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Why does Vaduz always start in 1st round even when Liechtenstein goes up the uefa rankings?

RealSmokePL
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RealSmokePL

RealSmokePL

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It's weird cause even if you get Liechtenstein up to 29th you'll start in 1st instead 2nd, 16nd or so should be 3rd qual round and 15th should be 3rd in Europa League 12th Play-off while 7th or so should be UEL Group stage

But no matter how high you get them you always start in 1st round and it shouldn't be like this!

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RealSmokePL

RealSmokePL

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Welp temporarily I found a somewhat fix which just changes the Liechtensteiners cups nation to Switzerland which actually makes the winner start in further rounds, unfortunately with this the round starts are tied to Switzerlands coefficient not Liechtensteins but it's some progress considering no-one from SI cares to reply......

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Peter G

Peter G

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I think no Liechtenstein club can qualify through the Swiss League, only from winning their cup which grants them access to the Europa League/Conference League. To win the Champions League they would have to win each competition in turn.

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RealSmokePL

RealSmokePL

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8 hours ago, Peter G said:

I think no Liechtenstein club can qualify through the Swiss League, only from winning their cup which grants them access to the Europa League/Conference League. To win the Champions League they would have to win each competition in turn.

That I know it's something else tho, pretty much they always start in 1st round even when Lichtenstein is high up the rankings which shoudn't be the case, couse at some point 15h the cup winner gets a UEL 3rd qualifying round which Liechtenstein doesn't and still stays at 1st round of UECL even 29-16 start in 2nd

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Orion_

Orion_

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On 04/02/2021 at 01:25, Peter G said:

I think no Liechtenstein club can qualify through the Swiss League, only from winning their cup which grants them access to the Europa League/Conference League. To win the Champions League they would have to win each competition in turn.

This. There are only 7 clubs registered in Lichtenstein so they can only get to Europa Qualifiers through winning Lichtenstein Cup (and not from league they are playing which is Swiss). That's one thing.

Another thing is my assumption that they just set cup to be granting only Europa League spot straightforward without checking UEFA Coefficient for Lichtenstein. You should check for it in editor.

On the other hand it was like this for quite a long time. This is foundation for Lichtenstein Challenge. It would make challenge much easier if you could qualify for UCL straight from Lichtenstein Cup.

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RealSmokePL

RealSmokePL

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2 minutes ago, Orion_ said:

This. There are only 7 clubs registered in Lichtenstein so they can only get to Europa Qualifiers through winning Lichtenstein Cup (and not from league they are playing which is Swiss). That's one thing.

On the other hand it was like this for quite a long time. This is foundation for Lichtenstein Challenge. It would make challenge much easier if you could qualify for UCL straight from Lichtenstein Cup.

Neither of those is what I mean though, I know they can't qualify thru the swiss league or for the ucl, I just mean that they can never even qualify for UEL (expect for winning the uecl) even though they should the moment they get to 15th + in the rankings, otherwise irl if this was the case than what would the point be of Liechtensteins coefficient to go up? (both in game and irl)

 

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Another thing is my assumption that they just set cup to be granting only Europa League spot straightforward without checking UEFA Coefficient for Lichtenstein. You should check for it in editor.

This is much more likely, it's most likely hard codded so that they only ever get a UECL spot without actually looking at the coefficients.
Unfortunately there's nothing in the editor which indicates anything, both the UEL, UECL and LC rules don't give anything useful, so it must be hard codded.
Atleast now there's a slight fix in the winter update where they start in further rounds of the UECL, not there yet but a big step forward.

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Orion_

Orion_

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16 minutes ago, RealSmokePL said:

Unfortunately there's nothing in the editor which indicates anything, both the UEL, UECL and LC rules don't give anything useful, so it must be hard codded.

Well I'm not that sure about that when I launched editor. It doesn't say anything special but if you choose any nation cup that allow winner going to Europa qualifiers it's not indicated either.

On the other hand it might be actually hardcoded because there might be kind of issue since Liechtenstein teams are set in editor as Swiss. Maybe teams 'nationality' causes this weird behaviour.

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RealSmokePL

RealSmokePL

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Just now, Orion_ said:

On the other hand it might be actually hardcoded because there might be kind of issue since Liechtenstein teams are set in editor as Swiss. Maybe teams 'nationality' causes this weird behaviour.

I think the issue is just that the LC is hard codded and that all really, if we could get someone from SI to look at it, it would be useful. But I posted the same issue on the europe bugs section and no reply sadly.
 

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Well I'm not that sure about that when I launched editor. It doesn't say anything special but if you choose any nation cup that allow winner going to Europa qualifiers it's not indicated either.

