Time to give up

[Oli99]

Just can't make any formation work for this team, we just concede goals and struggle to score. Every team has a better expected goal and higher shots on and off target plus hardly any players perform well according to their rating. I've tried Tonali as a APM but it's made no difference and a DLF instead of AF. I've also used more attacking styles with higher Def and LOE. Unless your one of the very best teams, it seems impossible 

[Tsuru]

Although I consider the Mezzala a very difficult role to work with, I don´t see any glaring issues on your roles/duties. Maybe the right WB could be on Support for example, but that´s a personal preference.

Maybe the TIs are overcomplicating things - for example, the intensity bar is in red, when it happened with me my teams used to rush things a lot, and others look counterproductive. Personally I would remove all TIs and play with the "blank tactic" to see if things improve. Then I would consider adding the TIs one by one based in what I see on the field, if they are really necessary.

[Oli99]

OK, I'll give it a try. Not sure why the intensity bar is so high. Pressing is standard and I only use 'get stuck in' so the teams not passive. I find the team will play well for a bit usually at the start of the season, then it drops off completely and we're outplayed by every team. Thank you 

[Tsuru]

3 minutos atrás, Oli99 disse:

OK, I'll give it a try. Not sure why the intensity bar is so high. Pressing is standard and I only use 'get stuck in' so the teams not passive. I find the team will play well for a bit usually at the start of the season, then it drops off completely and we're outplayed by every team. Thank you 

Counter-Press and Get Stuck In raise intensity, I think. But as I said it is not just about intensity, some TIs are counterproductive too. Playing without them might help you on seeing what your team really needs (or if it doesn´t need anything).

[zabyl]

I'm sure you'll solve the issues after watching your last games again with asking yourself similar questions:

• Is AFa isolated from other players most of the time?
• Is WB contributing offensive side of play sufficiently with a defend duty?
• How does your team use the ball on attacking phase?
• How wide attackers and centre mids position themselves on attacking phase? Are they creating enough movement and being a pass option?
• Does your team play too conservative with not taking requisite risks?
• Does your team steal the ball where you want from them?
• How and where does your team lose the ball?

Those questions can be enhanced by yourself.

Edited August 30, 2021 by zabyl

[Oli99]

I'm playing touch so, as fa's as I know you can't replay the game ? Maybe I'll remove counter press for a start. The AF is regularly left isolated but, I can't work out how to fix that playing a counter attacking style. The WB de was a conservative role on the MEZ attack side but you're right he contributes nothing in an attacking sense. There's such a lack of attacking transitions that it's difficult to judge the movement and passing play but, I assume its inadequate. The other thing I've noticed is that they're incapable of dispossesing the opposition and regularly lose possession with unnecessarily risky passes. 

[Oli99]

...far as

[YAMS]

I would raise your LOE, definitely. Seems too passive to me. Possibly lose the counter attack as well & change the MEZ A to a APS or the DMD to a DLPD. I'd like one of those three centre mid roles to be a playmaker. If you are set on the MEZA then change the AF to DLPS perhaps, would give them some nice link play. The AF seems isolated. Maybe change the left winger to IWA or IFA as well. 

Edited August 30, 2021 by YAMS

[Oli99]

OK, I'll try these one by one and experiment, thank you

[zabyl]

First, you don't have to use the same methods against every opponent. You can play predominant football against weaker opponents. If playing against a top 6 team, then that can be the right choice to adapt a counter style.

As i posted some questions, try to give the right answers and change things experimentally and change 1-2 things to make your team responsive to those right answers. Trying to change too many things at the same time can worsen and complicate things instead of solving issues.

 

1 saat önce, Oli99 said:

The AF is regularly left isolated but, I can't work out how to fix that playing a counter attacking style.

First issue is noticed. Using AFa with a lone forward without an AMC behind, isolates him from others. Try to use another striker role/duty which both suits your methods and your next opponent.

 

1 saat önce, Oli99 said:

Maybe I'll remove counter press for a start.

