Message to SI

[mancity12]

PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN TO THE MOANERS

This game has a few minor issues. The issues are not however the tactics or goal attempts etc. They are very small things such as the bad graphics of the match engine and game freezes every now and again and the press conferences - that can be lived with.

I am bored of all the 'I cant score' (teach your strikers to go round the GK in preferred moves for gods sake!) or 'I cannot create a wonder tactic' or 'The game cheats' posts. They are sad and should be deleted from the forum if you ask me.

Since the game came out, I have been trying different tactics non-stop and spending endless hours (at work that is!) thinking of ways to improve my tactics and tweaking things. That IS the game for me. Not actually playing it, but the way you become engrossed and cannot stop thinking of 'well, if I do that, and adjust this a little, then maybe this will happen' and then trying it out.

Im FM08, it was all too simple to create a wonder tactic in under an hour. I achieved it without any help at all. Now in FM09, I found (and still find) myself reading through a 50-page document to help me understand. I love this.

Maybe you could release a 'baby' version of FM09 with a red button on the match screen for all the moaners? When losing, press the red, and get an instant goal. Thats what their asking for isnt it?

[vieires]

I have a message for SI too...

THANK YOU!

[PhroX]

I'm with you completely. I love this game because it's a bitch. I'm sick and tired of the dumbed down, lowest common denominator crap that passes for mainstream gaming these days, and I think it's great that FM is hard. I like having to think. I like it when things don't work how I wanted them to. I like having to spend hours fiddling with the tactics. Why? Because when it finally all clicks, and I take my team to glory, then the feeling of accomplishment is so much greater.

[Hammer1000]

I was just wondering WHO you guys were playing as?

[mancity12]

Im playing as Man City.

[CaptainPlanet]

People are "moaning" because the game has got progressively harder over the years and also now needs a high level of computer spec to play, thus only really catering to only hardcore gamers.

It's not the casual pick-up-and-play game that is used to be. And as such they've annoyed a large part of their fanbase.

I'm ok as I'm someone who will spend lots of hours in developing tactics, but a LOT of people aren't willing to do this. The Easy-mode thread is a good respresentation of this feeling.

[Hammer1000]

Im playing as Man City.

I cant help but wonder, if you would have started this thread had you been a Fulham, Bolton West Ham fan etc, whose bank balances are not as overinflated as City's?

[Yasko75]

It`s your tactics...

[supersaint]

I think he would. Its quite possible to be just as successfull with clubs like the ones mentioned - it just takes a bit longer than people might be used to.

I love the way SI is going with this, even if Im loosing a lot of hair over it, but at the same time I can understand those who dont like it.

[mancity12]

I cant help but wonder, if you would have started this thread had you been a Fulham, Bolton West Ham fan etc, whose bank balances are not as overinflated as City's?

Yes I would have still started the thread. I have only bought two players for City (Bale & Diarra), so money hasn't really come into it.

[Los_Ches2000]

Couldnt agree more, ur Man City?? shocker! Try going some shitter and see how u do mate

[mancity12]

Couldnt agree more, ur Man City?? shocker! Try going some shitter and see how u do mate

Its all relative though isnt it.

Im Man City and trying to win every single game to break into the top four.

If I were hull for example, I wouldnt be trying to win every game so wouldn't be dis-heartened with defeats.

Just because im a bigger team, its still very difficult because your expected to win more AND City are by no means, the best team in the league or game.

[Hammer1000]

Yes I would have still started the thread. I have only bought two players for City (Bale & Diarra), so money hasn't really come into it.

What i'm saying is, there is a massive difference playing the game as City or one of the Big Four, or Barca etc, etc than there is playing as a mediocre side.

I am still playing the Demo until i can get to grips with a tactic for West Ham. I have already played through the Demo as City, Pool, Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea and it was easy, i did'nt even need to change tactics during a game, i just played and won basically!

With poorer sides there is little or no consistency, one minute i can have 12 shots against Liverpool away and the next game not manage a single shot at home to Stoke or Hull? you wont see any of this playing as City, so all i'm saying is, before you congratulate SI on such a brilliant game, you might just want to see it from a few more perspectives first?

[mancity12]

It is not easy with City, so I cannot agree with you.

If you think you can play any tactic with a top-four team (which City are not) and win every game then I need to question whether you are telling the truth about actually having played the game at all.

On my first game, I lost the first 4 in a row with City - Hardly easy.

[tony wright]

Couldn't agree more. The game is great, I'm playing as West Brom, It's a struggle to keep them in the Prem but what do you expect with a team without millions to spend. Well done SI!

