3-2-5 ATTACK - I d love some insight about the tactic im about to show

[Sportinguista99]

Hey i m using fm legends and currently playing with sporting, now how can i make this tactic truly work.

I have some good results, yes but in some games even with many goals, but in the last games the team started playing really bad, even when winning they suck.

How can i improve this tactic?

TNX

[zyfon5]

3 hours ago, Sportinguista99 said:

Hey i m using fm legends and currently playing with sporting, now how can i make this tactic truly work.

I have some good results, yes but in some games even with many goals, but in the last games the team started playing really bad, even when winning they suck.

How can i improve this tactic?

TNX

Read the tactical guides pinned in this forum. Understand what are the basic principles of a tactic first.

[frukox]

9 hours ago, Sportinguista99 said:

Hey i m using fm legends and currently playing with sporting, now how can i make this tactic truly work.

I have some good results, yes but in some games even with many goals, but in the last games the team started playing really bad, even when winning they suck.

How can i improve this tactic?

TNX

You don't have to create the exact same formation to get your desired attacking shape. Remember your formation shows how your team is going to defend out of possession.

Any balanced formation can help you do that with the right role and duty distribution, which should be in accordance with your playstyle.

[Sportinguista99]

the only real problem is the counter attacks, if i could so something about that it would get better

[frukox]

28 minutes ago, Sportinguista99 said:

the only real problem is the counter attacks, if i could so something about that it would get better

Watch your games and look at your players' positioning during a defensive transition. You will see opponents will feast on your flanks and this is exacerbated by having only one CB. One ball down the channel, you're in deep trouble.

Edited February 17, 2021 by frukox

[Sportinguista99]

yes it s true

but maybe if i find a fast CB he could have a chance of catching up

because on most situations when the ball gets on the area the other 2 defenders and the DM are already there helping, but in those few situations when it s 1v1 or 1v2 the cb is so slow that he cant  catch them, but if he is really fast maybe i dont have to change the tactic??  

 

Because the tactic works the offensive is very good most of the games i have 50 shots and 20-25 on goal

And i dont have shoot outside the area i use get to the area

Edited February 17, 2021 by Sportinguista99

[Bahamontes]

So, your team creates roughly 20 to 25 shots on target per game and you scored 2,5 per game in September. What did the average xG look like or how do you rate the quality of the created chances. Very curious.

[backpocket]

I can’t give you an exact answer, because everyone has a different solution to a problem. But here are some things to think about, and I’m just basing this off your tactics screen.

1. High mentalities (positive and above) gets your players tired or jaded fast, so that can affect performance throughout a season.

2. Your tactic is very demanding, so obviously you need world class players or very consistent players to make it work every game. Monitor performances or their report to see who’s consistent and who’s dropping off.

3. Against deep defences, attack duties on attacking midfield areas and forwards will pin defences back. Because your wingers are on attacking duties, plus your mentality and width, they’ll just be sitting forward waiting, not giving much support. So your full backs have so much work to do running forward, holding the ball, distributing, and working the transitions.

4. There’s also no real midfield distributor, as your DM will start deep, the volante will be at the opponents box. So basically your 3 support duties are your AM who drops, and the full backs who are far apart due to width. This puts so much responsibility on them to bring the ball up in transition.

5. Against packed defences, the only ball recyclers are again, the 3 support players. If they’re not playing well they won’t get the ball to the right players.

I’m not disparaging your tactic btw, just pointing out issues that I see. Play the way you enjoy! God knows I’ve done a lot of stupid stuff because I like the way it plays.

 

[Guv'nor]

Finally, someone who wants to stroll through the dales to the left of the field. The gluttony of super “442s, 4132s, 4231s” is mind numbing. Once upon a time, the true Championship Manager (ode to olden times), would scratch his pencil into the back of his textbook, till there was no led left and a red ink, capitalised “see me” written by Mr Hewitt.

From a real world perspective, the game is evolving far beyond the capacity of FM match engines. Play two at the back without wingbacks and 11 times out of ten, it’s a royal beating. Yet, rewind to Bayern vs Roma and Pep’s hybrid 2/3 at the back with Robben as an adventurous “not so” defensive winger. 
 

Each to their own, but as one of somewhat Bohemian tendencies, the split back three with fullbacks always gets the nod over the bog standard three centrebacks. And needless to say, it’s never a flat back four.  Ever. 

[Guv'nor]

Now to the point of the topic. There are a number of issues which ultimately equate to self-sabotage. 
 

