Playing On The Edge: Dominating Possession with only one CB

[RenegadeMaster]

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

Most recent results, Jan 2023, my 2nd season using the tactic with Real Sociedad.

Feeling much more confident against other top LaLiga teams. Although there are still times when we have more difficulty against ultra-attacking sides like Real Mardid. Especially AWAY from home. But then beating Barca AWAY like this gives me a lot of hope and excitement going forward. After alot of tweaking and some frustration it finally starting to feel like the best tactic I ever developed or played with on any FM game. And an absolute pleasure to play even when we lose. Seeing the kinds of performances it is capable of. Before now I never really watched matches on anything more than extended or comprehensive mode but now I sometimes even switch to full highlights, like in that Barcelona match. Was on the edge of the seat for the whole 90 minutes. Especially when we won it in this fashion. Many good things to take away from it. Especially the interplay between our striker and the AMC. It doesnt show in his ratings but Marcos Antonio made several nice passes to help with both Oyarzabal and Camara goals. All of our goals came from open play too. In the end, we dominated xG and possession against one of the elite possession-hungry teams in the world. While only using one true CB  Feels great.

Thanks to all you, like @Impacto , @RenegadeMaster and others who have been giving me suggestions and tweaks on this thread all this time. I integrated many of your suggestions in this improved version below. It is probably never going to be "final" as it's looking more and more like a long-term project/"labour of love". But this new version now definitely feels way more efficient and dangerous than it was in the beginning.

As I mentioned above I'm trying to strip down some of the "possession overkill" instructions that played too much to the defensive side's advantage. So now it still plays a possession-focused Total Football tactic but more edge and intent. And I try to give more control to my players on deciding what kind of passes and tempo to play. So as @Impacto mentioned above, having very intelligent players with great mentals such as Anticipation, Decions, ect will help alot. As well as having "one-twos" for all of you attackers and midfielders. And even IWBs too will benefit from this great trait. 

Great to see. I’ve had a few days this week, hopefully I’ll have some time to try it out tomorrow! 

[crusadertsar]

And the PIs I use is the "Close down more" on the front four attackers - split block. "Stay Wider" on my IWs. And "move into channels" and "get further forward" on AMC. "Stay wider" on BBM. And "close down less" and "hold position" on my CB.

[Whelan102]

22 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Most recent results, Jan 2023, my 2nd season using the tactic with Real Sociedad.

Feeling much more confident against other top LaLiga teams. Although there are still times when we have more difficulty against ultra-attacking sides like Real Mardid. Especially AWAY from home. But then beating Barca AWAY like this gives me a lot of hope and excitement going forward. After alot of tweaking and some frustration it finally starting to feel like the best tactic I ever developed or played with on any FM game. And an absolute pleasure to play even when we lose. Seeing the kinds of performances it is capable of. Before now I never really watched matches on anything more than extended or comprehensive mode but now I sometimes even switch to full highlights, like in that Barcelona match. Was on the edge of the seat for the whole 90 minutes. Especially when we won it in this fashion. Many good things to take away from it. Especially the interplay between our striker and the AMC. It doesnt show in his ratings but Marcos Antonio made several nice passes to help with both Oyarzabal and Camara goals. All of our goals came from open play too. In the end, we dominated xG and possession against one of the elite possession-hungry teams in the world. While only using one true CB  Feels great.

Thanks to all you, like @Impacto , @RenegadeMaster and others who have been giving me suggestions and tweaks on this thread all this time. I integrated many of your suggestions in this improved version below. It is probably never going to be "final" as it's looking more and more like a long-term project/"labour of love". But this new version now definitely feels way more efficient and dangerous than it was in the beginning.

As I mentioned above I'm trying to strip down some of the "possession overkill" instructions that played too much to the defensive side's advantage. So now it still plays a possession-focused Total Football tactic but more edge and intent. And I try to give more control to my players on deciding what kind of passes and tempo to play. So as @Impacto mentioned above, having very intelligent players with great mentals such as Anticipation, Decions, ect will help alot. As well as having "one-twos" for all of you attackers and midfielders. And even IWBs too will benefit from this great trait. 

You expletive, this has drawn me back in after your original post got me to buy the game. I don’t have much time to play the game and I was becoming incredibly frustrated with the stupidity of the goals conceded. 
 

Going to wait for the winter patch to try again.

[crusadertsar]

3 hours ago, Whelan102 said:

You expletive, this has drawn me back in after your original post got me to buy the game. I don’t have much time to play the game and I was becoming incredibly frustrated with the stupidity of the goals conceded. 
 

Going to wait for the winter patch to try again.

You should give it a chance definitely. It's worth it. I also find that's it's worth sticking with the save for at least a few seasons until you get a couple of newgen wonderkids. Most of these players are an improvement over the regular players at the start. They also have unique (and sometimes extreme) distributions of attributes that is hard to find otherwise. Now that my youth academy is in full gear, my team is starting to fill out with such players. I'll have to give a few examples when I do next update.

[tpalan]

On 10/02/2021 at 20:52, crusadertsar said:

Most recent results, Jan 2023, my 2nd season using the tactic with Real Sociedad.

Feeling much more confident against other top LaLiga teams. Although there are still times when we have more difficulty against ultra-attacking sides like Real Mardid. Especially AWAY from home. But then beating Barca AWAY like this gives me a lot of hope and excitement going forward. After alot of tweaking and some frustration it finally starting to feel like the best tactic I ever developed or played with on any FM game. And an absolute pleasure to play even when we lose. Seeing the kinds of performances it is capable of. Before now I never really watched matches on anything more than extended or comprehensive mode but now I sometimes even switch to full highlights, like in that Barcelona match. Was on the edge of the seat for the whole 90 minutes. Especially when we won it in this fashion. Many good things to take away from it. Especially the interplay between our striker and the AMC. It doesnt show in his ratings but Marcos Antonio made several nice passes to help with both Oyarzabal and Camara goals. All of our goals came from open play too. In the end, we dominated xG and possession against one of the elite possession-hungry teams in the world. While only using one true CB  Feels great.

Thanks to all you, like @Impacto , @RenegadeMaster and others who have been giving me suggestions and tweaks on this thread all this time. I integrated many of your suggestions in this improved version below. It is probably never going to be "final" as it's looking more and more like a long-term project/"labour of love". But this new version now definitely feels way more efficient and dangerous than it was in the beginning.

As I mentioned above I'm trying to strip down some of the "possession overkill" instructions that played too much to the defensive side's advantage. So now it still plays a possession-focused Total Football tactic but more edge and intent. And I try to give more control to my players on deciding what kind of passes and tempo to play. So as @Impacto mentioned above, having very intelligent players with great mentals such as Anticipation, Decions, ect will help alot. As well as having "one-twos" for all of you attackers and midfielders. And even IWBs too will benefit from this great trait. 