[mancity12]

Couldn't agree more. The game is great, I'm playing as West Brom, It's a struggle to keep them in the Prem but what do you expect with a team without millions to spend. Well done SI!

Exactly. Lower teams cannot win the league straight away. It wouldn't be realistic.

[Hammer1000]

It is not easy with City, so I cannot agree with you.

If you think you can play any tactic with a top-four team (which City are not) and win every game then I need to question whether you are telling the truth about actually having played the game at all.

On my first game, I lost the first 4 in a row with City - Hardly easy.

I dont wish to argue with you, its great that you can enjoy the game the way/as much as you do.

What i normally find though, is that 99 out of 100 people who say the game is spot on and not to listen to the moaners, are usually playing the game as a massive club, OR a club with massive transfer funds like yourself.

Basically its like playing a totally different game.

[mancity12]

I dont wish to argue with you, its great that you can enjoy the game the way/as much as you do.

What i normally find though, is that 99 out of 100 people who say the game is spot on and not to listen to the moaners, are usually playing the game as a massive club, OR a club with massive transfer funds like yourself.

Basically its like playing a totally different game.

No its not.

Better teams are more consistent. That is why they are better.

Teams like Bolton, Hull, West Brom and the like are less consistent. That is a fact.

Would you prefer it if you were West Brom and won every game for example?

Not arguing BTW - Just friendly banter

[supersaint]

I dont wish to argue with you, its great that you can enjoy the game the way/as much as you do.

What i normally find though, is that 99 out of 100 people who say the game is spot on and not to listen to the moaners, are usually playing the game as a massive club, OR a club with massive transfer funds like yourself.

Basically its like playing a totally different game.

Of course its a different game - cant argue with that. But the tactical part of the game still remains the same.

Only difference is that you cant expect a player in BSN to act like Ronaldo with the same settings. He will act differently, and you have to treat him differently to make the most of him.

This is what I do like with the game - different thinking on different levels.

What I would like SI to improve(that perhaps could take away some of the moaning) is the AM feedback. Allthough I dont need it myself anymore, I can see how it confuses people, because of how the AM is giving feedback.

"We miss to many easy passes" - OK, then. But what is an easy pass? I have one interpretation, someone else has another.

This leads people to be frustrated, because they are trying to understand what is going wrong, but find little help in the AM - which was brought in as an aid.

(just look at the number of threads that is about the gap between defence and midfield)

[Hammer1000]

No its not.

Better teams are more consistent. That is why they are better.

This is what i'm saying mate, i dont disagree, all i'm saying is that you are seeing the game from a different perspective

Teams like Bolton, Hull, West Brom and the like are less consistent. That is a fact.

Would you prefer it if you were West Brom and won every game for example?

No and thats not what i'm saying, like i said, its just a different game.

Not arguing BTW - Just friendly banter

Me neither mate!

[Jesus Seba]

No its not.

Better teams are more consistent. That is why they are better.

Teams like Bolton, Hull, West Brom and the like are less consistent. That is a fact.

Would you prefer it if you were West Brom and won every game for example?

Not arguing BTW - Just friendly banter

Surely the point of the game (if managing Hull and West Brom) is to try and achieve that consistency with good players and a tactic that suits them, like Hull in real life, if it is predetermined (and i'm not saying it is) into the game that Hull and West Brom will be terribly inconsistent while United and Chelsea will win 9/10 there seems to be very little point in playing.

My message to SI is as an Arsenal season ticket holder I have seen a team go 49 games unbeaten playing exactly the same way, even when trying to protect a lead Wenger would bring on Cygan at left midfield rather than disrupt his 4-4-2.

What he didn't do was say "we're playing West Brom this week maybe I should play a 4-5-1 and go more direct", infact the first time he has ever done that was at Stoke this season he picked basically our tallest eleven and you saw how well that worked out.

Don't get me wrong I love the tactical set up on the game and being able to position and instruct each player exactly how I'm picturing he should be, that part is spot on, but this need to have 4 or 5 different tactics to outsmart the opposing manager just doesn't happen (or if it does its very rare) in real life, if anything the constant fiddling of tactics/instructions should confuse your players, look at England when Eriksson tried to change (all be it only slightly) the formation.

I think you have just seen people maybe finding the game too easy and have looked at ways of making it harder as opposed to realistic.

[footynut]

Surely the point of the game (if managing Hull and West Brom) is to try and achieve that consistency with good players and a tactic that suits them, like Hull in real life, if it is predetermined (and i'm not saying it is) into the game that Hull and West Brom will be terribly inconsistent while United and Chelsea will win 9/10 there seems to be very little point in playing.

