So frustrated, how to understand game mechanism?

[Bluebird123]

1 hour ago, flauta kicma said:

Again, you will tell me that I am doing same mistakes.

 

But thing is that I am not doing it on purpose. How is it possible ot have 1 shot???? And what is different approach? I just dont get the term of trying something new, I am in FM's stone age

Zero threat from midfield, two wingers with very attacking mentality (due to you playing on positive) which means they're going to be so far ahead of your two static midfielders that build up is going to be very difficult. 

 

Puig has abysmal work rate and isn't very fast, he would excel further up the pitch with little to no defensive responsibility. As a DLP in a counter pressing 442 your midfield is going to get torn to shreds. I think you really need to address your squads strengths and weaknesses before coming up with another tactic otherwise you're going to continue to run into problems. Also you're using 442 in every tactic, why is this? I don't think you have the players to pull it off

[rtnn]

First of all, build a tactic, any tactic (fairly simple one though) and don't change it at all for two or three games. Just watch and try to figure out how your opposition exploits it and how is your best attacks built. 

Watch those three games on comprehensive and occasionally on full. On full view you can see things that don't make it into highlights. I like to watch the first 10 minutes of each half on full, then on comprehensive or extended. If I'm clearly struggling I watch even more on full to see what is the problem. 

And why three whole games without any changes? The chances are you'll face three different approaches and tactics. Maybe your tactic is great against a high pressing 4-2-3-1 but you struggle against a cautious possession tactic? Figure it out!

After those three games, start making SMALL changes. Try to fix the things that went wrong. Don't randomly click instrunction and keep the changes small so you can keep up with what works and what doesn't. 

Did the opposition score most their goals with fast counters after you lost the ball in their third? Figure out how to not lose the ball so much (reduce risk, lower tempo, offer support for players) AND/OR make sure you have enough defending cover (enough defending roles, lower DL, lower or higher pressing intensity). Etc. 

Does the opposition press you so well that you can't build from the back and end up losing the ball? Figure out where they allow space when they press and try to exploit it (add passing directness, take off build from back TI, pass into space, set goalkeepers distribution). Etc.

And remember every match is not made equal. Adapt to your opposition with these small changes but try to build your own identity on top of it. If you want short passing high tempo game. Stick to it and make small changes around it. Let your players get familiar with that style of play and see if your performance gets better. If after a season you underperformed, maybe try something else for the next season. 

 

Sidenote: check out the RateMyTactic webapp, it's not to be 100% relied on but it can help you to find out what partnerships work in what conditions. 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by rtnn

[ACKCHYUALLYSOCCERCOACH]

Multiple people have posted excellent advice in this thread and instead of taking any of it onboard, you have completely discarded it, ripped up your tactic and started multiple new ones making the same exact mistakes as you previously did while complaining that you just don't understand the magical secret to the game. 

There is no secret. You are not listening to anyone's advice.

Pick a default tactic. Watch your team play on comprehensive highlights. You very possibly could lose. DO NOT RIP UP YOUR TACTIC AND START AGAIN. What went wrong? Take note of how you lost the ball when you had possession. Take note of how they hurt you when they had possession. Take note of how you hurt them. How were the goals scored? Were you hit on the counter-attack through the flanks because your fullbacks were too projected? Did they play around your press and score a tap in after 20 consecutive short passes? Did your centre-back constantly launch long balls forward only for the opposition to win the first and second balls every time? Make little changes game by game until you start to see something resembling your desired style of play.

Study your team and then by all means ask as many questions as you want but what you're doing now is pointless. This forum is filled with knowledgeable people that would love to help you but first you have to help yourself.

[wixxi]

Stop trying to fit square pegs into round holes. Every tactic you've posted is using midfielders that have no business playing in a double pivot, case in point Puig is literally unplayable in a 2-man midfield, he has terrible positioning, tackling, marking etc. so all defensive responsibility will be on Braganca = exposed defensively.

As much as you are worrying about tactics, having the correct players for the system and their role in that system is just as, if not more important. And as others have pointed out people have given you very in-depth responses and are getting you to ask yourself questions about the tactic rather than just hold your hand and design a tactic for you, but you seem to be disregarding everything just to create a new tactic and ask why it doesn't work.

Also you for some reason seem to be hellbent on figuring out the 'logic' of the game and asking what systems are good to play in the engine rather than focusing on fundamental football principles that apply in real life and transferring to the game.

Edited January 10, 2021 by wixxi

[Hilly1979]

Being brutally honest I think this thread has run its cause, people can’t help you if you can’t help yourself. You’ve posted that many tactics that we don’t even know what you you want to do.

