Does anyone else feel that young players are not progressing?

[MechNeo]

Does anyone else feel the same?

https://i.gyazo.com/73be7c0ee0a456fc8ed0092fddfcdc1f.png

[Jaye]

Doing just fine for me. 

If one player isn't progressing, then maybe it's the player.

If all your young players aren't progressing, then you need to check your facilities, coaches, training schedules and how you're managing the players' game time.

[04texag]

I've been really happy with my youngsters, but it's been a focus, to bring in high potential 16-17 year olds, and we spend comp prize money on upgrading all facilities. Like said above, is it one player or a lot of players? Can you post a screenshot of your facilities window?

 

[ozilthegunner]

I'm not sure how old the players are that @Jaye is sharing, and I haven't looked too much into this just yet, but I am a bit worried that younger players in my first team (these are between 18-22) aren't progressing as well as they should. In particular, though, I am wondering if it is due to my training regime.

Playing in the premier league, and trying to win the league, means that I have 2 games a week and use a lot of match prep training (at least for the more difficult games). I am worried this means I am not providing players (and youngsters in particular) with enough proper training to help them develop. I've started to pull back a bit to help with this, but haven't had enough time to see if it is working. So, I am just curious if others have done the work on this a bit...

[Kharza_FM]

1 minute ago, ozilthegunner said:

I'm not sure how old the players are that @Jaye is sharing, and I haven't looked too much into this just yet, but I am a bit worried that younger players in my first team (these are between 18-22) aren't progressing as well as they should. In particular, though, I am wondering if it is due to my training regime.

Playing in the premier league, and trying to win the league, means that I have 2 games a week and use a lot of match prep training (at least for the more difficult games). I am worried this means I am not providing players (and youngsters in particular) with enough proper training to help them develop. I've started to pull back a bit to help with this, but haven't had enough time to see if it is working. So, I am just curious if others have done the work on this a bit...

Under 18 training matters

Over 18 and game time is what matters - BUT only if they have good performances.. so these players that aren't developing what has there avg ratings been?  They also need to get at least 20 games a season

[ozilthegunner]

1 hour ago, Kharza_FM said:

Under 18 training matters

Over 18 and game time is what matters - BUT only if they have good performances.. so these players that aren't developing what has there avg ratings been?  They also need to get at least 20 games a season

Yes, I know all this and the players are receiving sufficient game time and doing well enough. But that 'game time is what matters' does not say that training doesn't matter, right? So, it is still possible for a player to progress poorly (or slowly) even if they are getting decent game time and performing well, if they also aren't getting sufficient training.

To illustrate: My younger players may have 3-5 attributes that are decently increasing, but the pictures that @Jaye shared show significant growth in many attributes. Again, I don't know enough of the context of that, but if we assume those players are in a similar position, age-wise, to my own, then he is getting much more development than me

[Kharza_FM]

4 minutes ago, ozilthegunner said:

Yes, I know all this and the players are receiving sufficient game time and doing well enough. But that 'game time is what matters' does not say that training doesn't matter, right? So, it is still possible for a player to progress poorly (or slowly) even if they are getting decent game time and performing well, if they also aren't getting sufficient training.

To illustrate: My younger players may have 3-5 attributes that are decently increasing, but the pictures that @Jaye shared show significant growth in many attributes. Again, I don't know enough of the context of that, but if we assume those players are in a similar position, age-wise, to my own, then he is getting much more development than me

Fair enough but there are so many variables that go into player development..

• Training Facilities
• Training performance (praising and criticizing them too based on performances)
• CA vs PA (do they even have the capability to improve)
• Personality
• Training Schedules and Training Load
• Game time

So outside of game time which of the above don't you totally have covered?

[04texag]

1 hour ago, ozilthegunner said:

Yes, I know all this and the players are receiving sufficient game time and doing well enough. But that 'game time is what matters' does not say that training doesn't matter, right? So, it is still possible for a player to progress poorly (or slowly) even if they are getting decent game time and performing well, if they also aren't getting sufficient training.

To illustrate: My younger players may have 3-5 attributes that are decently increasing, but the pictures that @Jaye shared show significant growth in many attributes. Again, I don't know enough of the context of that, but if we assume those players are in a similar position, age-wise, to my own, then he is getting much more development than me

@zlatanera uses almost exclusively match prep training and pretty sure he gets good youth development, although not on 21 yet. maybe he can chime in here?

[NotSoSpecialOne]

I'm finding it a bit of a challenge this time out to juggle playing time to hit that sweet spot (mostly out of a reluctance to send out high potential players on loan, who aren't yet really good enough to feature enough in the first team) but definitely getting some nice development. Been in the lower leagues until this current season so I haven't exactly had great staff or facilities available to me, but here's some examples I'm plenty happy with.

Pepe is 19

Unfortunately this second guy suffered a pretty bad injury this season so his development has stalled (note the big drop in bravery because of the injury). Still only 19 so when he finally returns, he could continue progressing.

Tomas Rodriguez' progress has stalled a bit this season, as he hit the magical age of 18 and can't yet command enough games so he will go out on loan for the remainder of the season.

I'll add a final example, this time a 'finished' product in 22 year old Juan Rodriguez (no relation to Tomas above) who starts out in Coruna's u19s squad in 20/21 season. Not a wonderkid or even slated to be an established top flight defender but still, nice progress.

So no, I definitely don't feel like young players aren't progressing.