My message to SI is as an Arsenal season ticket holder I have seen a team go 49 games unbeaten playing exactly the same way, even when trying to protect a lead Wenger would bring on Cygan at left midfield rather than disrupt his 4-4-2.

What he didn't do was say "we're playing West Brom this week maybe I should play a 4-5-1 and go more direct", infact the first time he has ever done that was at Stoke this season he picked basically our tallest eleven and you saw how well that worked out.

Don't get me wrong I love the tactical set up on the game and being able to position and instruct each player exactly how I'm picturing he should be, that part is spot on, but this need to have 4 or 5 different tactics to outsmart the opposing manager just doesn't happen (or if it does its very rare) in real life.

I think you have just seen people maybe finding the game too easy and have looked at ways of making it harder as opposed to realistic.

From my experience you don't need to change formations all the time to achieve success. I us a 4-4-2 all the time and do quite well. The things you need to adjust are mentality, defensive line, closing down, tempo etc all things that Wenger would actually do.

[Jesus Seba]

From my experience you don't need to change formations all the time to achieve success. I us a 4-4-2 all the time and do quite well. The things you need to adjust are mentality, defensive line, closing down, tempo etc all things that Wenger would actually do.

To be honest they barely changed either, mentality attacking, high line, closing down often, tempo fast. If any of these changed it would be down to players tiring and dropping off, getting complacent if they are a few goals up and dropping off or being on the back foot never at Wenger's instruction though.

[Powello]

I have found success with only one formation and tactic. Im currently playing as Dorchester in the BSS, I am using a flat 442 and i do not tweak from game to game, i do sometimes tweak in game if im losing and thats only the width and tempo sliders and then only slightly.

The first season i was predicted to finish 21st and i managed to finish 12th, if it wasn'r for my bad start with a bad 451 formation then i would of made the play offs easily.

And now in the second season I have won the BSS with 7 games to spare and im 21pts ahead without looking like that gap closing. I have also managed to get some bigger team scalps in the cups.

So I can sympathise with some peoples moans but also I think if you perservere with it and study the match engine then anyone can do well. The problem is a lot of people are not prepared to do this and all they do is moan about it. I understand some people don't have the time to do this but I reckon most of them haven't even bothered and will probably try every tactic that people post on here instead and then moan that they aren't working from them.

For those people its going to be a no win situation and for that I feel sorry for them cause they can't even be bothered to try and that is their fault not SI's.

So a message to them, stop spending all their time moaning on here and to anyone who listens and start making an effort, It's not SI's problem it their own.

[footynut]

To be honest they barely changed either, mentality attacking, high line, closing down often, tempo fast. If any of these changed it would be down to players tiring and dropping off, getting complacent if they are a few goals up and dropping off or being on the back foot never at Wenger's instruction though.

I bet if you ever had the chance to speak to Wenger you would actually be amazed at how many subtle changes he makes during a game. All managers do although to the fan it's not always easy to see.

It's impossible to go in to every game and have success playing exactly the same way.

[Millie]

These sorts of threads are as useless as the moaning threads, in my opinion. I totally agree with the OP, but let's get this locked, for our own sanity...

[mancity12]

What's wrong with this thread?

IT IS A DISCUSSION BOARD.

[robertgreen99]

if your going to waste time moaning about the game you obviously aren’t happy with it and don’t like it so stop playing it!! end off!!

The game is great and is realistic as it possibly can be for a game of this magnitude

if you not happy with the bugs etc then stop playing it for 6 months and then patch it. Its not rocket science!

[speedphlux]

It's a damn good thread I say !

Everyone, or at least most of us, have suffered tactical mishaps and unable to maintain streak situations. And to blame it on the money your team has or hasn't got is silly. Nor is the tactics you're using. Nor it's luck. Those things just happen.

In my humble experience with FM09 I've found out that team gelling is far more important then the tactics you're using. Keep in mind that even well gelled teams need an injection of fresh blood once in a while. Limit your transfers to 3 pre-season and 1 in mid-season and that thing is guaranteed. Also take note of the players personalities and language skills. Somehow french players seems reluctant to learn english and it takes more to gel them into the squad.

Take an easy approach in your first season, don't aim for the stars. Once the first season's over you'll know exactly what your team needs. The seasons are long, so make sure you manage to "flow" as it goes. Squad rotations are essential, but make sure you take note of the games that are comming after the one you're about to play, as you don't want a key player or two to be missing away game vs. Chelsea or Man Utd.

