Improving Man Utd's Attack: A Tactical Case Study

[The #9.5]

The main criticism towards Solskjaer, especially in the past 2 seasons, has been that his Man Utd lacks the attacking sophistication/patterns of play, to deal with those defensive, sitting deep/low-block teams his team is about to face at least half the time. Those who follow the EPL and/or Man Utd closely will know that his team is excellent on the break and ripping apart teams who are willing to press forward and commit players in attack. That's why there's a great disparity of the results he had achieved so far in his Man Utd career - some great wins v big teams and some poor draws/defeats against smaller teams.

I'm neither a Man Utd or a Solskjaer fan. But I love football and tactical brainstorming. So lately I've been thinking how could Man Utd be improved tactically in games v defensive teams, what type of attacking patterns of play can be developed to make them more sophisticated and thus harder to defend against. The only caveat - and to be perfectly fair to Solskjaer - is that the current Man Utd squad should be used. Meaning answers like 'buy this and that player' aren't acceptable.

I think this could prove to be an excellent tactical case study which a group discussion could lead to some excellent FM-related learning curve.  

Let's start with a quick overview of the current Man Utd squad (in FM21) and some of their more important players. 

 

Centre-backs and 'Keepers

Maguire is quite good BPD who can either bring the ball upfield himself or pass it with some long/diagonal passes. Ideally he would've been more mobile  to make him a bit more press-resistant and his actual ball-playing skills (vision, flair, passing and technique) could've been more than the 12-13 he has but he is still competent enough (more so as his anticipation, composure and decisions are all 15-16). Lindelof is similar type of player, only a bit more mobile.

In short - the team has 2 CBs who can be trusted to play out from the back and start the initial/early build-up phase. 

Neither of the two GKs are proper ball-playing ones but if the structure is set up to allow them enough passing angles, they could still be useful enough with simple short passes to the CBs and/or a dropping midfielder.

 

Full-backs

On the right AWB is excellent defender 1v1 (mobility, bravery, tackling are all great) but his poor anticipation, concentration, position and marking mean he is prone to basic errors and defensive lapses. In addition he can't be a weapon in attack as all his attacking-related attributes are below average. 

Williams is a bit better in attack - only because his off the ball movement is good - but several things are holding him back to be really effective (like vision, anticipation, composure, decisions). In short the RB area can't provide a proper overlapping FB who can participate in any offensive moves. 

The LB area in contrast is much better. Telles is excellent attacking FB (be it in terms of running and crossing or taking part in a more sophisticated passing moves). He is adequate enough defending 1v1 but his low positioning means he will be a liability if he is part of a low-block.

Shaw is an all-rounder but he has two key weaknesses - vision and flair. Meaning he is sort of a one-trick pony and has a tunnel-vision. Technically speaking he is adequate enough meaning he can be trusted enough to deliver a good ball/pass in attack whenever he sees the opening. If he is pushed into attack, his simple approach (due to low vision and flair) means he will simply run down the line and cross in hope a teammate will connect.

But he is very good defensively, so provides a nice contrast to Telles on that front and the two of them can be rotated depending on approach. So the LB area is sort of sorted. 

DM/CM options

McTominay is excellent ball-winner and is kind of press-resistant due to his physicality. But in terms of ball-playing skills, he is average and can't really be trusted (low composure, decisions and vision). Fred is similar, only less physical but a bit more cultured (still, he can't be used as the prime deep recycler/passer). Matic is the most composed and cultured option but two he is very immobile (so can be quickly closed down) and his very low flair means he isn't a progressive passer (he will look only for the simple back/sideway pass all the time, further underlined by his PPM. 

DM/CM zone is a clear weak area when it comes to participating in any more technical/attacking style that counts on proper build-up play through the zones. 

CM/AM

Pogba and Fernandes are both excellent in all passing/attacking-related skills, but neither is great defensively. As we all know by now, if you play Pogba deeper to count on his playmaking skills, you need to heavily compensate for his massive defensive shortcomings. 

EDIT: Just realised I forgot about Van de Beek. Skills-wise he is some sort of a false 10 who is best at driving forward from deep in space. And not someone who can create for others. He is also relatively immobile so needs to start his runs from higher up to be an active part of the attacking moves. Which is why he was used at the #10 in Ajax. 

 

Wide/central attackers

There are several options but some of them are similar and there are clear lack of a missing type of player. 

