Lower League Wages & Contracts

[HampshireIan]

Morning everyone,

I'm after some help from those a bit more knowledgeable than me in the game.

So, i've been managing Ashford United who were in the Isthmian Southern League and I managed to win that league in my first season and been promoted.

My finances are dreadful and one of my goals by the board for next season, is to get the bad finances back to something decent.  I suspect if I don't do this, i'll probably get sacked, so need to get a few things straight before I start my next season.

So, the reason for my post is contracts and playing costs.

Firstly, I do have a few players on £200+ per week contracts, which at £400 per week is going to be £2800+ per month.  My wage budget is only £3200 so I will have to get rid of them.

I will need to get all of my players on a 'pay-as-you-play' contract - is that possible?   Is that a part time contract?  If so, how do I offer this as whenever I approach a player to sign, they appear to want a weekly wage and if I drop that to £0.00 then the agent just drops me like a stone.  How do I get them on part time?

Second one is about arranging friendlies.  I can see that I can select a team and it shows me costs and income.  Do those costs include all wages etc or are the costs just for ground upkeep, lighting, staff etc?  My thinking is that I can arrange friendlies and if say the costs are £2000 and the income is £600, then that is all profit and I can do two or three of those a month (or more) to bump up my bank balance?

Thanks in advance, a bit of a big first post, but I don't want to start the second season without getting a few things set up correctly.

Cheers

[Tig212]

Hello,

I am new to FM but according to my understanding:

1) Yes you can technically get all your players on a "pay-as-you-play" contract (Non-Contract) but whether they will accept it is another question. Also, if another team wants one of your players who is on a Non-Contract, they don't have to pay compensation (they get them for free).

2) The cost is the money you will spend to arrange the friendly. The income is how many money you receive by arranging the friendly (usually gate receipts so the more fans and bigger stadium the better)

Hope this helps.

[HampshireIan]

Cheers for that Tig.  

Yes, I know what you mean about getting them to accept part time contracts.  I suspect the only one's i'll get, are pub players!  I have a fair few players already on zero wages and an appearance fee only, so maybe I just keep going until I find some that take the offer

 

I wasn't sure how to offer a part time contract - is it just offering zero wages and appearance only, as I can't find a drop down for part time anywhere

Edited February 24, 2021 by HampshireIan

[kentonizking]

Lots of friendlies. 

 

Play around with it until you work out who makes you the most profit, its tough if the ground is small. As for non-contracts, the best option is to approach players who are under 21 and released. They are more likely to accept a non-contract. Then if they are hopeless, don't play them. At that level, it rarely matters if you lose a decent player to another division, as there is usually a similarly decent replacement floating around. 

 

Keep us posted. 

[HampshireIan]

Cheers for that Kenton.  Makes sense.  The shame of it, is that my best three players are the ones on a wage and scored 50+ goals between them.

 

I think they are all on 2021 expiring contracts so I'll just have to let them go for nowt and try to crack the next league up.    From what i'm reading, this is going to be very tough

[Junkhead]

Not every club will allow non-contract offers. 

I would be chucking everything at going on a decent cup run if I were you - it's pretty much all that will save you. Exploiting friendlies doesn't work as well as it once did.

[kentonizking]

On 24/02/2021 at 13:42, HampshireIan said:

Cheers for that Kenton.  Makes sense.  The shame of it, is that my best three players are the ones on a wage and scored 50+ goals between them.

 

I think they are all on 2021 expiring contracts so I'll just have to let them go for nowt and try to crack the next league up.    From what i'm reading, this is going to be very tough

As for loans, sent your scouts to get team reports on the teams two leagues above. Focus on their under 23s or even under 18s if it is a big fish/small pond club. The scouts will usually come back with loan options you dont get in the player search. This has saved my Bradford Park Avenue save many a time

[HampshireIan]

9 hours ago, Junkhead said:

Not every club will allow non-contract offers. 

I would be chucking everything at going on a decent cup run if I were you - it's pretty much all that will save you. Exploiting friendlies doesn't work as well as it once did.

