The FM 2021 AMC thread

[Johnny Ace]

All it will do is stretch your team slightly, you have two stoppers at the back so I guess they step up & make up for it 

[sinancihan]

1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

All it will do is stretch your team slightly, you have two stoppers at the back so I guess they step up & make up for it 

thats right if I change CD's duty to Defend they'll start to defend with the goalkeeper hand to hand  

and this is the latest table view.

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by sinancihan

[Johnny Ace]

Going great there, how's your AMC doing??

[sinancihan]

Sadly injured and a lot of rotation in AMC position due to schedule congestion and he will be okay rest of the season (22th game to 38. + european games and FA cup) I'll post his everything end of the season I think on friday. 

[Domoboy23]

A question from me..

Does a team NEED a playmaker assigned on the pitch? I'm always very nervous as I always have either a DLP or AP in the MC or AMC position no matter what the tactic. I've also been reading this thread and noting people using the default CM roles in either defend, support or attack. Do you feel these are really good to create your own role?

Also, other end of the spectrum do people every play with MORE than one playmaker role?

[Experienced Defender]

16 minutes ago, Domoboy23 said:

Does a team NEED a playmaker assigned on the pitch?

Of course not. I have quite a few tactics with no playmaker at all. 

[Johnny Ace]

1 hour ago, Domoboy23 said:

A question from me..

Does a team NEED a playmaker assigned on the pitch? I'm always very nervous as I always have either a DLP or AP in the MC or AMC position no matter what the tactic. I've also been reading this thread and noting people using the default CM roles in either defend, support or attack. Do you feel these are really good to create your own role?

Also, other end of the spectrum do people every play with MORE than one playmaker role?

Nah, you don't need a playmaker, it just adds the risky passing, the focus play & a bit more creative freedom to a role, I very rarely use "exotic" roles & often favour just simple CM roles.  Most of the time you see a tactic & it's BTBMs, playmakers & Mezzalas as if they're better roles to use. I'll use the CMs & don't really add any PIs to them to keep it simple 

I never play with more than one PM but there's nothing to say you can't   

[Johnny Ace]

Bruno's class and great to manage, he showed up in all the big games. Playing here as a AP(A)

 

[Johnny Ace]

[Johnny Ace]

Foden with a hattrick 

 

 

[KCHDD]

@Johnny Ace have you made any changes to your tactic for these recent posts?

[Johnny Ace]

9 minutes ago, KCHDD said:

@Johnny Ace have you made any changes to your tactic for these recent posts?

Yes!! Slightly for the Man United one & the Man City one is has Inverted Wingers which I'm not happy with. I've shared the Man U one with a couple of others so I'll post it up if you want to try it out. It's not a super tactic so it's not going to win everything scoring hundreds of goals. Both won the league & the CL but aren't insta win 

I'll add the Man City one but I just tried it with Bayern & finished 3rd 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Johnny Ace

[KCHDD]

That looks really similar to what I'm using at the moment. I sometimes use DLPde in place of CMde and WBsu and FBat but I think either of those roles fit well into the tactic and don't affect the balance. I really like the CMsu role, prefer it to a B2B with hard coded roaming. I find that it not being told to hold position already gives it enough mobility for a 4231 or even 433. And you could tailor the PIs to the player playing it, for example for Pogba in your tactic then maybe take more risks or direct passing to use his passing and vision, while someone like Kante might have tackle harder instead. For what you mentioned about inverted wingers, I find IWsu with stay wider can borderline do what you want while making diagonal runs closer to the penalty area. I'm not sure whether to go for that or just a plain Wsu (which may cross excessively).

Edit: The City tactic wasn't loading for me just now thats why I only used Pogba in my example. BTW is that Zack Steffen playing right wing? 