Second issue is here. Use counter-press as an in-game strategy for a starting point if you think it suits your methods and your next opposition. Using it without knowing its impact to your team is a high risk.

 

1 saat önce, Oli99 said:

The WB de was a conservative role on the MEZ attack side but you're right he contributes nothing in an attacking sense.

Then using a FBs instead of WBd behind an IWs can be the logical option.

 

1 saat önce, Oli99 said:

There's such a lack of attacking transitions that it's difficult to judge the movement and passing play but, I assume its inadequate.

You will judge and solve after doing needed changes and watching the game on extended or full for some time on 2D mode. You'll understand what i mean.

 

1 saat önce, Oli99 said:

The other thing I've noticed is that they're incapable of dispossesing the opposition and regularly lose possession with unnecessarily risky passes.

Could this be related to not enough off the ball movement, fewer passing options, opposition's pressing urgency or bad player choices? Pay attention while watching the games.

Edited August 30, 2021 by zabyl

[Oli99]

There's a lot to consider, thank you for taking the time to help.

[Oli99]

I do try and vary the style but, I don't have much success with a higher defensive line and higher LOE. I'm unable to find roles that suit the players despite using their attributes to decide. I have regularly played with a DLF attack which helps but suffer from a further lack of goals. Surely there should be plenty of off the ball movement with a MEZ but I assume there's too many roles that like to run with the ball. The BWM doesn't seem to be the right choice either but again I can't find a role that fits 

[alerosso]

Just a few things from the top of my head

- Since you already have a DM(d) maybe try a simple CM(s) instead of the BWM or keep the BWM and switch the DM to a playmaker/regista so that he will be more encouraged to look for longer/riskier balls when countering

- Maybe use a CM(a) rather than a Mez so that it will still make off the ball runs but with less roaming (also note that I don't think Tonali is a perfect fit for a Mez(a))

- As for the striker, maybe take a look at other roles like DLF/CF/TM(s) so that he will drop deeper and be more involved in your play rather than just push forward like an AF will do

- At that point, the IF(s) on the left can become an IF(a). When your striker drops deep to get the ball will now have both the AML and the right CM attacking the defence from his sides

- If you want to play an aggressive counter-attacking style of football is patiently playing out of defence with a balanced mentality really the right thing to ask your team to do?

- On the same note, is an immediate counter-press a good option if you want to play on the counter? Cause that's basically asking your team to try and recover the ball as soon and as high up the pitch as possible, while potentially exposing yourself on defence.

 

I may be totally wrong but I hope some of this will help

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by alerosso

[Garrlor]

5 hours ago, Oli99 said:

I do try and vary the style but, I don't have much success with a higher defensive line and higher LOE. I'm unable to find roles that suit the players despite using their attributes to decide. I have regularly played with a DLF attack which helps but suffer from a further lack of goals. Surely there should be plenty of off the ball movement with a MEZ but I assume there's too many roles that like to run with the ball. The BWM doesn't seem to be the right choice either but again I can't find a role that fits 

I am going to suggest something crazy and off the wall. How about a CM(Su) instead of the BWM? As he will do a bit of everything it might just be the tool you are looking for. You could also consider Tonali as a DLP(De) or RGA at the base of your 3 to help focus the play a little when you have the ball. AF (A) is not a great role for that formation unless you are playing with wingers who are trying to hit early crosses from deep to bend them into his runs. Otherwise he will end up isolated when you have the ball as the IF will not be the quickest in to support him.

[YAMS]

8 hours ago, Oli99 said:

I do try and vary the style but, I don't have much success with a higher defensive line and higher LOE. I'm unable to find roles that suit the players despite using their attributes to decide. I have regularly played with a DLF attack which helps but suffer from a further lack of goals. Surely there should be plenty of off the ball movement with a MEZ but I assume there's too many roles that like to run with the ball. The BWM doesn't seem to be the right choice either but again I can't find a role that fits 

AF's really need a no.10 imo, you could try an APS or APA instead of the MEZA. I think you need a to get a playmaker in your midfield 3 somewhere. As others have said the CMS instead of the BWMS perhaps but personally I like a destroyer in there. See your midfield 3 as one runner, one creator, one destroyer. 

