AC Milan advice..

[Paul Barton]

I've started a new save with Milan which has actually started fairly well. I've been fiddling around with a few different different variants of the 4231 and i'm currently rocking the below. Whilst i'm winning games and have had a solid start to the season, i'm not really controlling games like i feel i probably should be. I've not been scoring many goals. Most of my wins have been 1-0 which isn't a bad thing of course, but i feel this side is capable of more.

Looking to build from the back and generally looking to play a game that's controlled by keeping the ball - which we have been doing, but just need more penetration. Trying to get balls into the box from the wide right to the Forward, IF, BBM & AP (i've tried this role as a SS as well). RB underlapping to try and provide additional support for the DLP & Winger. I've varied the Role of Ibra - but decided that i wanted him to be more central rather than moving into the flanks. 

Appreciate any thoughts or tweaks!

[crusadertsar]

You are playing a man who literally has no more legs in a role that requires bags of pace. And you are channeling all your attack through him. So why do you think there is no penetration? I have nothing against Ibra but he will never be a poacher again. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by crusadertsar

[Paul Barton]

3 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

You are playing a man who literally has no more legs in a role that requires bags of pace. And you are channeling all your attack through him. So why do you think there is no penetration? I have nothing against Ibra but he will never be a poacher again. 

Poacher role doesn't really require legs unless I'm missing something? 

[NotSoSpecialOne]

1 hour ago, Paul Barton said:

Poacher role doesn't really require legs unless I'm missing something? 

Poachers are all about getting in behind the opposition defense. So you don't need just need good off the ball movement and anticipation to catch defenders unawares, you also need acceleration to properly utilise those situations.

Ibrahimovic only has 7 acceleration, so he will be too slow for top level defenders when played as a poacher.

What Ibrahimovic does have is the technical, mental and physical attributes to really excel as a target man. 

[crusadertsar]

2 hours ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

Poachers are all about getting in behind the opposition defense. So you don't need just need good off the ball movement and anticipation to catch defenders unawares, you also need acceleration to properly utilise those situations.

Ibrahimovic only has 7 acceleration, so he will be too slow for top level defenders when played as a poacher.

What Ibrahimovic does have is the technical, mental and physical attributes to really excel as a target man. 

Exactly. He might have excellent mentals. But his horrible acceleration is the real bottle neck. He won't be able to get behind the defences at all.

@Paul Barton when you select a role in the player profile, it will show you the key and recommended attributes. And you will see that acceleration is among the key ones. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by crusadertsar

[Experienced Defender]

Remove tight marking, to begin with. Neither it goes hand in hand with aggressive pressing (discussed/explained a number of times already) nor does it suit your style of play, including the 4231 as a formation.

I absolutely agree with others on Ibra. And not just because he is too slow for the poacher role, but also because the role itself does not fit in well with the roles around and behind him, especially the IF on attack. I personally would prefer playing Ibra as a DLF in a setup like yours. 

Also, do not insist on working the ball into the box, because the instruction tends to overcomplicate attacking play in the final third. 

In terms of central midfield, I personally would have the DLP on the left and on support duty, whereas MCR would be then switched to CM on defend duty.

[Paul Barton]

11 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Remove tight marking, to begin with. Neither it goes hand in hand with aggressive pressing (discussed/explained a number of times already) nor does it suit your style of play, including the 4231 as a formation.

I absolutely agree with others on Ibra. And not just because he is too slow for the poacher role, but also because the role itself does not fit in well with the roles around and behind him, especially the IF on attack. I personally would prefer playing Ibra as a DLF in a setup like yours. 

Also, do not insist on working the ball into the box, because the instruction tends to overcomplicate attacking play in the final third. 

In terms of central midfield, I personally would have the DLP on the left and on support duty, whereas MCR would be then switched to CM on defend duty.

I switched the two midfield roles as suggested, changed Ibra to a TM and removed tight marking and have certainly controlled the game far more. I do think that at times I am over complicating this game. 

Can I ask, what was the thought process with picking those two roles? Also, what do you not like about playing work ball into the box? Is there a situation where this TI would be usefull? 

[Freakiie]

10 hours ago, Paul Barton said:

I switched the two midfield roles as suggested, changed Ibra to a TM and removed tight marking and have certainly controlled the game far more. I do think that at times I am over complicating this game. 

Can I ask, what was the thought process with picking those two roles? Also, what do you not like about playing work ball into the box? Is there a situation where this TI would be usefull? 

If you mean the central midfield ones, your left flank is clearly the more aggressive one with the IF(A) over the W(Su) on the right, so that's where you want your defensive cover. As for the changes, the DLP(D), while being a holding player is still rather aggressive, whereas the CM(D) will mainly focus on defending so he's more suited for being the holding player in your midfield. As far as the CM(D)/DLP(S) combo, it's a solid defensive combination and in a 4-2-3-1 the 2 need to cover a lot of ground defensively (especially with the 2 full backs pushing up). You can run one holding player and one more aggressive role for more attacking prowess, but at the same time that of course also comes with a defensive risk (And ED isn't called Defender for nothing ).

As for work ball into the box, it alters player behaviour in multiple ways and generally just slows down play a lot as a result of it, actually making it harder to create good chances. If you have a solid tactical set up your players will already reliably try to work the ball even without the TI anyway and if your opposition sits really deep the occasional long shot can be a more than welcome addition to your arsenal. Basically, if you have quality players, nothing wrong with just letting them mostly do their own thing. With the improvements in the ME this version, I'm honestly not sure when I'd ever run WBIB. Perhaps only at very aggressive mentalities/high tempo where players will be eager to shoot on sight to tone them down a bit? If the attacking part of your tactic is solid it's just not a TI you should need.

[Experienced Defender]

10 hours ago, Paul Barton said:

Can I ask, what was the thought process with picking those two roles?

Assuming you are referring to the DLP support and CM defend, the reason is twofold:

1. having both CMs in holding roles allows the attack-minded fullbacks to get forward and support attacks more safely. And given that the formation is already top-heavy, it is not necessary to have a midfield runner at all costs;

2. Putting the DLP behind the attacking IF (AML) and giving him a more progressive duty (support instead of defend) means more opportunities for him to play defense-splitting through balls 

11 hours ago, Paul Barton said:

Also, what do you not like about playing work ball into the box? Is there a situation where this TI would be usefull? 

Well, I already explained that - potential overcomplication of attacking play. I did not say that you should never use the WBiB (or any other instruction). I just said that you should not insist on it as a regular instruction. It can make sense as an occasional in-match tweak if you notice that your players are attempting too many long shots or otherwise wasting possession, but in order for any instruction to work - it needs to be in harmony with your setup of roles and duties. Otherwise, not just WBiB but any instruction will prove rather ineffective.