Possession as a means of creating chances (HELP)

[Maxim26]

Hello everyone!

I apologize for my English, but I hope this is somehow understandable. 

I'm not such an experienced FM player. Recently, I have been trying to create a tactic that would use POSSESSION of the ball to create a lot of chances. 

Please tell me how it is better to choose a formation for POSSESSION and what roles are better to choose for this style?

There is already such an experience. I attached a screen.

[Johnny Ace]

Have you tried that tactic out?

Looks alright to me, I'd just remove the Work Ball into Box as it's very safe  or maybe change the AP(S) to Treq(A) to get some movement in & around the box 

[Maxim26]

30 минут назад, Johnny Ace сказал:

Have you tried that tactic out?

Looks alright to me, I'd just remove the Work Ball into Box as it's very safe  or maybe change the AP(S) to Treq(A) to get some movement in & around the box 

Yes, I tried it. I am coaching the Italian national team and with this tactic we could not gain more possession than Albania (((

[Johnny Ace]

I'd take a 5-1 win over possession any day 

I honestly wouldn't worry about possession at all

[Maxim26]

23 минуты назад, Johnny Ace сказал:

I'd take a 5-1 win over possession any day 

I honestly wouldn't worry about possession at all

I just don't quite like the equal possession of the ball with Albania

[CARRERA]

38 minutes ago, Maxim26 said:

Yes, I tried it. I am coaching the Italian national team and with this tactic we could not gain more possession than Albania (((

Small teams usually build up slowly due to their technical inability. If you want the ball yourself, you need to be way more aggressive defensively. Higher mentality, much higher lines, pressing and maybe get stuck in. 

This might have an effect to your attacking play though.

Edited September 1, 2021 by CARRERA

[Johnny Ace]

17 minutes ago, Maxim26 said:

I just don't quite like the equal possession of the ball with Albania

Just go much lower tempo once you're a few goals up 

ETA: Hang on, did Albania complete 93% of their passes? What were they doing?

Edited September 1, 2021 by Johnny Ace

[RPM_01]

I'd look at changing the AF-A if you want more possession. You'll find that players tend to play long more to the AF who's constantly trying to break the line. You'll sacrifice a few chances but not loads if you try the CF-A just make sure it's the right player.

[Maxim26]

And what do you say to this?

After each such game, I just delete the tactics and that's it.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Maxim26

[Maxim26]

Tell me, what am I doing wrong?

[CARRERA]

It would be nice to actually post the screenshots with english language.

The best thing about football is that you sometimes have to accept the unexcepted. Every match is different and you can’t win them all.

So for actually judgeing how your tactics works it’s nessecary to see the results from around the last 3-5 Matches. And at least some insights whats actually going wrong in these games. 

 

[Maxim26]

3 минуты назад, CARRERA сказал:

Было бы неплохо на самом деле опубликовать скриншоты на английском языке.

Самое лучшее в футболе то, что иногда приходится мириться с исключительным. Каждый матч индивидуален, и вы не можете выиграть их все.

Так что для того, чтобы на самом деле судить о том, как работает ваша тактика, необходимо посмотреть результаты примерно за последние 3-5 матчей. И, по крайней мере, некоторые идеи о том, что на самом деле происходит не так в этих играх.

 

[Maxim26]

In general, I am ready to put up with defeats, but it seems to me that the idea is not being implemented. I want players to create triangles on each section of the field and advance with possession, but at the same time create chances. I want to feel this line between sterile possession and creating scoring chances.

[Johnny Ace]

47 minutes ago, Maxim26 said:

In general, I am ready to put up with defeats, but it seems to me that the idea is not being implemented. I want players to create triangles on each section of the field and advance with possession, but at the same time create chances. I want to feel this line between sterile possession and creating scoring chances.

That 3-0 just looks really unlucky to be honest. You had the possession & chances to win the game 

Are they forming the triangles you want?  

