What does all the data mean...?

[daleturley]

I was wondering if anybody could help me. It's getting to the point where I can barely play anymore because it's getting soooo boring, and I suspect it's this massive amount of data everybody talks about.

I'm playing as Milan, in my second season - the first season was OK; I set pretty much every responsibility to assistant manager.

Second season I've taken over some more of the responsibilities. I've taken over training (using downloaded schedules, and some individual training), which seems to be going well, as plenty of players are improving quite a lot. I've also taken over the opposition instructions and contract negotiations. When I watch the highlights the players seem better connected to each other, moving the ball around quickly etc.

Yet I've never, not once, beaten a bigger side than me. I've only managed to hold onto a 1-0 once. Every other time there's an equaliser in the last 20 minutes.

When I watch the Extended or Comprehensive highlights it's probably 80% the opposition with the ball - this is where I'm getting so fed up. Every time a highlight starts and I see it's the opposition again I just feel like switching off.

When we have the ball it's normally one of my players running into the opposition, losing the ball and back they come again.

My xG is normally close to the oppositions, occasionally quite a way above. We're having lots of shots, but a low percentage are scored. My defence seems OK, but we're constantly getting beaten by through balls.

My tactics are hardly out there: I play 4-2-3-1, sometimes I drop the AM to a DM if we're playing a team with lots of players up front. The only changes I've made are: shorter passing, higher tempo, distribute to CB, tight marking, prevent GK short kick. Sometimes I play a low front line, standard defensive line, regroup and counter, sometimes I play both high lines and pressing depending.

I suspect my problems are the data - I have absolutely no idea what any of it means.

I looked today and most of my key passes are from Sandro Tonali - well, he's a good player, what's the point?

Most of my goals are from around the penalty spot. OK, don't know what to do with that.

I'm being told to play a high line to stop shots from outside, yet I concede from through balls...

My team report lists lack of depth outside the first team, so I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing well or poorly and have no idea where to look to find out - do I need to watch the full 90 minutes of every game? Up to this point I mainly click stuff and see whether I score, sometimes I make a semi-educated guess such as focusing down the right if their left-back is crap.

I've looked for some information, but I end up reading things such as "if you have high xG and low goals, you need to make your strikers more clinical" which is like saying "to drive a car, get in and drive".

Can anybody help, either with some information suggestions, or decent articles?

 

Thanks.

[Kieranovks1]

hey bud you could if you want try some downloading tactics and read the desrciptions  or watch the videos some leave to explain what they are trying to achieve and use that as a sort of base point. About conceding in the last 20 mins some teams will attack you like crazy to get equaliser try making your tactic more defensive in final part of match wbs who are on support maybe put on defend drop the amc back into dmc, take off tied players, use time wasting keep the ball or try to go more direct and counter to get a second goal. 

You really need to have a idea of how you want team to play rather than just thinking what do i need to tick to win, i was in this boat. Bust the net on youtube has really took it back to the basics with his videos recently and are informative. You want to play fast direct like leicester or pass it about non stop like old school barca? I find the team cohesion to be very important from what i see it gives you bonuses to some attributes as does doing att movement and def positioning training before a match.

 

But to be honest i dont look at the data and just rely on what im seeing in comprehensive highlights most of the time,  Just enjoy the ride

[daleturley]

Thanks. I'll have a look at the videos. It just feels as though that data is there for a reason, I just have no idea what the reason is

I've just read something about having a match plan ready for close games after 75 minutes for example and dropping defensive - my problem might be watching the game. If it's close I might set to defensive and skip to commentary only, because I can't bare sitting and watching constant highlights of them attacking.

My problem really is that I don't have a a real clue what's going on, I'm just clicking and hoping.

If I'm Milan and playing Spezia for example, I know I can play attacking, put people on attack duties, work into the box and specifically mark their one decent player. That's good enough for a win by a couple of goals because my players are so much better.

When I then come up against Inter or Juventus (or even Atalanta or Sassuolo at the moment!) I have no idea. There must be something in the highlights or the data that is suggesting a good way of countering them or a decent way to defend against them. I've just played Juventus - I left it to run without watching - and managed a 0-0 but no shots at their goal and 35% possession. The defence and keeper must have played incredibly well, but no shots?

What I'm looking for is something that makes me believe what I'm doing is for a reason, rather than a 'huh, I'll try this' kind of approach, even if it doesn't work all the time. If I look at my tactics and I'm playing a high line - I couldn't say why.

I've been looking through the Team Report and it says that 22 of 40 assists have come from through balls in the last 50 games (or similar) and then it says I should have a higher line because we have conceded 1 goal from outside the area. What are you supposed to do with that?