Ihor, you're a genius.

[frukox]

@crusadertsar I started to get results with this simple tactic as Liverpool:

           PFA

IWS     AMS       T

       CMA CMD

              HB

IWBS      CDD   FBS

I got a really solid performance against Man City in the cup game.

10 shots on goal out of 15. All of them are inside the box except a screamer by Firmino. It shows it's going to be a lot better when the team gets used to the tactic.

[crusadertsar]

1 hour ago, frukox said:

@crusadertsar I started to get results with this simple tactic as Liverpool:

           PFA

IWS     AMS       T

       CMA CMD

              HB

IWBS      CDD   FBS

I got a really solid performance against Man City in the cup game.

10 shots on goal out of 15. All of them are inside the box except a screamer by Firmino. It shows it's going to be a lot better when the team gets used to the tactic.

That looks like a nice balanced set up mate. I can't even imagine how good this tactic would be with a top team like Liverpool 

[frukox]

Just now, crusadertsar said:

That looks like a nice balanced set up mate. I can't even imagine how good this tactic would be with a top team like Liverpool 

By the way, results are really good. For example, 4-0 against Chelsea after 2-1 extra-time win, a mid-block with fast transition style. I have to note that Salah and Oxy(T) are tearing through defences!:)

What I realized is the fact that CMD(Henderson) pressed really late than I like. This created space for the opposition when applying upper mid press. Therefore, I'm testing a CMS with Hold Position. What I hope is he's going to be the pivot linking defence to attack while defence-wise he's going to be compact with our pressing.

Another tweak I'm testing another FBS on the left flank as my IWS(Mane) goes into box immediately due to his traits so to keep width on the left flank. This should allow me to create some extra space in the middle for others to exploit.

 

[crusadertsar]

So it's the last few games of the 2022-2023 season. And we just had another dismantling of Barcelona. 4-1 this time. Again not even close. We simply dominated them. We are sitting comfortably in 5th position and there are three more games left against more inferior opposition so finishing 4th and getting Champions League football next season is still a possibility. 

I would like to use this post to bring attention to what I believe is one of the best aspects of the game. Its also why I think more "unusual" tactics like my 3-4-3 get better over time, the deeper you get into your game. That is once the "newgen" players start showing up.

I have played three years into my Real Sociedad save and while a lot of the well-known "real" players are still dominating headlines, there have been some surprising changes. As is to be expected in any Football Manager game that allows the possibility of alternate football worlds. In my game Real Madrid has become an absolute goal-scoring powerhouse. Which is to be expected as they managed to amass some great attacking talent. In addition to their own superstars Vinicius Junior and aging Hazard and Benzema (joining Lille this summer) they now have Salah, Bernardo Silva, Icardi and Anthony Martial. 

Playing their 4-3-3 DM formation, they manage to score the most goals this season with 114 (next closest was Barca with 97 and then us with 71) while Martial netted 38 of those. Real Madrid also won the league three seasons in a row since I started this game. So its not surprising that to date the best we could manage against them is getting one tie. They are just on another level from Barca. But we are getting closer and we have youth of our side. 

What made our Barcelona victory even more special is that we had 5 young "newgen" players in our First Team squad. Three of the five being homegrown Basque youth that came from our own Academy/Cantera.  

So what makes these young players so special and why are they going to be key in this tactic?

Edited February 14, 2021 by crusadertsar

[crusadertsar]

You see for a tactic like this to work well you will need very specific players to fill out almost every role in the formation. That is why sometimes plugging this tactic into a squad like Chelsea's, Arsenal's or even Barcelona's at the start of the game in 2020 might not yield the ideal results. And that is one of the reasons why I struggled for most of the last two seasons (after the initial AI shock wore off in 1st season and my reputation went up). So if you are lucky you could win some hardware when you first use it with a strong squad and your reputation is relatively low. AI won't know what hit them or how to deal with it. In my save Barcelona who plays with a more attacking 4-2-3-1 against us still does not know how to defend against us. As our last two results against them prove. The only team we really struggle against is Real Madrid but thats simply due to their overwhelming attack. Even parked buses have difficult time against our 3-4-3. Simply because the extra midfielder (for a total of 5) just allow us to dominate the ball like no other formation. And this was Johan Cruyff's initial intent when he first introduced this tactic at Barca. Cruyff always saw playing with 4 at the back as a waste of one player and a tactical overkill. Especially since most of the teams at the time (late 1980s) played with 2 strikers.

Why have 4 defenders when 3 defenders at the back is enough. The key is outnumbering the opposition where it counts, in the midfield. And it's the same in FM21. That 4th player gave Cruyff a chance to have one more midfielder and thus one more striker. 3-4-3 is just a pure attacking formation. Because in his eyes ball possession and attack are the best form of defence.

So why are "newgen" players and having a good youth academy that can churn out talent season after season so important to this tactic? It's rather simple. There are a lot of roles that require players with rather extreme variations in attributes to perform well in this tactic. And unless you are a top world-class club like Real Madrid or Liverpool, it is highly unlikely that you will possess such players at the start of the game. It is true that well-rounded "Total" footballer will do well in this game and will help you with maintaining high possession but you will still need some exceptional players to give this tactic a little push into the "playing on the edge" territory and give your possession the much needed edge. Otherwise you will end up like Barcelona against us.

Thus in the next couple of posts I will be showcasing such players on my team and exactly what they bring to the tactic. Given that they are very unique randomly generated players in my game world, you will not find the exact replicas in your save but there will probably be quite a few with similar qualities especially once you let a few seasons pass by.

So when I wrote earlier that I amassed my Dream team I jumped the gun a little  . My Real Sociedad "Dream Team" are only teenagers now. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by crusadertsar

[crusadertsar]

The first player we will examine is Eder Diez. A homegrown Basque forward who started out as an exceptional Poacher but now I am in the process of retraining him into my left IW. He already possess some very good attributes that make him into one of the best clinical finishers for his age. Once his physical attributes, dribbling and technique catch up, he is going to develop into one of kind inside forward. Especially given his tremendous potential. 

You can see that having access to this kind of player from the start of the game, unless you are a team like Real Madrid is rather unlikely. 