Edited August 7, 2021 by KCHDD

[Johnny Ace]

1 minute ago, KCHDD said:

That looks really similar to what I'm using at the moment. I sometimes use DLPde in place of CMde and WBsu and FBat but I think either of those roles fit well into the tactic and don't affect the balance. I really like the CMsu role, prefer it to a B2B with hard coded roaming. I find that it not being told to hold position already gives it enough mobility for a 4231 or even 433. And you could tailor the PIs to the player playing it, for example for Pogba in your tactic then maybe take more risks or direct passing to use his passing and vision, while someone like Kante might have tackle harder instead. For what you mentioned about inverted wingers, I find IWsu with stay wider can borderline do what you want while making diagonal runs closer to the penalty area. I'm not sure whether to go for that or just a plain Wsu (which may cross excessively).

Sound!!! I always find in a 4-2-3-1 the boring CMs are the best, a DLP works great too, I just don't like using one if I'm using an AP. PPMs often mould the CMs so I don't usually bother adding TI's to them, Pogba's are a bit dangerous  I always use fullbacks and reserve wingbacks for teams with a DM for the extra cover

I like wingers in a 4-2-3-1 as they usually have plenty of players to cross too but because I was playing with Man City I felt I needed IW's or IF's which to be honest I'm not a big fan of as it crowds out the final third & prefer doing that in a 4-3-3. I might give your tip a try though, thanks   

[Johnny Ace]

11 minutes ago, KCHDD said:

Edit: The City tactic wasn't loading for me just now thats why I only used Pogba in my example. BTW is that Zack Steffen playing right wing? 

No!!  It's the end of season so everyone's on international duty/ injured. In both pics the lineups aren't the favoured selections 

Neither will load, they're just pictures but there's no PIs or set piece set ups 

[KCHDD]

Yeah admittedly its hard not to use IWs with City because its possibly the closest you can get to the movement from their widemen IRL. Setting them to Wsu or even worse Wat makes them spam crosses and getting them blocked for corners which definitely doesn't happen in real life. But then again IW can stay narrow all the way while they're meant to hug the touchline first then cut in and drag defenders with them when they receive the ball. Perhaps the best example is Mahrez IRL. Do agree with the PIs for CMsu as well, someone like Pogba definitely has enough aggressive PIs to assert himself offensively. I imagine Gundogan would play the role perfectly or at least provide a more balanced, measured approach than Pogba.

[Johnny Ace]

9 minutes ago, KCHDD said:

Yeah admittedly its hard not to use IWs with City because its possibly the closest you can get to the movement from their widemen IRL. Setting them to Wsu or even worse Wat makes them spam crosses and getting them blocked for corners which definitely doesn't happen in real life. But then again IW can stay narrow all the way while they're meant to hug the touchline first then cut in and drag defenders with them when they receive the ball. Perhaps the best example is Mahrez IRL. Do agree with the PIs for CMsu as well, someone like Pogba definitely has enough aggressive PIs to assert himself offensively. I imagine Gundogan would play the role perfectly or at least provide a more balanced, measured approach than Pogba.

Gundo was absolutely amazing for City, KDB as the AMC was off the charts too. Van Der Beek was really good as the CM(S) for Utd. I like having the CM(S) on the side with the WInger so he has a bit of space to go forward into 

Liverpool are the same, you can't use Salah as a right winger, unless you played Salah upfront & Firmino as the number 10 with Jota as a winger but Firmino likes to drop deep 

I suppose Man U in RL use IWs/ IF's with a number 10 I've just never been able to work it in FM  

Edited August 7, 2021 by Johnny Ace

[Johnny Ace]

I did a Leicester with Birmingham, media prediction 18th & this happened:

 

The AMC was pretty useless tbh, but I imagine if you're using KDB, he'll be a lot more effective. It was all about the IF on the left which isn't the point of the thread but I'll take winning the league

 

 

[Bitner]

Bruno for me scored 202 goals in 398 games, quite a good record. Always playing as a AM-A with more creative freedom, shots, passes, dribbling. He as encouraged to do whatever he wanted, and that worked as a charm. 

