How can I get the best out of Messi?

[Nima2708]

I feel every year the same with Messi, its hard to create his real stats in the game. I mean you get Haaland to score 40-50 goals but Messi......

I feel like I am Argentina's manager, just cant get the best out of him.

have you got something out of that is like real like? He gets high avarage rating. But not enough goals.

I have tried him in a pair upfront, solo striker, out on the wing and behind the striker.

As a Enganche he is awesome he controls the game but don't score. 
Any tip? Anyone who have tried him and can share some tips?

[DNZ-8]

@Nima2708 

I'm surprise to see his physical attributes still so high at 33.

In any case I would play him as a Trequartista in the striker position (alone) in some system like a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. Another possibility would Trequartista on the right in a 4-3-3, but the first option is the best in my opinion. In any case I think that in order to get the best out of him, it is important to play some sort of "Tiki Taka" (just like in real life), so that he gets involved at the beginning (almost) of the play and goes to finish it later in the box. Also this playing style should allow you to keep him longer when his physical will start to decline rapidly. 

This is just my idea for what it's worth.  

[Experienced Defender]

If your question is which specific role would optimally suit Messi, my immediate answer would be - trequartista. However, no role is going to work if it does not fit into the setup/tactic as a whole, so playing him as a TQ (or whatever role) does not guarantee he will perform well or score goals or get good ratings etc.

But you failed to share a screenshot of your tactic, so it's impossible to offer any specific advice. 

[Nima2708]

1 hour ago, DNZ-8 said:

@Nima2708 

I'm surprise to see his physical attributes still so high at 33.

In any case I would play him as a Trequartista in the striker position (alone) in some system like a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. Another possibility would Trequartista on the right in a 4-3-3, but the first option is the best in my opinion. In any case I think that in order to get the best out of him, it is important to play some sort of "Tiki Taka" (just like in real life), so that he gets involved at the beginning (almost) of the play and goes to finish it later in the box. Also this playing style should allow you to keep him longer when his physical will start to decline rapidly. 

This is just my idea for what it's worth.  

its insane stats! hehe but I still belive he should have higher pace. When he runs with the ball......
I have tested him as a trequista as a solo striker (like pep style) but he always gets the ball with his back to goal. It can be because of his trait?

[Nima2708]

16 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

If your question is which specific role would optimally suit Messi, my immediate answer would be - trequartista. However, no role is going to work if it does not fit into the setup/tactic as a whole, so playing him as a TQ (or whatever role) does not guarantee he will perform well or score goals or get good ratings etc.

But you failed to share a screenshot of your tactic, so it's impossible to offer any specific advice. 

sorry mate, well I tried him mostly in tiki taka styles
Slow tempo, much shorter passing and the width small.
Problem is that anyway I try him he gets his back on goal and starts play the ball to wide areas.
He gets the ball most as Treq when he have a advanced forward in front of him, but again he dont score. I start to believe all of his traits makes it impossible for him to be big goalscorer?

I am testing him in a more gegen style where he is a shadow striker. somewhat better but still.

 

to make it easy, I started this project about getting goals from messi, so when I fail i restart and try new tactic. its just about getting him to score 40+
Cant sleep to I have achieved that. really messing up with my head hehe.

[Nima2708]

30 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

If your question is which specific role would optimally suit Messi, my immediate answer would be - trequartista. However, no role is going to work if it does not fit into the setup/tactic as a whole, so playing him as a TQ (or whatever role) does not guarantee he will perform well or score goals or get good ratings etc.

But you failed to share a screenshot of your tactic, so it's impossible to offer any specific advice. 

This is the tactic I am testing now, very unlike barca but. I am forcing the ball to "past" him so he comes with his head to goal and that he isint so involved in the build up. Hope for cutback from WB. results are okey but , messi is only assist guy.

[wixxi]

19 minutes ago, Nima2708 said:

sorry mate, well I tried him mostly in tiki taka styles
Slow tempo, much shorter passing and the width small.
Problem is that anyway I try him he gets his back on goal and starts play the ball to wide areas.
He gets the ball most as Treq when he have a advanced forward in front of him, but again he dont score. I start to believe all of his traits makes it impossible for him to be big goalscorer?

I am testing him in a more gegen style where he is a shadow striker. somewhat better but still.

 

to make it easy, I started this project about getting goals from messi, so when I fail i restart and try new tactic. its just about getting him to score 40+
Cant sleep to I have achieved that. really messing up with my head hehe.

It makes sense that he does this since he has 'Comes deep to get ball' and 'Likes to switch ball to other flank'. Like you said, his traits will make it difficult for him to get the output you want since he will always gravitate towards being a playmaker rather than a pure goalscorer, regardless of his attributes. Still as others have suggested I would play him as a trequartista, potentially with some sort of supporting striker in front to use for one-twos since he has the trait to play them.

Also not really sure what the thinking is behind trying to make him press in that system when he has 7 workrate and 7 aggression.