To start with the two clear specialist. James is a proper winger who has pace but his low anticipation, composure, decisions and vision means he can't be trusted as a regular provider. He will be very hit and miss, at best. Then there's Mata - excellent playmaker and creator of chances in the final 3rd but with one clear weakness. He is now very immobile, meaning he could be quickly pressed and suffocated. Thus he can't really be counted on anything other than a very static creator role who needs both space and time to create for others (and neither will be given to him so easily at the level Man Utd are expected to compete). 

Then there is the Martial, Rashford, Greenwood trio. All of them can play wide and central but the issue is all of them can play very similar roles. All of them are mobile, technical players who can beat a mean and can finish. But neither is really a creator and their overall skills means they're mostly consumers (ie they can't really participate in any sophisticated passing moves). They're all excellent options on the break though, as we all know. 

Then there's Cavani. A proper #9 who if given half a chance will most likely score than miss, let alone being put in through on goal. The trouble is that with his age, he got even less mobile, so is even more dependant on someone creating chances for him. He is another who can't be a creator/provider though. 

 

Conclusion

Based on the above quick profiling of the current squad, it's clear the team lacks crucial type of players to play a more complex attacking style that aims to use possession and positional play to open up defences and create chances. The biggest one is that there are no attackers able to drop deep and participate in quick pass&move combination; who can create space and then exploit it via good through balls to onrushing teammates. All wide and central attackers are consumers who need chances to be created for them or at least space in behind to use their pace and dribbling to create for themselves. 

 

So,  with all this in mind, what formations and tactics can be used to make the current Man Utd squad a bit more complex with their attacking patterns and not be so dependent on the counter-attack and/or having space in behind to exploit? 

Edited May 30, 2021 by The #9.5

[The #9.5]

Any tactics in a 4-2-3-1 formation will lead basically to what Solskjaer has achieved so far. You can play Pogba deeper to help with the ball progression and you can count on Fernandes creating as the #10. But with the wide and central attackers being consumers, there will be little positional interchange and creation of space thanks to players dropping deep/pulling wide. All 4 attackers are the type of players who look to run in behind or dribble their way forward.

In short, this is very structured approach with little creativity in terms of flexible positional play. More so when bar Telles, there's no support coming from FB area. This will mean the team will be very dependent on having space in behind. Any defensive team who minimises space in their defensive 3rd will prove a big trouble as there's simply no movement to open up space for Pogba and Fernandes to aim their passes. 

4-3-3 is even less of a viable option as in this formation it's even more important the FW to create space for others to move into. You can play Pogba and Fernandes as free 8s but with no-one to stretch the play (bar James, and he is not very good at it bar simply running down the line) and no-one to drop deep from FW, it'll be another half-backed approach.

A diamond formation might provide a bit more flexibility as with both FWs pulling wide (something all 4 options are good at, especially the more mobile players), Fernandes can push forward from the #10. In addition, Pogba can be used to drift wide from LCM. But with no-one to stretch play from RB any half-decent opponent who can defend deep and narrow will render this only a slightly more versatile approach useless too.

What about a back 3 formation? 3-4-1-2 will prove similar to the diamond in that the front pair could split wide with Fernandes pushing forward from #10. But there's no RWB option to provide width and you will either have Pogba push forward too and leave the team overly dependent on long passes from CB area as there'll be no progressive passer from CM. Or if you keep Pogba deeper to dictate play and ping passes around, the team will be even less flexible going forward and with less bodies to actually move forward and combine to create. 

 

So, any ideas on possible tactics with the current Man Utd squad? Or the verdict is that with the current options, Solskjaer has actually done as best as possible from a strictly tactical point of view? 

 

[denen123]

1 hour ago, The #9.5 said:

The main criticism towards Solskjaer, especially in the past 2 seasons, has been that his Man Utd lacks the attacking sophistication/patterns of play, to deal with those defensive, sitting deep/low-block teams his team is about to face at least half the time. Those who follow the EPL and/or Man Utd closely will know that his team is excellent on the break and ripping apart teams who are willing to press forward and commit players in attack. That's why there's a great disparity of the results he had achieved so far in his Man Utd career - some great wins v big teams and some poor draws/defeats against smaller teams.

I'm neither a Man Utd or a Solskjaer fan. But I love football and tactical brainstorming. So lately I've been thinking how could Man Utd be improved tactically in games v defensive teams, what type of attacking patterns of play can be developed to make them more sophisticated and thus harder to defend against. The only caveat - and to be perfectly fair to Solskjaer - is that the current Man Utd squad should be used. Meaning answers like 'buy this and that player' aren't acceptable.