AMC is really buffed in FM21 (thankfully), so you can find a lot of roles and formations that they'll thrive, i got some sucess with Sivasspor in a 5-3-2 WB and my AMC was a T, so i do think that isn't rocket science to make a AMC play well.

Cheers,
Bitner 

[beverage1982]

13 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

I did a Leicester with Birmingham, media prediction 18th & this happened:

 

The AMC was pretty useless tbh, but I imagine if you're using KDB, he'll be a lot more effective. It was all about the IF on the left which isn't the point of the thread but I'll take winning the league

 

 

I rarely appplaud Birmingham City success but this is a phenomenal achievment. I bet Scotty Hogan was banging them in, inbetween injuries. 

Quick question re: the AP(A), it's a role that I love, but it does dribble a lot, do you think your 10 tends to stay in the hole a lot or move about? I'm starting yet another Villa save with the new signings and no floppy haired prince. Plan to build everything around Buendia so right now I'm torn between AP (S) and AP (A) in a very similar set up. 

[Johnny Ace]

1 minute ago, beverage1982 said:

I rarely appplaud Birmingham City success but this is a phenomenal achievment. I bet Scotty Hogan was banging them in, inbetween injuries. 

Quick question re: the AP(A), it's a role that I love, but it does dribble a lot, do you think your 10 tends to stay in the hole a lot or move about? I'm starting yet another Villa save with the new signings and no floppy haired prince. Plan to build everything around Buendia so right now I'm torn between AP (S) and AP (A) in a very similar set up. 

He did but it was Leko out on the left that really shone

AP(A) & Treq (A) are my two favourites, the main difference I see between an AP(S) & AP(A) is the AP(A) will line up like a second striker during an attack where an AP(S) will lurk on the edge of the box, both are usually the focal points of a counter attack. They both stay pretty central & don't move out wide as much as the Treq does 

Let us know how you get on, I'd love to see more from others that use an AMC  

[beverage1982]

1 minute ago, Johnny Ace said:

He did but it was Leko out on the left that really shone

AP(A) & Treq (A) are my two favourites, the main difference I see between an AP(S) & AP(A) is the AP(A) will line up like a second striker during an attack where an AP(S) will lurk on the edge of the box, both are usually the focal points of a counter attack. They both stay pretty central & don't move out wide as much as the Treq does 

Let us know how you get on, I'd love to see more from others that use an AMC  

That's a really good insight actually. With Leon Bailery and Ollie Watkins potentially coming from out wide in my save I can maybe make Buendia an AP (S) and then give one of them licence to push forwards and join Ings in the box. 

Really great thread though. I feel your pain with inverted wingers and inside forwards cramming the 10 space though. I'm hoping a standard winger, played on the wrong side, with "Cuts inside" PPm will solve some of my problems there.

[VinceLombardi]

7 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

He did but it was Leko out on the left that really shone

AP(A) & Treq (A) are my two favourites, the main difference I see between an AP(S) & AP(A) is the AP(A) will line up like a second striker during an attack where an AP(S) will lurk on the edge of the box, both are usually the focal points of a counter attack. They both stay pretty central & don't move out wide as much as the Treq does 

Let us know how you get on, I'd love to see more from others that use an AMC  

How would you compare these roles to their non-playmaking alternatives (eg. AMs/a, SS)? 

I've been looking to create a "central winger" role in the middle. Not sure where the term comes from, but I saw it on these forums in 2016-2018. Basically it's a central midfield role that's all about dribbling up the middle and carrying the ball into the final third. It's a hybrid creator/scorer that looks to attack the space between the central defenders to either lay on a pass to a forward or take the shot themselves. 

In FM16 I had good success with the AMC SS(a) and in FM18 by pushing it back MC and playing a CM(a) with dribble more, risky passes, etc. 

I have been playing an AMC SS(a) again here in FM21 and it's 90% of what I'm looking for, particularly in the buildup phase. But it doesn't find space in and around the box as well as it did in FM2016 and can get caught up in the defensive line with the STC players. 

Now that I've got the tactic near 100% where I want it, I'm coming back to tweak this role to see if I can get what I want. 

Any suggestions on where I might find what I'm looking for?

 

 

[Johnny Ace]

1 hour ago, VinceLombardi said:

How would you compare these roles to their non-playmaking alternatives (eg. AMs/a, SS)? 

I've been looking to create a "central winger" role in the middle. Not sure where the term comes from, but I saw it on these forums in 2016-2018. Basically it's a central midfield role that's all about dribbling up the middle and carrying the ball into the final third. It's a hybrid creator/scorer that looks to attack the space between the central defenders to either lay on a pass to a forward or take the shot themselves. 

In FM16 I had good success with the AMC SS(a) and in FM18 by pushing it back MC and playing a CM(a) with dribble more, risky passes, etc. 

I have been playing an AMC SS(a) again here in FM21 and it's 90% of what I'm looking for, particularly in the buildup phase. But it doesn't find space in and around the box as well as it did in FM2016 and can get caught up in the defensive line with the STC players. 

Now that I've got the tactic near 100% where I want it, I'm coming back to tweak this role to see if I can get what I want. 

Any suggestions on where I might find what I'm looking for?

 

 

I just use the playmaker role so they get the playmaker tag ie see more of the ball

You could try an AM(A) with dribble more, more risky passes, move into channels/roam from position, think something like that is the best you'll get  

 

[VinceLombardi]

41 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

I just use the playmaker role so they get the playmaker tag ie see more of the ball

You could try an AM(A) with dribble more, more risky passes, move into channels/roam from position, think something like that is the best you'll get  

 

Do you find the playmaker designation to be a hindrance when you play vs DM or double DM formations? I'm concerned the rest of the team will force passes that aren't really there. (They did in FM16)

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by VinceLombardi

[Johnny Ace]

Just now, VinceLombardi said:

Do you find the playmaker designation to be a hindrance when you play vs DM or double DM formations? I'm concerned the rest of the team will force passes that aren't really there. (The did in FM16)

 

Yeah, the DM is the arch nemesis of the AMC  It at least occupies one of their players though 

[04texag]

15 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

He did but it was Leko out on the left that really shone

AP(A) & Treq (A) are my two favourites, the main difference I see between an AP(S) & AP(A) is the AP(A) will line up like a second striker during an attack where an AP(S) will lurk on the edge of the box, both are usually the focal points of a counter attack. They both stay pretty central & don't move out wide as much as the Treq does 

Let us know how you get on, I'd love to see more from others that use an AMC  

Luis Alberto in my Lazio save has crushed it as an AP-A in a 4231, solid stuff. Occasionally, I mix it up and use him as an Enganche as well. 

[Johnny Ace]

7 hours ago, 04texag said:

Luis Alberto in my Lazio save has crushed it as an AP-A in a 4231, solid stuff. Occasionally, I mix it up and use him as an Enganche as well. 

I've tried him & S-M-S out & both are great 

[04texag]

Unfortunately SMS wanted to leave and Man U offered a boatload for him year 1, but he was great for 6 months. 

[Johnny Ace]

1 hour ago, 04texag said:

Unfortunately SMS wanted to leave and Man U offered a boatload for him year 1, but he was great for 6 months. 

Wow, imagine having him Bruno & Pogba 

[gokalpcakir1]

My AMC was incredible last season

that was my tactic

[Johnny Ace]

Top stuff @gokalpcakir1, you should get some PPM's on him!! 

