under review Low Player Ratings After Update

[ajw10]

Yeah the more I've played this recently the more I can see that this issue has barely been fixed.

CM's are an issue instead of FB's. Goals and assists make no real difference to ratings.

When you combine the issue with player ratings with the many, many flaws with how stats are tracked and it's basically impossible to know fi your player is playing well or not. We are essentially playing this game blind and it's just not good enough from SI

[JamieTC13]

Tackle attempts doesn't seem to be logging as well along with key tackles this part of the game seems to be completely broken, I cant wait for this to fix this as this is quite a big part of the game for me as i use this info for signing players ect 

Edited January 18, 2021 by jckc221013jamie

[yorkie87]

I’m noticing low stats such as key tackles and dribbles. Does this mean they are not happening within the game or are they just not being registered in the analytical data? 

[albanie.]

I'm surprised that some are still finding this game breaking post-hotfix? In my opinion, there is still a ratings issue. I'm not sure how you can assess a central defender's performance, for instance, without knowing how many key tackles he's made or even how many tackles he's attempted.

The only position I cannot seem to get a good rating out of at any point is anyone playing in the DM strata. For the time being I can live with that, as I can live with ratings that I don't truly believe in, as it isn't damaging morale, transfer value, etc. at the same time.

I am praying for another hotfix that deals with match stats very soon though.

[ThomasHK1979]

1 hour ago, albanie. said:

I'm surprised that some are still finding this game breaking post-hotfix? In my opinion, there is still a ratings issue. I'm not sure how you can assess a central defender's performance, for instance, without knowing how many key tackles he's made or even how many tackles he's attempted.

The only position I cannot seem to get a good rating out of at any point is anyone playing in the DM strata. For the time being I can live with that, as I can live with ratings that I don't truly believe in, as it isn't damaging morale, transfer value, etc. at the same time.

I am praying for another hotfix that deals with match stats very soon though.

Before the first patch the rating system worked better. I cannot comprehend how SI messed this up. 

[Weller1980]

3 hours ago, albanie. said:

I'm surprised that some are still finding this game breaking post-hotfix? In my opinion, there is still a ratings issue. I'm not sure how you can assess a central defender's performance, for instance, without knowing how many key tackles he's made or even how many tackles he's attempted.

The only position I cannot seem to get a good rating out of at any point is anyone playing in the DM strata. For the time being I can live with that, as I can live with ratings that I don't truly believe in, as it isn't damaging morale, transfer value, etc. at the same time.

I am praying for another hotfix that deals with match stats very soon though.

Check this screen and tell me there isn't a problem with player ratings. One complete season and only four strikers with an average rating over 7 is this right? And in fairness 2 of those 4 players started less than 10 games. This is game breaking and I don't get why more people are not noticing it?

Edited January 19, 2021 by Weller1980

[TheGrimWombat]

Now I have started a new save since the hotfix and I haven't noticed big problems (yes some things can still be improved but I can play again and enjoy the game) so reading this still I'm wondering was the hotfix save game compatible?

[ThomasHK1979]

5 minutes ago, TheGrimWombat said:

Now I have started a new save since the hotfix and I haven't noticed big problems (yes some things can still be improved but I can play again and enjoy the game) so reading this still I'm wondering was the hotfix save game compatible?

I started a new game after the hotfix. Slightly better for wingbacks. The rest is still bugged. 

[ajw10]

I give up

[Pasonen]

4 hours ago, ajw10 said:

I give up

@Jemal WisemanIt seems headers lost statistic is pulling rating down. This brings another thought is there too many high long passes? Maybe there should be more low long passes? Is the logic to pass small guy low passes and not high balls not good enough?

Edited January 20, 2021 by Pasonen

[Weller1980]

Has there been any feedback from SI on player ratings?

[ThomasHK1979]

21 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

Has there been any feedback from SI on player ratings?

Yes. They made a hot fix a week ago. That didnt do much. 

[Ipswich Staying Up]

Having played with the Hotfix since release it has definitely improved fullback ratings but there is undoubtedly still issues with midfield and forwards... Unless major events (goal/assist) occur it's impossible for players to achieve decent ratings despite the team performing well. Any idications that this is being reopened for review??  Or is the Under Review label still there from last time?!!