1. Firstly, whilst E = MC2, overall mentality is a product of Team Mentality and Individual mentality.

Fullbacks on support in attacking team mentality, will lead to greater emphasis on the possession phase, risk and defensive disarray. 
 

Question is, what is the purpose of the fullbacks in this formation, to get forward or defend the flanks? With 5 in advanced positions, surely the fullbacks can leave their Cafu at home and go full Winterburn. 
 

Drop down the mentality to Defensive, switch to No Nonsense FBs, sit narrow, cut inside with the ball. Man-Mark the wide forwards/wingers. 
 

2. The BPD, by default, plays with a greater degree of risk than the CD or No Nonsense CB. With a potentially risky defensive setup, why encourage additional risk taking behaviour? Again, with a sizeable attacking force ahead of the back line, why the need for Luiz lunacy here? Keep it simple, Bobby Carvalho style comes to mind, take the man and ball, job done. 
 

3. The Double Pivot makes no sense, ahead of the Volante is a quartet of attackers across 4th vertical zone (AM line). So where exactly is Volante going to go that isn’t occupied already? Again a spoonful of unnecessary risk, for no perceived benefit, beyond a fancy sounding setup. 
 

A while back, one would’ve concluded that the double pivot is manned by two Half-backs, however Project PSV has brought a change in ideology. What the single CB needs is support be that in a Halfback dropping into the back line (albeit only in the attacking phase) or Defensively minded Defensive Midfielders employed to defend. 
 

Given the overall team shape, pressure on the opposition once entering the defensive third is a must and thus, as evidenced by experience, BWMs on defend, serve a treat here. Strip off all risky instructions and ensure player traits are negligible or defensively orientated. Again, minimise risk. 
 

If up against a team utilising an AMC, assigning one of the BWMs to man-mark works a treat. 
 

4. Now to the Quartet, the Four Tops. Again, roles and risk and unnecessary duplication. The Wingers are a must, more so if the FB are No Nonsense. With an Attacking mentality and presumably with Get Forward activated, they’re stationed further up the field and harder to find. More so with risk reduced in the defensive setup, the likelihood is they’ll have the best seats in the house to watch the defensive being laid siege to. 
 

Drop the mentality to support and depending on individual attributes, dribbling, crossing, OTB; either cross from deep or dribble often. Lest one forget, with a higher starting position, crossing from deep will equate to crosses in the low final third. Have managed to reduce the number of blocked crosses, which is somewhat ridiculous in this edition. 
 

Wingers stay wide, run wide. Man-marking opposing fullbacks is a good ploy, one always looks fly Wingers with decent work rate, team work, tackling and marking above 10. Bravery and aggression are a bonus. Age permitting, retraining a fullback for this purpose is ideal. 
 

5. What’s the point of having two AMCs here, where’s the space? More so if they’re encouraged to roam, there’s barely enough to room to Pedesina. 
 

Switch one to a Support Striker and ensure the spot if filled by a player fit for purpose: Positioning, OTB, Anticipation, composure. 

The AMC is on support, nothing fancy, no play making, trequartista, enganche or quattro formaggio, keep it simple, yet cerebral. Hold position, no forward runs, a little bit of risk, assuming passing, vision and the tries killer balls trait are on deck. 
 

If the opposition have a single DMC, having the AMC man-mark him can work a treat. 
 

6. The not so lone forward doesn’t necessarily need to move into channels and get in the way of the wingers. Plus, naturally, having players in the AMLC/RC zones will see some lateral movement, no matter how undesired. 
 

The Strikers need to occupy the centre halves and create space for the SS. Any role that doesn’t auto assign movement into the channels. A Targetman on support or if not mistaken, Pressing Forward (might be mistaking this for the DLF). 
 

7. With so many players in advanced roles, the line of engagement and defensive line are crucial. A much higher LOE, could take 5 players out of the game with a single goal kick. Watch the game, extra emphasis on the opposition GK’s distribution. If they play out, press aggressively, if they clear it up field, a lower/mid-block is better. 
 

Drop the LOE to standard, so the quintet help out in midfield. No individual attacking mentality besides the SS, which is default. 
 

Unless blesses with Usain Bolt’s ah the back with the mental stats of Charles Xavier, a Much higher defensive line is tantamount to sabotage. At most, Higher, even Standard can serve a purpose with the BWMs putting pressure on the ball. 
 