[gokalpcakir1]

19 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Top stuff @gokalpcakir1, you should get some PPM's on him!! 

what would you recommend in ppm

[Johnny Ace]

42 minutes ago, gokalpcakir1 said:

what would you recommend in ppm

Runs on the ball often, gets forward whenever possible, tries killer balls, shoots from distance, anything for him that doesn't take away form your tactic, he can do it all!

[gokalpcakir1]

23 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Runs on the ball often, gets forward whenever possible, tries killer balls, shoots from distance, anything for him that doesn't take away form your tactic, he can do it all!

After getting ahead whenever possible, he started making incredible off-the-ball runs. His stats this season are unbelievable

[Garrlor]

31 minutes ago, gokalpcakir1 said:

After getting ahead whenever possible, he started making incredible off-the-ball runs. His stats this season are unbelievable

That kid is probably one of the best regens I have ever seen on FM. That balance and Agility alone....

[Johnny Ace]

On 10/08/2021 at 20:21, gokalpcakir1 said:

My AMC was incredible last season

that was my tactic

 

He's amazing!! Would love to see him in action

[gokalpcakir1]

Goals scored in the semi-finals and finals of the Champions League. The opportunities he creates with these runs against simpler teams can be much more incredible than these. His runs without the ball are incredible.

 

 

 

[Johnny Ace]

Awesome! That's exactly why I like to use an attack duty for the number 10 because you get those forward runs. Support for me just hangs back too much for what I want.

[RPM_01]

Have to agree - my go to is the AM-A in FM21 for the number 10 and Bruno is consistently good. My Madrid side in the early days practically relied on him most matches to show up, which he did time and time again.

[Djecker]

It's easy to get production out of a great player, but I play him as an AM-A or AM-S with all the freedom (take more risks, shoot more often, get further forward, roam and move into channels) and he produces pretty well for me I would say.

[Johnny Ace]

I think the penny's finally dropped with me with AM Support roles

For example, I was trying to go the route of:

 

                      AF(A)

IF(S)              AP(A)           IF(S)

 

Which meant you'd get all 4 guys in the box, being marked, clogging everything up 

When I try something like:

 

                      AF(A)

IF(S)              AP(S)           IF(S)

 

It's completely different, the AP(S) drop offs a little, stays on the edge of the box & looks for the IF's or striker, there's 3 options to choose from then or he can play it back or wide to the full backs. If an IF is occupied wide, he'll move into the box to fill in. So, he either gets the direct assist for one of the front 3 to score or he's passing to a player to make the assist. They still occupy the other team too, you'll have games were they seemingly do nothing, they may go 10 games without doing anything but they are there, putting pressure on the other team, making their CM's DM's & CB's have to think, maybe closing down your AMC but leaving space in behind for an IF 

When it clicks & you see it in action, you appreciate the support roles a little more. I've tried it with Bruno & KBD & because of their PPMs & set piece taking skills they still wrack up double digit goals & assists, easily 

I'm finding that sort of setup "works" with two inverted players out wide (the IFs, the APs, IW's etc) to not clog the box, them with a Winger, have the AMC going into the box on an attack duty 

Assisting the assister

         

         

Staying deeper to pick up an assist 

Leko & Toral keeping other layers busy leaving a CM free for an assist

Toral getting into the box filling in for Bela

Bonus, Riley scoring a speccy 

 

 

[Dundalis]

Is roam from position a help or hindrance with the AMC getting into the best positions to score or assist? I know it's a help to get them free especially if there is a DM clogging space.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Dundalis

[Johnny Ace]

13 minutes ago, Dundalis said:

Is roam from position a help or hindrance with the AMC getting into the best positions to score or assist? I know it's a help to get them free especially if there is a DM clogging space.