[Kieranovks1]

if you play high line are your defenders fast? to help deal with the inevitable ball over the top, pressing them with a higher line of engagement and more urgent pressing would be a good combo imo, you dont want your defence high but then give their playmaker all the time in the world to hit hollywood passes through to a lightning quick striker, so pressing and limiting their time on the ball is important with this systyem. With a low line and low line of engagement and less pressing your stepping back keeping shape and letting the opposition attack you without running all over the pitch making holes in your team, Then some teams take as few passes as possible to counter which is a valid tactic when you are the weaker team.

IMPORTANT INFO: if your defence line is set high and your playing on positive mentality if you change mentality to attacking it will go even higher as with passing directness width etc all these things will increase lowering mentality will reduce them, so basically everything is relative to mentality, personally i start on positive then if i'm struggling to create will change to attacking and with just a change in mentality i see more direct passes, higher line moire width more intense pressing, other times when im struggling i will up the passing directness by one but then if i go attacking i will have knock it back down by one as it becomes too direct for my liking with the team i am.

 

clenching is all part of the fun, and sometimes you can lose despite being by far the best team. If you watch football in irl who do you like top watch? maybe someone out their has recreated a tactic of the team for you to get few ideas.

im far from a pro but i normally hit my targets in my save. If you show a pic of your formation im sure other more astute minds will help.

[daleturley]

I hadn't taken into account the change in mentality, which is something I often do.

I have two tendencies, which might be bad for all I know:

1. Against a better team, I start with cautious mentality, higher temp and shorter passing, then if I start bright I move up to balanced and then positive (sometimes right to positive)

1. Against a lesser team, I start positive, and then up to attacking.

My defenders at the moment are fairly quick for pace and acceleration one is 14 and 15 and the other 12 and 13. So not lightning quick, but quick enough. I still have Theo Hernandez who is attacking and i often leave space on my left, which I know about and am fine with. My right back is Calabria on FB Support.

I do see the Team Report say a lot of opposition attacks come through the middle, so that's got me wondering about some better marking / closing down there.

I don't particularly like losing - who does? - but I can accept a loss when it's deserved, but when it feels like I'm handing the win I get frustrated and bored.

In real life, I support Wolves but don't watch too much English football. My teams are Milan and Atletico Madrid, although (even though it's hard to admit as a Milan fan) I like watching Inter at the moment - but their 3-5-2 (or 5-3-2) wouldn't really suit the players I have at the moment.

This is pretty much my starting 11 at the moment.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Experienced Defender
inappropriate word

[Prolix]

5 hours ago, daleturley said:

I've just played Juventus - I left it to run without watching - and managed a 0-0 but no shots at their goal and 35% possession. The defence and keeper must have played incredibly well, but no shots?

Watch full games and make your own analysis based on what you're seeing, not just on the game's built-in analysis.

[FMunderachiever]

11 hours ago, daleturley said:

I was wondering if anybody could help me. It's getting to the point where I can barely play anymore because it's getting soooo boring, and I suspect it's this massive amount of data everybody talks about.

I'm playing as Milan, in my second season - the first season was OK; I set pretty much every responsibility to assistant manager.

Second season I've taken over some more of the responsibilities. I've taken over training (using downloaded schedules, and some individual training), which seems to be going well, as plenty of players are improving quite a lot. I've also taken over the opposition instructions and contract negotiations. When I watch the highlights the players seem better connected to each other, moving the ball around quickly etc.

Yet I've never, not once, beaten a bigger side than me. I've only managed to hold onto a 1-0 once. Every other time there's an equaliser in the last 20 minutes.

When I watch the Extended or Comprehensive highlights it's probably 80% the opposition with the ball - this is where I'm getting so fed up. Every time a highlight starts and I see it's the opposition again I just feel like switching off.

When we have the ball it's normally one of my players running into the opposition, losing the ball and back they come again.

My xG is normally close to the oppositions, occasionally quite a way above. We're having lots of shots, but a low percentage are scored. My defence seems OK, but we're constantly getting beaten by through balls.

My tactics are hardly out there: I play 4-2-3-1, sometimes I drop the AM to a DM if we're playing a team with lots of players up front. The only changes I've made are: shorter passing, higher tempo, distribute to CB, tight marking, prevent GK short kick. Sometimes I play a low front line, standard defensive line, regroup and counter, sometimes I play both high lines and pressing depending.

I suspect my problems are the data - I have absolutely no idea what any of it means.

I looked today and most of my key passes are from Sandro Tonali - well, he's a good player, what's the point?

Most of my goals are from around the penalty spot. OK, don't know what to do with that.

I'm being told to play a high line to stop shots from outside, yet I concede from through balls...

My team report lists lack of depth outside the first team, so I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing well or poorly and have no idea where to look to find out - do I need to watch the full 90 minutes of every game? Up to this point I mainly click stuff and see whether I score, sometimes I make a semi-educated guess such as focusing down the right if their left-back is crap.

