Lermon Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Heywood JaBlowme said: Winner is already predetermined. Most rigged International tournament in history. Italy have no chance. Victory for the English diving team. "Spain have completed 812 passes to Italy’s 299. Stats don’t always tell a story, but there’s a tale, right there" Italy had to rely on the luck of a penalty shootout to get to the final. Sometimes having a bit of humility is best and not slating the opposition Edited July 8, 2021 by Lermon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius_R Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Yeah, because the number of passes statistic is the most relevant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Hacker Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 2 hours ago, DJ said: Scoreboard journalism. They have had several situations where the opponent didn't score due to the opponent's fault (Müller for example). I think, overall, Italy have the better defense. It's close of course. England have given up less clear-cut chances than Italy and have given up less expected goals per game on average this tournament. They've only conceded a 30-yard screamer from a dodgy free-kick, and have only given up 2 clear-cut chances that I can recall (Werner and Muller for Germany). We've had the best defence in the tournament by most measures. Of course, Italy definitely have players that can breach that defence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuelawachie Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 1 hour ago, DJ said: Because I think Italy have the bigger chance to win it, I'm a hater? That's just the stereotypical behavior of the English fans in this forum. Everyone who isn't for us is automatically against us. They are deleting posts, and banning people right and left to keep the approved narrative going... It's just so sad. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lermon Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 6 minutes ago, Marius_R said: Yeah, because the number of passes statistic is the most relevant. Ok throughout tournament: Most Passes: Spain Highest Quality of Passes: Spain Covered most ground: Spain Most Possession: Spain Highest number of shots: Italy Highest number of shots on target: Spain You're welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 44 minutes ago, Heywood JaBlowme said: Victory for the English diving team. It's coming home lads... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 1 minute ago, enigmatic said: It's coming home lads... That's a proper Cristiano Ronaldo celebration ^^ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lermon Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, samuelawachie said: That's just the stereotypical behavior of the English fans in this forum. Everyone who isn't for us is automatically against us. They are deleting posts, and banning people right and left to keep the approved narrative going... It's just so sad. It's bad form to sour a team's win in my opinion. England fans are jubilant, and people are coming along and putting their negativity upon it. Read the mood, don't be toxic. Keep your opinions to yourself, you don't have to go out of your way to antagonise a fan of a team who has never seen their team in a final for 55 years. Some social awareness is pretty damned key. Edited July 8, 2021 by Lucas Inappropriate 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Hacker Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 7 minutes ago, samuelawachie said: That's just the stereotypical behavior of the English fans in this forum. Everyone who isn't for us is automatically against us. They are deleting posts, and banning people right and left to keep the approved narrative going... It's just so sad. Can we ban this guy for going against the approved narrative? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Lermon said: It's bad form to sour a team's win in my opinion. England fans are jubilant, and people are autistically coming along and putting their negativity upon it. Read the mood, don't be toxic. Keep your opinions to yourself, you don't have to go out of your way to antagonise a fan of a team who has never seen their team in a final for 55 years. Some social awareness is pretty damned key. I'm not subscribing to above conspiracy, but I think being called a hater because you think Englands opponent is more likely to win is frankly laughable. Edited July 8, 2021 by DJ 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius_R Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, Lermon said: Ok throughout tournament: Most Passes: Spain Highest Quality of Passes: Spain Covered most ground: Spain Most Possession: Spain Highest number of shots: Italy Highest number of shots on target: Spain You're welcome. Passes and possesion stats are mostly pointless and don't mean much. Italy needed 3 or 4 passes to get from one end to the other and score. Italy and England have the most wins. Italy and England play the final. Italy and England have the best goal difference. Spain lead in number of goals scored, but they scored 10 of their 13 goals in two games. Spain's passing game was good, but they lacked that cutting edge in front of goal. The general impression, both in this forum, and pretty much everywhere else, is that overall, Italy and England have been the best teams in the tournament, and other than number of shots, nothing suggests that from your list of statistics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Record in finals Can't argue with Maths Its Coming Home! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lermon Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Marius_R said: Passes and possesion stats are mostly pointless and don't mean much. Italy needed 3 or 4 passes to get from one end to the other and score. Italy and England have the most wins. Italy and England play the final. Italy and England have the best goal difference. Spain lead in number of goals scored, but they scored 10 of their 13 goals in two games. Spain's passing game was good, but they lacked that cutting edge in front of goal. The general impression, both in this forum, and pretty much everywhere else, is that overall, Italy and England have been the best teams in the tournament, and other than number of shots, nothing suggests that from your list of statistics. Oh of course. That's objective reasoning 'the general impression, both in this forum and pretty much everywhere'. Lol My point if we go back, is the benefit of being humble. Italy's path to the final was not a fully engrossing deserved path. They couldn't beat Spain in 90minutes, they couldn't beat Spain in 120 minutes. Instead, it came down to the lottery of a penalty shoot out. So be grateful in the first place to be in the final, and don't slate the opposition who also had a handy piece of luck. And lastly don't come up with some rubbish that the final is pre-scripted. You just ruin, what will be a very good game. That could go either way. Italy, or England are capable of winning it. Edited July 8, 2021 by Lermon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius_R Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, Lermon said: My point if we go back, is the benefit of being humble. Italy's path to the final was not a fully engrossing deserved path. They couldn't beat Spain in 90minutes, they couldn't beat Spain in 120 minutes. Instead, it came down to the lottery of a penalty shoot out. So be grateful in the first place to be in the final, and don't slate the opposition who also had a handy piece of luck. Even worse don't come up with some rubbish that the final is pre-scripted. You just ruin, what will be a very good game. That could go either way. Italy, or England are capable of winning it. Fair enough, I agree with this. Especially with the bolded part. As for the general impression, I meant pundits, ex-footballers, journalists and yes, ultimately fans too, agree that England and Italy have deservedly made the final. Those that can be objective and not go down the rigged or pre-scripted route anyway. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Federico Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 45 minuti fa, Lermon ha scritto: My point if we go back, is the benefit of being humble. Italy's path to the final was not a fully engrossing deserved path. They couldn't beat Spain in 90minutes, they couldn't beat Spain in 120 minutes. Instead, it came down to the lottery of a penalty shoot out. So be grateful in the first place to be in the final, and don't slate the opposition who also had a handy piece of luck. Ahmmmm.... LOL? Apart the bolded nonsense of yours, penalties are partly luck, partly skills. Just as anything else in football, if you ever played football in your life of course. Harsh way to determine the winner, we've been losing on penalties many many times and it hurts, but that's it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Federico Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 1 ora fa, Barry Cartman ha scritto: Record in finals Can't argue with Maths Its Coming Home! Yeah, I hope I'm not going to discourage you but from this cake chart it looks like, on long term, a team wins about 50% of the finals played. That's what my math says. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heywood JaBlowme Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Federico said: Yeah, I hope I'm not going to discourage you but from this cake chart it looks like, on long term, a team wins about 50% of the finals played. Hmm... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haguey Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Even Gunman knows it's coming home Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 its coming home Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius_R Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 50 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said: Hmm... 2 out of 9 is not that far off from 50%. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Just now, Marius_R said: 2 out of 9 is not that far off from 50%. The only thing comforting me is that Bonucci will be sad if Italy loses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius_R Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said: The only thing comforting me is that Bonucci will be sad if Italy loses. I don't care that much who wins it, would prefer Italy, because of Barella and Bastoni, and because Chiellini deserves to win a major trophy, but if England win, I won't be bothered, they've waited so long for this moment that it genuinely would be great to see them win it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Federico Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 1 ora fa, GunmaN1905 ha scritto: Hmm... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 don't have any fancy pictures but Benfica's record in European finals would have been a much better example won 2 beating Barcelona and Real Madrid (1960-61 and 1961-62) and then went on to lose the next 8 European finals they've taken part in (European Cup/Europa League etc) potentially all due to the "curse" of a former manager in Bela Guttmann 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Amazing Dale Watkins Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 I don't know who's right, but I'll be calling it a cake chart from now on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefmveteran86 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Even if we lose on Sunday, those memories will last me a lifetime (hopefully we'll get more memories) we got to a final at Wembley and the boys singing the national anthem will give me goosebumps, yes we got those charges against us, who gives a flying f***? we're in a major tournament final Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius_R Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 5 hours ago, Barry Cartman said: Record in finals Can't argue with Maths Its Coming Home! Can't lose anymore finals if you don't play them. Good plan this. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 10 hours ago, DJ said: Italy defend better than England and score that little bit more easily. They also ooze team spirit and have a history of adapting to whatever it takes to win. Italy will win this 7 out of 10 times. But it is just one game. Disagree. We've conceded one goal in 6 games this tournament and that was from a FK from 30 yards out. The best chance against us in open play (Muller) came from a back pass from inside our own half. Not to say Italy haven't defended well because they clearly have and Chiellini and Bonucci are a couple of wiley old foxes but England's attack against them with their pace and link play could be huge. This England squad also 'oozes team spirit' It's such a tough game to call. 9 hours ago, martynlcfc said: Not sure what your point is, unless you're trying to detract from England's run because you don't like them? There are no "top sides" in this tournament. There are faded names of once top sides and a few very good, but not elite sides. England will not be undercooked, they have played plenty of "good enough" opposition to be battle hardened. Croatia, Czech Republic, Germany and Denmark are all decent opposition. The way some people drone on you'd think we'd faced San Marino, Andorra and Luxembourg to reach the final. 9 hours ago, Tikka Mezzala said: While it's true that many of the big sides have been very under par, and looking at the squads, perhaps only Belgium have had a golden generation (excluding the lesser ranked sides). But this England side could go on to become one of the best in recent history. Still a lot of youth in the team. If they win on Sunday, who would put it past them winning the WC in 2022? I can't see massive changes in the quality of the other teams in a year, and I don't think Brazil and Argentina are unstoppable. I think this is England's time, and the work that Southgate has put in to make it happen is fantastic. The potential is there in England, it's a matter of whether it will be achieved, or whether they end up like Belgium with a nearly generation. I don't like the term and thankfully it's not been coined for this batch but I'd say England do actually have a 'golden generation' on their hands right now. More so than the current Belgium side as well. In terms of quality and quality in depth there's only France that can challenge England right now and for me they are behind England on that front right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebs Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 I just keep thinking it's going to be 2-2 by the end of 90 mins and having no idea what happens next. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cms186 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 i think Italy will; probably win, but losing Spinazzola is a big blow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevehFC Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Italia to cheat their way to win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggins Top Boys Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 England could beat Italy but I am not sure we will win. Italy have been great and arguably better than us throughout the tournament and hey, if we're being told that cheaters are prospering then there's no better experts in that than the Italians. I am not sure if it's conditioning of supporting a crap team and England but I always find it easier to just assume you're not going to win and take it from there although either way losing a final would be a different kind of heartbreak to usual, similar to the WC semi final loss, where you really would just have to be proud of the team and it's progression under no real expectation. If we do win I hope it's with a hand of god and VAR stops working or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Federico Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 15 ore fa, The Amazing Dale Watkins ha scritto: I don't know who's right, but I'll be calling it a cake chart from now on. Haha sorry I "italianized" that chart, we call it that way here, "grafico a torta" I don't know how you call it over there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Federico Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 2 ore fa, Wiggins Top Boys ha scritto: If we do win I hope it's with a hand of god and VAR stops working or something. Again? But yeah, jumping from Maradona to South Africa 2010, England has been incredibly robbed in major tournaments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordan Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 I'll admit it might be mostly hope, England seem unstoppable. Italy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 39 minutes ago, Federico said: Haha sorry I "italianized" that chart, we call it that way here, "grafico a torta" I don't know how you call it over there pie chart over here should call it a "cake chart" though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Cake Chart makes way more sense Assume Pie Chart is an american term we use, a pie to me is a little thing from the chippy you eat in a few bites 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Federico Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 30 minuti fa, TM ha scritto: pie chart over here should call it a "cake chart" though Pie!!!! Hahahaha I feel so dumb!!! Edit: so I wasn't that wrong after all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Cake chart is better. American need to learn what a pie is Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Federico said: Haha sorry I "italianized" that chart, we call it that way here, "grafico a torta" I don't know how you call it over there should be a grafico a pizza surely?!? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Federico Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 1 minuto fa, enigmatic ha scritto: should be a grafico a pizza surely?!? Always wondered why we haven't called it like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 nah a true Italian pizza isn't perfectly round Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Does make you wonder what a calzone chart would look like ^^ 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Amazing Dale Watkins Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 4 hours ago, enigmatic said: should be a grafico a pizza surely?!? that is actually what it's called in Portuguese, gráfico de pizza 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 4 hours ago, Barry Cartman said: nah a true Italian pizza isn't perfectly round No real food should have geometrically correct shape, it's just American fast food propaganda. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 On 08/07/2021 at 11:45, skybluedave said: Denmark are a TOP side There a good team. But not a Top team Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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