Team instructions Vs. player instructions

[Sheldrake]

So I'm trying to create a direct counter-attacking 4-4-2 for the Vanarama leagues. As part of that, I want my players to tackle hard, mark tight, hit through balls, run with ball etc.

But what's the interplay between player and team instructions here? If I choose "mark tight" as a team instruction, is there any point to giving the same player instruction to individual players? Do one cancel out the other, or do they mark even tighter if I have both? And which players does the team instruction affect? All of them, or just players within certain positions?

Same goes for "tackle harder". What's the interplay between team and player instructions here?

Same for "run with ball".

And how about "pass into space"? Is that the same as just giving a few players the "take more risks", or is that an instruction in its own right, that says something about where to aim passes?

Some specifics:

I want my two fullbacks, my two wingers and one of my central midfielders to run with ball. They all have player instructions for this. But do they need that if I have the team instruction to run at defence?

I want one of my midfielders to hit through balls. He's a cm-support, so doesn't have any default instructions. Do I need to give him the "take more risks" if I also have "pass into space" as a team instruction?

Do I want my defenders and bwm to tackle hard and mark tight if I already have these as team instructions? 

Basically what I want is to create a "clean" tactic with no overlapping or unnecessary instructions.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Formation and roles:

------------P-------TM(s)---------

W(a)---CM(s)---BWM(d)----W(a)

FB(s)---CD-------CD---------FB(s)

My instructions/issues right now:

- Fullbacks + CM have "run with ball". Wingers have it by default. On top of that, I have team instruction "run at opposition". Pointless with both?

- All players have "tackle hard" + "mark tight". Pointless with team instructions as well?

- My CM and TM have "take more risks". Pointless with team instruction "pass into space"?

- All midfielders, fullbacks and wingers have "shoot less". Pointless with team instruction "work ball into box"?

Edited July 15, 2021 by Sheldrake
Additional info

[CAE82]

I believe it is related to Teamwork. A player with a high Teamwork attribute is more likely to follow the Team Instructions. Whereas a player with low teamwork is likely to go for his PPM over his tactical instructions. 

[Marc Vaughan]

19 hours ago, CAE82 said:

I believe it is related to Teamwork. A player with a high Teamwork attribute is more likely to follow the Team Instructions. Whereas a player with low teamwork is likely to go for his PPM over his tactical instructions. 

A player will follow team instructions by default unless they are over-ridden with specific player instructions - in this manner you can play hard tackling but exclude the psychotic midfielder who likes to do on-pitch kung-fu classes (I have two of these in my current game, both active ball-winning midfielders ... they're too good to drop, but damned if they don't leave us with 10 men at least a couple of times a season ... even with them set to go gentle on people).

Teamwork on the other hand affects how well players work together, for example a winger who has a chance at a shot but has a team-mate in a better position will shoot if he more often if has low teamwork and pass if it's high (that's somewhat simplified obviously as there are lots of variables at play, but hopefully that gives the 'gist' of things).

[Bripants]

So how/where do you go to improve a players Teamwork attribute? 

[Sheldrake]

8 hours ago, Marc Vaughan said:

A player will follow team instructions by default unless they are over-ridden with specific player instructions

Thanks. So in other words: If I already have "tackle hard", "run with ball", "mark tight" and "pass into space" in the team instructions, it doesn't add anything to give these as individual instructions as well?

Follow-up question:

Take something like "run at opposition" as a team instruction...I'd suppose that wouldn't include the GK and central defenders. But which positions specifically do the various team instructions affect?

Does "tackle hard" and "mark tighter" include strikers and wingers? Does "run at defence" include fullbacks?

And so forth...I guess what I'm looking for is a comprehensive list of which positions/roles/duties any given team instruction would affect.

Any insight here is much appreciated!

Edited July 18, 2021 by Sheldrake

[Marc Vaughan]

1 hour ago, Sheldrake said:

Thanks. So in other words: If I already have "tackle hard", "run with ball", "mark tight" and "pass into space" in the team instructions, it doesn't add anything to give these as individual instructions as well?

Nope - it'd be like giving a group instructions and then taking one of them aside to give them the same instructions ...

1 hour ago, Sheldrake said:

Follow-up question:

Take something like "run at opposition" as a team instruction...I'd suppose that wouldn't include the GK and central defenders. But which positions specifically do the various team instructions affect?

Does "tackle hard" and "mark tighter" include strikers and wingers? Does "run at defence" include fullbacks?

And so forth...I guess what I'm looking for is a comprehensive list of which positions/roles/duties any given team instruction would affect.

Any insight here is much appreciated!

I'll have to take a look into the match engine code to double check this - bear with me (I designed and coded the original match engine that FM uses, but have been off in Mobile land for a long-time and don't want to accidentally mislead you - but my expectation would be that common sense is applied to these as you presume, that was how it was in the original match engine and I doubt its changed).