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Ipswich Staying Up

[Weller1980]

9 minutes ago, Ipswich Staying Up said:

Having played with the Hotfix since release it has definitely improved fullback ratings but there is undoubtedly still issues with midfield and forwards... Unless major events (goal/assist) occur it's impossible for players to achieve decent ratings despite the team performing well. Any idications that this is being reopened for review??  Or is the Under Review label still there from last time?!!

 

This ^ Id  also like to know if this is still under investigation. 

[Abysmal]

9 hours ago, Weller1980 said:

This ^ Id  also like to know if this is still under investigation. 

Theres a lot of complaints about the issue on the general feedback thread, I also started an entirely different thread and got quite a few responses but theres been absolutely nothing from SI as far as im aware. Just baffling to me how the hot-fix hasn't really fixed it.

[mfjin]

Again, adding my voice as an avid FM player that this player ratings issue is preventing me from playing the game. Disappointing to not get a response from SI here. Really unbelievable, will make sure I think twice before buying FM in the future

[rumian83]

IMO the next update will be after January transfer window closed. I hope that player ratings issue will be once fixed. I would like to see also general ME update when strikers will get the ball more often than now.

I also saw the thread that wingers should pass the ball to strikers more often instead of shooting from tight angle, I agree with this.

 

[yorkie87]

I will now just be playing football manager games from February to February once the final update has been released. Too much hassle stop starting games. 

[Weller1980]

As per normal silence from SI. I think quite a few us would like to know if this player rating issue is still being worked on for the feb/march update. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Weller1980

[Abysmal]

5 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

As per normal silence from SI. I think quite a few us would like to know if this player rating issue is still being worked on for the feb/march update. 

Exactly the issue. I said this in the general feedback thread that if we just got some sort of feedback from SI that it is still being investigated it would stop a lot of the complaining IMO. Plenty of mods are active on the forums responding to other issues but nothing on the ratings.

[ThomasHK1979]

So this is the the season average ratings. In a season where I destroyed every opponent. I won the Serie A, I won the Coppa Italia and I beat Liverpool in the Champions League final.
These ratings are ridicilous!

 

So here is the Team and players of the year.

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by ThomasHK1979

[Pasonen]

37 minutes ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

So this is the the season average ratings. In a season where I destroyed every opponent. I won the Serie A, I won the Coppa Italia and I beat Liverpool in the Champions League final.
These ratings are ridicilous!

 

So here is the Team and players of the year.

 

Best eleven including DR with 4 starting games too. 

[ThomasHK1979]

21 minutes ago, Pasonen said:

Best eleven including DR with 4 starting games too. 

Yes. Its horrible! So frustrating that @Si Duffyjust ignoring this. 

[JamieTC13]

This is crazy how long this as been left, I will definitely not be buying the game next year until i know there's not no problems, it seems like every year we are dealing with some kind of problem and its not on

[Abysmal]

Seems like there is a bigger issue in player ratings with those playing with a more direct, attacking passing style of play. My main tactic was playing quite direct, fast and attacking and whilst I was winning games I was getting poor ratings, however ive recently changed to a shorter passing that is less attacking and there has been a slight uptick in player ratings, especially central midfielders.

 

[Neil Brock]

So as part of the work done for FM21 was a new ratings system which aimed to reward players taking into account their active roles and positions. Previously the game weighted goals and assists heavier than anything else which meant you had attacking players often with a sizeable rating compared to other positions, or centre-backs who scored a few headers a season boosted more than those being defensively solid.

The average of performance is now 6.8 - this means any player above this level is performing to an above average level. Someone playing to 7 - 7.2 is playing very well and anything above that fantastically well. The players recognise this - a player won't have an awful morale if they have an average rating of 6.9 - they're still playing above average and the game recognises this.

We're aware that some stats aren't being picked up correctly and due to changes within our stats system, some 'key' aspects now are harder to achieve. This is part of the balancing we'll continue to do both in our next major update and for all future versions of the game. 