Basically ... just live the game, don't click and play it. So far I've managed to make 2 long undefeated runs with my squad. One of 19 games undefeated and the second one is currently at 27 games undefeated. Got a couple of draws, but hey - that's life, draws happen.

There's no need to complain and moan if your team doesn't win every game. Just try harder ... or cooler.

[Hammer1000]

It's a damn good thread I say !

Everyone, or at least most of us, have suffered tactical mishaps and unable to maintain streak situations. And to blame it on the money your team has or hasn't got is silly. Nor is the tactics you're using. Nor it's luck. Those things just happen.

In my humble experience with FM09 I've found out that team gelling is far more important then the tactics you're using. Keep in mind that even well gelled teams need an injection of fresh blood once in a while. Limit your transfers to 3 pre-season and 1 in mid-season and that thing is guaranteed. Also take note of the players personalities and language skills. Somehow french players seems reluctant to learn english and it takes more to gel them into the squad.

Take an easy approach in your first season, don't aim for the stars. Once the first season's over you'll know exactly what your team needs. The seasons are long, so make sure you manage to "flow" as it goes. Squad rotations are essential, but make sure you take note of the games that are comming after the one you're about to play, as you don't want a key player or two to be missing away game vs. Chelsea or Man Utd.

Basically ... just live the game, don't click and play it. So far I've managed to make 2 long undefeated runs with my squad. One of 19 games undefeated and the second one is currently at 27 games undefeated. Got a couple of draws, but hey - that's life, draws happen.

There's no need to complain and moan if your team doesn't win every game. Just try harder ... or cooler.

Who are you playing as?

[mancity12]

You love that question.

[Hammer1000]

You love that question.

I just think that it applies, thats all?

[PhroX]

Who are you playing as?

Why should it have any real relevance? FM isn't significantly harder as one team than another. Maybe winning the league is, but being successful isn't. Staying up with Hull for example, is not really any tougher than winning the Premiership and CL with, say, United. In fact, I'd argue that success is easier with weaker clubs, simply because you can often afford to make more mistakes - it doesn't matter if your tactics are crap against, say, Chelsea, because you're probably going to lose against them anyway.

For the record, I'm playing as Southampton.

[mancity12]

Only joking mate .

The way I see it, as im City, I should be trying for titles and European football.

If I were Hull, id be trying to stay up and gain a little consistency to my performances.

With this in mind, id expect worse results managing Hull and id expect in-consistent performances, which would be my key aim to address. Not winning.

For City, im playing with creativity and attacking play. If I were Hull, id be closing every damn ball down and use a slow tempo (so there are less errors).

I agree its different in that aspect, but id be able to come up with a tactic to get where I want to achieve.

ALSO - My tactic is a very hard working one. One which I reckon would possibly suit lower teams more than top teams. I may give this a try with a crap team, but as im a City fan, I dont really want to.

[speedphlux]

I play with Blackburn Rovers ... Sorry if I forgot to mention it.

[Hammer1000]

Only joking mate .

The way I see it, as im City, I should be trying for titles and European football.

If I were Hull, id be trying to stay up and gain a little consistency to my performances.

With this in mind, id expect worse results managing Hull and id expect in-consistent performances, which would be my key aim to address. Not winning.

For City, im playing with creativity and attacking play. If I were Hull, id be closing every damn ball down and use a slow tempo (so there are less errors).

I agree its different in that aspect, but id be able to come up with a tactic to get where I want to achieve.

ALSO - My tactic is a very hard working one. One which I reckon would possibly suit lower teams more than top teams. I may give this a try with a crap team, but as im a City fan, I dont really want to.

I know your kidding mate!

I will try to explain myself further, a little later on when i have more time.

[maverick_nc1]

Why should it have any real relevance? FM isn't significantly harder as one team than another. Maybe winning the league is, but being successful isn't. Staying up with Hull for example, is not really any tougher than winning the Premiership and CL with, say, United. In fact, I'd argue that success is easier with weaker clubs, simply because you can often afford to make more mistakes - it doesn't matter if your tactics are crap against, say, Chelsea, because you're probably going to lose against them anyway.

For the record, I'm playing as Southampton.

Absolutely bang on the money. Its all relative.

In my opinion this game is HARD but all the better for it. Whoever said football was easy?!

[Kevchenko]

I think its key to remember that its a game. It will never be realisitc because every player doesn't think for himself on the game. Even with creative freedom, its only creative in the way it differs from the sliders and tick boxes you've selected.

