Train weaker foot

[JamieTC13]

Is there any way to train a players weaker foot as it was in the players individual  training trait last year and all the other years but this year i cant find it no where and i thought that was a very good thing as i like my players to swap flanks at times and training there weaker foot made it work better 

[DarklinkCL]

I don't know why they decided to remove this, it's very annoying.

[Daveincid]

I haven't checked if its really gone, but if that's the case it's logical to me. IRL a player will learn theese abilities at a younger age than fm represents them ingame. Telling a 22yo to develop his weaker foot doesn't sound realistic to me.

[tiotom92]

2 hours ago, jckc221013jamie said:

Is there any way to train a players weaker foot as it was in the players individual  training trait last year and all the other years but this year i cant find it no where and i thought that was a very good thing as i like my players to swap flanks at times and training there weaker foot made it work better 

I asked this question previously and they said they'd removed it.

[goranm]

42 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

I haven't checked if its really gone, but if that's the case it's logical to me. IRL a player will learn theese abilities at a younger age than fm represents them ingame. Telling a 22yo to develop his weaker foot doesn't sound realistic to me.

Attackers train their weaker foot regularly. CR7's left foot in his Man Utd days wasn't as good as in his RM days. The percentage of his goals scored with the left foot is

Man Utd 11%

RM 16.5%

Juventus 16%

So clearly an improvement in his 20s and 30s from when he was a teen. Also, the RM and Juventus percentages are even higher if penalties are ignored.

Edited December 20, 2020 by goranm

[Daveincid]

Gerade eben schrieb goranm:

Attackers train their weaker foot regularly. CR7's left foot in his Man Utd days wasn't as good as in his RM days. The percentage of goals scored by his left foot is

Man Utd 11%

RM 16.5%

Juventus 16%

So clearly an improvement in his 20s and 30s from when he was a teen.

CR7 is an extreme example. It can't be taken for the majority. And  a 5% more goal-ratio isn't the world.  And if SI removed it, they had their reasons why they did it. I just can't think of another possibility than they think it's not that realistic. Maybe there is now still a slight improvement possible ingame, but you can't train it specificly. 

[goranm]

8 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

CR7 is an extreme example. It can't be taken for the majority.

Why not? Does training do something else for CR7 that it doesn't do for other players?

Quote

And  a 5% more goal-ratio isn't the world.

It's a 5% increase relative to all goals. If you look at left-foot goals and normalize to 100 goals, that means that he scored 16/100 whereas he previously scored 11/100 with his left foot, so a 50% increase in his left-foot goals.

Edited December 20, 2020 by goranm

[Daveincid]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb goranm:

Why not? Does training do something else for CR7 that it doesn't do for other players?

It's a 5% increase in TOTAL goals. If you normalize to 100 goals, that means that he scored 16/100 whereas he previously scored 11/100 with his left foot, so a 50% increase in his left-foot goals.

Like I said, SI had it's reasons to remove it. I just guessed what the reasons could be thats all.

[Tajerio]

Players will still train their weaker foot, but you can't give them specific instructions to do it. IIRC, any session that includes training on Technique can have some effect on developing the weaker foot.

[Jervaj]

7 hours ago, Tajerio said:

Players will still train their weaker foot, but you can't give them specific instructions to do it. IIRC, any session that includes training on Technique can have some effect on developing the weaker foot.

SI basically confirmed this.

 

They mentioned that players will still train in their own time, specially if they are professional, but as far as the manager is cocerned technique training gives the most chances to improve it as he says.

[herne79]

The Trait never actually improved a player's weaker foot.  Only once the Trait had successfully been learned would a player start to develop his weaker foot.  Learning the Trait just acted as an "unlock" to start a player down the road of weaker foot development.

Essentially what SI have done now is remove the Trait learning phase and gone straight to the actual weaker foot development phase by wrapping it up into Technique training.

[Xavier Lukhas]

Le 21/12/2020 à 09:43, herne79 a dit :

The Trait never actually improved a player's weaker foot.  Only once the Trait had successfully been learned would a player start to develop his weaker foot.  Learning the Trait just acted as an "unlock" to start a player down the road of weaker foot development.

To be honest, most of the time I wouldn't even want a player to train his weaker foot. Not because it's not useful IRL in football (which I strongly believe it is), but because players do a pretty poor job at using their weaker foot in the ME in my experience. In terms of weighting as according to the FM21 pre-game Editor, it's often between the 3rd and the 5th most costly attribute for any position that isn't defender or GK. As such, I found that the huge CA cost was better spent basically in any other important attribute for the role/position. Having a poor weak foot isn't as much as a problem in FM as it should be IMO, mostly because IME (again) players with a good weak foot don't use it as much as they could.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Xavier Lukhas

[JamieTC13]

58 minutes ago, Xavier Lukhas said:

To be honest, most of the time I wouldn't even want a player to train his weaker foot. Not because it's not useful IRL in football (which I strongly believe it is), but because players do a pretty poor job at using their weaker foot in the ME in my experience. In terms of weighting as according to the FM21 pre-game Editor, it's often between the 3rd and the 5th most costly attribute for any position that isn't defender or GK. As such, I found that the huge CA cost was better spent basically in any other important attribute for the role/position. Having a poor weak foot isn't as much as a problem in FM as it should be IMO, mostly because IME (again) players with a good weak foot don't use it as much as they could.