Edited December 19, 2020 by NotSoSpecialOne

[Jaye]

18 hours ago, ozilthegunner said:

To illustrate: My younger players may have 3-5 attributes that are decently increasing, but the pictures that @Jaye shared show significant growth in many attributes. Again, I don't know enough of the context of that, but if we assume those players are in a similar position, age-wise, to my own, then he is getting much more development than me

I use the One Schedule To Rule Them All for my first team, as inspired by @Rashidi. It's a broad schedule that covers the majority of attributes, including physical, and works on role/tactical familiarity. Every now and then, I swap in extra offensive or defensive training, just to change it up, but mostly I just use the single schedule because I'm lazy. When you're playing as a big club and you've got games every three days it's annoying having to rotate in four separate schedules to cover everything (so attacking one week, defending one week, etc.) so why not just use the one instead? Makes life a lot easier.

To my mind, the team training isn't as important individual training and mentoring for youth development. You can leave team training to the Ass Man and still get good development.

I train players in the roles I use in my system and then use additional focus to boost other desirable attributes. This way, they're working on the attributes needed to play the role while at the same time working on weaker parts of their game. For Braganca, I worked on his mental attributes a lot with Defensive Positioning and Attacking Movement so he could play any support role. For Fernandes, I worked on his physicals and intelligence so he would be harder to shake off the ball and make the best decisions on the pitch. 

Units are important, too. Braganca, as a DLP, defaulted into the defensive unit which means he would have worked more on his defending than his attacking, which wasn't what I wanted from him. He had to in the offensive unit. I had an elite full back (Nuno Mendes) with world class potential who I actually trained in both units at different times in his development so he could develop both sides of his game. 

It doesn't always work, mind you. I have a striker called Thiago Tomas who had great starting attributes, has played plenty of games, scored goals, has a good personality... and hasn't developed at all. So either his personality is still lacking and he needs mentoring, his PA isn't as high as my coaches think, or he's a very late bloomer. 

Finally, and this is just a personal thing, I avoid training players in roles that require a lot of attributes, like complete forward, roaming playmaker, complete wing-back, and so on. On paper, it might seem a good idea to train as many attributes as you can at once, but in reality you're just spreading his development over too many areas. Unless you've got a very high PA youngster, players become jack of all trades. So in the early years (15-19), I focus on specialisation. If I get a young striker with good finishing, first touch and acceleration, but he can't dribble or jump, there's no point in trying to round him out. I might as well lean into his strengths and make them even better. 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Jaye

[zlatanera]

11 hours ago, 04texag said:

@zlatanera uses almost exclusively match prep training and pretty sure he gets good youth development, although not on 21 yet. maybe he can chime in here?

I think I'm too far behind to offer any specifics. What I would say is I definitely found that post-FM18 development was - rightly - more of a mixed bag. For every guy with simply stunning improvements with first team football, some plateaued age 19.

Whoever mentioned average rating, that would be supported by what I saw: strikers, who in my dominant side were scoring for fun, got great ratings and strong development, as did full backs, whilst central defenders were more of a mixed bag and as such didn't seem to improve as much. 

[ozilthegunner]

3 hours ago, Jaye said:

I use the One Schedule To Rule Them All for my first team, as inspired by @Rashidi. It's a broad schedule that covers the majority of attributes, including physical, and works on role/tactical familiarity. Every now and then, I swap in extra offensive or defensive training, just to change it up, but mostly I just use the single schedule because I'm lazy. When you're playing as a big club and you've got games every three days it's annoying having to rotate in four separate schedules to cover everything (so attacking one week, defending one week, etc.) so why not just use the one instead? Makes life a lot easier.

To my mind, the team training isn't as important individual training and mentoring for youth development. You can leave team training to the Ass Man and still get good development.

I train players in the roles I use in my system and then use additional focus to boost other desirable attributes. This way, they're working on the attributes needed to play the role while at the same time working on weaker parts of their game. For Braganca, I worked on his mental attributes a lot with Defensive Positioning and Attacking Movement so he could play any support role. For Fernandes, I worked on his physicals and intelligence so he would be harder to shake off the ball and make the best decisions on the pitch. 

Units are important, too. Braganca, as a DLP, defaulted into the defensive unit which means he would have worked more on his defending than his attacking, which wasn't what I wanted from him. He had to in the offensive unit. I had an elite full back (Nuno Mendes) with world class potential who I actually trained in both units are different times in his development so he could develop both sides of his game. 

It doesn't always work, mind you. I have a striker called Thiago Tomas who had great starting attributes, has played plenty of games, scored goals, has a good personality... and hasn't developed at all. So either his personality is still lacking and he needs mentoring, his PA isn't as high as my coaches think, or he's a very late bloomer. 

Finally, and this is just a personal thing, I avoid training players in roles that require a lot of attributes, like complete forward, roaming playmaker, complete wing-back, and so on. On paper, it might seem a good idea to train as many attributes as you can at once, but in reality you're just spreading his development over too many areas. Unless you've got a very high PA youngster, players become jack of all trades. So in the early years (15-19), I focus on specialisation. If I get a young striker with good finishing, first touch and acceleration, but he can't dribble or jump, there's no point in trying to round him out. I might as well lean into his strengths and make them even better. 

Thanks for this. I have been meaning to watch Rashidi's video on training but haven't done so yet. I'll take a look and perhaps that will help a bit.

I also may just be wrong about my situation. I'm playing with Arsenal and only halfway into the second season. Saw some good growth for Saka and one or 2 others in the first season. Some others (like Reiss Nelson) do have lower than desired determination and only a balanced personality. Been trying to improve that with mentoring, but it has been a slow process (however, it worked quickly for Saka, which may explain his better growth). So, perhaps things are fine, I'm just expecting too quick of development  (which did happen in older versions more, so I think that primed me)