To me this thread could have been wrapped up with one answer...... there is no win now button, I think that is what your asking.....

[flauta kicma]

8 hours ago, ACKCHYUALLYSOCCERCOACH said:

Multiple people have posted excellent advice in this thread and instead of taking any of it onboard, you have completely discarded it, ripped up your tactic and started multiple new ones making the same exact mistakes as you previously did while complaining that you just don't understand the magical secret to the game. 

There are many posts, mainly critics about my approach (but I do understand them, you are right mostly). 

You all said that I need to check out about my weakness and strengths, of course I checked them, I know it and know what my Sporting squad is capable of.

But I do not agree that I am randomly trying something new without listening to advices, every change is based on some of advices, point is that I am not trying to understand magical secret, I only want to know the main logic, without it I am going to made same mistakes, and I still didnt understand it. I am trying to implement things, trying to have logical moves, that is why I am posting so much tactics, not because of stubbornes but because I DONT KNOW. I just dont know the ways how to play possesion based football, or gegen, or against weaker or more stronger sides, it is not.

For two months, as experienced played with let's say average intelligence, getting many advices and having strong will to learn -  I didnt understand main mechanism. That is on game. Not on me.

Game should be constructed in a way that you can understand it. Ok, now you can say to me like I am puting blame on others, but I stand by it, game should have clearer "modus vivendi", it should be hard to master it and easy to be okay in it.

I hugely resent to this game that they made it in this way. Game is not concrete, I didnt get any clear advices from you, because game is not clear, there is no clear ways of playing. Thats why I have feeling like I need to hit jackpot when I am trying to implement tactic.

Before few years you will tell me try more wider with lower tempo, try IF because W are not liked by match engine, etc. And now I get the advices like watch games, see trends, adapt, etc. But that means so much struggling in the process, and so many adapintg before each game. That is nice for someone with time, but game is not life, there are no need to be like this, to be simulation. I have very stressful job and I dont need to come home from work and thinking about such details playing game, it should be like it was before few years. Obivosuly that is reason they are losing fans from edition to edition, they deteoriated this game, 

So, i dont want to tire you no more, obvisouly there are some procedures that I need to figure out on my own, but I dont want anyone to think I am only making tactics without any logic, every tactic is made of my knowledge in combinations with things I read on internet, but if everything goes well when I am playing for example  FBsu instead WBsu, than it means that you have millions such combinations, and with all knowledge in the world and all "seeing your strengths and weakness", there is no enjoyment in it.

Thank you all for advices.

[B3nnet7]

On 09/01/2021 at 00:12, flauta kicma said:

@trgtoztrk

thank you for understanding me. I am sorry Experienced defender really think I should play another game

 

Also, thanks to @Pipster, @Chris2509, @NotSoSpecialOne - for helping me.

 

unfortunately, problem is the same, I am feeling like a child when he closes ayes and hopes for the best when I am tweaking. I truly believe the game itself should've done it better. They had it all, they succeed to ruin it. When I master game I will say that again. CM 01/02 you could manage in three days, but it was never to easy or boring. And you knew what you were doing... 

I'm sorry but they haven't ruined the game at all, the game has advanced and is more realistic than ever, that's their goal, to make it realistic. Is football management easy? No otherwise everyone would do it and they wouldn't make the money they do. If you want a simple game then play FMT or Fifa. It can be hard work sometimes but it's a great pay off when you finally get it right, get the right tactic, signings etc. 

[rtnn]

1 hour ago, flauta kicma said:

try IF because W are not liked by match engine

There has never been such a thing as 'liked by match engine'. IF is a better option in some setups, the W in some.

Use IF if you need a wide attacker attacking space and cutting inside. Don't use him if you already have enough goalscoring players and the player doesn't have space to cut into. You need to think about your team as a whole and where/how you want to create space and then attack that space. The same principle goes in every positions.

As an example, you had a attacking winger on one of your tactics with a defensive full back behind him. Did that look ok to you when you watched your games? I would imagine your winger was quite lonely up there attacking the flank because he had no support. The defensive full back stays very deep and the attacking winger is very far forward so they can't link up well. A supporting wingback on the other hand would get further forward and offer a passing option for the winger. If you made the winger on support and the wingback on attack, the wingback would make overlapping runs and they would interact in that way. An inverted wingback on support/attack would give an underlapping option if you want to stretch the play wide and then use the space created in the middle. There is so many different combinations that can work. Please tinker around in thw RateMyTactic web app. Put your tactic in it and see which combinations doesn't work and where is your solidity lacking. Try different roles and try to get it to a 5* tactic.