8. Team width, reasonable width in Attack to open up the half spaces for the AM and SS, but too wide as to add additional risk to the pass. If playing with a Striking role that drops deep, then the width can be increased given the additional passing options in the AMC zone. 

Defend narrow for obvious reasons. The intention being to shrink the space between the fullbacks and single centrehalf. With the Man-Marking on, the FBs get out to the flanks quickly in the direct defensive phase (when their flank is being attacked), whilst tucking inside when play is on the contralateral flank or central. 
 

9. Passing style and Tempo is crucial. The ball needs to get to the Attackers quickly, more so given the lack of a central midfield per se. Again the issue is that of risk, short passing will see a plethora of from me to you between defenders with poorer passing attributes, inviting pressure and the concession of possession near inevitable. More so when asked to pass it short distances at high speed. 

A direct approach seems to equate to big up and unders in FM, as far as defenders are concerned. Look at individual traits, switches play, try long passes will be desirable here or can be programmed in through training. 

Slightly Direct (the Mixed of olden times) with a slightly lower tempo (equally mixed) should be a decent balance. This gives the opportunity to adjust Tempo in play as desperate o’clock nears.
 

Using the split back three with a flat 4 across the midfield, BWMs on defending and nothing else, Besic is marvellous in this role for the underdog. A proper Rottweiler. Defensively sound thus far. Wide midfielders or Defensive wingers on support and plenty of man-marking across the lineup. And the point is???

Point being, could you move the double pivot upto CM, both BWMs on Defend. Drop the team mentality to Balanced or even Cautious, with a little more individual Attacking intent given to the Wingers.

 

Plenty of friendlies and adjust the training schedule to emphasise tactical familiarity. Build the squad accordingly, the fullbacks, centreback and BWMs die a thousand deaths. Depth is a must. 
 

It’s been a while, an aid memoir on how to post a screenshot anyone. Cheers. 
 

Could upload  my tactic, but where’s the fun in that. The greatest pleasure in FM is in that John Hannibal Smith moment when you simulate a cigar with a Bic biro and mutter, “I love it when a plan comes together”. 
 

On that note, long live the Retrolutionaries.
#4-4-who? #4-2-3-anotherone! 

[Sportinguista99]

Thank you all, i ve read your comments and i will make some changes

i will keep you posted here

[bahmet]

no fb s, lets iwb def!

[Guv'nor]

8 hours ago, bahmet said:

no fb s, lets iwb def!

With two DMs occupying the space for inversion, the benefit of the IWB will be reduced. If not mistaken, the role description states that if 2 or more DMs, the role is almost obsolete from the inverting aspect. Plus the inversion adds to an already overpopulated central zone and further ripens the flanks for exploitation. 

Have used IWBs in a 2-6-2/exaggerated 4-1-3-2 with Sheff Weds (always have a few saves with the Not so Wise Owls) and Celtic. Worked well creating the 2-3 defensive shape in possession or 3-2 if DM is Half-backing. That said, think the IWB role is somewhat overrated, possession is a must and this limits its use to the powerhouses for maximal output. Inverted wingers ahead of flying fullbacks/wingbacks is far more inclusive: rich team, poor team.

 

[Sportinguista99]

I have made some changes and started a new campaign and this have been the results so far.

with the other tactic i had lost the supertaça agains t benfica for 3-5 and now i have won for 3-2 

 

[Guv'nor]

@Sporting, what changes were made? The 3-2 reversal at Benfica, whilst rewarding, shows they had 25 shots, it would be worth having a look at how many clear-cut chances. Given your keeper's rating, one will assume, not many. 

25 chances is still a lot for the opposition, even more shots than during the 5-3 loss. Did you watch the game, where were the weaknesses?

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Guv'nor

[Sportinguista99]

I changed all player positions, but i haven t added much to the team playing style, i'm lost xD

I didn t watch i was on vacation on the first month just to see what the results would be

[Guv'nor]

Gotcha. Well glad to see the adjustments worked. A little in game viewing will identify problem zones. The challenge remains to get as close to perfection as possible for a particular shape. 
 

the 3-2-4-1/3-2-5 as bold and daring as it maybe, can still evolve, in that very same shape, into a solid formation in both phases of play. Make it happen.  
 

Presently working on a multitude of motifs, the Hungarian 3-1-2-4/3-2-1-4 is  proving a hard challenge but one relished nonetheless. 

[Sportinguista99]

Yeah, tnx for the help and good luck on your new tactic