And I cannot stress how important it is to have very clinical finishers in the two IW(A) roles in this formation. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by crusadertsar

[frukox]

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

You see for a tactic like this to work well you will need very specific players to fill out almost every role in the formation. That is why sometimes plugging this tactic into a squad like Chelsea's, Arsenal's or even Barcelona's at the start of the game in 2020 might not yield the ideal results. And that is one of the reasons why I struggled for most of the last two seasons (after the initial AI shock wore off in 1st season and my reputation went up). So if you are lucky you could win some hardware when you first use it with a strong squad and your reputation is relatively low. AI won't know what hit them or how to deal with it. In my save Barcelona who plays with a more attacking 4-2-3-1 against us still does not know how to defend against us. As our last two results against them prove. The only team we really struggle against is Real Madrid but thats simply due to their overwhelming attack. Even parked buses have difficult time against our 3-4-3. Simply because the extra midfielder (for a total of 5) just allow us to dominate the ball like no other formation. And this was Johan Cruyff's initial intent when he first introduced this tactic at Barca. Cruyff always saw playing with 4 at the back as a waste of one player and a tactical overkill. Especially since most of the teams at the time (late 1980s) played with 2 strikers.

Why have 4 defenders when 3 defenders at the back is enough. The key is outnumbering the opposition where it counts, in the midfield. And it's the same in FM21. That 4th player gave Cruyff a chance to have one more midfielder and thus one more striker. 3-4-3 is just a pure attacking formation. Because in his eyes ball possession and attack are the best form of defence.

So why are "newgen" players and having a good youth academy that can churn out talent season after season so important to this tactic? It's rather simple. There are a lot of roles that require players with rather extreme variations in attributes to perform well in this tactic. And unless you are a top world-class club like Real Madrid or Liverpool, it is highly unlikely that you will possess such players at the start of the game. It is true that well-rounded "Total" footballer will do well in this game and will help you with maintaining high possession but you will still need some exceptional players to give this tactic a little push into the "playing on the edge" territory and give your possession the much needed edge. Otherwise you will end up like Barcelona against us.

Thus in the next couple of posts I will be showcasing such players on my team and exactly what they bring to the tactic. Given that they are very unique randomly generated players in my game world, you will not find the exact replicas in your save but there will probably be quite a few with similar qualities especially once you let a few seasons pass by.

So when I wrote earlier that I amassed my Dream team I jumped the gun a little  . My Real Sociedad "Dream Team" are only teenagers now. 

That's amazing work as you said it's a really good formation for keeping possession as long as you can keep the ball or a long ball down the channels you're in trouble, especially in FM20 due to eye-excruciating long-shots or far-post headers by nimble attackers. This is the system after a number of tweaks, it's almost perfect. Let me explain the logic behind it:

Firstly, In FM20, final-third movement is not that intelligent. That's the main reason why it's a bit asymmetrical. It allowed me to create the movement I need in the middle of the park. CFS in the center doesn't really drop deep or roam to the flanks to create space for the oncoming AMC in the final third. So I offset them to create the movement. This opened up the flanks-1 vs 1 duels against their fullbacks or wingbacks. IW stays just wide enough to keep the width first. If he cuts in, FBS goes wide or if IW stays wide, he comes inside to link up with DLPS. On the other flank, TA behaves like a narrow striker but comes from deeper and let me keep possession there with a roaming CMS and a FBS behind. When he cuts in(players here all have the trait of cutting inside) FBS goes forward to offer a crossing option. In the middle of the park, DLPS is the orchestrator in front of a DM. I used a DM on defend duty because I needed someone to shut down space immediately in case of a counterattack. This is risky but as you see, it's risk vs reward situation.

TIs allowed us a possession game but with Positive mentality, they were also willing to pass the odd long ball whenever they please. Dribble Less was really useful to cut down on unnecessary dribbling because I only wanted my front four to do it and they did it to a deadly effect. As I was on Positive mentality, I also wanted to recycle possession until I got a clear shot. WBIB just allowed me to do that. Counterpress was ticked because I had seven players in and around the box. Winning the ball quickly was necessary to prevent any counterattacks immediately due to the aggressive play. Alisson is a world class goalkeeper-irl he's going through a tough time-hope he wşll get over it soon- I let him to start our transitions whether to a defender or to a flank or to our central playmaker. He enabled us to bypass high press immediately to start our deadly attacks. Lastly, our upper-mid block was set up to win the ball before it passes the halfway line to keep pressure on the opposition. A simple tactic for winning possibly everything but it was interesting to play with one CB. Thanks to you for giving me this opportunity:)

and these are the results of this test save. It's incredible but got boring quickly:(-just one unlucky draw. I failed to man-manage my players mentals.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by frukox

[crusadertsar]

44 minutes ago, frukox said:

That's amazing work as you said it's a really good formation for keeping possession as long as you can keep the ball or a long ball down the channels you're in trouble, especially in FM20 due to eye-excruciating long-shots or far-post headers by nimble attackers. This is the system after a number of tweaks, it's almost perfect. Let me explain the logic behind it:

Firstly, In FM20, final-third movement is not that intelligent. That's the main reason why it's a bit asymmetrical. It allowed me to create the movement I need in the middle of the park. CFS in the center doesn't really drop deep or roam to the flanks to create space for the oncoming AMC in the final third. So I offset them to create the movement. This opened up the flanks-1 vs 1 duels against their fullbacks or wingbacks. IW stays just wide enough to keep the width first. If he cuts in, FBS goes wide or if IW stays wide, he comes inside to link up with DLPS. On the other flank, TA behaves like a narrow striker but comes from deeper and let me keep possession there with a roaming CMS and a FBS behind. When he cuts in(players here all have the trait of cutting inside) FBS goes forward to offer a crossing option. In the middle of the park, DLPS is the orchestrator in front of a DM. I used a DM on defend duty because I needed someone to shut down space immediately in case of a counterattack. This is risky but as you see, it's risk vs reward situation.

TIs allowed us a possession game but with Positive mentality, they were also willing to pass the odd long ball whenever they please. Dribble Less was really useful to cut down on unnecessary dribbling because I only wanted my front four to do it and they did it to a deadly effect. As I was on Positive mentality, I also wanted to recycle possession until I got a clear shot. WBIB just allowed me to do that. Counterpress was ticked because I had seven players in and around the box. Winning the ball quickly was necessary to prevent any counterattacks immediately due to the aggressive play. Alisson is a world class goalkeeper-irl he's going through a tough time-hope he wşll get over it soon- I let him to start our transitions whether to a defender or to a flank or to our central playmaker. He enabled us to bypass high press immediately to start our deadly attacks. Lastly, our upper-mid block was set up to win the ball before it passes the halfway line to keep pressure on the opposition. A simple tactic for winning possibly everything but it was interesting to play with one CB. Thanks to you for giving me this opportunity:)

and these are the results of this test save. It's incredible but got boring quickly:(-just one unlucky draw. I failed to man-manage my players mentals.