If you have a specific example where a player's average rating for a singular performance doesn't make sense, please do raise it in it's own thread ideally with an individual pkm showing it and we can take a look - that's the best way for us to look at player ratings. However do bear in mind the match engine now in live code is behind the one we're working on internally which is a work in progress. This is why some bugs raised within the match engine forums, whilst helpful at pointing us at certain areas of the ME, can't always be specifically used as examples for tweaks or changes. 

Thanks. 

[DP]

Would probably be easier - and better for everyone - if match ratings didn’t have a decimal then. Far easier to understand 6 being average and 7 being good with 8 being very good, 9 being excellent and 10 being perfect and very rare.

Then have the season average as a decimal. Would be more impactful when judging performance, taking out ambiguity and be easier on the eye. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by DP

[Davidog]

1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

So as part of the work done for FM21 was a new ratings system which aimed to reward players taking into account their active roles and positions. Previously the game weighted goals and assists heavier than anything else which meant you had attacking players often with a sizeable rating compared to other positions, or centre-backs who scored a few headers a season boosted more than those being defensively solid.

The average of performance is now 6.8 - this means any player above this level is performing to an above average level. Someone playing to 7 - 7.2 is playing very well and anything above that fantastically well. The players recognise this - a player won't have an awful morale if they have an average rating of 6.9 - they're still playing above average and the game recognises this.

We're aware that some stats aren't being picked up correctly and due to changes within our stats system, some 'key' aspects now are harder to achieve. This is part of the balancing we'll continue to do both in our next major update and for all future versions of the game. 

If you have a specific example where a player's average rating for a singular performance doesn't make sense, please do raise it in it's own thread ideally with an individual pkm showing it and we can take a look - that's the best way for us to look at player ratings. However do bear in mind the match engine now in live code is behind the one we're working on internally which is a work in progress. This is why some bugs raised within the match engine forums, whilst helpful at pointing us at certain areas of the ME, can't always be specifically used as examples for tweaks or changes. 

Thanks. 

Just to confirm stats not being picked up correctly for example dribbles, key tackles etc. Doesn't that in turn affect the match ratings system?

[ajw10]

So why are we only now just hearing about this change in ratings? 

[mfjin]

@Neil Brock Appreciate the response here. One question before I go and resume my save - are there plans to address the lower ratings discrepancy between the FME and QME? 

[Mcfc1894]

3 hours ago, ajw10 said:

So why are we only now just hearing about this change in ratings? 

They included details about that in the new features before the game came out 

[evilpimp972]

Il y a 16 heures, Neil Brock a dit :

So as part of the work done for FM21 was a new ratings system which aimed to reward players taking into account their active roles and positions. Previously the game weighted goals and assists heavier than anything else which meant you had attacking players often with a sizeable rating compared to other positions, or centre-backs who scored a few headers a season boosted more than those being defensively solid.

The average of performance is now 6.8 - this means any player above this level is performing to an above average level. Someone playing to 7 - 7.2 is playing very well and anything above that fantastically well. The players recognise this - a player won't have an awful morale if they have an average rating of 6.9 - they're still playing above average and the game recognises this.

We're aware that some stats aren't being picked up correctly and due to changes within our stats system, some 'key' aspects now are harder to achieve. This is part of the balancing we'll continue to do both in our next major update and for all future versions of the game. 

If you have a specific example where a player's average rating for a singular performance doesn't make sense, please do raise it in it's own thread ideally with an individual pkm showing it and we can take a look - that's the best way for us to look at player ratings. However do bear in mind the match engine now in live code is behind the one we're working on internally which is a work in progress. This is why some bugs raised within the match engine forums, whilst helpful at pointing us at certain areas of the ME, can't always be specifically used as examples for tweaks or changes. 

Thanks. 

I have 2 things I want to point out though

- Why, if 7 is extremely good, in non full detail leagues, the best players are close to 8s for a whole season? Are they superhuman?

- Can you explain the reasoning behind a key pass and a corner kick? Because it seems like you can put anyone taking set pieces to bump up his rating. I just dont get it.