I don't like counter & counter press together either, it will put pressure on your forwards/midfielders & better teams than you will pass you apart. Try either both off (nothing highlighted)  or counter press with hold shape or regroup with counter. I only counter press teams I know I'm better than, it's asking for trouble otherwise. 

Edited August 30, 2021 by YAMS

[Oli99]

OK, I understand what your saying about counterpress, I do generally only use it against teams I think we're better than but perhaps I'm overestimating the capabilities of our team. I'll try the alternatives you suggest and see what works. I'll also try the CMs instead of BWM, I think it will suit Locatelli. Based on what you're saying I can see why the AF isn't working in this tactic with an INW and INF and therefore a lack of crosses for him. Do you think my best option is a DLF s ?

[Oli99]

Thanks for all taking the time to help, there's plenty to consider here. I really enjoy the game so it would be a shame to give up 

[YAMS]

3 hours ago, Oli99 said:

OK, I understand what your saying about counterpress, I do generally only use it against teams I think we're better than but perhaps I'm overestimating the capabilities of our team. I'll try the alternatives you suggest and see what works. I'll also try the CMs instead of BWM, I think it will suit Locatelli. Based on what you're saying I can see why the AF isn't working in this tactic with an INW and INF and therefore a lack of crosses for him. Do you think my best option is a DLF s ?

DLFS, F9, CFS or PFS.... Any of the support striker roles really. I like the DLFS myself the most though, yes. The F9 & the CFS are more specialist roles, the PFS might be best for a counter press system. 

[Oli99]

On 30/08/2021 at 12:29, zabyl said:

I'm sure you'll solve the issues after watching your last games again with asking yourself similar questions:

• Is AFa isolated from other players most of the time?
• Is WB contributing offensive side of play sufficiently with a defend duty?
• How does your team use the ball on attacking phase?
• How wide attackers and centre mids position themselves on attacking phase? Are they creating enough movement and being a pass option?
• Does your team play too conservative with not taking requisite risks?
• Does your team steal the ball where you want from them?
• How and where does your team lose the ball?

Those questions can be enhanced by yourself.

I've changed things based on everything I've read here and decided the best way is to keep it simple. I've done away with counter press but, kept counter attack now with regroup after losing possession. Now using a DLFs with a INFa and CMa. I noticed straight away the improvement in movement and passing options in attacking transition's. There's still issues getting the ball back but, big improvement. There may still be glaring errors but I'll keep experimenting

[YAMS]

Looks way better imo. Nice balance of roles. I would raise your LOE to at least standard though, especially with a 4-3-3. You could be conceding too much ground with a low LOE. Possibly raise the pressing as well by one notch. 

[Oli99]

OK, glad to hear it's an improvement. I'll raise the LOE as you suggest and pressing intensity. Thank you 

[YAMS]

Now you have the roles get the correct players in those positions. Far too many people build a good tactic but either play the wrong players or don't have the players for the roles. 

As an example your CMA is your runner, he needs high stamina, work rate, off the ball and if possible finishing. You need 10-15 goals a season from this role so make sure you have a suitable player there. 

[bruffell06]

1 hour ago, Oli99 said:

I've changed things based on everything I've read here and decided the best way is to keep it simple. I've done away with counter press but, kept counter attack now with regroup after losing possession. Now using a DLFs with a INFa and CMa. I noticed straight away the improvement in movement and passing options in attacking transition's. There's still issues getting the ball back but, big improvement. There may still be glaring errors but I'll keep experimenting

I'm running this exact set up atm but with the left CM as an AP, the DM as a standard DM and the RB as an IWB.