But I'm not really sure what you mean by that? Nothing in the LC rules indicates anything "Note, I used the o'le trick of setting the comps Nation to a different ones than exported it, also this way the LC can have "Domestic Main Cup" set instead of just "Cup", though that doesn't make a difference either. Also this way the LC is separated from the Swiss stuff"

UECL and UEL rules don't give anything useful either so qualification must be hard codded

image.thumb.png.46653fa626d816396018dad0c446831d.pngimage.thumb.png.155320a43b8bf420c79b2b5eeb94fb3f.pngimage.thumb.png.dcf75b26752ecc7d75345ea17661f125.pngimage.thumb.png.46653fa626d816396018dad0c446831d.png

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Orion_

Orion_

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Aren't 'advanced rules' available only for custom database? Maybe someone added there also 'custom' Liechtenstein Cup and it's somehow broken?

9 hours ago, RealSmokePL said:

But I'm not really sure what you mean by that?

I mean that when I looked at Liechtenstein Cup under 'competition' section I didn't see anything that other domestic cups don't have. As I said I think it might be caused by country issue.

obraz.thumb.png.62d6b5f8d5e259efbee0e066fda88da1.png

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RealSmokePL

RealSmokePL

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3 hours ago, Orion_ said:

Aren't 'advanced rules' available only for custom database? Maybe someone added there also 'custom' Liechtenstein Cup and it's somehow broken?

I mean that when I looked at Liechtenstein Cup under 'competition' section I didn't see anything that other domestic cups don't have. As I said I think it might be caused by country issue.

 

"Aren't 'advanced rules' available only for custom database?" Indeed they are but that doesn't cause any issues.

"Maybe someone added there also 'custom' Liechtenstein Cup and it's somehow broken?" It's the default LC with no changes apart from it now being separated from the swiss database and is fully counted as a LIE comp, also Cup > Domestic Main Cup. I also made it so I fully know what was changed and what was left unchanged, 98% was left unchanged so no issues here.

We're just gonna have to wait until FM 24 when SI finally decide to fix it and make it less hard codded.

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Orion_

Orion_

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I know it's a tricky question but does it occur in Default database?

The fact that you can't see in editor any difference doesn't mean that there is nothing added. If you just make it a new competition with in your opinion exactly the same features won't be the same in terms of competition id or something.

For example Bilbao has transfer policy of signing only Basque players that is not visible from editor. Yet if you copy their team and put it in different league the rule will still apply for this country, example: move Athletic Bilbao to Germany and they will have transfer policy to sign only Germans.

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RealSmokePL

RealSmokePL

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1 hour ago, Orion_ said:

I know it's a tricky question but does it occur in Default database?

The fact that you can't see in editor any difference doesn't mean that there is nothing added. If you just make it a new competition with in your opinion exactly the same features won't be the same in terms of competition id or something.

For example Bilbao has transfer policy of signing only Basque players that is not visible from editor. Yet if you copy their team and put it in different league the rule will still apply for this country, example: move Athletic Bilbao to Germany and they will have transfer policy to sign only Germans.

Very good example, but no unfortunately it's still the same.

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Orion_

Orion_

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Well I look at it from different angle. Maybe it's hardcoded that way because it's up to UEFA rules?

Check UEFA coefficient current ranking

They are treated very differently due to their club number. All nations has at least 1 CL spot. Maybe they are meant to keep it that way? They way that Liechtenstein teams can compete in lowest European competition just because their teams have much easier route to reaching qualifiers than teams in other countries.

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Micho21

Micho21

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En 23/2/2021 a las 14:54, RealSmokePL dijo:

Welp they semi fixed it as the LC winner now will start in further rounds of the UECL if LIE goes up the ranking but still their only way of qualifying for UEL is via winning the UECL

 

Do you know if this fix works for savegames or it's necessary to start a new one?

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RealSmokePL

RealSmokePL

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3 hours ago, Orion_ said:

Well I look at it from different angle. Maybe it's hardcoded that way because it's up to UEFA rules?

Check UEFA coefficient current ranking

They are treated very differently due to their club number. All nations has at least 1 CL spot. Maybe they are meant to keep it that way? They way that Liechtenstein teams can compete in lowest European competition just because their teams have much easier route to reaching qualifiers than teams in other countries.

It's definitely hard codded, and yes they of course can never get a ucl spot due to not organizing their own league, but I'm pretty sure Uefa would put their Cup Winner in the UEL instead of UECL if they reached atleast place 15 in the coefficient ranking as that's how it's for the other countries so I don't see why that wouldn't be the case, let's hope SI look more into this.

Edited by RealSmokePL
fixed typo
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