Ah, that's a shame.  Thought that might keep me afloat

[HampshireIan]

4 minutes ago, kentonizking said:

As for loans, sent your scouts to get team reports on the teams two leagues above. Focus on their under 23s or even under 18s if it is a big fish/small pond club. The scouts will usually come back with loan options you dont get in the player search. This has saved my Bradford Park Avenue save many a time

Scouts   I think I may have one scout.  Can't afford any more than that right now. I guess he's going to be a busy lad then

[kentonizking]

Just now, HampshireIan said:

Scouts   I think I may have one scout.  Can't afford any more than that right now. I guess he's going to be a busy lad then

of course, i forget i begged the board to let me have another one. He will do roughly one team each in-game day, and the players go into the 'scouting meeting suggestions' bit 

[warlock]

@HampshireIan What level are you playing now? Tier 8 or the VNS?

Essentially you can have three types of player agreement - standard/professional contract with a guaranteed weekly wage; non-contract, which is pay-per-appearance; and amateur, which pays nothing at all.

Below the VNS/VNN I wouldn't have any players on full-time contracts unless they were absolute stars. Some would be on a non-contract basis, and some/most as amateurs. I've just done two seasons with Durham City starting in Tier 10, and then promoted to Tier 9. In that last season my total player wages for the year were less than £9,000. I had a handful of players on £50-£120 per appearance and the rest had amateur status.

Don't think these players are automatically rubbish, and they're certainly not "pub players". We won back-to-back titles, finished runners-up in the FA Vase in season 1, and won it in season 2. In season 2 my prize money was £23,000 for the FA Cup and £51,500 for the Vase. We finished season 2 with a net loss of £480. Our average home attendance was around 250, but we still earned £92,000 in gate receipts for the season. As @Junkheadsaid, cup runs are vital.

The downside of non-contract and amateur players is that they move on and you get nothing. So you have to rebuild every season. Thankfully, there's plenty of decent players out there who will sign for peanuts. Or nothing. Of my second season "pub players", one signed to pro terms in Holland, three signed for VNN sides, and one went to Stockport in L2. The trick is to find the good ones when they're young, before they catch the eye of the L2 and Vanorama level clubs.

The trick to the trick is to forget scouts and use the trial system. Every player who approaches you, offer him a trial. Same for every prospect your scouts/coaches/analysts mention. Trial them all, then try to sign the ones that can do a job for you. The ones who want full-time contracts, or more money than you can pay for non-contract terms, add them to your shortlist because in a month or two, when they still haven't found a club, their ambitions become much more realistic and  you can try again. I've had ex-Premiership youngsters accept amateur status. and plenty of 18-20-year-olds released by L1 and L2 clubs who - eventually - are happy to play for £60 or £80 appearance fees. And keep trialling throughout the season - just as players can leave for free if they want, you can get shot of them for free when you find someone better.

[Mrlee.1986]

9 hours ago, warlock said:

@HampshireIan What level are you playing now? Tier 8 or the VNS?

Essentially you can have three types of player agreement - standard/professional contract with a guaranteed weekly wage; non-contract, which is pay-per-appearance; and amateur, which pays nothing at all.

Below the VNS/VNN I wouldn't have any players on full-time contracts unless they were absolute stars. Some would be on a non-contract basis, and some/most as amateurs. I've just done two seasons with Durham City starting in Tier 10, and then promoted to Tier 9. In that last season my total player wages for the year were less than £9,000. I had a handful of players on £50-£120 per appearance and the rest had amateur status.

Don't think these players are automatically rubbish, and they're certainly not "pub players". We won back-to-back titles, finished runners-up in the FA Vase in season 1, and won it in season 2. In season 2 my prize money was £23,000 for the FA Cup and £51,500 for the Vase. We finished season 2 with a net loss of £480. Our average home attendance was around 250, but we still earned £92,000 in gate receipts for the season. As @Junkheadsaid, cup runs are vital.

