Tactic Question - Playing against Ultra Defensive Teams

[AxeTacular]

Hi all,

 

Playing a Real Madrid save. In the second season my team is absurd with a front four of Mbappe, Hazard, Benzema and Haaland. First season I went undefeated in the league, losing only 1 game all season a first leg against Bayern and I won every single competition I was in.

 

Second season is going much the same but all teams barring the elite in the champions league and Barca are now just playing ultra defensive, 10 men behind the call counter attacking garbage football. Unless I get an early goal through luck or a set piece every match is becoming a grinding war of attrition and whilst I again haven't lost two thirds of the way through the season it is much, much closer every game and drawing quite a few.

 

So the tactics question... what are some good tactics to use against teams who just defend deep, with 10 men and do nothing other than counter attack and are happy for me to just send waves of attacks against them?

 

Thanks!

[CARRERA]

11 minutes ago, AxeTacular said:

what are some good tactics to use against teams who just defend deep, with 10 men and do nothing other than counter attack

low tempo, creative freedom, create movement. proberbly share your tactic so people can have a look at it

[AxeTacular]

[Zemahh]

17 minutes ago, AxeTacular said:

So the tactics question... what are some good tactics to use against teams who just defend deep, with 10 men and do nothing other than counter attack and are happy for me to just send waves of attacks against them?

Potentially problematic instructions:

• Extremely High Tempo (it makes no sense to rush decisions against deep defences, you want to give your players time to get up in support and work hard for potential openings)
• Pass Into Space (while it doesn't necessarily instruct players to only look for space behind opposition, which is unlikely to be there against deep defences anyway, it could still be counter-productive to patient build up and result in needless losses of possession)
• Much Higher Line Of Engagement (combined w/ 4-2-3-1, it creates an extremely high block, which can pin already defensive opposition even further back, restricting your players any space whatsoever to attack into)

Personally, I'd also trim the rest of your instructions down to bare minimum and only keep the ones absolutely essential for your playing style, but these are the ones I think could be the most problematic when it comes to breaking down stacked defences.

You didn't post the rest of your tactic, but there could also be a problem with your choice of roles and duties. Generally speaking, you want to avoid overly aggressive setups (e.g. multiple Attack duties combined w/ Attacking mentality) and create some type of movement that drags opposition around.

A few examples:

Hope that helps.

[Experienced Defender]

39 minutes ago, AxeTacular said:

You failed to show the roles and duties, which is the most important and critical part of any tactic. 

Anyway, you are using a needlessly high number of team instructions, which is totally unnecessary and makes the tactic a complete mess.

Question: is this a tactic you personally created or a downloaded plug'n'play tactic? 

[AxeTacular]

5 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

You failed to show the roles and duties, which is the most important and critical part of any tactic. 

Anyway, you are using a needlessly high number of team instructions, which is totally unnecessary and makes the tactic a complete mess.

Question: is this a tactic you personally created or a downloaded plug'n'play tactic? 

It's a tactic I created,  it's been a long time since I've created tactics (had a few FM incarnations off) so it may be overly complicated but I'm not sure, it is producing results though.

 

R&D below.

 

[Experienced Defender]

3 minutes ago, AxeTacular said:

It's a tactic I created,  it's been a long time since I've created tactics (had a few FM incarnations off) so it may be overly complicated but I'm not sure, it is producing results though.

 

R&D below

The tactic is completely unbalanced and definitely looks like one of the famous plug'n'play/exploit tactics. But if it's producing results, then just stick with it and enjoy. No need to change something that works (at least as long as it does).

P.S: I am reluctant to offer any advice, simply because I would change virtually everything. Which certainly is not what you want, I guess.

[AxeTacular]

3 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

The tactic is completely unbalanced and definitely looks like one of the famous plug'n'play/exploit tactics. But if it's producing results, then just stick with it and enjoy. No need to change something that works (at least as long as it does).

P.S: I am reluctant to offer any advice, simply because I would change virtually everything. Which certainly is not what you want, I guess.

Yeah I'm quite happy with what I've created It's just tweaks for the ultra defensive teams.

 

Out of interest, what's an exploit tactic?