[ThomasHK1979]

2 hours ago, evilpimp972 said:

I have 2 things I want to point out though

- Why, if 7 is extremely good, in non full detail leagues, the best players are close to 8s for a whole season? Are they superhuman?

- Can you explain the reasoning behind a key pass and a corner kick? Because it seems like you can put anyone taking set pieces to bump up his rating. I just dont get it.

Exactly my question. Salah can play a season with around 7.90 average in non full detail leagues. But when I play Liverpool, even though i am winning PL and CL, Salah can play with around 7.00 to 7.10.

[Abysmal]

23 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

So as part of the work done for FM21 was a new ratings system which aimed to reward players taking into account their active roles and positions. Previously the game weighted goals and assists heavier than anything else which meant you had attacking players often with a sizeable rating compared to other positions, or centre-backs who scored a few headers a season boosted more than those being defensively solid.

The average of performance is now 6.8 - this means any player above this level is performing to an above average level. Someone playing to 7 - 7.2 is playing very well and anything above that fantastically well. The players recognise this - a player won't have an awful morale if they have an average rating of 6.9 - they're still playing above average and the game recognises this.

We're aware that some stats aren't being picked up correctly and due to changes within our stats system, some 'key' aspects now are harder to achieve. This is part of the balancing we'll continue to do both in our next major update and for all future versions of the game. 

If you have a specific example where a player's average rating for a singular performance doesn't make sense, please do raise it in it's own thread ideally with an individual pkm showing it and we can take a look - that's the best way for us to look at player ratings. However do bear in mind the match engine now in live code is behind the one we're working on internally which is a work in progress. This is why some bugs raised within the match engine forums, whilst helpful at pointing us at certain areas of the ME, can't always be specifically used as examples for tweaks or changes. 

Thanks. 

As stupid as it sounds, you may want to look into changing the colour of an average rating of 6.8 or above. Currently it appears just grey and white until they average a 7 and above – The previous benchmark for a good performance – but if you are now saying that 6.8 is above average, it may be time to reflect that in the colour and place them green. 

Makes it much easier to visually recognise if somebody is having a good season IMO.

[Abysmal]

Also, it seems that no matter what, players in the opposition team that I am facing get above 7 ratings even if they lose by a few goals? In the same match I struggle to get two players above a 7 with a win but the other team who lose have good average ratings? Just doesnt make sense.

[owenFM99]

It also doesn't seem right for the difference between a player having an average season (averaging 6.8) to a player having a great season (averaging 7.2) to be so minimal when you are using a scale of 0-10. If an average season for a player is 6.8, a top performing player should be averaging at least 7.5 or above as in previous iterations of the game. Such a small gap doesn't leave much room for spread of ratings either, as all players will likely be confined within .6 or .7 of each other

[Abysmal]

22 hours ago, mfjin said:

@Neil Brock Appreciate the response here. One question before I go and resume my save - are there plans to address the lower ratings discrepancy between the FME and QME? 

I agree with this, QME tends to get much higher match ratings. Especially seen in my game where my u18s and u23s are all averaging great ratings using the same tactic as my main team.

[mhaffy]

3 hours ago, Abysmal said:

I agree with this, QME tends to get much higher match ratings. Especially seen in my game where my u18s and u23s are all averaging great ratings using the same tactic as my main team.

Agreed. I don't not remember differences like this in previous versions and wonder if the QME is basically same as usual with changes being implemented in ME and FME only. Given FM is a stats based game this needs sorting....along with lots of other issues like Key tackles effectively disappearing in FME due to changes in stats definition following introduction of xG.....

[DavyDepuydt1]

Quick Match  engine & non-playable leagues need to be adjusted to have ratings that are more in the range of full detail matches...

[ThomasHK1979]

@Neil Brock

Look at these screens. The first is after a season were I won the treble. I was playing a high tempo gegenpress style.

 

 

Then I tried to change my style. Same formation, but instead of high tempo and counter, I play slow tempo and short passing. The the ratings goes up???