 

 

Thanks so much for the valuable insights in looking at the tactic from a different perspective. I'll look to see if I can integrate some of those ideas into my own tactic in FM21. Honestly after playing a lot of possession-style formations in FM20, I think it works even better in FM21. Like you said, movement in the final third has been improved. I especially like your idea of Trequartista on the right flank, as sometimes I feel lack of creativity upfront hurts our chances. 

Also, amazing results and congrats on the undefeated season. That's an impressive accomplishment, even with a team like Liverpool. I guess you beat Arsenal's record 

Edited February 14, 2021 by crusadertsar

[frukox]

7 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Thanks so much for the valuable insights in looking at the tactic from a different perspective. I'll look to see if I can integrate some of those ideas into my own tactic in FM21. Honestly after playing a lot of possession-style formations in FM20, I think it wotks even better in FM21. Like you said movement in the final third has been improved. I especially like your idea of Trequartista on the right flank, as sometimes I feel lack of creativity upfront hurts our chances. 

Also, amazing results and congrats on the undefeated season. I guess you beat Arsenal's record 

I also thank you for your awesome work on these forums and it just inspired me and learned a lot in this save. Hope you can fit them into your save too. Looking forward to seeing your updates:)

[crusadertsar]

So lets continue with my showcase of "newgen porn". Next player is my current choice for Right IW. He is actually currently pushing my veteran Januzaj out of the 1st choice spot, which is especially impressive for a 17 year old Frenchman. Not the tallest or strongest forward but there are some things about him that are very unique and not possible to find in any existing player at the start of the game. Firstly, he is quite versatile with attributes that enables him to play anywhere from striker to AMC, winger on either flank or even a central midfielder. Currently on my right flank he tends to stay wider when playing as a IW (he is predominantly right-footed) but then tends to cuts inside once he is in a more dangerous position in the final third. Given his high mental attributes I actually find such movement preferable to a standard left-footed IW cutting inside. This movement already allowed him to score 5 league goals despite mostly playing as a late substitute so far. The real-life play I see him resembling most is Man United's hard-working wide midfielder Park Ji-Sung. Looking at his current star potential, there is a good chance he might even exceed Park once at his peak.

 

The next player is actually one of the first products of our Cantara, coming through in the class of 2021. He really developed very nicely over the last two years. Of our five teenage wonderkids, Ricardo is probably the closest to being First Team-ready. In my opinion his attributes make him into the next Firminho. Barring any serious injuries he would probably reach that potential or even exceed it since he already has very good technical and mental attributes despite his tender age. Again, at the start of the game it is very difficult to find this kind of player outside of the top teams. The fact that he emerged out of our own academy makes it even sweeter.

 

Speaking of the bright products of Real Sociedad's academy, I cannot help but brag a little about Jose. From the start he was touted by our Head of Youth Development as one of the best players of his generation and the next Fernando Torres. So there is definitely a little pressure on his young shoulders (and his personality doesn't help although I already started mentoring him). Jose is the latest product of our last youth intake (which was actually labelled as a "golden generation" class) and at 16 years old I think he is more than ready for the First Team. He already has appeared as a sub in 4 league games and scored one goal (beating the record for the youngest ever LaLiga goal-scorer). Attribute-wise he might not look too much like Fernando Torres at the moment, but he possess all the key attributes to do well in the wide forward role. And he possess two strong feet. The potential is definitely there. 

 

Arne De Block, our 5th "Dream Team" wonderkid was a 9 million acquisition from Club Brugge. "The Block" is growing into a key member of our midfield and really good long distance shooting specialist, already chipping in with a few long screamer goals. Again in looking at his attribute distribution we see "extreme" values in all the right places. Specifically, high values in his Technique, Composure, Bravery, Teamwork, Work Rate and Balance. It's a trend that you can see in all five players I showcased. And there is a reason for this. Such optimal attribute distribution compliments our possession style and aids in keeping hold of the ball. Especially the Balance attribute. In fact more than average balance is somewhat rare to find in young players when you start a save in 2020. Again unless you are Real Madrid, Inter Milan or Liverpool, or any other world-class team brimming with young talent. But anything is possible with newly-generated players. And any low to mid-level club could acquire players like this with a modest transfer budget. Or even better, nourish them at your own club by investing in your youth facilities. 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by crusadertsar

[Impacto]

On 14/02/2021 at 18:44, frukox said:

That's amazing work as you said it's a really good formation for keeping possession as long as you can keep the ball or a long ball down the channels you're in trouble, especially in FM20 due to eye-excruciating long-shots or far-post headers by nimble attackers. This is the system after a number of tweaks, it's almost perfect. Let me explain the logic behind it:

Firstly, In FM20, final-third movement is not that intelligent. That's the main reason why it's a bit asymmetrical. It allowed me to create the movement I need in the middle of the park. CFS in the center doesn't really drop deep or roam to the flanks to create space for the oncoming AMC in the final third. So I offset them to create the movement. This opened up the flanks-1 vs 1 duels against their fullbacks or wingbacks. IW stays just wide enough to keep the width first. If he cuts in, FBS goes wide or if IW stays wide, he comes inside to link up with DLPS. On the other flank, TA behaves like a narrow striker but comes from deeper and let me keep possession there with a roaming CMS and a FBS behind. When he cuts in(players here all have the trait of cutting inside) FBS goes forward to offer a crossing option. In the middle of the park, DLPS is the orchestrator in front of a DM. I used a DM on defend duty because I needed someone to shut down space immediately in case of a counterattack. This is risky but as you see, it's risk vs reward situation.

TIs allowed us a possession game but with Positive mentality, they were also willing to pass the odd long ball whenever they please. Dribble Less was really useful to cut down on unnecessary dribbling because I only wanted my front four to do it and they did it to a deadly effect. As I was on Positive mentality, I also wanted to recycle possession until I got a clear shot. WBIB just allowed me to do that. Counterpress was ticked because I had seven players in and around the box. Winning the ball quickly was necessary to prevent any counterattacks immediately due to the aggressive play. Alisson is a world class goalkeeper-irl he's going through a tough time-hope he wşll get over it soon- I let him to start our transitions whether to a defender or to a flank or to our central playmaker. He enabled us to bypass high press immediately to start our deadly attacks. Lastly, our upper-mid block was set up to win the ball before it passes the halfway line to keep pressure on the opposition. A simple tactic for winning possibly everything but it was interesting to play with one CB. Thanks to you for giving me this opportunity:)

and these are the results of this test save. It's incredible but got boring quickly:(-just one unlucky draw. I failed to man-manage my players mentals.