I think this could prove to be an excellent tactical case study which a group discussion could lead to some excellent FM-related learning curve.  

Let's start with a quick overview of the current Man Utd squad (in FM21) and some of their more important players. 

 

Centre-backs and 'Keepers

Maguire is quite good BPD who can either bring the ball upfield himself or pass it with some long/diagonal passes. Ideally he would've been more mobile  to make him a bit more press-resistant and his actual ball-playing skills (vision, flair, passing and technique) could've been more than the 12-13 he has but he is still competent enough (more so as his anticipation, composure and decisions are all 15-16). Lindelof is similar type of player, only a bit more mobile.

In short - the team has 2 CBs who can be trusted to play out from the back and start the initial/early build-up phase. 

Neither of the two GKs are proper ball-playing ones but if the structure is set up to allow them enough passing angles, they could still be useful enough with simple short passes to the CBs and/or a dropping midfielder.

 

Full-backs

On the right AWB is excellent defender 1v1 (mobility, bravery, tackling are all great) but his poor anticipation, concentration, position and marking mean he is prone to basic errors and defensive lapses. In addition he can't be a weapon in attack as all his attacking-related attributes are below average. 

Williams is a bit better in attack - only because his off the ball movement is good - but several things are holding him back to be really effective (like vision, anticipation, composure, decisions). In short the RB area can't provide a proper overlapping FB who can participate in any offensive moves. 

The LB area in contrast is much better. Telles is excellent attacking FB (be it in terms of running and crossing or taking part in a more sophisticated passing moves). He is adequate enough defending 1v1 but his low positioning means he will be a liability if he is part of a low-block.

Shaw is an all-rounder but he has two key weaknesses - vision and flair. Meaning he is sort of a one-trick pony and has a tunnel-vision. Technically speaking he is adequate enough meaning he can be trusted enough to deliver a good ball/pass in attack whenever he sees the opening. If he is pushed into attack, his simple approach (due to low vision and flair) means he will simply run down the line and cross in hope a teammate will connect.

But he is very good defensively, so provides a nice contrast to Telles on that front and the two of them can be rotated depending on approach. So the LB area is sort of sorted. 

DM/CM options

McTominay is excellent ball-winner and is kind of press-resistant due to his physicality. But in terms of ball-playing skills, he is average and can't really be trusted (low composure, decisions and vision). Fred is similar, only less physical but a bit more cultured (still, he can't be used as the prime deep recycler/passer). Matic is the most composed and cultured option but two he is very immobile (so can be quickly closed down) and his very low flair means he isn't a progressive passer (he will look only for the simple back/sideway pass all the time, further underlined by his PPM. 

DM/CM zone is a clear weak area when it comes to participating in any more technical/attacking style that counts on proper build-up play through the zones. 

CM/AM

Pogba and Fernandes are both excellent in all passing/attacking-related skills, but neither is great defensively. As we all know by now, if you play Pogba deeper to count on his playmaking skills, you need to heavily compensate for his massive defensive shortcomings. 

EDIT: Just realised I forgot about Van de Beek. Skills-wise he is some sort of a false 10 who is best at driving forward from deep in space. And not someone who can create for others. He is also relatively immobile so needs to start his runs from higher up to be an active part of the attacking moves. Which is why he was used at the #10 in Ajax. 

 

Wide/central attackers

There are several options but some of them are similar and there are clear lack of a missing type of player. 

To start with the two clear specialist. James is a proper winger who has pace but his low anticipation, composure, decisions and vision means he can't be trusted as a regular provider. He will be very hit and miss, at best. Then there's Mata - excellent playmaker and creator of chances in the final 3rd but with one clear weakness. He is now very immobile, meaning he could be quickly pressed and suffocated. Thus he can't really be counted on anything other than a very static creator role who needs both space and time to create for others (and neither will be given to him so easily at the level Man Utd are expected to compete). 

Then there is the Martial, Rashford, Greenwood trio. All of them can play wide and central but the issue is all of them can play very similar roles. All of them are mobile, technical players who can beat a mean and can finish. But neither is really a creator and their overall skills means they're mostly consumers (ie they can't really participate in any sophisticated passing moves). They're all excellent options on the break though, as we all know. 

Then there's Cavani. A proper #9 who if given half a chance will most likely score than miss, let alone being put in through on goal. The trouble is that with his age, he got even less mobile, so is even more dependant on someone creating chances for him. He is another who can't be a creator/provider though. 