 

The thinking being that my winger stretches the pitch and they create a 3 vs 2 down that side for my CM(a) to exploit and make a run behind the full back and it does work well at times.

I've never been happy with my IF though especially as they're supposed to be my main goal threat. We struggle to get him clear openings.

I'm also on a Positive mentality also and using only 1 or 2 TI'S. It started well but has no started to fizzle out and leaves me getting very few shots off so I'm going to have to watch a match in full and see why my attacks keep breaking down. 

[YAMS]

IFA's need service, they are a fairly selfish role so if you either aren't getting the ball to them or they are having off days you need an alternate avenue of attack. I prefer IWA's to IFA's.

Here's a thought, ever tried a Treq on a wing rather than a IFA. Give it a go, you may be surprised. 

[bruffell06]

2 minutes ago, YAMS said:

IFA's need service, they are a fairly selfish role so if you either aren't getting the ball to them or they are having off days you need an alternate avenue of attack. I prefer IWA's to IFA's.

Here's a thought, ever tried a Treq on a wing rather than a IFA. Give it a go, you may be surprised. 

Yeah my thinking was that he would just my a pure goal threat with my DLF dropping off and creating space/threading him through and my AP also being able to provide him with service. 

Something obviously isn't happening so I'll have to have a proper look at it.

[YAMS]

3 minutes ago, bruffell06 said:

Yeah my thinking was that he would just my a pure goal threat with my DLF dropping off and creating space/threading him through and my AP also being able to provide him with service. 

Something obviously isn't happening so I'll have to have a proper look at it.

It can work but if you're playing your striker as a support/creative role you ideally need two alternate routes/attacking options for both the creativity & goals. An on rushing centre mid perhaps for example. Truly elite inside forwards can carry the load but I'm talking Henry/Ronaldo elite here.

[bruffell06]

8 minutes ago, YAMS said:

It can work but if you're playing your striker as a support/creative role you ideally need two alternate routes/attacking options for both the creativity & goals. An on rushing centre mid perhaps for example. Truly elite inside forwards can carry the load but I'm talking Henry/Ronaldo elite here.

Yeah I have my CM(a) as my secondary goal threat.

Like I say I'm getting very few shots away at the moment so something is obviously not happening.

When I view extended highlights too I like the positions everyone take up so it's probably not too far off clicking. 

[Oli99]

1 hour ago, YAMS said:

Now you have the roles get the correct players in those positions. Far too many people build a good tactic but either play the wrong players or don't have the players for the roles. 

As an example your CMA is your runner, he needs high stamina, work rate, off the ball and if possible finishing. You need 10-15 goals a season from this role so make sure you have a suitable player there. 

The CMa is the one role I don't really have a suitable player but, I'll deal with that at the end of the season. The other roles are ok looking at player attributes 

[YAMS]

Ok, give it a run then & have patience. Rome wasn't built in a day. 

[Oli99]

1 hour ago, bruffell06 said:

I'm running this exact set up atm but with the left CM as an AP, the DM as a standard DM and the RB as an IWB.

 

The thinking being that my winger stretches the pitch and they create a 3 vs 2 down that side for my CM(a) to exploit and make a run behind the full back and it does work well at times.

I've never been happy with my IF though especially as they're supposed to be my main goal threat. We struggle to get him clear openings.

I'm also on a Positive mentality also and using only 1 or 2 TI'S. It started well but has no started to fizzle out and leaves me getting very few shots off so I'm going to have to watch a match in full and see why my attacks keep breaking down. 

I've never had success either with a INF in FM21 but don't know what alternative role to use other than another INW? Does an AP and CMa not leave you vulnerable?

[bruffell06]

22 minutes ago, Oli99 said:

I've never had success either with a INF in FM21 but don't know what alternative role to use other than another INW? Does an AP and CMa not leave you vulnerable?

Yeah likewise.

Not really. I'm vulnerable to crosses and balls in behind but can't really say that's to do with the roles of them 2.

[rich10]

Is Zinchenko productive playing as a right winger? He's a left-footed left-back.

