfield setup

- also, these 3 instructions do not really go hand in hand with the work ball into box, because the latter is possession-oriented whereas these 3 are more suited to fast-transition styles

On the other hand, the right side of your setup looks really good - FB support + CM attack + winger support make for optimal tactical balance in that particular area 

The left side also does not look bad when viewed in isolation. However, when the CM pair is taken into consideration, defensive weakness becomes obvious.

In conclusion, the first (and perhaps even only) thing you need to do in terms of roles and duties is - change the mezzala into a more conservative role (holding or covering type). 

Once you sort that one out, you need to tweak instructions so as to make them better suited to the setup of roles and duties.

[energumene]

il y a une heure, ich bin Lior a dit :

I've took all your advice and implemented it to the current tactic.

Even when I win games, the other team were better and they are a division below me !!!

I'm frustrated, I've been playing fm since 2010 and never felt this bad.
 

Yeah but you did not change the main weakness, the midfield duo, as I told you to.

And you changed lots of TIs, switched from shrot passing to direct. This leads me to think maybe you're not sure enough of what you want your team to do with the ball ?

Edited December 17, 2020 by energumene

[Flußkrebs]

At the risk of overcomplicating things, the main thing that jumped out at me is that you have 3 relatively similar profiles of central midfielders as your best players, who to me all look like technical/playmakery types but relatively lightweight.

With these technical midfielders I would personally be tempted to play 2 or 3 of them in midfield at once and then make sure you have a really capable holding midfielder or two behind them. Do you have a decent holding, or at least ball winning midfielder? Someone with good tackling, determination, workrate, positioning? If not, then as far as I see it you have two decent options:

1) Try and defend by holding the ball

2) Play 3 centrebacks.

The first option will definitely be risky and if you do pull it off will inevitably mean you concede a lot. By that I mean trying to tiki-taka to prevent the opponent winning the ball. I don't think this will result in lots of goals though. But it might give you some decent draws?

Ideally you'd try and play counterattacking football as the underdog in a league stronger than you- "fluid" counter imo as you don't seem to have the speed for more direct counter but you do have some good vision and passing. But without the strength in midfield to absorb pressure I don't see how you could do this.

 

[ich bin Lior]

Ok guys, I have no clue what I was thinking and how it makes my team play better. but it does, I listened to my assistant who said 442 wingplay is good for us and I just went crazy wanting to see how the Wide Target Man works.

 

Results so far:

 

Only problem is I'm getting so many Yellow cards, have no idea how to stop it.

Edited December 17, 2020 by ich bin Lior

[Flußkrebs]

 

15 hours ago, ich bin Lior said:

Ok guys, I have no clue what I was thinking and how it makes my team play better. but it does, I listened to my assistant who said 442 wingplay is good for us and I just went crazy wanting to see how the Wide Target Man works.

 

Results so far:

 

Only problem is I'm getting so many Yellow cards, have no idea how to stop it.

On 16/12/2020 at 20:45, Justified said:

If it works then don't fix it. 

Managed to get yourself out of a bad run of results, and with a pretty unorthodox tactic? Love to see it  Tactic could definitely be tweaked a little to balance it out but who cares!

 

[Justified]

You could just switch the MC's around. I know it's a little switch but one that makes sense. Doesn't need to be a BWM either seeing as you're not enganging far up the pitch anyways. See if that helps out at all.

[energumene]

Il y a 22 heures, ich bin Lior a dit :

Ok guys, I have no clue what I was thinking and how it makes my team play better. but it does, I listened to my assistant who said 442 wingplay is good for us and I just went crazy wanting to see how the Wide Target Man works.

 

Results so far:

 

Only problem is I'm getting so many Yellow cards, have no idea how to stop it.

This look good. Better. But seriously consider to lower the left WB task, because your left side is overly offensive that way. What about a right WB - A and a left WB support or automatic task ? Would be more overall balanced. 

Maybe still a little bit risky in the midfield too, with this box-to-box pushing forward and this BBM who presses aggresively. If he's dribble past there is a deadly space just in front of your defence for your opponent to exploit. What about a CM - D or even drops him to the DM spot ?

Edited December 18, 2020 by energumene