I've looked for some information, but I end up reading things such as "if you have high xG and low goals, you need to make your strikers more clinical" which is like saying "to drive a car, get in and drive".

Can anybody help, either with some information suggestions, or decent articles?

 

Thanks.

Hi There

 

I dont think you need to make the game any more complicated than watching matches, and making changes based on what you see. Small and gradual changes.

After a while you should have some patterns of play and types of goal you are susceptible to conceding. Youll also develop an understanding of where strengths and weaknesses lie in opposition formations.

You dont need to watch a full 90 mins, but i tend to watch on comprehensive. I dont mind that i dont play that mnay games a night and a season might take a while. Its ok with me.

But watch enough of the matches, at least at the beginning, to know whats going on within the matches that arent just highlights.

As you watch and progress there must be certain patterns to observe.

You say you struggle to hold onto leads. Thats something you can watch and analyse why, without needing lots of data to do it. Do you drop too deep and invite too much pressure on yourself? are you struggling to defend crosses? What do you do in your team talks and shouts? etc etc.

In terms of your attacking play, you need to define what you want from your attacking play, and how youll get it through the roles you choose. Look out for it in the matches. Theres no need to throw loads of instructions on, as 90% of the style will be defined by the formation, the players roles, and their traits.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by FMunderachiever

[Guest]

Your tactics are a complete mishmash of different styles. The biggest one being counter-pressing, higher pressing and trying to prevent the other team playing out from the back yet you have lowered your own line of engagement(on a balanced mentality) and your defensive line hasn't been pushed up either.

You have a few possession instructions and then put a higher tempo with roles that don't really favour a possession game so you need to have a re-think imo and make your setup a bit more logical.

[Experienced Defender]

15 hours ago, daleturley said:

1. Against a better team, I start with cautious mentality, higher temp and shorter passing, then if I start bright I move up to balanced and then positive (sometimes right to positive)

1. Against a lesser team, I start positive, and then up to attacking

That's a wrong approach. Because the team mentality (alone) is not what makes you either more defensively solid (against better teams) or more dangerous in attack (against weaker opposition). The mentality does affect/adjust all other team instructions, but does not define your core style of play. Your playing style is primarily defined by your selection of roles and duties as well as line of engagement. On that score, a low LOE essentially means defensive football. On the other hand, attack-minded styles of play - whether possession-oriented or fast-transition-based - can be played with either higher or medium (standard) LOE (depending on your strategy). As important, the distance between the D-line and LOE is what defines your level of defensive compactness along with the setup of roles and duties and formation you use (top-heavy, bottom-heavy, with or without a DM etc.). Defensive compactness is very important regardless of your playing style, although it matters more in defensive-minded styles.

The selection of roles and duties is key. It needs to be:

1. Well-balanced in the sense that it creates an optimal balance between attacking penetration and defensive stability

2. Logically designed in terms of how roles create space for one another in attack through their interaction 

3. Coherent in the sense of a clearly defined tactical style (for example, possession football and counter-attacking football have different requirements in terms of roles/duties selection)

Instructions, including the mentality, are of secondary importance compared to the setup of roles and duties, simply because how your players behave on the pitch is for the most part already defined by their roles/duties and interaction between them. Once you have created a balanced and sensible setup of roles and duties that suits your intended style of play, you need just a couple basic instructions (if any) to define that style a bit more closely.

Instructions need to be in harmony both with the tactical style defined by your selection of roles and duties and among themselves (do not mix possession-friendly instructions with a fast-transition/counter-attacking setup of roles and duties or possession-friendly in-possession instructions with non-possession ones elsewhere). Any tactic needs to be consistent, i.e. without any contradictions. Also look to avoid any kind of tactical overkill (the use of needlessly too many instructions at once).

NOTE: Changing tactics on a game-to-game basis is usually a (very) bad idea because it prevents your players from ever settling into a well-defined tactical style that optimally suits their abilities. Instead, the best approach IMHO is to analyze your players (squad) and then decide on your style of play based on that analysis. Then create a tactic that fits the style and only make very small subtle tweaks as you see fit and based exclusively on what you observe while watching a particular match (not on a random basis). 

[daleturley]

Thanks for the responses. I actually sat and watched the first 10 minutes of a match, and noticed a few things that needed changing.

Although it sounds obvious to select 'full match' now it's not something I'd considered before - I always watch the Comprehensive Highlights (one below full match). The one time I mentioned not watching was because I was completely fed up and couldn't watch.

So, my players were just tapping it to each other (93% possession in the first 10 minutes) - which I know is what I'd instructed them to do, I just didn't see the bigger picture. I have some very good passers in my side, >= 16 for passing, technique, and vision, which seemed to be wasted.

I also noticed that, although Theo Hernandez bombing down the wing was great when watching Comprehensive Highlights, he was actually constantly doing it, having cross attempts blocked at the by-line, and leaving a massive hole in defence.