Good to see the changes you've made have yielded improvements in how your team attacks.

[Oli99]

1 hour ago, rich10 said:

Is Zinchenko productive playing as a right winger? He's a left-footed left-back.

Good to see the changes you've made have yielded improvements in how your team attacks.

I play him as an INW so he can cut inside on his left foot. He's not the most productive but, I don't have many other options there and I like his teamwork and determination, he's great at tracking back. I think he only has about 6 assists in 18 games.

The changes have hugely improved our attacking transitions with so many options for the player on the ball. 

[sporadicsmiles]

17 hours ago, Oli99 said:

The CMa is the one role I don't really have a suitable player but, I'll deal with that at the end of the season. The other roles are ok looking at player attributes 

I like to retrain players who are either AMC who are good as shadow strikers or strikers who are good as F9 to play as the CM(A). Assuming you can afford to have a midfielder in the team who is not going to be tremendous defensively. 

It also helps if the CM(A) has good vision and passing, because he will often be able to slide in the IF or DLF with a nice pass after getting the ball in an advanced position. 

And another tip here is if you can train your striker to play one-twos, he can often link up very nicely with the IF and CM to play them in if they pass and run forward.

[Oli99]

Great advice, thank you, I'll get DCL training one two's. I have a lack of AMC position players so probably have to buy someone 

[bruffell06]

On 01/09/2021 at 15:48, Oli99 said:

Great advice, thank you, I'll get DCL training one two's. I have a lack of AMC position players so probably have to buy someone 

. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by bruffell06

[Gdansk]

I don't know what is going on here honestly and decided to log in to try help a bit.

Generally if you play with Everton it should be possible to push for Top 6 and by 2025 should be established in Top 4 maybe challenging for the trophies with some luck. Generally I'd say you can't use one tactic in the PL and expect it to work wonders, I'd say you need at least 2 set-ups to be able to react to opponents and here that would be one system where you play against weaker and similar teams at home and one against better teams and similar teams away for example. You shouldn't start by using Regroup and Lower Line against everyone, in general lower line can be dangerous if you don't have the right players and get you destroyed by the big teams.

If you upload the save I could maybe look and develop a 4-3-3 for both situations, or I'll post some ideas tomorrow so you can see what I mean.

[Oli99]

9 hours ago, Gdansk said:

I don't know what is going on here honestly and decided to log in to try help a bit.

Generally if you play with Everton it should be possible to push for Top 6 and by 2025 should be established in Top 4 maybe challenging for the trophies with some luck. Generally I'd say you can't use one tactic in the PL and expect it to work wonders, I'd say you need at least 2 set-ups to be able to react to opponents and here that would be one system where you play against weaker and similar teams at home and one against better teams and similar teams away for example. You shouldn't start by using Regroup and Lower Line against everyone, in general lower line can be dangerous if you don't have the right players and get you destroyed by the big teams.

If you upload the save I could maybe look and develop a 4-3-3 for both situations, or I'll post some ideas tomorrow so you can see what I mean.

The first couple of seasons I was regularly in the top 7 but, things slowly went backwards and it's been mid table. We do ok in the cups until we come up against City/Utd/Liverpool or Chelsea. Normally use 4141 there with lower LOE and Cautious mentality but struggle to cause them any problems really.  Since the tactic I put up earlier I do now use standard LOE after advice on here, everything else is the same. 

[p_kk]

i'm no expert but my suggestion is that your role is not entirely compliment your tactic. If you are trying to play counter attacking football where you sit back (lower loe) and hit on the break you definitely need to go faster more direct. Need players up front and on the wing good dribbling speed and very direct with roles like IF(A), IW(A), AF, Winger(Attack). you should have 2 of those player. BWM at cm will try to win the ball back higher up i,m not sure about that but i would probably go for Box midfield or standard cm. i will try find some one from the back line or dm position who can hit long to get ball forward quickly. NCB also hit long pass but passing accuracy depending on player quality. I'm not sure about 2 WBS as they tend to dribble i might prefer roles that dribble less.