 

Conclusion

Based on the above quick profiling of the current squad, it's clear the team lacks crucial type of players to play a more complex attacking style that aims to use possession and positional play to open up defences and create chances. The biggest one is that there are no attackers able to drop deep and participate in quick pass&move combination; who can create space and then exploit it via good through balls to onrushing teammates. All wide and central attackers are consumers who need chances to be created for them or at least space in behind to use their pace and dribbling to create for themselves. 

 

So,  with all this in mind, what formations and tactics can be used to make the current Man Utd squad a bit more complex with their attacking patterns and not be so dependent on the counter-attack and/or having space in behind to exploit? 

Martial is technically gifted enough to come deep and start plays. Maybe, not the most clinical or consistent, but him and Greenwood are technically gifted enough to do it. They do it often.

A good example is Martial's performance against Man City. Dropped deep and caused havoc there. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by denen123

[zyfon5]

35 minutes ago, The #9.5 said:

Any tactics in a 4-2-3-1 formation will lead basically to what Solskjaer has achieved so far. You can play Pogba deeper to help with the ball progression and you can count on Fernandes creating as the #10. But with the wide and central attackers being consumers, there will be little positional interchange and creation of space thanks to players dropping deep/pulling wide. All 4 attackers are the type of players who look to run in behind or dribble their way forward.

In short, this is very structured approach with little creativity in terms of flexible positional play. More so when bar Telles, there's no support coming from FB area. This will mean the team will be very dependent on having space in behind. Any defensive team who minimises space in their defensive 3rd will prove a big trouble as there's simply no movement to open up space for Pogba and Fernandes to aim their passes. 

4-3-3 is even less of a viable option as in this formation it's even more important the FW to create space for others to move into. You can play Pogba and Fernandes as free 8s but with no-one to stretch the play (bar James, and he is not very good at it bar simply running down the line) and no-one to drop deep from FW, it'll be another half-backed approach.

A diamond formation might provide a bit more flexibility as with both FWs pulling wide (something all 4 options are good at, especially the more mobile players), Fernandes can push forward from the #10. In addition, Pogba can be used to drift wide from LCM. But with no-one to stretch play from RB any half-decent opponent who can defend deep and narrow will render this only a slightly more versatile approach useless too.

What about a back 3 formation? 3-4-1-2 will prove similar to the diamond in that the front pair could split wide with Fernandes pushing forward from #10. But there's no RWB option to provide width and you will either have Pogba push forward too and leave the team overly dependent on long passes from CB area as there'll be no progressive passer from CM. Or if you keep Pogba deeper to dictate play and ping passes around, the team will be even less flexible going forward and with less bodies to actually move forward and combine to create. 

 

So, any ideas on possible tactics with the current Man Utd squad? Or the verdict is that with the current options, Solskjaer has actually done as best as possible from a strictly tactical point of view? 

 

If the only problem is the lack of creativity in the final third to break down deep blocks, I will play a 4321 which lines up like this

Cavani

Fernandes-Mata

Pogba-mctominay-Fred 

Telles-lindelof-maguire-brandon Williams

2 creative midfielders that sits behind a no 9 and instruct the two wingbacks to attack high up the pitch to stretch the defensive line. Both pogba and Fred can carry the ball from deep and act as auxiliary wingers if needed making runs from deep or taking long shots when needed. 

 

 

 

[NotSoSpecialOne]

With the current squad, I like me a narrow diamond formation. Something like this for a starting 11:

                                  PF(Su): Cavani - AF(A): Rashford/Greenwood

                                                   AM(A): Fernandes

                                     RPM(Su): Pogba - CM(Su): van de Beek

                                                    DM(De) - Fred/McTominay

         FB(At): Shaw - CD(De): Lindelof - BPD: Maguire - WB(Au): Wan-Bissaka

                                            GK(De): De Gea (unless Penalties )

PF, AM and WB would have some tailored PIs most likely.

[The #9.5]

1 hour ago, denen123 said:

Martial is technically gifted enough to come deep and start plays. Maybe, not the most clinical or consistent, but him and Greenwood are technically gifted enough to do it. They do it often.

A good example is Martial's performance against Man City. Dropped deep and caused havoc there. 

That's interesting idea. Initially I thought about Martial dropping deep from FW but looking at his profile, it's his low vision (10) that put me off. However, on a 2nd thought, that's because he would be a poor creator, doesn't mean we can't use his off the ball movement. I think his relatively good anticipation and off the ball (both 14), plus great mobility and most importantly good team work (15, he has highest on this front compared to the other 3 players), means if used in a CF/s role, we can expect him to contribute reasonably well in terms of space creation. The high teamwork stat should mean he interprets his movement to - more often than not - be in sync with his teammates and offer complimentary movement to them. 