[Sheldrake]

5 hours ago, Marc Vaughan said:

Nope - it'd be like giving a group instructions and then taking one of them aside to give them the same instructions ...

I'll have to take a look into the match engine code to double check this - bear with me (I designed and coded the original match engine that FM uses, but have been off in Mobile land for a long-time and don't want to accidentally mislead you - but my expectation would be that common sense is applied to these as you presume, that was how it was in the original match engine and I doubt its changed).

Very informative, so thanks a lot! Looking forward to hearing about what you can dig up from the match engine code

[CAE82]

On 18/07/2021 at 04:54, Marc Vaughan said:

A player will follow team instructions by default unless they are over-ridden with specific player instructions - in this manner you can play hard tackling but exclude the psychotic midfielder who likes to do on-pitch kung-fu classes (I have two of these in my current game, both active ball-winning midfielders ... they're too good to drop, but damned if they don't leave us with 10 men at least a couple of times a season ... even with them set to go gentle on people).

Teamwork on the other hand affects how well players work together, for example a winger who has a chance at a shot but has a team-mate in a better position will shoot if he more often if has low teamwork and pass if it's high (that's somewhat simplified obviously as there are lots of variables at play, but hopefully that gives the 'gist' of things).

Thanks for the reply, the FM2021 manual seems to suggest that Teamwork does play a role though?

Teamwork

How well the player follows tactical instructions and works for and alongside their team-mates. A team full of players with a high rating here works better as a unit. Players with lower ratings slack off and do not ‘buy in’ to the team ethos, becoming more individual, and not providing adequate support for their team-mates. It is also used to help decide whether or not a player opts to use one of his Player Traits ahead of a tactical instruction.

[Marc Vaughan]

3 hours ago, CAE82 said:

Thanks for the reply, the FM2021 manual seems to suggest that Teamwork does play a role though?

Teamwork

How well the player follows tactical instructions and works for and alongside their team-mates. A team full of players with a high rating here works better as a unit. Players with lower ratings slack off and do not ‘buy in’ to the team ethos, becoming more individual, and not providing adequate support for their team-mates. It is also used to help decide whether or not a player opts to use one of his Player Traits ahead of a tactical instruction.

Yeah that would make sense - you can also see other attributes adjust things, for instance I have several semi-psychotic players in my team (aggression 19-20) and so I always play light tackling ... it doesn't stop them being aggressive, but they do less karate kicks and outright assaults that way   (at least that's how I envisage things - I watch the matches in 2d).

[CAE82]

On 22/07/2021 at 00:17, Marc Vaughan said:

Yeah that would make sense - you can also see other attributes adjust things, for instance I have several semi-psychotic players in my team (aggression 19-20) and so I always play light tackling ... it doesn't stop them being aggressive, but they do less karate kicks and outright assaults that way   (at least that's how I envisage things - I watch the matches in 2d).

Thanks - so in this case are you referring to playing light tackling as a team rather than individual instructions? Or both?

Yes, I’m a 2D guy. Better than the text from my childhood and avoids the fans on my laptop going haywire when in 3D! I prefer it to 3D anyhow as you get a much better view  of team shape and passing/movement options. But you do need a good imagination to see a dot two-foot another dot :)

 

 

[Marc Vaughan]

7 hours ago, CAE82 said:

Thanks - so in this case are you referring to playing light tackling as a team rather than individual instructions? Or both?

Yes, I’m a 2D guy. Better than the text from my childhood and avoids the fans on my laptop going haywire when in 3D! I prefer it to 3D anyhow as you get a much better view  of team shape and passing/movement options. But you do need a good imagination to see a dot two-foot another dot

Could be either - but I use light tackling for the team because I use excessive pressing ... and also because it reduces the amount of penalties I give away .... hopefully

(just missed out on the damn play-offs for the third season in a row on my current save - nothing like losing in the final repeatedly ..., I simply cannot quite make it out of the Championship ... on the other hand Eastbourne will be in their new all-seater stadium next season - perhaps it'll be 'my' season?) I 

[CAE82]

8 hours ago, Marc Vaughan said:

perhaps it'll be 'my' season?)

I suppose you know better than anyone if the game is scripted, lol!

If the pitch condition in your new stadium is much better than your current one, then it could help if you play a shorter passing game?

I was doing a Farsley save earlier in FMT21 and I certainly felt performances improved after moving to a new rental stadium (in Rochdale, Lancashire rather than West Yorkshire!) with a perfect pitch. But I’d signed a few better players so hard to say for certain it was all to do with the pitch. 

[Marc Vaughan]

1 hour ago, CAE82 said:

I suppose you know better than anyone if the game is scripted, lol!

Definitely not scripted sadly .. otherwise I'd give my seasons happier endings

 

1 hour ago, CAE82 said:

If the pitch condition in your new stadium is much better than your current one, then it could help if you play a shorter passing game?

Passing (and other things) are affected by pitch condition and weather .. playing short fast passes on a muddy wet pitch won't go well.