[Oli99]

I've tried to play this way but been unsuccessful, I probably didn't get it quite right. I don't think I had the right players. We're getting good performances from the new set up so I'm pleased with that

[alerosso]

2 ore fa, Oli99 ha scritto:

The first couple of seasons I was regularly in the top 7 but, things slowly went backwards and it's been mid table. We do ok in the cups until we come up against City/Utd/Liverpool or Chelsea. Normally use 4141 there with lower LOE and Cautious mentality but struggle to cause them any problems really.  Since the tactic I put up earlier I do now use standard LOE after advice on here, everything else is the same. 

In this case I think you are way too passive. Big teams will already look to dominate the game, you staying back and playing with a cautious mentality means basically handing them the match without even trying.

 

If you plan on sitting back you need to be much more aggressive with your mentality in order to play on the counter effectively. On lower mentalities your players aren't willing to take any risk so when you gain possession back they are gonna slow everything down, staying behind the ball and looking for safe plays. That's the exact opposite of what you want!

 

Try an attacking mentality or at least a positive mentality with more direct passes so that you can actually create them some trouble

Edited September 3, 2021 by alerosso

[Oli99]

OK, thank you, I'll give it  try, there's nothing to lose and that does make sense 

[Justified]

 

On 31/08/2021 at 19:33, Oli99 said:

I've changed things based on everything I've read here and decided the best way is to keep it simple. I've done away with counter press but, kept counter attack now with regroup after losing possession. Now using a DLFs with a INFa and CMa. I noticed straight away the improvement in movement and passing options in attacking transition's. There's still issues getting the ball back but, big improvement. There may still be glaring errors but I'll keep experimenting

I still think the second picture you uploaded (if that is the most current tactic you're using?) is still a mix of two different approaches of play. Seems like you're trying to think of how to defend and attack at the same time which is a pretty common mistake from FM'ers in general. How you need to think about it is if you're setting up an adventurous tactic, how do you defend within the system and vice versa with defensive tactics (IE how does your attack look so you don't become too passive). If that makes sense?

Here I see a clear-ish picture of how you want to attack and how you're moving the opposition around (although personally I would swap Tonali and Allan as a DLP on defend in the DMC strata isn't going to be too adventurous, unless you change him to a Regista/DLPsu) but the balance of duties is ok. In possession you've left everything on default so fairly wide, direct, quickish football which is ok but my personal opinion is I'd probably push DCL into an attacking duty so he pins back the opposition defence and you'll get more out of the more then balanced direct style of football. 

In transition and out of possession I start to see some conflict. Once you loose the ball you're retreating way too far back for the type of football you've set up with your roles and mentality. You won't be able to sustain any pressure on your opponents and with a positive mentality your players will take more risks, hence you could loose the ball more then normal. If you're worried about compactness you could have a high D-Line and standard LOE which'll give you the same vertical compactness but in a higher block. Bare in mind you'll have to look at the pressing to make sure you're not too passive.

Little tweaks like that might go a long way. I'm not overly familiar with what your players can do attribute and PPM-wise so I can't give any PI specific advice.

[Oli99]

12 hours ago, Justified said:

 

I still think the second picture you uploaded (if that is the most current tactic you're using?) is still a mix of two different approaches of play. Seems like you're trying to think of how to defend and attack at the same time which is a pretty common mistake from FM'ers in general. How you need to think about it is if you're setting up an adventurous tactic, how do you defend within the system and vice versa with defensive tactics (IE how does your attack look so you don't become too passive). If that makes sense?

Here I see a clear-ish picture of how you want to attack and how you're moving the opposition around (although personally I would swap Tonali and Allan as a DLP on defend in the DMC strata isn't going to be too adventurous, unless you change him to a Regista/DLPsu) but the balance of duties is ok. In possession you've left everything on default so fairly wide, direct, quickish football which is ok but my personal opinion is I'd probably push DCL into an attacking duty so he pins back the opposition defence and you'll get more out of the more then balanced direct style of football. 