 

Also remeber to look at player attributes like many have pointed out. A two man midfield pivot like in a 4-4-2 needs to have the physical attributes to run the midfield and defensive attributes to screen the backline. They also need a good amount of workrate, teamwork, bravery etc to put in the effort needed. Oliver/Puig etc is definetily not that player. Rakitic is decent but he is getting slower with age so he need a proper workhorse next to him.

 

Edit2: You can always download earlier versions of the game if those suited you better. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by rtnn

[gunnerfan]

13 hours ago, rtnn said:

First of all, build a tactic, any tactic (fairly simple one though) and don't change it at all for two or three games. Just watch and try to figure out how your opposition exploits it and how is your best attacks built. 

Watch those three games on comprehensive and occasionally on full. On full view you can see things that don't make it into highlights. I like to watch the first 10 minutes of each half on full, then on comprehensive or extended. If I'm clearly struggling I watch even more on full to see what is the problem. 

And why three whole games without any changes? The chances are you'll face three different approaches and tactics. Maybe your tactic is great against a high pressing 4-2-3-1 but you struggle against a cautious possession tactic? Figure it out!

After those three games, start making SMALL changes. Try to fix the things that went wrong. Don't randomly click instrunction and keep the changes small so you can keep up with what works and what doesn't. 

Did the opposition score most their goals with fast counters after you lost the ball in their third? Figure out how to not lose the ball so much (reduce risk, lower tempo, offer support for players) AND/OR make sure you have enough defending cover (enough defending roles, lower DL, lower or higher pressing intensity). Etc. 

Does the opposition press you so well that you can't build from the back and end up losing the ball? Figure out where they allow space when they press and try to exploit it (add passing directness, take off build from back TI, pass into space, set goalkeepers distribution). Etc.

And remember every match is not made equal. Adapt to your opposition with these small changes but try to build your own identity on top of it. If you want short passing high tempo game. Stick to it and make small changes around it. Let your players get familiar with that style of play and see if your performance gets better. If after a season you underperformed, maybe try something else for the next season. 

 

 

 

 

@flauta kicma I hope you will take the above piece of advice onboard because it is the best way to start. I would add just one other: if and when you do take rtnn's advice, do it starting a new save, so it's a clean slate for your side. Follow the steps in building a tactic. And, most important, don't get rattled if at first you lose.

It's ironic that you're frustrated at not being able to discover the "key" to the match engine. For as long as I've played FM (going back to when it was CM), most players who were serious about tactics lamented that the match engine should be "more like a real match". Now, it is. 

Good luck.

[Chris2509]

2 hours ago, flauta kicma said:

it should be like it was before few years. Obivosuly that is reason they are losing fans from edition to edition, they deteoriated this game, 

"Football Manager 2021 Was The Best-Selling Digital Game For Black Friday Week In The UK"

https://www.thegamer.com/football-manager-2021-digital-best-seller/

"Football Manager 2021 is the fastest in the series to hit one million copies sold"

https://www.pcgamesn.com/football-manager-2021/fm2021-sales

 

I'm sorry you feel this way, but your approach to this thread has been very bad.

You post a tactic, people give you very good and precise advice - next thing we see is you posting a new team and a new tactic, disregarding everything that has been said.

 

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, flauta kicma said:

For two months, as experienced played with let's say average intelligence, getting many advices and having strong will to learn -  I didnt understand main mechanism. That is on game. Not on me.

Game should be constructed in a way that you can understand it. Ok, now you can say to me like I am puting blame on others, but I stand by it, game should have clearer "modus vivendi", it should be hard to master it and easy to be okay in it.

I hugely resent to this game that they made it in this way. Game is not concrete, I didnt get any clear advices from you, because game is not clear, there is no clear ways of playing. Thats why I have feeling like I need to hit jackpot when I am trying to implement tactic

 

2 hours ago, flauta kicma said:

I have very stressful job and I dont need to come home from work and thinking about such details playing game, it should be like it was before few years. Obivosuly that is reason they are losing fans from edition to edition, they deteoriated this game

After statements like these - which have no place in the tactical forum - I definitely have to lock this thread once and for all, because it makes no sense anymore. Enough is enough, really. 

Quite a few people have been trying to help you in all possible ways, but obviously to no avail. I even advised you to consider playing some simpler and easier game that will not frustrate you so much, but you took my honest and well-intentioned suggestions in a negative way. Because your approach is negative in the first place (otherwise, you would have already learnt enough to master the tactical creation to a reasonable degree, like most people who come here for help and advice). 

Admittedly, FM is not for everyone. But thankfully, the video-games market is free and large enough for everyone.