 

The tip from above about slowing down the tempo seems to have helped. Played two games and slowed tempo down after not getting initial break through and picked the teams apart after the change.

[Experienced Defender]

1 minute ago, AxeTacular said:

Out of interest, what's an exploit tactic?

A tactic that is very or even extremely successful in FM due to being designed in such a way as to exploit the match engine (i.e. its inherent weaknesses and limitations), as opposed to being sensibly and logically designed. 

In other words, an exploit tactic is a tactic that makes no sense at all from the perspective of real-life football logic, but nevertheless works great in FM.

[Zemahh]

8 hours ago, AxeTacular said:

R&D below.

I can see why you would struggle against deep defences. In addition to my comment above about your instructions, you've pretty much maxed out your aggression in terms of roles and duties as well. There's no defensive stability whatsoever either and while that might work against La Liga minnows, I can see you getting exposed on the counter against better teams.

Let's look at your mentality structure:

V. Attacking

V. Attacking V. Attacking V. Attacking

Positive Positive

Attacking Cautious Balanced Attacking

You've got 4 forwards pretty much only focused on scoring goals, both wing backs bombing forward constantly and both central midfielders acting as half-wingers. There's no one staying back to stifle counters or recycle possession, which is why either dribbling or shooting from all kinds of angles is the only option left to your players once they run into a defensive wall.

To break down stubborn defences, you need to be more methodical. With such over the top aggressive approach you're not only playing straight into their hands, but also allowing them to hit you on the counter easily. If you were to post some of your xG charts, I can totally see you having 30+ shots and a high accumulated xG, but very few individual high-quality chances.

Possible changes:

AF

IWsu    AMat    Wsu

DLPde BWMsu

WBsu CDde BPDde FBsu

SKde

• Positive
• Play Out Of Defence
• Slightly Lower Tempo
• Counter-Press
• Higher Defensive Line

That makes your mentality structure as follows:

V. Attacking

Positive V. Attacking Positive

Cautious Positive

Positive Cautious Cautious Positive

Alternatively, if you're looking to use IF and SS, I'd change striker to Support duty, but Haaland is probably best used as AF.

[AxeTacular]

On 25/05/2021 at 08:53, Zemahh said:

I can see why you would struggle against deep defences. In addition to my comment above about your instructions, you've pretty much maxed out your aggression in terms of roles and duties as well. There's no defensive stability whatsoever either and while that might work against La Liga minnows, I can see you getting exposed on the counter against better teams.

Let's look at your mentality structure:

V. Attacking

V. Attacking V. Attacking V. Attacking

Positive Positive

Attacking Cautious Balanced Attacking

You've got 4 forwards pretty much only focused on scoring goals, both wing backs bombing forward constantly and both central midfielders acting as half-wingers. There's no one staying back to stifle counters or recycle possession, which is why either dribbling or shooting from all kinds of angles is the only option left to your players once they run into a defensive wall.

To break down stubborn defences, you need to be more methodical. With such over the top aggressive approach you're not only playing straight into their hands, but also allowing them to hit you on the counter easily. If you were to post some of your xG charts, I can totally see you having 30+ shots and a high accumulated xG, but very few individual high-quality chances.

Possible changes:

AF

IWsu    AMat    Wsu

DLPde BWMsu

WBsu CDde BPDde FBsu

SKde

• Positive
• Play Out Of Defence
• Slightly Lower Tempo
• Counter-Press
• Higher Defensive Line

That makes your mentality structure as follows:

V. Attacking

Positive V. Attacking Positive

Cautious Positive

Positive Cautious Cautious Positive

Alternatively, if you're looking to use IF and SS, I'd change striker to Support duty, but Haaland is probably best used as AF.

Thanks, that's great!

 

I tinkered with slowing down my tempo which helped against the really stubborn defences but will give the above a look.

 

Ended up losing my second champions league final on penalties and was second best all match so thinking of a tactics tinker off season as it is!

[phnompenhandy]

One small detail: Overlap. It involves the player stopping and waiting for someone to show for a pass. It gives the opposition time to regroup. Early crosses would have the opposite effect - cross before the defence is properly set up.