Thinking along these lines, then Rashford as IF/a off the left should be able to exploit any space created by Martial. This will leave Fernandes as AM/s (as if he is on attack duty too, he would be quick to push forward and will leave him disconnected to the midfield, something we should look to avoid especially against deep defences). Adding roam from position and risky passes to Fernandes should mean he has that movement freedom to roam around too and create at any moment he sees fit (and his attributes on that front are good, though his relatively low anticipation (13) and decisions (12) might mean he will sometimes fail to exploit any given chance). 

With the LW coming high and narrow and Fernandes roaming around the #10 spot, the RW should ideally be someone who will provide width, more so with AWB being nothing more than a simple FB/s given his attacking shortcoming. Or in other words we'll have to hope James in a W/s role will force the opposition to move wide and cover him, thus leaving gaps elsewhere as on his own, James will be very hit and miss in terms of providing for others. 

Given the we expect the opposition to sit deep and defend, I think we can get away with counting on the CBs alone as the only passers from deep. Not pressed should mean they could easily pass into the midfield zone, or in Maguire's case - see him bring the ball into that area himself. This in turn mean we can use Pogba in a more involved role and not a holding/passive role as DLP/s. So I think a B2B/RPM role at RCM (with added risky passes) should be fine and will exploit the gaps created by James' keeping his width on the right. 

With Fred as CM/d at LCM, there should be enough cover for both Pogba and Telles coming forward from LB; more so as AWB will be in most cases behind the ball at RB too. 

 

 

 

I may be wrong but I'm quite sure this is something Solskjaer has never tested in reality. On theory it should work reasonably well. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by The #9.5

[The #9.5]

2 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

If the only problem is the lack of creativity in the final third to break down deep blocks, I will play a 4321 which lines up like this

Cavani

Fernandes-Mata

Pogba-mctominay-Fred 

Telles-lindelof-maguire-brandon Williams

2 creative midfielders that sits behind a no 9 and instruct the two wingbacks to attack high up the pitch to stretch the defensive line. Both pogba and Fred can carry the ball from deep and act as auxiliary wingers if needed making runs from deep or taking long shots when needed. 

 

 

 

I think this falls into the trap of being too much 'structured', or layered for wanting a better term. What I mean is that if Cavani is with attack duty, it'll be him spearheading the team. If both AMs are also simple creative roles, I think this will render the team too depending on only one route - creating for Cavani. So if there's no space for Cavani to find space to receive and finish and/or if the creators are blocked, I think we'll be in trouble with this approach. 

If the idea is for Pogba to move high and wider, he will end up in similar space to Telles. This will lead to potential overload but also potential duplication, which I personally want to avoid. Also, Fred and Williams on the right won't be much of a trouble in the final 3rd.

Then there's the issue of Mata being a simple static creative force and anyone who sticks tight on him will easily take him out of the game (as per Mata's weakness discussed earlier). 

Such a 4-3-2-1 formation would be better if the FW is someone who drops deep, one of the AMs is offering the reverse movement and the other is pulling wide. This will create 3-type of movement which will be much harder to contain. Problem is Man Utd doesn't have another AM who can pull wide (if we put Fernandes in the AM role to get into the box). In addition they don't have either a 2nd Mezzala type to compensate for lack of attacking RB (and they don't have an attacking RB to compensate for the lack of 2nd Mezzala). 

Telles coming forward from LB and Pogba pulling high and wide from RCM would've worked if there was another AM who could be used next to Fernandes which isn't Mata. 

A potential work around is to replace the AM which will be tasked to pull wide with a FW who would pull wide. But if we use Martial as the FW to drop deep (CF/s role for example), this leaves Greenwod and Rashford as the option to pull wide. But neither is creative enough and suit only sort of a PF/a or AF/a roles. Rashford is a bit more physical and a fraction more creative, so could be tasked with DLF/a role. 

But the risk will remain that against deep defences that FW could easily get lost and isolated. This might not be a problem if we use them solely as decoy players and don't expect much of them apart from simply drifting wide to disorganise the opponent's defence and pounce on any half-chance that might get their way. 

 

 

I'm fairly confident this is something Solskjaer hasn't used in reality too. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by The #9.5

[Manutd1999]

Quote

 

I may be wrong but I'm quite sure this is something Solskjaer has never tested in reality. On theory it should work reasonably well. 