 

 

Holy crap, that's insane! I know Liverpool are super strong on FM 20, but man, this is really impressive. I'm definitely trying that. I'm curious to see how my crappy team executes it 

 I love the Treq on the right flank, alwasy wanted to make a Trequartista work. Does he do enough pressing though? That's my only concern. And the idea about the offset is really clever. You basically bypass FMs poor movement patterns by manually creating them. Genius!! 

Do you tell the IW to stay wider, or does he do it naturally? Any particular instructions for the AMa? You mentioned the CMs roams, why not just use a BBM? I guess the CMs gives you more freedom to customize his play, but still, I love the BBM in FM 20 so I'm curious. 

Does the DM drop enough to play as pseudo-CB? In the original version we have the Anchor man do that, and that works really well for me. What is the advantage of the DM? More forward movement maybe? The A is like a DLP with no risky passes for me, perfect for possession play. But maybe the DM offers more? 

Sorry about the tons of questions, I just want to understand the idea behind it. It really fires me up this stuff  And I think I've said it already a million times on this thread, but absolutely love the idea of a 1 CB! 

[frukox]

41 minutes ago, Impacto said:

Holy crap, that's insane! I know Liverpool are super strong on FM 20, but man, this is really impressive. I'm definitely trying that. I'm curious to see how my crappy team executes it 

 I love the Treq on the right flank, alwasy wanted to make a Trequartista work. Does he do enough pressing though? That's my only concern. And the idea about the offset is really clever. You basically bypass FMs poor movement patterns by manually creating them. Genius!! 

Do you tell the IW to stay wider, or does he do it naturally? Any particular instructions for the AMa? You mentioned the CMs roams, why not just use a BBM? I guess the CMs gives you more freedom to customize his play, but still, I love the BBM in FM 20 so I'm curious. 

Does the DM drop enough to play as pseudo-CB? In the original version we have the Anchor man do that, and that works really well for me. What is the advantage of the DM? More forward movement maybe? The A is like a DLP with no risky passes for me, perfect for possession play. But maybe the DM offers more? 

Sorry about the tons of questions, I just want to understand the idea behind it. It really fires me up this stuff  And I think I've said it already a million times on this thread, but absolutely love the idea of a 1 CB! 

Treq I used Salah, Shaqiri or Oxlade there. They were all hardworking so they just tried to shut down passing lanes but I also saw some odd tackles in my defensive third, too. Yeah, I just experimented with it and worked to a devastating effect. Never fear of testing stuff. This tactic evolved from an idea to this with a number of tweaks just by watching matches and pondering over my attacking plan taking players traits into consideration as well. 

An IW stays wider than an IF definitely without any instructions but I instructed him to stay wider to stretch defences a bit better because CFS was always in front of the defence so I needed someone deeper and wider there. When it comes to BBM, that role was more willing to shoot from long distance. I just didn't like it and switched back to a roaming CMS instead. He was always available as a passing option as I set up a possession-oriented style.

AMA was instructed to roam, close down more and tackle harder.

No, it served as a screen to protect the central channel and delayed counterattacks but sometimes he also chose to leave the defensive line to get the ball. That was the plus.

No problem, mate. Learning this game is very hard without reading or asking stuff so feel free!:)

Edited February 16, 2021 by frukox

[TheWill3737]

So I took the formation you're using and tried to implement a high pressing and possession based fluid style of play. Let me know what you think. Beat Man City 2-1 with Arsenal having implemented the tactic the day before the match. Any constructive criticism will be greatly appreciated.

Leke's Tactic.fmf

[crusadertsar]

5 minutes ago, TheWill3737 said:

So I took the formation you're using and tried to implement a high pressing and possession based fluid style of play. Let me know what you think. Beat Man City 2-1 with Arsenal having implemented the tactic the day before the match. Any constructive criticism will be greatly appreciated.

Leke's Tactic.fmf 43 kB · 1 download

Nice! Is this using my latest version, or the one Frukox mentioned?

[TheWill3737]

7 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Nice! Is this using my latest version, or the one Frukox mentioned?

I used the structure of the team of 3-1-2-3-1. I tried to create more variety in terms of attacking and trying to nullify the counter-attack of opponents. 

[gokalpcakir1]

Which characteristics of the players should I pay attention to in the transfer?

[frukox]

26 minutes ago, gokalpcakir1 said:

Which characteristics of the players should I pay attention to in the transfer?

Minimum requirements for me:

GK: should be able to sweep balls over the top, good at one-on-ones and be comfortable with the ball at his feet

CD and DM: should be able to play the high line and intelligent and fast enough to be at the right place and right time

Fullbacks, midfielders and forwards should be able to work their socks off to win the ball and then keep the ball and pass the ball accurately to sustain pressure on opposition.

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by frukox

[Guv'nor]

Given that most clubs have an U23/B team and U18s, the urgency with which FM brings through new gens is a bit hasty. With each passing season, bucketloads of new editions fall off the conveyor belt, many of them with fantastic attributes at a very primordial stage in their development. It would be far better if they lessened the load, certainly in the few seasons and placed greater emphasis on developing the existing U18s. Have seen a few second/third seasons with squads full of these frankenstinian clones. A bug to be fixed perhaps?

Moving on, agree with the theory of three, as far as the backline is concerned. By allowing another player further up the field, that should force reactive change in the opposition that negates the loss of the fourth defender. As the last line of defence, GK aside, there's a front-line and midfield to get past before arriving at this 3-manned defence. One's preference is to have the extra man in the front row and utilise 3 forwards, in a flat 3-4-3 with the wide back three as above.

- How important is the Half-back in this formation? 

- You've shifted from Cautious to Positive mentality, has this brought a shift in tempo too?

- The Inverted Wingbacks, do they make a difference defensively, have a tendency to use No Nonsense FBs, to avoid the tendency for them to fly forward in any other role.

- Hold-shape and counter-press in transition, how does this play out?

[gokalpcakir1]

53 minutes ago, frukox said:

Minimum requirements for me:

GK: should be able to sweep balls over the top, good at one-on-ones and be comfortable with the ball at his feet

CD and DM: should be able to play the high line and intelligent and fast enough to be at the right place and right time

Fullbacks, midfielders and forwards should be able to work their socks off to win the ball and then keep the ball and pass the ball accurately to sustain pressure on opposition.

 

so what tecnichal or mental  attributes should ı pay more attention to ?

[crusadertsar]

44 minutes ago, gokalpcakir1 said:

so what tecnichal or mental  attributes should ı pay more attention to ?

If you read back over my very first post in this thread then you should see what kind of players and attributes you will need. It's a total football tactic so you will need well-rounded "total" players in all positions. That means very good technical and mental attributes of course.