Also, despite having four really good attacking players, not much was happening. The ball would go to one of them, they'd run at a defender and lose it or play it backwards.

So the changes I made were: slightly more direct passing, standard tempo and removed work the ball into the box. Because my striker isn't great in the air, he's more of a runner with and without the ball, and a finisher, I changed to lower crosses.

I also left the lines on standard and the mentality as balanced. If I'm up against it I drop a midfielder into DM and go to cautious. I'm looking into whether playing narrow defensively is helping or is a fluke, as most through-ball attempts have been intercepted in the last three games.

I also changed DL and DR to wing-back support, AML to inverted winger support, AM to Advanced Playmaker Attack and AMR to Inverted winger attack. In terms of player mentalities I'm now at 3 defence, 4 support, and 3 attack.

My last three results:

I don't know whether those results are a fluke - we are coming off the back of two draws and two losses - but beating Napoli and Lazio like that felt good. Results aside, it feels like they're playing well, so I can take getting beaten by a good side as long as my team play well.

[daleturley]

I'll take that. We were the much better side for the first time (and Leão's goal was not offside ).

[Britrock]

0-0 seems perfectly fair for that game based on the stats and xg. You're not going to win every game, if you start with that expectation you're always going to be annoyed.

[daleturley]

Those results were a fluke by the looks of things. I've just lost 1-0 to Man City - which I expected to lose - with them having over 60% possession and 25 shots, 10 on target to my 1 shot off target.

Then I scraped a 2-1 and just played a second from bottom Parma and been run ragged by a team full of Lionel Messis and Van Dijks who couldn't be stopped and couldn't be beaten.

Thanks for all the attempts at help, but I'm done with this. It's not fun in any way 

[Kieranovks1]

Damn it, we lost him! 

[Guest]

With respect you didn't change much pressing wise which was my biggest issue with the tactic but with the changes you made to roles and duties it literally just looks like shuffling deckchairs.

You identified the correct problem that your attackers were running in to blind alleys which I would have expected with the tactic but then fundamentally didn't change anything at all. 

[SCCP1910]

On 25/02/2021 at 12:24, Experienced Defender said:

That's a wrong approach. Because the team mentality (alone) is not what makes you either more defensively solid (against better teams) or more dangerous in attack (against weaker opposition). The mentality does affect/adjust all other team instructions, but does not define your core style of play. Your playing style is primarily defined by your selection of roles and duties as well as line of engagement. On that score, a low LOE essentially means defensive football. On the other hand, attack-minded styles of play - whether possession-oriented or fast-transition-based - can be played with either higher or medium (standard) LOE (depending on your strategy). As important, the distance between the D-line and LOE is what defines your level of defensive compactness along with the setup of roles and duties and formation you use (top-heavy, bottom-heavy, with or without a DM etc.). Defensive compactness is very important regardless of your playing style, although it matters more in defensive-minded styles.

The selection of roles and duties is key. It needs to be:

1. Well-balanced in the sense that it creates an optimal balance between attacking penetration and defensive stability

2. Logically designed in terms of how roles create space for one another in attack through their interaction 

3. Coherent in the sense of a clearly defined tactical style (for example, possession football and counter-attacking football have different requirements in terms of roles/duties selection)

Instructions, including the mentality, are of secondary importance compared to the setup of roles and duties, simply because how your players behave on the pitch is for the most part already defined by their roles/duties and interaction between them. Once you have created a balanced and sensible setup of roles and duties that suits your intended style of play, you need just a couple basic instructions (if any) to define that style a bit more closely.

Instructions need to be in harmony both with the tactical style defined by your selection of roles and duties and among themselves (do not mix possession-friendly instructions with a fast-transition/counter-attacking setup of roles and duties or possession-friendly in-possession instructions with non-possession ones elsewhere). Any tactic needs to be consistent, i.e. without any contradictions. Also look to avoid any kind of tactical overkill (the use of needlessly too many instructions at once).

NOTE: Changing tactics on a game-to-game basis is usually a (very) bad idea because it prevents your players from ever settling into a well-defined tactical style that optimally suits their abilities. Instead, the best approach IMHO is to analyze your players (squad) and then decide on your style of play based on that analysis. Then create a tactic that fits the style and only make very small subtle tweaks as you see fit and based exclusively on what you observe while watching a particular match (not on a random basis). 

That note is something I learned the hard way recently. I tried to be fancy and play "reactive"  tactics based 100% around identifying through analysis and exploiting the opposition's weakness. I found myself playing completely different styles on a weekly basis and playing poorly. I could generally neutralise the opposing attack, but at the expense of my own. Playing this kind of reactive style could work, but you need to be very good at analysing matches and data, and your players need to be jacks of all trades, with good attributes all round and high adaptability, and it's pretty rare to get that in League Two 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Experienced Defender
inappropriate word