I think this is pretty close to how Solskjaer wants to play, he just doesn't have the players for it at the moment. 

James has always looked more comfortable cutting inside from the left compared to a more traditional "winger" role on the right. In any case, his end product is nowhere near consistent enough. This is where Sancho could make a huge difference and offer a more creative threat to compliment Rashord and Greenwood/Cavani/Martial. 

In midfield, Fred and McTominay are somewhat strange players. Both have good work rate and press well, but are not great tacklers (Fred especially commits so many cheap fouls). Both are happier playing short passes, but they also give the ball away far too often. Essentially, they are both a sort of low-budget Kante, probably best suited to a BWM type role but not really fitting together as a duo. 

 

With a 4-2-3-1, I think you have two options for the midfield. Either:

1) Play a deep-lying playmaker, who is positionally disciplined but plays progressive passes into Bruno (i.e. the 'Carrick' role), alongside a more mobile, ball-winning midfielder (Fred/McTominay). Essentially the Jorginho-Kante approach that Tuchel uses. The problem is, Man Utd don't have a playmaker. Maybe James Garner could fit into this role next season?

2) Alternatively, you could play a pure 'destroyer' alongside a more mobile playmaker (roaming playmaker in FM). On paper this suits United better, with Matic alongside either Pogba or Van De Beek. The problem is, I don't think Ole trusts the centre-backs enough to have just one holding midfielder, especially in transition when facing pacy opponents.

If you put Sancho, Ndidi and a fast centre-back into that team in place of James, Fred and Lindelof, it would start to look a lot better

Edited May 30, 2021 by Manutd1999

[zyfon5]

8 hours ago, The #9.5 said:

I think this falls into the trap of being too much 'structured', or layered for wanting a better term. What I mean is that if Cavani is with attack duty, it'll be him spearheading the team. If both AMs are also simple creative roles, I think this will render the team too depending on only one route - creating for Cavani. So if there's no space for Cavani to find space to receive and finish and/or if the creators are blocked, I think we'll be in trouble with this approach. 

If the idea is for Pogba to move high and wider, he will end up in similar space to Telles. This will lead to potential overload but also potential duplication, which I personally want to avoid. Also, Fred and Williams on the right won't be much of a trouble in the final 3rd.

Then there's the issue of Mata being a simple static creative force and anyone who sticks tight on him will easily take him out of the game (as per Mata's weakness discussed earlier). 

Such a 4-3-2-1 formation would be better if the FW is someone who drops deep, one of the AMs is offering the reverse movement and the other is pulling wide. This will create 3-type of movement which will be much harder to contain. Problem is Man Utd doesn't have another AM who can pull wide (if we put Fernandes in the AM role to get into the box). In addition they don't have either a 2nd Mezzala type to compensate for lack of attacking RB (and they don't have an attacking RB to compensate for the lack of 2nd Mezzala). 

Telles coming forward from LB and Pogba pulling high and wide from RCM would've worked if there was another AM who could be used next to Fernandes which isn't Mata. 

A potential work around is to replace the AM which will be tasked to pull wide with a FW who would pull wide. But if we use Martial as the FW to drop deep (CF/s role for example), this leaves Greenwod and Rashford as the option to pull wide. But neither is creative enough and suit only sort of a PF/a or AF/a roles. Rashford is a bit more physical and a fraction more creative, so could be tasked with DLF/a role. 

But the risk will remain that against deep defences that FW could easily get lost and isolated. This might not be a problem if we use them solely as decoy players and don't expect much of them apart from simply drifting wide to disorganise the opponent's defence and pounce on any half-chance that might get their way. 

 

 

I'm fairly confident this is something Solskjaer hasn't used in reality too. 

I will explain my reasoning for this. In my opinion in modern football to break down tough defences, you will need penetrating runs from deep. Pogba and Fred can provide these runs and are capable to make these runs. Playing them in a 4321 will allow them to make these runs without worrying about the defensive structure of the team. They are like free roaming midfielders in a sense popping up at the wings if needed and moving into midfield if they are not needed. The width will be mainly provided by the two attacking wingbacks so there will be no issue of congesting the wings. And if opposing players decided to tightly mark Mata it is even better as it frees up more space for other players to do the damage. And it is very difficult to assign players to tightly mark him due to the formation which will allow the team to create overloads depending on which player the opposing team assigns to tightly mark Mata. Cavani is expected to drop deep occasionally to pull defenders out for midfielders to attack the space.