Edited February 20, 2021 by crusadertsar

[crusadertsar]

2 hours ago, gokalpcakir1 said:

so what tecnichal or mental  attributes should ı pay more attention to ?

Again I think its pretty self-intuitive. So I rather not list them all again. I already wrote numerous posts about these. 

You can check here

and here

and even here

https://dictatethegame.com/young-devils-on-the-tracks-of-total-football-and-two-johans/?fbclid=IwAR3EW2m-JWVeoObMz-2ARs3TMrhG-UOVqM2SRUWvyrOGE_l31594IY09dZA/

Should all give you a good idea. Basically you need to focus on attributes that help with ball retention and intelligent use of space and movement. Of all the physical attributes Stamina and Acceleration probably help the most due to Total Football's focus on pressing, especially in the front five (includes the mezzala) players. 

[crusadertsar]

3 hours ago, Guv'nor said:

Given that most clubs have an U23/B team and U18s, the urgency with which FM brings through new gens is a bit hasty. With each passing season, bucketloads of new editions fall off the conveyor belt, many of them with fantastic attributes at a very primordial stage in their development. It would be far better if they lessened the load, certainly in the few seasons and placed greater emphasis on developing the existing U18s. Have seen a few second/third seasons with squads full of these frankenstinian clones. A bug to be fixed perhaps?

Moving on, agree with the theory of three, as far as the backline is concerned. By allowing another player further up the field, that should force reactive change in the opposition that negates the loss of the fourth defender. As the last line of defence, GK aside, there's a front-line and midfield to get past before arriving at this 3-manned defence. One's preference is to have the extra man in the front row and utilise 3 forwards, in a flat 3-4-3 with the wide back three as above.

- How important is the Half-back in this formation? 

- You've shifted from Cautious to Positive mentality, has this brought a shift in tempo too?

- The Inverted Wingbacks, do they make a difference defensively, have a tendency to use No Nonsense FBs, to avoid the tendency for them to fly forward in any other role.

- Hold-shape and counter-press in transition, how does this play out?

Okay so I will try to answer as best I can. So I believe Half-back is key as it helps me in creating the 2-3-5 (once my AMC drops deep) shape in possession.

Regarding the Inverted Wingbacks, I prefer that role because with the right players they work very well in defence. With my two players in central midfield going forward to attack the half-spaces I have the IWB stay deeper somewhat between DM and midfield position. When played on Defend duty they are very defensively responsible. Even if I switch one to Support he will just stay in midfield just ahead of the Half-back. But I definately wouldn't use both on Support duty unless you have world-class players there. And I did try NNFB in the past and am not a fan of the role. They does not work for me in a demanding possession-focused system as they just play way too carefully and often hoof the ball up the field when pressed (must be their hard-coded instruction of playing with less risk). Not something at all that I want to see. Even on Positive team mentality (which is the highest I am willing to go for this tactic). IWB on the other hand will engage in short passing and midfield build up from the back as their role suggests. Last season I only leaked some 40 goals in all our games, which is about right when playing with a more attacking tactic like 4-2-3-1 for example. If I wanted to play more defensively then I wouldn't use this formation and go for a 4-1-4-1 DM instead.

I have actually removed hold-shape in my latest version of the tactic. Only keeping Counter-press which I see as central to Total Football style. Originally Hold Shape was there to somewhat mitigate the increased tempos from the Positive team mentality. And to increase our possession a bit more. But since I realized that it doesn't really matter as my players improved and we are now able to keep above 60% possession for most games without that instruction. Now I prefer to have less instructions, and allowing my players dictate the game as they wish. 

[hehehemann]

6 hours ago, Guv'nor said:

Given that most clubs have an U23/B team and U18s, the urgency with which FM brings through new gens is a bit hasty. With each passing season, bucketloads of new editions fall off the conveyor belt, many of them with fantastic attributes at a very primordial stage in their development. It would be far better if they lessened the load, certainly in the few seasons and placed greater emphasis on developing the existing U18s. Have seen a few second/third seasons with squads full of these frankenstinian clones. A bug to be fixed perhaps?

 I definitely agree the amount of newgens and how good they are is very overweighted, the game becomes easier each season when you can gobble up the wonderkids.

I created a much better and more balanced newgen file for the game and really find it helps when playing the long career game.

Less wonderkids, less higher potential ability newgens, more varied in nationalities, the best newgens predominantly come from the big clubs, from their fantastic youth academies and scouting systems so you really have to focus on the development of the kids you have and can find with there being less frankenstinian clones compared to what the default game creates.

Its included in the majesticeternity mod/DLC pack. You can use it on its own too.

 

[Impacto]

On 14/02/2021 at 18:44, frukox said:

 

After about 30-40 games playing with this, I can safely say this version is definitely an improvement. Even with lesser players the football that I saw was absolutely insane. I didn't even think that was possible on FM 20's match engine. Watched every game on extended just to see the plays. Awesome stuff. 

In terms of results, the club I was with initially was overperforming slightly, but we always messed up in the end of the season, just before hitting the playoffs. So I just decided to jump to a new club in the 1st division mid-season, as my rep was getting bigger and now it was possible. I was just getting bored of the same thing repeating for 3rd season in a row... and I wanted to try out some slightly higher skilled players. 

Anyway, the new club was perfect for this tactic. Full of high potential young players, possession and attacking oriented vision, and no big expectations. The start was super hard, even though we had a mini preseason, a.k.a long winter break with a bunch of friendlies, the team kicked into gear in freaking April. We were playing really well from the start, but missing chance after chance... and drawing games we should win, losing some we should draw.  Thankfully in the end we found form and managed to stay up. And we also happened to win the domestic cup, so we're in Europe next season!  When I joined the club was already in the semi finals, but still, it was hard to win it and I'm glad we did. Turned a bad season into an amazing one.

Key takeaways from this version: 

Bulding up from the back is much better. The keeper seems to make good choices, even thoug he is not a sweeper by any means. A lot of times we manage to beat the press with ease. And when nobody is pressing, we build up nicely again. I love it. 

The defense is just as solid as the previous version. I was afraid losing the IWBs and the Anchor man would impact it negatively, but that's not the case. The Full Backs defend just as well, and they overlap nicely in attack. In fact, one of my FBs managed 7 assists in about 20 games he played, while his back up chimed in with 2. Interestingly, this was only on the left side of the pitch. On the right, that was not the case. Then again, I did have an awesome tall super sub in the Treq position that scored like 6 goals coming from the bench, all from headers  I added 'Get further forward" to both FBs and that helped. 