Edited March 23, 2021 by wixxi

[mefirst]

In FM20 I played him as a MC advanced playmaker. Perfect passing and he made lots of goal scoring chances for others. 

[RPM_01]

I have to admit I've struggled with Messi through the FM's. 

Currently have him as a F9 this time though and he's banging in the goals, averaging more than a goal a game in around 30 games. 

----------------------F9----------------------

IF-At --------------------------------IW-su

-------------AP-Su---CM-At-------------

------------------DLP-Su------------------

WB-Su--BPD-De--BPD-De--WB-At

 

The theory was that he has the options of runners around him to either pass to or use as decoys for defenders to have to pick up. Relies on high pressing to work with no midfielder on defend so can be prone to counters but I'm ok with that as I love the way the DLP-Su works. 

[Experienced Defender]

11 hours ago, Nima2708 said:

sorry mate, well I tried him mostly in tiki taka styles
Slow tempo, much shorter passing and the width small

These are just instructions (which btw already look like overkill). I need to see the whole tactic, especially the setup of roles and duties, which is the most important part of any tactic. "Tiki-taka styles" means nothing in isolation. 

[Experienced Defender]

11 hours ago, Nima2708 said:

With so many needless instructions + the needlessly asymmetric formation, the tactic looks like a total mess to me. I would make it way more simple.

[Vizzini]

Why not try strikerless? 

[Nima2708]

14 hours ago, wixxi said:

It makes sense that he does this since he has 'Comes deep to get ball' and 'Likes to switch ball to other flank'. Like you said, his traits will make it difficult for him to get the output you want since he will always gravitate towards being a playmaker rather than a pure goalscorer, regardless of his attributes. Still as others have suggested I would play him as a trequartista, potentially with some sort of supporting striker in front to use for one-twos since he has the trait to play them.

Also not really sure what the thinking is behind trying to make him press in that system when he has 7 workrate and 7 aggression.

i know he wont work but in this way I hoped he is not so much part of the build up. and get the ball in front of him and as cut back from wb hehe

[Nima2708]

6 hours ago, RPM_01 said:

I have to admit I've struggled with Messi through the FM's. 

Currently have him as a F9 this time though and he's banging in the goals, averaging more than a goal a game in around 30 games. 

----------------------F9----------------------

IF-At --------------------------------IW-su

-------------AP-Su---CM-At-------------

------------------DLP-Su------------------

WB-Su--BPD-De--BPD-De--WB-At

 

The theory was that he has the options of runners around him to either pass to or use as decoys for defenders to have to pick up. Relies on high pressing to work with no midfielder on defend so can be prone to counters but I'm ok with that as I love the way the DLP-Su works. 

Thanks mate! I will try it.

did you go short with fast play ore slow?

[Nima2708]

2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

With so many needless instructions + the needlessly asymmetric formation, the tactic looks like a total mess to me. I would make it way more simple.

Thanks, but the tactics have been giving me good results. I have even more pi then TI lol.

but my main problem is making  a way to get the best player at world to score as much as he does in real life. Because its easy to get haaland scoring 40+ goals but to get Messi to that is hard.

so my thoughts is more building a tactic to get messi to score. what have to be done to get a player with his traits and stat to score what he does in real life. I need to break that code as I have hard time doing it

[Lordluap]

I play FM20.  This is second season... coming up to December:

Messi playing AMR as a Trequarista with Sit Narrower PI. Just allowed to do his thing.

Lautaro as PF/a has even better stats. It's my attempt at a recreation of the "MSN", 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Lordluap

[Lasson]

Five playmakers in one tactic? Surely not. 

[Guv'nor]

1 hour ago, Lasson said:

Five playmakers in one tactic? Surely not. 

One big game of Wembley singles. #Oldschool

[denen123]

Mezala on attack in a 4-3-3. You'll have to protect him on the wings, because he lacks workrate. 

[FMunderachiever]

You let the little guy do his thing.

Trequartista, with a solid shape around him.

[crusadertsar]

10 hours ago, Nima2708 said:

Thanks, but the tactics have been giving me good results. I have even more pi then TI lol.

but my main problem is making  a way to get the best player at world to score as much as he does in real life. Because its easy to get haaland scoring 40+ goals but to get Messi to that is hard.

so my thoughts is more building a tactic to get messi to score. what have to be done to get a player with his traits and stat to score what he does in real life. I need to break that code as I have hard time doing it

Well just a thought but maybe the reason why he is not scoring as much as you like is because your tactic is not made to get the best out of him. Like @Experienced Defender tried to suggest that there are alot of things that don't work well with your tactic. Honestly it looks too complicated for its own good with all of those TIs and PIs. Anyway you can take his advise or leave it. But most people on these forums will tell you that often less is better than more and balanced tactics actually give better results than asymmetric ones full of instructions. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by crusadertsar

[denen123]

4 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Well just a thought but maybe the reason why he is not scoring as much as you like is because your tactic is not made to get the best out of him. Like @Experienced Defender tried to suggest that there are alot of things that don't work well with your tactic. Honestly it looks too complicated for its own good with all of those TIs and PIs. Anyway you can take his advise or leave it. But most people on these forums will tell you that often less is better than more and balanced tactics actually give better results than asymmetric ones full of instructions. 