Added note: My suggestion here is largely based on Ancelotti tactics from Chelsea 2010 team that is one of the best attacking teams in premier league in the past decade. So it is definitely something tried and tested before. The reason why you do not see teams lining up like this nowadays is because teams have gotten better in transitions over the years and a formation like this can be punished due to its defensive weakness.

Edited May 30, 2021 by zyfon5

[Robson 07]

I'm sorry @zyfon5but no, just no.   And no, again.

[NotSoSpecialOne]

Any tactic that employs Martial up front instead of Cavani is doomed to failure (or at the very least, not the right the choice). Both in terms of FM (which overrates him) and in real life.

Leaving aside my feelings re: reality and focusing solely on FM:

The primary advantage of Martial is his pace and technical ability and that he can also sort of function as a player that drops in and links up. But we're talking about how to approach stubborn low block teams and what this means is a lot of the advantage Martial has over Cavani is going to be off the table. There's not going to be much to exploit for fast transitions. Like Cavani, he's also sorely lacking in vision so I wouldn't expect much impact in terms of linking play (especially in that 4-2-3-1 posted that only has Rashford potentially exploiting the space left)

Now on to Cavani. You should probably disabuse yourself of the notion that he isn't mobile enough; he certainly is. What he lacks in physicals compared to Martial, he more than makes up in mentals. Off the ball and anticipation are handy in any situation but will help you unlock those low blocks in ways pure pace won't. He also ticks all the boxes for a player who will press and harry the opposition, which as we know, in FM some of these ultra defensive sides play keep ball well so that is valuable in its own right.

The final thing here is against these low block sides, we can talk about complex attacking patterns but you still want a box presence, someone who can challenge a defender and potentially score a header. Martial, Rashford and Greenwood are all ghastly in this department. Pogba and McTominay are not bad but they're going to be too deep usually to see this outside of set pieces. This leaves Cavani, who is great at it. Not having him in your side means you lose out on a potential avenue of goals.

[The #9.5]

5 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

I will explain my reasoning for this. In my opinion in modern football to break down tough defences, you will need penetrating runs from deep. Pogba and Fred can provide these runs and are capable to make these runs. Playing them in a 4321 will allow them to make these runs without worrying about the defensive structure of the team. They are like free roaming midfielders in a sense popping up at the wings if needed and moving into midfield if they are not needed. The width will be mainly provided by the two attacking wingbacks so there will be no issue of congesting the wings. And if opposing players decided to tightly mark Mata it is even better as it frees up more space for other players to do the damage. And it is very difficult to assign players to tightly mark him due to the formation which will allow the team to create overloads depending on which player the opposing team assigns to tightly mark Mata. Cavani is expected to drop deep occasionally to pull defenders out for midfielders to attack the space.

Added note: My suggestion here is largely based on Ancelotti tactics from Chelsea 2010 team that is one of the best attacking teams in premier league in the past decade. So it is definitely something tried and tested before. The reason why you do not see teams lining up like this nowadays is because teams have gotten better in transitions over the years and a formation like this can be punished due to its defensive weakness.

Fully agree that runs from deep is key. But while Pogba can be used in such a role, Fred will struggle with his low off the ball (9) and finishing (10). Which is why I proposed the above with Pogba getting high and wide on the right to compensate for the lack of attacking RB while Telles goes up from LB. 

I see your point about the potential benefit of Mata attracting attention to leave more space elsewhere. But I still think him being too static and so easy to mark out is a major downside and will only increase the pressure on the rest of the attacking components to perform (and with no 2nd midfield runner from deep and no attacking RB, the team is already hamstrung enough on that front to have Mata 'out' too). 

I'm can't really remember that Chelsea side in details but I think they had more attacking avenues. Certainly players like Anelka, Malouda, Deco, Ballack and Essien - on top of peak Lampard and Drogba - were more versatile FW/CM/AM options that could be combined in several ways to create far more complex and flexible attack. Something the current Man Utd squad simply doesn't have the tools to achieve. 

Still, I think your initial point and the 4-3-1-2 I posted above is worth testing in-game as it has the potential to at least improve on what we've been seeing from Man Utd this past 2 seasons. 

[The #9.5]

2 hours ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

Any tactic that employs Martial up front instead of Cavani is doomed to failure (or at the very least, not the right the choice). Both in terms of FM (which overrates him) and in real life.