Edited January 28, 2021 by ThomasHK1979

[Mikal]

4 hours ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

@Neil Brock

Look at these screens. The first is after a season were I won the treble. I was playing a high tempo gegenpress style.

 

 

Then I tried to change my style. Same formation, but instead of high tempo and counter, I play slow tempo and short passing. The the ratings goes up???

I don't think it's a good exercise to compare a whole season's average rating (40+ appearances) with the average rating of up to 5 games. A bit like claiming the game is broken if Leao doesn't score over 60 goals in 40 appearances because he has 8 in 5 for you at the moment.

[ThomasHK1979]

1 hour ago, Mikal said:

I don't think it's a good exercise to compare a whole season's average rating (40+ appearances) with the average rating of up to 5 games. A bit like claiming the game is broken if Leao doesn't score over 60 goals in 40 appearances because he has 8 in 5 for you at the moment.

It should be set in the context of the ton of posts in here about the problem. 

[Abysmal]

On 28/01/2021 at 11:37, ThomasHK1979 said:

@Neil Brock

Look at these screens. The first is after a season were I won the treble. I was playing a high tempo gegenpress style.

 

 

Then I tried to change my style. Same formation, but instead of high tempo and counter, I play slow tempo and short passing. The the ratings goes up???

Yeah I mentioned the same, seems to me that the quicker, more direct you play the lower your ratings. Switched my tactics in december from a direct style to a shorter passing style and by the end of the season the player ratings improved quite a lot. 

Can definitely say that the player rating issue is due to style of play.

[ThomasHK1979]

Does anyone an ides of When de Update is coming?

[Hallothere]

If we are lucky, end of feb / start of mar....... but i would count on any big changes to the match engine.....probably just transfers....since SI doest seem to mark topics as underreview any more.

 

they are not that present in the threads anymore

[ImDaWeasel]

Just now, Hallothere said:

If we are lucky, end of feb / start of mar....... but i would count on any big changes to the match engine.....probably just transfers....since SI doest seem to mark topics as underreview any more.

 

they are not that present in the threads anymore

Theres been precursors for an update on steam today supposedly. Usually a sign an update is coming very shortly. Wouldn't be surprised to see the transfer update happening separately this year with the amount of bugs including this one still in.

[mhaffy]

On 27/01/2021 at 10:34, DavyDepuydt1 said:

Quick Match  engine & non-playable leagues need to be adjusted to have ratings that are more in the range of full detail matches...

I agree with this but I believe that FME V QME issue is about more than just average ratings. The problem is that the FME game stats and ratings from the games your team plays in are totally out of line with the QME stats/ratings of players outside of the league that you are playing in. This renders using stats/ratings useless for scouting/comparative purposes.

FM provides "unrivalled simulation gaming" enabling you to "experience the closest thing there is to being a real football manager". As part of this you would expect the stats produced by the FME to be be sensible versus their real life equivalent. Furthermore you would expect the stats from the QME to be reasonably consistent with those of the FME (albeit they are generated differently) and hence their real world equivalent. Hoping that this is addressed with the forthcoming major patch that is anticipated to accompany the transfer window database update.

[TomCampbe11]

I'm still getting defensive rating issues. Still requires a goal or assist to get anything over a 6.7/8.

[ThomasHK1979]

Anyone tested if theres a difference?

[timbo1983]

I haven't noticed a difference in player ratings at all, if anything I feel they have gotten worse. I am top of the EPL and all 3 of my players who rotate through the DM position have an average rating of 6.6 - 6.78. Also, despite being top of the league only 5 of my players who have made more than 10 appearances have an average rating over 7.1 with the highest being 7.18. When I look at stats and analysis during the game, I can find no reason why these players ratings are so low. These players are not misplacing tonnes of passes, or losing tackles etc. So it seems the stats have no bearing on the average rating, or vice versa? I Honestly can't work it out this year. I guess just have to accept that having a great season means your best players will average under 7.2, and the average rating throughout your entire squad will be somewhere between 6.6 and 7.2 for the season. It does make it hard to tell which players are actually playing poorly during a match as they sometimes have the same rating in a 3-0 win as they do in a 3-0 loss......