In reality it would take a lot longer to tell your players to 'go 7 notches more defensive' and start 'counter attacking' and such than it does on the game, so the game will always be easier than real life. And surely thats a nice balance, people in real life lose their jobs over getting it wrong, the worst that can happen in this game is you get sacked and start a new game.

I wonder if a point will come when the game becomes too realistic to be worth playing? Cos if it becomes as hard as real life management, I'll stop playing and go and coach a gang of lads down the park.

[Reloaded]

The game seems fine to me apart from the small issues about the opposition scoring a lot of long range wonder goals, and the extreme amounts of woodwork action in matches. Yes, I'm struggling with Merthyr Tydfil, but I don't expect not to be at the moment.

[Welshace]

first off... thankyou SI.. brilliant game once again....

and moving on from that... its brilliant because SI's ethos has always.. and i mean ALWAYS been to make a game as realistic as possible..... ive seen people here quit their games after losing a few pre season games..... my god.. its a simulation.... its not realistic to expect to win every game 3-0 ...

and with this version especially, I love it when i can fight tooth and nail for a comeback and scrape it 2-1 or even 1-0.... its exciting and tactically challenging.... which I for one applaud SI for

[mancity12]

When you win and get three points, it means so much more this year than last because you know you earned them!

[googoo56]

"I am bored of all the 'I cant score' (teach your strikers to go round the GK in preferred moves for gods sake!) or 'I cannot create a wonder tactic' or 'The game cheats' posts."

Then stop reading them you clever boy :D

[fgu82]

I pity those who can spare time reading 50-page tactics sheets to achieve success in this game. You must have no life outside FM at all.

On the other hand, I can spare limited time to this game and I find it to be really difficult. And therefore I don't enjoy it as much as I used to enjoy the previous versions. I really think SI should not sacrifice playability over "realism", and by the way I believe strikers finishing the game with 5.5 ratings whereas the rest of the team getting a minimum 7.0 each is not realistic.

[swede]

The game is good, but if SI ignores constructive criticism of the GUI I think it will be their loss. It should be much less of a struggle getting to grips with how to communicate with your players. It is not very intuitive. The TT&F stuff should, in and ideal world focus more on real football tactics and not as much on various slider settings and pure numbers. That's where my frustration comes from at least. The game is great, and I don't mind loosing. I do dislike the complex layer of "communication tools" SI have put between me and my players. This could be changed for the better without in any way decreasing the difficulty level of the game.

[PhroX]

I pity those who can spare time reading 50-page tactics sheets to achieve success in this game. You must have no life outside FM at all

I read it at work

[mancity12]

I read it at work

Yeah, mine gets read whilst at work. Its called multi-tasking - At work, but reading non-work things.

[TwoShedsJackson]

You're going to get out of FM09 whatever you put into it. If you just download everyone elses tactics and try to plug your team into them, that won't work. Changing tactics every four matches cos you haven't won all four of the intervening games won't work. Taking over Man U or Real Madrid and immediatly expecting a world-class squad to obey your every instruction on the pitch won't work.

Read the TTF document or at least the mentality and match strategy sections, build a basic tactic, and THINK about what each setting does in the game versus a real game of football - then you may achieve success.

On the subject of success, it's entirely relative - I'm managing Gateshead in the BSN at present and it's been my most enjoyable game of FM in years - yes nearly all my players are crap and trying any fancy-dan instructions in the tactic is tantamount to just letting the AI team beat me 3-0 but it feels realistic and I'm finding it enjoyable and that's all that matters to me.

I'm not expecting to win every game and certainly haven't so far but I've won more than I should and more than I was expected to by the media or the board at the start of the season and that's good enough for me

[craigyboy4]

brilliant game! best yet probably, didnt like the missing back and side arrows at first but i can see why it has been removed! loving the game and im terrible at it lol i like a challange tho

[Jack Rudd]

Success at a game with a strategic element requires the reading of tactical guides to achieve success. Who'd have thought it?

(Yes, I'm bringing my experience as a chess player to bear on this.)

[paulowen]

The comments of the original poster irritate me more than anything else to be honest. The 'moaners' you call them. People have every right to moan however much they want seen as they paid there money for the game. Just because you love the game doesn't mean your right and other people daren't criticise the game.

You like to sit there for hour upon hour thinkin about tactics, tweaking this tweaking that? Good for you.

You like to sit there and read a 50 page document to be able to play a ****ing game? Once again good for you.

But don't come on here like no one else has the right to have other opinions, particularly when they're not exactly in the minority.