I absoluetly loved the DM. The player is just as good in helping the defense, but going forward, he spreads passes to the free players on the wings perfectly. The Anchor man was not doing that before, at least not often. He was more recycling possession, while here we have a role that is much more progressive. I really liked how it plays. Still, make sure it's a tall guy playing here, as he is still filling in as CB when defending. 

Speaking of CBs, not much changed. Except - no stupid long balls that the BPD likes to do. I again added "Close down less" so the player here doesn't go crazy in the pressing and leave too much space behind him. Hold position is automatically ticked here. The offside trap also helps. 

Moving to midfield. The DLP is an absolute superstar in this setup. Because there is more movement up forward, he can now shine. Huge upgrade over the previous version with the Mezzala. Ratings are over 7 almost every game. His partner - the CMs is more of supporting cast. Even though my best player played there, not many goals and assists came from this position. But again, lots of good ratings. Make sure to give him "Roam from position". 

And now the bast part of this... the front 4. Off setting the striker really makes the difference. The movement, the one-twos that I saw and the quality of goals we scored in the last few matches when the team learned the formation was a joy to watch. It looks like having 4 strikes at times, and there is space for everyone. The Treq did not perform well for me, but that's because I just didn't have the proper player. I mean I did, but he was 33 and can barely run, so he only came in as a sub. And then he banged a bunch of goals, like I said above.  

The AM has "Close down more" which really helped the press and also "Roam from position" which makes sure he attacks the right spaces - just like it was suggested. I used an 18 year old player for most games, who never played a game before, but had some decent playmaking stats. He ended up scoring a bunch of goals, not many assists, but I did see some good passes form time to time. I didn't use "Tackle harder", I just don't like it. Still, the pressing was really good. 

The IW has "Stay Wider" and "Get further forward" and that's what he does. Again, I loved it. Really works well in this set up. Also tracks back. The Treq has "Cut inside" and I'm looking forward to bringing a proper player to play that position next season. Even with a poor one it still did well, so...

The CFs actually scored goals!!! In the previous version, the F9 was not scoring a lot... 1 in 5 games probably. Here I had regular goals, sometimes even 2! The movement is great, reminds me of Ozil's Invincibles Tactic for FM 18. A lot of through balls were sent to the striker that I didn't see before. 

So yeah, overall I really like this version. It's fun to watch, maybe even more than the 1st one, it's less frustrating, but still plays on the edge, bigger teams will trash you, keep it in mind . Possession numbers and pass completion is very high, not a lot of stupid shots, but still a few so you get some awesome goals. Dribbling is toned down and only the right players are allowed to do it. Defending is solid... I mean, considering you have only 1 CB. Prepare for some scary moments... but overall it's really solid. 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Impacto

[jameswazza3]

On 14/02/2021 at 23:10, crusadertsar said:

So it's the last few games of the 2022-2023 season. And we just had another dismantling of Barcelona. 4-1 this time. Again not even close. We simply dominated them. We are sitting comfortably in 5th position and there are three more games left against more inferior opposition so finishing 4th and getting Champions League football next season is still a possibility. 

I would like to use this post to bring attention to what I believe is one of the best aspects of the game. Its also why I think more "unusual" tactics like my 3-4-3 get better over time, the deeper you get into your game. That is once the "newgen" players start showing up.

I have played three years into my Real Sociedad save and while a lot of the well-known "real" players are still dominating headlines, there have been some surprising changes. As is to be expected in any Football Manager game that allows the possibility of alternate football worlds. In my game Real Madrid has become an absolute goal-scoring powerhouse. Which is to be expected as they managed to amass some great attacking talent. In addition to their own superstars Vinicius Junior and aging Hazard and Benzema (joining Lille this summer) they now have Salah, Bernardo Silva, Icardi and Anthony Martial. 

Playing their 4-3-3 DM formation, they manage to score the most goals this season with 114 (next closest was Barca with 97 and then us with 71) while Martial netted 38 of those. Real Madrid also won the league three seasons in a row since I started this game. So its not surprising that to date the best we could manage against them is getting one tie. They are just on another level from Barca. But we are getting closer and we have youth of our side. 

What made our Barcelona victory even more special is that we had 5 young "newgen" players in our First Team squad. Three of the five being homegrown Basque youth that came from our own Academy/Cantera.  

So what makes these young players so special and why are they going to be key in this tactic?

Would you be able to drop a link to this tactic - so we can have all the instructions you use.

[crusadertsar]

6 hours ago, jameswazza3 said:

Would you be able to drop a link to this tactic - so we can have all the instructions you use.

Here you go. Its still a work in progress but hope it works for you

 

Cruyff 3-4-3.fmf

[MAsterix85]

Oh man, I am such a derp. I've been using this shape - the 3-1-2-3-1 in your original post - on and off for over 10 game years, since late last year, but found that for tough games(especially away) it was too easily caught with balls over the top and / or teams just playing two or three strikers against me (as I had only one centre back, obviously). I was controlling most games in the opponent's half, so it wasn't too much of a concern until the latter stages of the Champions League or similar. You see, I'd been using WB(s) in the full back slots, not the *FAR* more sensible (and intuitive, really 😂) IWB(s) that you use. Having changed to your suggestion my tactic is purring again, loads more successful, and creating the sort of beautiful football I play FM to see. Thanks man  (Can't believe I was playing a WB(s) either side of only one CB though, haha!)

[MAsterix85]

*IWB(d), I mean

[crusadertsar]

7 minutes ago, MAsterix85 said:

Oh man, I am such a derp. I've been using this shape - the 3-1-2-3-1 in your original post - on and off for over 10 game years, since late last year, but found that for tough games(especially away) it was too easily caught with balls over the top and / or teams just playing two or three strikers against me (as I had only one centre back, obviously). I was controlling most games in the opponent's half, so it wasn't too much of a concern until the latter stages of the Champions League or similar. You see, I'd been using WB(s) in the full back slots, not the *FAR* more sensible (and intuitive, really 😂) IWB(s) that you use. Having changed to your suggestion my tactic is purring again, loads more successful, and creating the sort of beautiful football I play FM to see. Thanks man  (Can't believe I was playing a WB(s) either side of only one CB though, haha!)

That's awesome! Glad you found the tweak that makes it work. IWB is probably one of my favourite roles since it was introduced. Hybrid fullback/midfielder role that especially shines in possession systems. Although as some shown in this thread, simple fullbacks can work just as well. I actually started experimenting with one fullback and one IWB in the last couple of games. And it's working just as well. 

[MAsterix85]

13 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

That's awesome! Glad you found the tweak that makes it work. IWB is probably one of my favourite roles since it was introduced. Hybrid fullback/midfielder role that especially shines in possession systems. Although as some shown in this thread, simple fullbacks can work just as well. I actually started experimenting with one fullback and one IWB in the last couple of games. And it's working just as well. 

Yeah, I’m warming to it more and more too. I’ve built my squad (over 23 game years, now) to have specialists respectively in wide full-backs but inside forwards, not the others way round, but I’m forcing them to suck it up and just become the wide wingers and inverted full backs I now want them to be. You’re right though, IWB(d) I find as that pleasing hybrid you speak of, even getting wide to deliver crosses when the opportunity’s there, which is something I really didn’t expect before I actually tried them. The defensive solidity is where they earn their corn though; it’s an excellent role. I play the below, and try to keep PIs to a bare minimum and let the players' attributes / PPMs / tactics do the work. Always used a CF(a) in this tactic, it works a dream, and never had any success with F9. I find that without the DLP and AP in central midfield the tactic lacks bite away from home, but the IWB(s)s have given it a new lease of life, for sure.

Edited February 25, 2021 by MAsterix85

[MAsterix85]

First league match at home using the IWB(s)s, and playing my full second string as they were already getting awkward about their game time, and it's 7-0 by half time. Think this might be working...

[crusadertsar]

46 minutes ago, MAsterix85 said:

First league match at home using the IWB(s)s, and playing my full second string as they were already getting awkward about their game time, and it's 7-0 by half time. Think this might be working...

Awesome stuff mate Love it! As an Arsenal fan it's especially great to see the Gunners performing this well. Even virtually. Keep up the good work and the updates.

Your newgen Laws must be really good. Would love to see his profile.

Edited February 25, 2021 by crusadertsar

[MAsterix85]

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

Awesome stuff mate Love it! As an Arsenal fan it's especially great to see the Gunners performing this well. Even virtually. Keep up the good work and the updates.

Your newgen Laws must be really good. Would love to see his profile.

Sort of ex-Gooner here, but I stopped being bothered about which team wins in football about 15 years ago, and just enjoy watching it without affliation now. Still play as Arsenal as my first save though, and I haven't strated a new one since this on the first day the beta was available. Might seem boring winning year in year out, but I re-invent the team and the tactics every season, selling my best players every few years and just bringing new youngsters through...until they get good, then sell them on 😂 I have a transfer budget of over £1bn, but I don't want to spend it and much prefer unearthing hidden gems to suit my club-DNA of tiki-taka total-football type stuff. The winning's not why I play the game, either; I play to create weird and wonderful tactics - a la your / our 3-1-2-3-1 - and then sit back and watch beautiful football that's pleasing to the eye.

I've been tempted to jump ship and get a job at Inter (when it becomes availalbe) to start again, as I've always loved Inter since CM '93 Italia, but I just love every new crop of kids I bring through and the football they play at Arsenal too much. Only just signed Laws from Benfica (where he came through, believe it or not?!) and those were his first goals. Nice way to say hello at the Sir Sidewinder Fandachamp stadium (our new stadium which has been named after the stupid Champo pseudonym which also dates back to the 90s!)

[MAsterix85]

Won the title in 2020/21 and 2022/23 too, but the screen's not big enough 😂

[crusadertsar]

17 minutes ago, MAsterix85 said:

Sort of ex-Gooner here, but I stopped being bothered about which team wins in football about 15 years ago, and just enjoy watching it without affliation now. Still play as Arsenal as my first save though, and I haven't strated a new one since this on the first day the beta was available. Might seem boring winning year in year out, but I re-invent the team and the tactics every season, selling my best players every few years and just bringing new youngsters through...until they get good, then sell them on 😂 I have a transfer budget of over £1bn, but I don't want to spend it and much prefer unearthing hidden gems to suit my club-DNA of tiki-taka total-football type stuff. The winning's not why I play the game, either; I play to create weird and wonderful tactics - a la your / our 3-1-2-3-1 - and then sit back and watch beautiful football that's pleasing to the eye.

I've been tempted to jump ship and get a job at Inter (when it becomes availalbe) to start again, as I've always loved Inter since CM '93 Italia, but I just love every new crop of kids I bring through and the football they play at Arsenal too much. Only just signed Laws from Benfica (where he came through, believe it or not?!) and those were his first goals. Nice way to say hello at the Sir Sidewinder Fandachamp stadium (our new stadium which has been named after the stupid Champo pseudonym which also dates back to the 90s!)

Wow what a player! And talk about a good debut.

[MAsterix85]

10 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Wow what a player! And talk about a good debut.

Yeah, I think he'll turn out okay, but I've another Englishman in front of him in the pecking order just now. Have higher hopes for this kid...

[gokalpcakir1]

How should the training program be

[crusadertsar]

32 minutes ago, gokalpcakir1 said:

How should the training program be

I always use the same "Total Football" training system.

Look here:

on page 19

 

 

[Sarriball14]

2 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

I always use the same "Total Football" training system.

Look here:

on page 19

 

Is this the same for youth teams or is that different? 

[crusadertsar]

13 hours ago, Sarriball14 said:

16 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

I always use the same "Total Football" training system.

Look here:

on page 19

 

Is this the same for youth teams or is that different? 

Expand  

Same for youth teams, In fact it works even better for younger players. 

[endadc]

Love this, is there any more updates coming?

[crusadertsar]

5 minutes ago, endadc said:

Love this, is there any more updates coming?

Nothing more for now. I feel like I got as much as I could from this tactic. When it works well, it can be really devastating. But unfortunately, Its still has its limitations. One of them is probably the need for very specific players. Especially in attack. I feel like my current Real Sociedad side is good but not really good enough to make this tactic shine. We can maintain superior possession but many times our finishing is our undoing. To test this properly you probably need a team like Liverpool or Man City with truly world-class technical attackers like Salah or Sterling. Then it might turn into a world-beater kind of tactic. But I am not willing to try it out with such a club as it would just render it boring for me after a short while. 

Which is the reason why I am moving onto a different tactical shape for my next experiment. One that would still give us a lot of midfield control while at the same time allowing my forwards to be more dangerous in the final third. As well as create very effective overloads. As you might guess, overloads are always my obsession with whatever tactic I use 

So stay tuned for that. 

[endadc]

oh sounds good, will you share a link in this post?

[crusadertsar]

9 minutes ago, endadc said:

oh sounds good, will you share a link in this post?

I think eventually I'll write about it in my main Everything Total Football thread. Simply because it's not a tactic with one CB anymore.

[Cult of Football Manager]

Quality thread I can't believe i've never seen it before. 

At some point in my current tweaking I think I'll be attempting to play with one centre back and look forward to having a detailed read through of this and if you're ok with it @crusadertsar messaging you about some thoughts and ideas with one Centre back?