In transition and out of possession I start to see some conflict. Once you loose the ball you're retreating way too far back for the type of football you've set up with your roles and mentality. You won't be able to sustain any pressure on your opponents and with a positive mentality your players will take more risks, hence you could loose the ball more then normal. If you're worried about compactness you could have a high D-Line and standard LOE which'll give you the same vertical compactness but in a higher block. Bare in mind you'll have to look at the pressing to make sure you're not too passive.

Little tweaks like that might go a long way. I'm not overly familiar with what your players can do attribute and PPM-wise so I can't give any PI specific advice.

The main issue I'm having now is how to attack in a defensive tactic. Against much better teams I normally resort to 4141 with a lower LOE. I'm finding this is effective  defensively on occasions but, blunt going forward. I don't know how to resolve this. I'm basically attempting a 1 nil smash and grab.

Since the picture, a different player plays as the DLP and I do find he gets forward to be involved surprisingly. I will try DCL on an attack duty and see what difference that makes but, I like at the moment how he's back in midfield sometimes to help get the ball back.

I've slightly increased the pressing since, based on advice here but, my central defenders aren't the quickest so when I've played a high defensive line before it's not worked. At the moment I've got standard LOE and defensive line.

[Justified]

2 hours ago, Oli99 said:

The main issue I'm having now is how to attack in a defensive tactic. Against much better teams I normally resort to 4141 with a lower LOE. I'm finding this is effective  defensively on occasions but, blunt going forward. I don't know how to resolve this. I'm basically attempting a 1 nil smash and grab.

Since the picture, a different player plays as the DLP and I do find he gets forward to be involved surprisingly. I will try DCL on an attack duty and see what difference that makes but, I like at the moment how he's back in midfield sometimes to help get the ball back.

I've slightly increased the pressing since, based on advice here but, my central defenders aren't the quickest so when I've played a high defensive line before it's not worked. At the moment I've got standard LOE and defensive line.

If you want to be a threat in a defensive system then your striker is going to have to be on an attacking duty. If he had an AMC or a strike partner then you could go another way but since he is in lone role then I'm fairly confident DCL would play the DLFat role really well. Although you like the DLFsu dropping deep, you're really going to struggle to score as by the time you get upfield the opposition would be set. You can't really have it both ways in counter system. DLFat would still drop at time but after the attack has moved upfield. In transition he'll push the D-line back, wait for support, lay off and either join in the box or drop deep.

[Oli99]

OK, I'll change DLF s to DLF attack. The system is still quite porous defensively, is there anything I can do about this or is it always going to be with three up front ?

[YAMS]

4 hours ago, Oli99 said:

OK, I'll change DLF s to DLF attack. The system is still quite porous defensively, is there anything I can do about this or is it always going to be with three up front ?

Where are you letting in your goals? Is it from wing play/channels primarily as I suspect?

[Justified]

4 hours ago, Oli99 said:

OK, I'll change DLF s to DLF attack. The system is still quite porous defensively, is there anything I can do about this or is it always going to be with three up front ?

Do you mind posting your current tactic. Feels like you've done quite a few tweaks now so I need to see it to have a better understanding. Also what type of goals are you conceding?

[Oli99]

16 hours ago, YAMS said:

Where are you letting in your goals? Is it from wing play/channels primarily as I suspect?

Generally the channels as you say but, some through the middle as well 

[Oli99]

15 hours ago, Justified said:

Do you mind posting your current tactic. Feels like you've done quite a few tweaks now so I need to see it to have a better understanding. Also what type of goals are you conceding?

                          DLFa

IW a                                   Ws

               BWM s     CMa

                        DLPd

WBs         CD       CD          FBs

Positive men, standard LOE and Def line, Counter, regroup, more urgent pressing, get stuck in. I've started a new save with Everton, so I have the original squad.