But he said the tactic actually works. So rather than throwing it off, just maybe suggest a tactic like he's asking, no? There's also no real data to assume that none- Assymetric tactics give "better results" than asymmetrical ones. None. Better results in goals? Number of wins? What?

Also, "balanced" tactics can be made to be less vague. Balanced in roles? Setup according to style of play? I think ad ice should always be clear, especially according to what people request.

[Lordluap]

14 hours ago, Lasson said:

Five playmakers in one tactic? Surely not. 

Crazy huh?

 

[RPM_01]

19 hours ago, Nima2708 said:

Thanks mate! I will try it.

did you go short with fast play ore slow?

Attacking mentality to get more forward runs, shorter passing and higher tempo.

[Johnny Ace]

Surely, playing him as an IF(A) on the right in a decent 4-3-3/ 4-2-3-1 & he'll rip it up?

[Guv'nor]

Top up his wages. 

4 hours ago, denen123 said:

Symmetrical tactics give "better results" than Asymmetrical ones

Asymmetry is a useful tool if deployed with purpose and can activate certain traits and qualities. But what is asymmetry? Is a flat 4-4-2 with an inverted winger on one side and an orthodox winger on the other, not asymmetrical in effect? 

From a purely schematic perspective, again asymmetry can be useful, but asymmetry for the point of being asymmetrical is pointless.  

[denen123]

5 hours ago, Guv'nor said:

Top up his wages. 

Asymmetry is a useful tool if deployed with purpose and can activate certain traits and qualities. But what is asymmetry? Is a flat 4-4-2 with an inverted winger on one side and an orthodox winger on the other, not asymmetrical in effect? 

From a purely schematic perspective, again asymmetry can be useful, but asymmetry for the point of being asymmetrical is pointless.  

Don't believe that is what OP was going for(a pointless asymetry). He even said it works. Plus, generalised statements like what I was replying to and debunking is what we ought to be against, especially, if no real data has been generated to prove it. 

There's also a debate as to there being no ultimate definition to what is a "more" balanced or "true" as it concerns setting up tactics. There's a thread here were people use one CD in their tactics and still get results. Is that a "balanced" tactic? Or even a logical one?. But that is a rabbit hole I wish not to enter.

The OP asked for a better way to get Messi to play at optimum. Thay should be the focus. Role change? Tactical tweaks? Instructions tweak? Yes, very good. Not unproven theories/generalised statement asymmetrical shapes or what not.

[Guv'nor]

Point being made was asymmetry is a useful tool and in many instances, may represent the best structuring of a team and deployment of players. 

Much like Jorge Luis Sierra and Valdivia of CMs past, of centre works a treat. 

Not quite King Leo, but had a mercurial talent at Orlando Pirates, Siphesihle Ndlovu. Wide right or AMRC. Position either of the two, role dependent on opposition. Cracker, Robbie Coltrane. Solid seasons back to back to back. 

[Nima2708]

8 hours ago, denen123 said:

Don't believe that is what OP was going for(a pointless asymetry). He even said it works. Plus, generalised statements like what I was replying to and debunking is what we ought to be against, especially, if no real data has been generated to prove it. 

There's also a debate as to there being no ultimate definition to what is a "more" balanced or "true" as it concerns setting up tactics. There's a thread here were people use one CD in their tactics and still get results. Is that a "balanced" tactic? Or even a logical one?. But that is a rabbit hole I wish not to enter.

The OP asked for a better way to get Messi to play at optimum. Thay should be the focus. Role change? Tactical tweaks? Instructions tweak? Yes, very good. Not unproven theories/generalised statement asymmetrical shapes or what not.

Thanks
Just as you said, I am purley after understaning how I can get more out of Messi in this game.

When it comes to why I used the asymetry, When I use some of the players that "chase" the ball more, as a AMR they will collide with Messi when he is playing nr 10. So If use Fati that moves in to channel, its okey to have him as AMR, but others that I know will ask for the ball more I put them as MR (same role). In that way I get a triangle with wb, mr and Messi. That is also why I bought in Navas, because he plays  one two
So the hope was to make a triangle where they set up messi with his against opostion goal.

Also I agree on some teams and players keep it simple, but with good teams and good players TI and PI. but the key dont do it to hard for your self ore overkill.
Some like it with many TI and some ease off with less?

 

[Nima2708]

Anyway I have found something that started to work here:

I changed the striker to a TQ
deleted some PI on the Shadow striker
made the TQ and shadow striker to change places in the game.

What I can see is, when Messi plays striker in this set up, here scores some crazy solo goals when he plays striker as TQ and the shadow striker make space for him to bring the ball. As a Shadow striker he scores at set back from Navas (tap in). But rarely I see a nice solo goal.

So far results

Messi stats;

 

tactic with changes pi on shadow striker: