FM Addick Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Hi all I use 4-2-3-1. Have done for years. With this make up RB - full back attack CB - defend BPD - stopper or cover LB - full back attack DLP MEZZALA WINGER/IF Attacking playmaker winger / IF ADVANCED FORWARD With FM21, I am getting good results whichever level I play, but I’m not controlling games. In particular my midfield is rarely involved. I play on attacking mentality. High lines. Counter press. Most player instructions are default. I just need help to work out how to get my midfield to control games better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilly1979 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 If it’s getting results then all good, but it goes against the grain to have such an aggressive runner in a 2 man midfield especially given your aggressive wings. If you really want both full backs attacking then to balance things out your better off employing 2 holding midfielders to cover for them, depending on your players a CM on defend and a DLP on support can work wonders. Add to this the roles of the wingers, it’s hardly surprising you have no control in midfield, when your in possession you don’t have one, everyone is attacking the box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartplatz Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Could you post a screenshot of your tactic? This would make things so much easier. As @Hilly1979 already mentioned, your cm is way too shaky, and while it's okay to pair a runner with a holding player, a mezzala is much too aggressive. If you opt for a runner in cm in a 4-2-3-1, the fullback on the side where the runner is placed needs to be more conservative, pairing a FB-At with a mezzala is a recipe for disaster. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM Addick Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 Thanks both. like I said, results aren’t an issue. Results are very good. I’m just not getting the Mezzala to have the impact in this version than previous ones. Which is fine as I like the challenge. so, if I went BWM and RPM, would the no10 be better as AMC rather than AP? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilly1979 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 hours ago, FM Addick said: Thanks both. like I said, results aren’t an issue. Results are very good. I’m just not getting the Mezzala to have the impact in this version than previous ones. Which is fine as I like the challenge. so, if I went BWM and RPM, would the no10 be better as AMC rather than AP? Using that combination in midfield is still risky as you not using a genuine holding role, even a BWM on defend is still going chase around leaving gaps to exploit. You can’t treat roles in isolation, so in answer to your question it all depends on the rest of your set up. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
right_winger Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) Playing with CM/d + DLP/s + AM/s possibly COULD let you control games more. I've got a lot of possession with it but I use IW/s and IF/a on the wings and my team is one of the top spot contenders in a strong league... Regardless, keep in mind that having control in the middle might lead to fewer attacks and therefore fewer goals scored so your results could become worse. In other words, it's not as simple as "I'll change a role or two and then I'll have the same good results PLUS I'll control the games". And yeah, as others said, Mezzala even on support is not a good idea in 4231. I'd start with changing it to DLP/s and observe the effects. Edited January 23, 2021 by right_winger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM Addick Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 24 minutes ago, Hilly1979 said: Using that combination in midfield is still risky as you not using a genuine holding role, even a BWM on defend is still going chase around leaving gaps to exploit. You can’t treat roles in isolation, so in answer to your question it all depends on the rest of your set up. What is a genuine holding role? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM Addick Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, right_winger said: Playing with CM/d + DLP/s + AM/s possibly COULD let you control games more. I've got a lot of possession with it but I use IW/s and IF/a on the wings and my team is one of the top spot contenders in a strong league... Regardless, keep in mind that having control in the middle might lead to less attacks and therefore goals scored so your results could become worse. In other words, it's not as simple as "I'll change a role or two and then I'll have the same good results PLUS I'll control the games". And yeah, as others said, Mezzala even on support is not a good idea in 4231. I'd start with changing it to DLP/s and observe the effects. Thanks. Guess it’s less about controlling games now that I think about it. More about my CMs somehow getting ratings higher than 6.5! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilly1979 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 37 minutes ago, FM Addick said: What is a genuine holding role? In your formation, CM on defend, DLP on either duty, basically a role that holds position and doesn’t roam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experienced Defender Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 42 minutes ago, FM Addick said: What is a genuine holding role? Any role that is hard-coded to hold position (which you can check out in its player instructions). In central midfield, holding roles are: CM on defend duty, BWM on defend duty and DLP on either duty. However, BWM is a bit more risky option given his tendency to press and tackle aggressively, which means he can occasionally be caught out of position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM Addick Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 One my CM is a DLP. So that’s a holding player. Issue is the Mezzala then? would DLP work it RPM? sorry for all the questions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadOnion Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 What do you mean about controlling games? More possession? Less shots conceded? You can still have your Mezzala there, but if you want more presence in midfield, you can try using an IWB instead of your FBa. It's likely your Mez and winger/if will be using the flanks a bit, so unless you want to overload that flank even further, I'd try a IWB on defend and watch a few games. Be wary since a IWB requires a slightly different profile. An alternative is to reduce or passing/tempo but again, watching the game (more than results) is key. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilly1979 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 3 hours ago, FM Addick said: One my CM is a DLP. So that’s a holding player. Issue is the Mezzala then? would DLP work it RPM? sorry for all the questions If your going to use 2 attacking full backs then to balance things out your going to be better with 2 holding roles in your midfield to cover for them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM Addick Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 Thanks all. So, two holding roles - what works well with DLP support? CM support? I’ve never used a midfielder as a CM before! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falahk Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 5 hours ago, Hilly1979 said: In your formation, CM on defend, DLP on either duty, basically a role that holds position and doesn’t roam. Any combination of those 3 roles is what I would use for the pivot in a 4-2-3-1, since it provides better passing triangles and defensive stability 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM Addick Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 11 minutes ago, Falahk said: Any combination of those 3 roles is what I would use for the pivot in a 4-2-3-1, since it provides better passing triangles and defensive stability So, would 2 DLP get in each other’s way? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilly1979 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, FM Addick said: So, would 2 DLP get in each other’s way? Why would you want 2 players doing exactly the same job whilst playing next to each other? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM Addick Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 Fair. I’ve gone with DLP support and CM defend. I’ll report back! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilly1979 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, FM Addick said: Fair. I’ve gone with DLP support and CM defend. I’ll report back! That’s better, but what are the rest of your roles? as I said earlier you can’t use roles in isolation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falahk Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 24 minutes ago, Hilly1979 said: Why would you want 2 players doing exactly the same job whilst playing next to each other? Depends on the players you have, for me the main job of the cm's in this formation is to hold shape and recycle possession Back in the day when I was toying with my own ideas rather then real life replications I often used 2 dlp's An example could be this somewhat bizare tactic I used with Real Madrid on fm10 Since the old interface don't provide much information, the tactic was like this: GK: goalkeeper/defend LB: fullback/support CBl: central defender/defend CBr: central defender/defend RB: fullback/support CMl: deeplyining playmaker/defend CMr: deeplyining playmaker/defend AMCl: advanced playmaker/attack AMC: advanced playmaker/support AMCr: advanced playmaker/attack STC: poacher/attack Mentalty balanced, shorter passing, extremely low tempo, time wasting on first notch of often, gk distribution to fullbacks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM Addick Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Hilly1979 said: That’s better, but what are the rest of your roles? as I said earlier you can’t use roles in isolation. Per opening post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experienced Defender Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 14 hours ago, FM Addick said: Per opening post You did not specify the duties of AMR, AML and AMC (only roles). But I still think it's better not to make changes if you are pleased with your results (in spite of the tactic being poorly balanced). Unless the tactic stops working. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
axehan1 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 16 hours ago, Hilly1979 said: Why would you want 2 players doing exactly the same job whilst playing next to each other? Why would they be doing the same job when PPM's could make them completely different players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilly1979 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 24 minutes ago, axehan1 said: Why would they be doing the same job when PPM's could make them completely different players. We haven’t seen his players so we don’t know their ppms, not saying it can’t work but having 2 playmakers playing next together is overkill. Too me if you’ve got 2 players doing exactly the same job it means there are other jobs that are not being carried out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM Addick Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 Thanks all I’ve used a CM defend (Tonali) with a DLP support (Tielemans) with Eze as the Advanced playmaker. So far so good. Quick one: if I have a DLP, is my number 10 better off being AP or Attacking midfielder? I play attacking with slightly direct passing and high tempo. I guess I need to reduce the tempo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experienced Defender Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 38 minutes ago, FM Addick said: Quick one: if I have a DLP, is my number 10 better off being AP or Attacking midfielder? I play attacking with slightly direct passing and high tempo If you play with direct pass and high tempo, then I definitely don't see a point in using 2 playmaker roles. Hence AM rather than AP if you ask me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM Addick Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 Thanks, will give it a go! Will also make passing shorter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experienced Defender Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 11 minutes ago, FM Addick said: Will also make passing shorter Why don't you simply start with default (standard) and then see if it should be tweaked to either shorter or more direct. There is absolutely nothing wrong with default instructions. In fact, more often than not it turns out to be the best option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM Addick Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 Just wanted to report back to say it’s working an absolute treat now. Midfield dominating. Playing well. Results still good. Thanks everyone. for the last 5 years I’ve always used 4-3-2-1 with a DLP next to either a BBM or Mezzala with AP at 10. For the first time now I’ve moved away from that and have DLP, CM and a Trequartista which I’ve never used before and it’s brilliant 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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