Welcome any feedback on my 4231

[stevecummins78]

Hi everyone!

Now I must admit to being a bit of a stickler for my go-to formation, 4231. It allows me to pick players in the role I most enjoy in the way other set ups don’t. I’m also quite successful with it. 

I am in my third season with Salford City, now in the Championship having achieved back to back promotions (each time with 115 points), so something must be going well. That said, this season is turning out to be a struggle, so much so that I’m going back to basics and building my tactic again.

This is how we are set up. I’d welcome feedback, particularly on whether my shorter passing style is compatible with wanting to counter on transition.

Thank you!

[Jaye]

26 minutes ago, stevecummins78 said:

This is how we are set up. I’d welcome feedback, particularly on whether my shorter passing style is compatible with wanting to counter on transition.

Something to consider is, when you win the ball back, are there enough players up the pitch to progress the ball? If not, shorter passing will hinder you, as your players may play sideways or backwards, or even wait for a player to move into position to receive a pass. 

In addition, I'd be concerned with your in-possession instructions and mentality slowing you down. Play Out of Defence means the ball will spend a lot of time being knocked about by your defenders and midfield, giving your opponent time to regroup. Overlap Left will slow your wing play down a touch, as the winger will look for an overlapping run before making his decision.

So it depends on how you want to play. If you're looking to play on the counter most of the time, I'd suggest Standard passing and removing Play Out of Defence and Overlap, especially as your WB(A) will overlap anyway. 

If you wanted to play more in your opponent's half and work the ball more, you can simply up the defensive by a notch to higher, and then play with shorter passing + play out. It'd be quite simple to switch between the two styles.

Besides that, roles and duties look okay. Keep an eye on your CM(S) in case he goes wandering off when you need him in defence. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Jaye

[stevecummins78]

2 hours ago, Jaye said:

Something to consider is, when you win the ball back, are there enough players up the pitch to progress the ball? If not, shorter passing will hinder you, as your players may play sideways or backwards, or even wait for a player to move into position to receive a pass. 

In addition, I'd be concerned with your in-possession instructions and mentality slowing you down. Play Out of Defence means the ball will spend a lot of time being knocked about by your defenders and midfield, giving your opponent time to regroup. Overlap Left will slow your wing play down a touch, as the winger will look for an overlapping run before making his decision.

So it depends on how you want to play. If you're looking to play on the counter most of the time, I'd suggest Standard passing and removing Play Out of Defence and Overlap, especially as your WB(A) will overlap anyway. 

If you wanted to play more in your opponent's half and work the ball more, you can simply up the defensive by a notch to higher, and then play with shorter passing + play out. It'd be quite simple to switch between the two styles.

Besides that, roles and duties look okay. Keep an eye on your CM(S) in case he goes wandering off when you need him in defence. 

Brilliant comments these, thanks for the advice!

“If you wanted to play more in your opponent's half and work the ball more, you can simply up the defensive by a notch to higher, and then play with shorter passing + play out. It'd be quite simple to switch between the two styles.”

On this point, I do want to play that way most of the time. Do you think keeping counter on creates a conflict with a shorter passing style and playing out? I’m also going to work in to the box.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by stevecummins78

[Experienced Defender]

In terms of overall balance, your setup of roles and duties is not optimal but is relatively decent. However it's more suited to a faster style of play (except for your DLP's defend duty) and hence potentially inconsistent with your possession-minded in-possession TIs (short pass + PoD).

Overlap left is essentially not needed because the roles you use there create a natural overlap anyway + increases defensive risk by increasing the fullback's (already high) individual mentality.

When it comes to out-of-possession TIs, tight marking makes a lot more sense in defensive styles of football and bottom-heavy formations (which yours obviously is not). Also, your aggressive pressing style could prove too risky considering your less-than-optimal level of compactness, especially in a top-heavy system with no DM. 

Of course, the actual level of risk also depends on your players' abilities.

[stevecummins78]

50 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

In terms of overall balance, your setup of roles and duties is not optimal but is relatively decent. However it's more suited to a faster style of play (except for your DLP's defend duty) and hence potentially inconsistent with your possession-minded in-possession TIs (short pass + PoD).

Overlap left is essentially not needed because the roles you use there create a natural overlap anyway + increases defensive risk by increasing the fullback's (already high) individual mentality.

When it comes to out-of-possession TIs, tight marking makes a lot more sense in defensive styles of football and bottom-heavy formations (which yours obviously is not). Also, your aggressive pressing style could prove too risky considering your less-than-optimal level of compactness, especially in a top-heavy system with no DM. 

Of course, the actual level of risk also depends on your players' abilities.

Thanks, I've made some changes.... this is now my possession based tactic. What do you mean by the roles and duties not being optimal by the way?

[Experienced Defender]

4 minutes ago, stevecummins78 said:

Thanks, I've made some changes.... this is now my possession based tactic

You did not make any changes/tweaks to your roles and duties, so I don't see how you mean it's now "possession-based"? It seems that you misunderstood my previous comment (or at least failed to read it carefully).

On top of that, it's now less possession-friendly even in terms of instructions, because you increased the attacking width, which makes the distance between players bigger. Possession football requires the opposite. It does not necessarily mean that you need to go with narrow, but at least leave it on default. 

[stevecummins78]

4 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

You did not make any changes/tweaks to your roles and duties, so I don't see how you mean it's now "possession-based"? It seems that you misunderstood my previous comment (or at least failed to read it carefully).

On top of that, it's now less possession-friendly even in terms of instructions, because you increased the attacking width, which makes the distance between players bigger. Possession football requires the opposite. It does not necessarily mean that you need to go with narrow, but at least leave it on default. 

I made change to the Tis, I think the roles are fine. I am though getting killed with balls over the top, so high line is a problem for me.

[stevecummins78]

Thanks for advice, new tactic working out really well!