Leaving aside my feelings re: reality and focusing solely on FM:

The primary advantage of Martial is his pace and technical ability and that he can also sort of function as a player that drops in and links up. But we're talking about how to approach stubborn low block teams and what this means is a lot of the advantage Martial has over Cavani is going to be off the table. There's not going to be much to exploit for fast transitions. Like Cavani, he's also sorely lacking in vision so I wouldn't expect much impact in terms of linking play (especially in that 4-2-3-1 posted that only has Rashford potentially exploiting the space left)

Now on to Cavani. You should probably disabuse yourself of the notion that he isn't mobile enough; he certainly is. What he lacks in physicals compared to Martial, he more than makes up in mentals. Off the ball and anticipation are handy in any situation but will help you unlock those low blocks in ways pure pace won't. He also ticks all the boxes for a player who will press and harry the opposition, which as we know, in FM some of these ultra defensive sides play keep ball well so that is valuable in its own right.

The final thing here is against these low block sides, we can talk about complex attacking patterns but you still want a box presence, someone who can challenge a defender and potentially score a header. Martial, Rashford and Greenwood are all ghastly in this department. Pogba and McTominay are not bad but they're going to be too deep usually to see this outside of set pieces. This leaves Cavani, who is great at it. Not having him in your side means you lose out on a potential avenue of goals.

Agree about Martial's not so good link-up play. As I touched above, the aim in having him in support role (and a free-roaming one) is to count on his good team work and movement to roam around in a away that will be in sync with the team and create space for them. That he will be less of a creative threat on the ball is undeniable but is something we have to live with. 

For me, at the top level - and especially against packed defences - Cavani's low acceleration (13) and agility (12) are low enough to claim he isn't mobile enough. I agree he is intelligent enough and that could potentially offset partially his lack of explosive mobility. 

Against low blocks, using such a rather immobile box presence could render that player as merely a decoy/bait. Which in itself is not a bad thing per se as it should attract some attention off the defence. However, having Cavani as the lone FW pushing forward (which in turns pushes deeper the defence) this will mean the space remains ahead of the defence and not in between them. In such scenario I think it's easy to imagine what will follow is Rashford having to dribble his way past packed defence and Fernandes and Pogba having to try only long shots. 

Modern football is all about creating space which an attack-duty FW (to speak in FM terms) in a single FW formation is unlikely to help achieve. But in the case of having limited options with the current Man Utd team, this is something legit as an approach. But I think this is too similar to what Solskjaer has been trying (especially when Cavani indeed was starting up front) and we saw the struggles they had against any half-decent defensive team. 

[NotSoSpecialOne]

Based on personal experience, he has sufficient physical attributes in combination with his mental ones that he is perfectly capable of drifting around to find, exploit or create space. And again, without him in the side, you completely lack any sort of meaningful ability to convert crosses into goals. But perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

Moving on from that, I think that ultimately a lot of the struggle is more on a player side than necessarily a tactical one. Cavani's one of the few players that ever looks like doing something in these sorts of games. Whomever has done the stats for the United players has been a bit generous with a few of them 

That is to say that I don't think a 4-2-3-1 even suits this squad as it stands. McTominay is more of a B2B really and always looks so much better when he's given license to get up and down the pitch instead of sat in front of the back 4. Pogba's wasted as part of that deep central 2. Fred is perhaps the worst central midfielder I've ever seen don the United shirt (poor man's Kleberson ) - he can play that holding role but not really well enough that Pogba/McTominay can get license to move about (which also rules out a 3 man midfield). In FM you can about get away with it though of course.

[Kuchiki]

From a Liverpool fan, I personally would line up with something like this  

No idea how well this translates to FM, you could drop the positions of Pogba and Wan-Bissaka to the WB strata. But I believe this would be a good formation to play up against those low block teams, the players I've chosen know how to pass the ball and can provide a lot of intricate movement. Bissakas crossing can cause a lot of problems with Pogba coming in at the far post, James at the near post, Cavani in the penalty box has the finishers instinct, Fernandes has excellent long shot ability should the second ball drop to him. 

Pogba, McTominay and Fernandes should be able to combine well on the left with give and go's perhaps causing an overload and Pogba can then switch the ball to the opposite flank.

James I think is a pretty good quick technical player who dropping deep could free up space for Cavani or at least the movement should give opposition markers a bit of a headache and his direct dribbling could be a threat.

I wouldn't trust Bailly with playing out from the back I just don't think he's good enough for that so he should keep it simple.

I think a major issue with the Utd squad is the quality of crossing against a low block team where you perhaps need that extra bit of technique and vision something I'm not sure the likes of Shaw and Bissaka have in their locker.