The downside of non-contract and amateur players is that they move on and you get nothing. So you have to rebuild every season. Thankfully, there's plenty of decent players out there who will sign for peanuts. Or nothing. Of my second season "pub players", one signed to pro terms in Holland, three signed for VNN sides, and one went to Stockport in L2. The trick is to find the good ones when they're young, before they catch the eye of the L2 and Vanorama level clubs.

The trick to the trick is to forget scouts and use the trial system. Every player who approaches you, offer him a trial. Same for every prospect your scouts/coaches/analysts mention. Trial them all, then try to sign the ones that can do a job for you. The ones who want full-time contracts, or more money than you can pay for non-contract terms, add them to your shortlist because in a month or two, when they still haven't found a club, their ambitions become much more realistic and  you can try again. I've had ex-Premiership youngsters accept amateur status. and plenty of 18-20-year-olds released by L1 and L2 clubs who - eventually - are happy to play for £60 or £80 appearance fees. And keep trialling throughout the season - just as players can leave for free if they want, you can get shot of them for free when you find someone better.

+1 for this. I actually work for a club in the Isthmian premier (league below the VNS) and there are very few (if any) ‘contracted’ players in the leagues down here. Most are simply paid per appearance, expenses and/or bonus’s, and simply use football as a “second income”. Of course, as has been mentioned, that does mean you risk other clubs coming and taking your players for free. But tbh, unless you have rich owners, you’ll lose money down in these leagues pretty much every season, unless you can get lucky with a cup run. 
oh and if you can get lucky enough to get yourself a parent club affiliate, that will help you loads. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Mrlee.1986
Added

[warlock]

1 hour ago, Mrlee.1986 said:

there are very few (if any) ‘contracted’ players in the leagues down here.

It's one of the things that makes non-league football interesting, I think. It's an entirely different game. Your point about parent/affiliates is a good one, but in my experience they're not much use below the VNS/VNN level - either they want players to join better clubs, or the players themselves think they're above your level (as applicable within FM!) 

But it's good to have input from someone who knows the reality down in the non-league system 

[Mrlee.1986]

3 hours ago, warlock said:Your point about parent/affiliates is a good one, but in my experience they're not much use below the VNS/VNN level - either they want players to join better clubs, or the players themselves think they're above your level (as applicable within FM!)

Depends how sensible you are in your choices, if for example you’re a London based VNS side and you’re trying to get Arsenal/Chelsea players, then probably not, but if you choose a Leyton orient/afc Wimbledon level affiliate, you’ll have a lot more luck. Generally you only get players from their under 18s, but still as a rule a lot better than you currently have, and of course, saving on those wages. 

[HampshireIan]

Cheers everyone for your input.  All very enlightening and makes a lot of sense playing the game.

 

I am in the Isthmian Premier Division after winning the Isthmian South League.

 

I did evaluate my squad a lot.  On looking, there was one player who's wage was actually 11% of my wages budget, so he had to go, along with a few more with similar %.

 

I've had a couple of loanees come in from slightly higher leagues, so i've got high hopes that they can do a job but like you say, it's not easy to attract them.  Maybe i'm expecting too much as i've not got experience of lower league management.

 

What's your experiences with getting young goalkeepers in from teams, say two leagues above you - do they tend to get all nervy and bottle the games you really need them in, or do you find because they are young (and probably have as good stats as your pub keeper), that they have a blinding season.  I realised that I only had one keeper who was 16, so got a couple of quick part time transfers in, and I don't think they are up to it at all, so need to get a new one in

[HampshireIan]

ps...... on negotiating part time contracts - do you just take the the weekly wage and unused sub out and put a value in for appearance fees?   I've tried this and I cannot get the weekly wage to zero, it only lets me get down to about £20.00 per week, which obviously I don't want to do

[Tig212]

@HampshireIan,

You can change contract type to "Non-Contract" or "Amateur in Contract Type which is the first line of the contract as seen below (if you are semi-pro or amateur)

Edited March 8, 2021 by Tig212

[HampshireIan]

Thanks Tig.  I'll have a look.  Not sure I saw it so maybe it's not an option for every player but cheers for that