I'd say it's absolute worth trying to get a bit more movement from him 

[Christopher S]

1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

I think the penny's finally dropped with me with AM Support roles

For example, I was trying to go the route of:

 

                      AF(A)

IF(S)              AP(A)           IF(S)

 

Which meant you'd get all 4 guys in the box, being marked, clogging everything up 

When I try something like:

 

                      AF(A)

IF(S)              AP(S)           IF(S)

 

It's completely different, the AP(S) drop offs a little, stays on the edge of the box & looks for the IF's or striker, there's 3 options to choose from then or he can play it back or wide to the full backs. If an IF is occupied wide, he'll move into the box to fill in. So, he either gets the direct assist for one of the front 3 to score or he's passing to a player to make the assist. They still occupy the other team too, you'll have games were they seemingly do nothing, they may go 10 games without doing anything but they are there, putting pressure on the other team, making their CM's DM's & CB's have to think, maybe closing down your AMC but leaving space in behind for an IF 

When it clicks & you see it in action, you appreciate the support roles a little more. I've tried it with Bruno & KBD & because of their PPMs & set piece taking skills they still wrack up double digit goals & assists, easily 

I'm finding that sort of setup "works" with two inverted players out wide (the IFs, the APs, IW's etc) to not clog the box, them with a Winger, have the AMC going into the box on an attack duty 

Assisting the assister

         

         

Staying deeper to pick up an assist 

Leko & Toral keeping other layers busy leaving a CM free for an assist

Toral getting into the box filling in for Bela

Bonus, Riley scoring a speccy 

 

 

Out of curiosity how do you get the most of out an AF in this setup, in terms of mentality and team instructions? Having IFs - APs - IFs implies a possession heavy buildup to me, and an AF is inherently a very direct striker role. It seems a bit counter intuitive, but who am I to judge :P 

[Johnny Ace]

2 minutes ago, Christopher S said:

Out of curiosity how do you get the most of out an AF in this setup, in terms of mentality and team instructions? Having IFs - APs - IFs implies a possession heavy buildup to me, and an AF is inherently a very direct striker role. It seems a bit counter intuitive, but who am I to judge :P 

Nah, it's not possession based, it's an attacking, short play pressing tactic. The strikers do well  

That's just stopping a save mid test. I think Martial scored 36 with Man U with Cavani another 12, Aguero & Jesus got 50 between them 

They're the focal point in the tactic so I'd expect them to score 

 

[plcarlos]

This is how I've setup for my AF. I've done this from season 1 in order to make the use and growth of Scarlett, Right winger is normally an W-S, and I really shold swap FB roles and with the CM sides. Trying to train Cut's inside from wide to my W-S, but he's injured ATM.

Of course I'm Year 2025, and there are some wonderkid newgens in now. I invert all bar the CF\AM based on my players.

Foden (Got him for Silly money due to contract issues) Kane, and NewGen Milton are tearing it up in the AM-A slot, Staying nice and high for attacks, and feeding the Strikers massively. PPM of plays Killer balls Helps that.

If it's getting more of the AF, it's about playing to their strengths. Same as it is for the AM - In my Setup, I'm working on trying to give the AM many targets to feed, and Getting silly Goal numbers for the AF.

Pace\Accel, and Movement seemt o be Key to getting good performances out of the AF for me.

 

[Johnny Ace]

That's exactly how I like to set up @plcarloswith the winger on the right side, I like to invert it too for left footed wide players. The AMC can be a Treq or an AP(A). I had an awesome save in FM20 with it. TI's are different but not by a million miles  

Edited August 15, 2021 by Johnny Ace

[Johnny Ace]

Here's 'arry at the end of the season

 

This is the full tactic, finished 6th & an FA Cup Final loss to Liverpool (the EPL's end game boss) so not bad but too leaky in defence. Was 3rd/4th most of the season & we tailed off, probably down to all the cup involvement 

[Johnny Ace]

Trying it with Liverpool with Salah as an AF

Just scored 6 in one game 

 

Leeds v Liverpool.pkm

 

Added the offside trap & it worked well with Liverpool, going to try it with West Ham now. Firmino at AP(S) didn't turn out great but didn't think he would tbh 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Johnny Ace