I like using it, say for instance if your in lower league and you have a right winger with much weaker left foot but you need to play him on the left side he is then using he's weaker foot to cross ect  

[Xavier Lukhas]

il y a 2 minutes, jckc221013jamie a dit :

I like using it, say for instance if your in lower league and you have a right winger with much weaker left foot but you need to play him on the left side he is then using he's weaker foot to cross ect  

That's the thing really and what I was saying: IME, the players usually go out of their way not to use their weaker foot. In theory I would absolutely love wingers that have both feet, especially played as WM(A). In practice, they hardly use their weak foot even if they're supposed to be Either footed, and with the CA cost of having a good weak foot, it's better for those winger to just be faster, outpace their defenders and cross with their better foot regardless for example.

[JamieTC13]

4 minutes ago, Xavier Lukhas said:

That's the thing really and what I was saying: IME, the players usually go out of their way not to use their weaker foot. In theory I would absolutely love wingers that have both feet, especially played as WM(A). In practice, they hardly use their weak foot even if they're supposed to be Either footed, and with the CA cost of having a good weak foot, it's better for those winger to just be faster, outpace their defenders and cross with their better foot regardless for example.

That's what I don't get because then wouldn't the player kinder find it a bit awkward to cross the ball as they would have to stop and try and get it on there proper foot to cross the ball say if its a right winger playing on the left, but I get what you are saying actually

[herne79]

1 hour ago, Xavier Lukhas said:

To be honest, most of the time I wouldn't even want a player to train his weaker foot. Not because it's not useful IRL in football (which I strongly believe it is), but because players do a pretty poor job at using their weaker foot in the ME in my experience. In terms of weighting as according to the FM21 pre-game Editor, it's often between the 3rd and the 5th most costly attribute for any position that isn't defender or GK. As such, I found that the huge CA cost was better spent basically in any other important attribute for the role/position. Having a poor weak foot isn't as much as a problem in FM as it should be IMO, mostly because IME (again) players with a good weak foot don't use it as much as they could.

Unless it's been changed for FM21*, CA "cost" is usually overstated by us managers because in game players cannot develop their weaker foot past "reasonable" (9, 10 or 11 on the 1-20 scale).  So yes, going from 1-20 would cost a fair amount of CA when using an editor but without an editor players can't actually do that.

Anyway, I do the same - I never bother with weaker foot development as I've never seen an issue either.

* I have asked SI for confirmation if this has changed for FM21.  In all previous versions the ability to develop a weaker foot beyond "reasonable" is as I mention above.

[Xavier Lukhas]

il y a une heure, jckc221013jamie a dit :

That's what I don't get because then wouldn't the player kinder find it a bit awkward to cross the ball as they would have to stop and try and get it on there proper foot to cross the ball say if its a right winger playing on the left, but I get what you are saying actually

Players in FM aren't very agile in their movement, they unfortunately often have to stop to do something. FM21 has a bit smoother animations so it's less apparent than earlier version, but you still have players hitting crosses straight at their defenders. As a result, I find it's better to just comprehensively beat the defender before putting a cross in. Nevermind that the 3D ME is an interpretation of the calculated numbers behind the scenes, so it can display some baffling football because it's not always able to reflect the numbers behind it. Anyway, that's another can of worms.

il y a une heure, herne79 a dit :

Unless it's been changed for FM21*, CA "cost" is usually overstated by us managers because in game players cannot develop their weaker foot past "reasonable" (9, 10 or 11 on the 1-20 scale).  So yes, going from 1-20 would cost a fair amount of CA when using an editor but without an editor players can't actually do that.

Anyway, I do the same - I never bother with weaker foot development as I've never seen an issue either.

* I have asked SI for confirmation if this has changed for FM21.  In all previous versions the ability to develop a weaker foot beyond "reasonable" is as I mention above.

I mostly agree. For FM21, the Editor now displays Attribute Weighting... or whatever that means because I don't know what the numbers mean. IIRC by doing simple maths, the cost of each point in weak foot is around 1.47 for a ST, position for which it is the 3rd most expensive attribute. In other words, my opinion is that not only it's difficult to improve, but each point doesn't do much in the ME while costing the player a lot in CA. I would've actually preferred that the Trait/PPM was still available so that players never improve on it without my approval!

[Alone_in_the_KoЯner]

On 20/12/2020 at 23:56, goranm said:

Why not? Does training do something else for CR7 that it doesn't do for other players?

imagine a soulless vessel devoid of any inner sense of spirit brain power or even acknowledgement of being. now imagine what CR7 actually is and you will understand the absolute almighty spirit runs in his veins to ensure he has became a mythical figure in the sense his name gives defenders torrid sweat filled dreams in his own lifetime.

[Alone_in_the_KoЯner]

On 21/12/2020 at 08:43, herne79 said:

The Trait never actually improved a player's weaker foot.  Only once the Trait had successfully been learned would a player start to develop his weaker foot.  Learning the Trait just acted as an "unlock" to start a player down the road of weaker foot development.

Essentially what SI have done now is remove the Trait learning phase and gone straight to the actual weaker foot development phase by wrapping it up into Technique training.

what aspect of technique would this fall under? as i came across this post when searching for how to develop a weaker foot so have a deep thirst to know what the best route is

i am going with ball control as an additonal focus in training for a specific player as i feel that is the most general ground to take, but i stand to be enlightened

[autohoratio]

On 24/12/2020 at 17:10, Xavier Lukhas said:

I would've actually preferred that the Trait/PPM was still available so that players never improve on it without my approval!

I wonder if the trait "Avoids using weaker foot" could double as a "Doesn't attempt to develop weaker foot technique" flag - one for a feature request perhaps?