defensive set pieces

[gofferson]

Hello, I have another problem. I lost goals from set pieces in every game. I lost 8 goals from free kicks in 14 matches. How you set up defensive set pieces. I have tall and stron with good aerial defenders bot nothing working in this part of football

[Experienced Defender]

I never man-mark on set pieces. 3 aerially and defensively strongest players (2 of which are usually CBs) zonally mark the near post area, center of the box and far post area respectively. One player (usually a fullback) marks far post. One is at the edge of the area and one stays forward. Others are told to go back. That's it.

[gofferson]

3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

I never man-mark on set pieces. 3 aerially and defensively strongest players (2 of which are usually CBs) zonally mark the near post area, center of the box and far post area respectively. One player (usually a fullback) marks far post. One is at the edge of the area and one stays forward. Others are told to go back. That's it.

How often do you train set pieces? 

[Experienced Defender]

15 minutes ago, gofferson said:

How often do you train set pieces? 

Very rarely in general. Although that can depend on what kind of team I manage and what tactical style I play. For example, if we play the next match against much stronger opposition, it is reasonable to expect they will have a lot of set pieces (assuming we defend well from the open play), so in such cases I usually schedule a couple of defensive set pieces sessions for that week. 

[gofferson]

So this isn't matter you set free kicks or corners you always use this same method? 

[Experienced Defender]

Sorry, but I can't seem to understand your question. 

[gofferson]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

Sorry, but I can't seem to understand your question. 

You set up your free kicks like a corners, in the same way?

Edited June 12, 2021 by gofferson

[Experienced Defender]

58 minutes ago, gofferson said:

You set up your free kicks like a corners, in the same way?

Yes, except that:

- for direct free kicks I put 4 players in the wall

- for indirect free kicks I put only 1 player in the wall

The rest is like corners.

[gofferson]

Thanks for answer and help

[glengarry224]

3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Yes, except that:

- for direct free kicks I put 4 players in the wall

- for indirect free kicks I put only 1 player in the wall

The rest is like corners.

@Experienced Defender I'd like to zonally mark, but for defending free kicks - Direct, I do not have the option for my players to zonally mark.  The only options are: 

Is this just me?  I know that you are a moderator, not a developer, but do you know why they did this?  Who would we ping to answer this?

I've always mixed man-marking with go-back but maybe I'll switch more players to 'go back.'

thanks!

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, glengarry224 said:

I'd like to zonally mark, but for defending free kicks - Direct, I do not have the option for my players to zonally mark

Every option except for man marking is zonal marking. Go back is zonal marking. Mark near post and/or far post is zonal marking. Edge of area is zonal marking. Marking any of the 5 areas between near and far post is zonal marking. Even the form wall option is effectively zonal marking.

[glengarry224]

15 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Every option except for man marking is zonal marking. Go back is zonal marking. Mark near post and/or far post is zonal marking. Edge of area is zonal marking. Marking any of the 5 areas between near and far post is zonal marking. Even the form wall option is effectively zonal marking.

Ok, but I think that you know what I meant (?)  There are no options to zonally mark the six yard box, either far post, far centre, centre, etc., vs those options are available with defending corners and every other free kick situation, therefore the only options for my defenders with direct free kicks, if they want to actually defend the opponents going forwards, as opposed to forming a wall or lurking, is to Man Mark or Go Back.  What happens is that quicker defenders always beat them back to the goal but what I want is for 2-3 of my defenders to be waiting in the six yard box.

 

Also, I think this is a flaw in the game, which I've reported, but perhaps I just do not understand how this works.  Here is my Defend Free Kicks - Deep tactic:

And here is how my guys always line up:

I see no defenders zonally marking the six yard box far or near post, which is what my tactic instructs. 

[jozza800]

One thing I've found that helps is to check the height and jumping reach of your dms/cms/fbs. If they're really short with poor jumping then keep them well away from dangerous areas. 

I found that if set up for my 6' 4" full back to mark player at the near post. He was a beast, nothing got passed him. 

His 5' 8" (jumping reach of 3!) understudy got murdered every time because he was taking up the same important position. 

Rather than faff about changing the set pieces every time I brought him in to the team I had to sell him. And now I only look for 6'+ right backs or convert cbs. 

[Experienced Defender]

12 hours ago, glengarry224 said:

There are no options to zonally mark the six yard box, either far post, far centre, centre, etc

Well, these are exactly the options that pertain to marking the 6-yard box. There is no instruction called "mark 6-yard box", but those that you mentioned actually mark different areas of the box. 

 

12 hours ago, glengarry224 said:

 

12 hours ago, glengarry224 said:

I see no defenders zonally marking the six yard box far or near post, which is what my tactic instructs

This is how players line up during defensive free kicks in real-life football. So I don't see why would you expect them to behave differently in a game that is by far the most realistic replication of real football. 

Btw, the situation from your screenshot could also be caused by the "Use offside trap" TI (in case you use it). If I remember correctly, @Rashidi mentioned that in some of his videos.

[glengarry224]

11 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Well, these are exactly the options that pertain to marking the 6-yard box. There is no instruction called "mark 6-yard box", but those that you mentioned actually mark different areas of the box. 

Ok, for defending Direct free kicks, there are no such options, but there are for defending the other free kicks:

11 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

This is how players line up during defensive free kicks in real-life football.

That's an excellent point. I do get that, and I generally appreciate that the game is trying to simulate real football, but I want to instruct my players to do something different because I give up way too many good chances defending Deep free kicks, more than in most any other aspects of the game, because my players routinely get beaten to over the top passes, so I want to try having them to start behind the play and go forwards.  What's confusing is that the set piece instructions make it look like that is what they should be doing -- zonally marking positions in the six yard box regardless of the attackers milling around up higher -- and that is what they do versus corners, indirect free kicks with little chance of shot and wide free kicks.

In general, in terms of enjoyment of the game, set pieces are my biggest frustration.  Often, my players don't follow instructions - for example, with attacking throw ins, I'll instruct 3-4 men to 'stay back' but only 1 will stay back, leading to dangerous counter attacks - plus substitutions require too much time to make sure that the attacking set piece instructions do not suddenly have huge holes.

 

11 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Btw, the situation from your screenshot could also be caused by the "Use offside trap"

  Good point.

[Experienced Defender]

12 hours ago, glengarry224 said:

On 13/06/2021 at 13:20, Experienced Defender said:

This is how players line up during defensive free kicks in real-life football.

That's an excellent point. I do get that, and I generally appreciate that the game is trying to simulate real football, but I want to instruct my players to do something different

Okay, but how am I (or anyone here) supposed to help you about that? The game is designed as it is by its developers, so you can only work with the options that are currently available. 

 

12 hours ago, glengarry224 said:

Often, my players don't follow instructions - for example, with attacking throw ins, I'll instruct 3-4 men to 'stay back' but only 1 will stay back, leading to dangerous counter attacks - plus substitutions require too much time to make sure that the attacking set piece instructions do not suddenly have huge holes

I've heard several examples of people having that exact kind of problems, but again I really don't know what I can do to help, especially as I myself haven't experienced such problems so far. I guess someone already reported that in the bugs forum, so you can take a look there.

[glengarry224]

6 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Okay, but how am I (or anyone here) supposed to help you about that? The game is designed as it is by its developers, so you can only work with the options that are currently available. 

 

I've heard several examples of people having that exact kind of problems, but again I really don't know what I can do to help, especially as I myself haven't experienced such problems so far. I guess someone already reported that in the bugs forum, so you can take a look there.

That's true.  Wasn't blaming you and you are just trying to help people with what the game can do.  I appreciate that.  Anyway, your tips in this topic, and others, are helpful.  Thanks