 

[Zemahh]

25 minutes ago, Maxim26 said:

https://content.invisioncic.com/Msigames/monthly_2021_09/image.png.64c78cd4dea1b1f1fbe1f8922b46f7cd.png

From performance standpoint:

• FBsu usually won't offer enough width for inside-cutting wide forward, I suggest FBat/WBsu instead (w/ holding CM role for defensive cover)
• Two IFs cutting inside and overcrowding AP's area could make him less effective, ideally you want your playmakers to have as much space to operate in as possible (see this thread for more)

Prom possession standpoint:

• SK, AP, IFs, and CF are all looking to Take More Risks with their passes, which isn't very possession-friendly
• Attack-duty striker is better suited for more direct systems; if you're looking to keep possession, you want him dropping deep and racking up passes, rather than standing on the last defender's shoulder and inviting through balls
• Apart from pressing instructions, you're not actually using any instructions that would emphasize your possession-oriented system

If you're looking to learn about possession football, there's two excellent threads I'd suggest:

• The Art of Possession Football
• Attacking and Possession

Hope that gives you some pointers.

[Maxim26]

10 минут назад, Zemahh сказал:

From performance standpoint:

• FBsu usually won't offer enough width for inside-cutting wide forward, I suggest FBat/WBsu instead (w/ holding CM role for defensive cover)
• Two IFs cutting inside and overcrowding AP's area could make him less effective, ideally you want your playmakers to have as much space to operate in as possible (see this thread for more)

Prom possession standpoint:

• SK, AP, IFs, and CF are all looking to Take More Risks with their passes, which isn't very possession-friendly
• Attack-duty striker is better suited for more direct systems; if you're looking to keep possession, you want him dropping deep and racking up passes, rather than standing on the last defender's shoulder and inviting through balls
• Apart from pressing instructions, you're not actually using any instructions that would emphasize your possession-oriented system

If you're looking to learn about possession football, there's two excellent threads I'd suggest:

• The Art of Possession Football
• Attacking and Possession

Hope that gives you some pointers.

I want my team to come out of defense using combination football using possession, and the purpose of this possession was to find and load a central striker who will consistently score goals. Perhaps it is worth changing the scheme to a 4-3-3 DM?

And what can you say about the ratemytactic service. Is it worth focusing on it or is it better to immerse yourself only in the gameplay?

Edited September 1, 2021 by Maxim26

[danyates8]

Ratemytactic looks nice and the theory behind it is good but I believe it leads to false expectations. A 5 star tactic doesn't mean you are going to win every game with more possession. Its a good starting base to guide you in the right direction. In my tactic I was getting more success by actually adjusting roles to something that according to ratemytactic would of left me venerable. So defo experiment with the players you have available, remember their PPMs can have a drastic action on your tactic. EG a full back on support but has get forward as much as possible could easily lead you to issues if your winger/inside forward in front of him has poor tracking back capabilities, or you haven't got adequate cover in midfield.

I have had most success with this formation below, its considered control possession according to the board vision. 

https://gyazo.com/fb9cb23286a28b359e4733ff0a5575c8

 

[zabyl]

4 saat önce, Maxim26 said:

Tell me, what am I doing wrong?

Firstly, stay calm and don't throw the towel. Higher possession does not mean influential football every time. Also there is no rule like "many support roles can create influential possession football".

ratemytactic is a fine site for learning "which TI affects what" and "which TI is coherent with which". That's it. Nothing more. It can give your fully balanced 4-2-3-1 system a 5 star but it doesn't work like that in FM. It is just basics. There is no such rule like "my formation is 5 star and it must be successful". The game is not played without an opposition. The opposition has a formation and a style with advantages and disadvantages too. 

7 players on support, 1 striker on attack. How can this team use the ball effectively without enough unpredictability? It must be easy to defend for the ai after a few games.

 

Please don't trust to somebody's website which gives you a 5 star after you set things. Football is not something like that. Football is a reactive and flexible sport. For every "1"s there is also "0"s. 

I suggest you to try to experiment the game with watching, seeing an issue and than applying a change.

[alerosso]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you basically want to play tiki-taka. If that's the case then I think a 433 with a DM and a striker that drops a little deeper would suit better what you are trying to do.

Personally I would look to

- switch the FBs to either WBs or IWBs

- add in possession TIs: shorter/much shorter passing, work the ball into the box and possibly lower tempo and dribble less too

- add in transition TI: roll it out

Also keep in mind you can't expect to see Kean play like prime Messi or Neymar

Edited September 1, 2021 by alerosso

[Prolix]

11 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

ETA: Hang on, did Albania complete 93% of their passes? What were they doing?