FM20 - Why 4-2-3-1 is so effective compared to other tactics?

[Stobby84]

Hi all,

I just have a curiosity which is stated in the title of the topic. I am playing with a save with a team of the lower belgian division (usg) and, since budget is small and players attributes are limited in skills I tested several mostly defensive tactics. It worked quite well and results have been even slightly above expectations.. then, I decided (as a test) to switch to the classic 4-2-3-1 in a large version and my team has become a top team even if players were really average !

I am astonished since I tested the same choice on another save (with an average team) and I immediately got good results.

So my suspect is that the match engine has the tendency to reward attacking/offensive styles since, in lower leagues with average teams, it looks more rewarding to attack even against a stronger team than building a good defensive strategy .

Have you had different experiences ?

 

Have a good day!

[MowVu]

i find this tactic to be very overpowered. I'm doing a man utd save right now with it.

to sign a few wonderkids and save some up front costs, i offered A LOT of 'win champs lg bonus within 3 years' clauses in the negotiating phase.

i only went and won the champs lg that season lol. i paid out more in bonuses than what i won in prize money. 

4-2-3-1 is a beast

5 hours ago, Stobby84 said:

Hi all,

I just have a curiosity which is stated in the title of the topic. I am playing with a save with a team of the lower belgian division (usg) and, since budget is small and players attributes are limited in skills I tested several mostly defensive tactics. It worked quite well and results have been even slightly above expectations.. then, I decided (as a test) to switch to the classic 4-2-3-1 in a large version and my team has become a top team even if players were really average !

I am astonished since I tested the same choice on another save (with an average team) and I immediately got good results.

So my suspect is that the match engine has the tendency to reward attacking/offensive styles since, in lower leagues with average teams, it looks more rewarding to attack even against a stronger team than building a good defensive strategy .

Have you had different experiences ?

 

Have a good day!

 

[DBSC]

Could you post an example of your tactic? I feel like i keep going to a form of 4-1-2-2-1 dm/wide. Playing with lower league teams I've tried the 4-2-3-1 and let in a ton of goals so end up switching back to a tactic with a DM. It seems difficult to get consistent results with a lesser team with other tactics

[Overmars]

If you like the 4-2-3-1 in FM20 then you should give a 4-4-2 a try. Things I have observed through lots of FM20 seasons and tactic testing:

1. Two striker formations provide huge benefits within the game mechanics (resistance to individual player scoring slumps being a key benefit).
2. Formations with four wide players are great at taking advantage of the match engine's tendency to push most of the action out wide.
3. Playing wingers as ML/MR instead of AML/AMR provides similar offensive value and defends better.
4. Wingers in any role end up being some of the leading tacklers on your team, especially when using pressing tactics.
5. Three at the back is usually just as defensively solid as four at the back formations, but four at the back formations facilitate stronger attacking play and therefore deliver better results.
6. Inverted wingbacks work extremely well, especially with conventional wingers ahead of them.
7. A DLP in the DMC or MC spot is super-effective at organizing a team and is usually a better choice than an AP in the AMC spot.
8. Having a strong corner and free kick taker provides huge amounts of assists, especially if playing tactics that generate lots of corners.
9. Aggressive pressing is almost always the best option, especially in combination with a positive or attacking mentality.

 

[Tsuru]

36 minutos atrás, Overmars disse:

If you like the 4-2-3-1 in FM20 then you should give a 4-4-2 a try. Things I have observed through lots of FM20 seasons and tactic testing:

1. Two striker formations provide huge benefits within the game mechanics (resistance to individual player scoring slumps being a key benefit).
2. Formations with four wide players are great at taking advantage of the match engine's tendency to push most of the action out wide.
3. Playing wingers as ML/MR instead of AML/AMR provides similar offensive value and defends better.
4. Wingers in any role end up being some of the leading tacklers on your team, especially when using pressing tactics.
5. Three at the back is usually just as defensively solid as four at the back formations, but four at the back formations facilitate stronger attacking play and therefore deliver better results.
6. Inverted wingbacks work extremely well, especially with conventional wingers ahead of them.
7. A DLP in the DMC or MC spot is super-effective at organizing a team and is usually a better choice than an AP in the AMC spot.
8. Having a strong corner and free kick taker provides huge amounts of assists, especially if playing tactics that generate lots of corners.
9. Aggressive pressing is almost always the best option, especially in combination with a positive or attacking mentality.

 

Totally agree, the 4-4-2 is one of the best formations in the game: simple, versatile and effective, you can play it in many different ways. And with the use of some simple TIs it is very easy to mitigate its main weak points. 

[Dj-Voodoo]

23 hours ago, Overmars said:

If you like the 4-2-3-1 in FM20 then you should give a 4-4-2 a try. Things I have observed through lots of FM20 seasons and tactic testing:

1. Two striker formations provide huge benefits within the game mechanics (resistance to individual player scoring slumps being a key benefit).
2. Formations with four wide players are great at taking advantage of the match engine's tendency to push most of the action out wide.
3. Playing wingers as ML/MR instead of AML/AMR provides similar offensive value and defends better.
4. Wingers in any role end up being some of the leading tacklers on your team, especially when using pressing tactics.
5. Three at the back is usually just as defensively solid as four at the back formations, but four at the back formations facilitate stronger attacking play and therefore deliver better results.
6. Inverted wingbacks work extremely well, especially with conventional wingers ahead of them.
7. A DLP in the DMC or MC spot is super-effective at organizing a team and is usually a better choice than an AP in the AMC spot.
8. Having a strong corner and free kick taker provides huge amounts of assists, especially if playing tactics that generate lots of corners.
9. Aggressive pressing is almost always the best option, especially in combination with a positive or attacking mentality.

 

Some responses:

1. Yes, two strikers mitigates the risk of one turning into a dead fish

2. It's like reality -- it's easier to play out wide than in the thick of things (particularly where there's a DM)

3. I somewhat disagree that ML/MR offers the same as AML/AMR, it depends on tempo and philosophy. I've gotten plenty of goals from my ML/MR (Jarrod Bowen, take a bow) but it's usually been on the counter, whereas I've had so much more success with a AML/AMR in a possession tactic.

4. Surely

5. I tend to think three-man backlines are nearly impossible to get right with the FM match-engine. 

6. Yes IWBs are quite interesting, I'm experimenting with them now

7. Oh absolutely -- this is what prompted me to respond. In terms of visible effectiveness and in typical usage, DLPs>> APs

8. Sure but can get a bit exploit-y, so I try not to favour it too much when I'm using a strong side

9. I disagree, I've had better success with a 4-4-2 with slightly lower pressing and a more compact block. That said, I've only won two domestic cups in six years with Hertha Berlin and missed the League by a few points a few times, maybe it's time to get a bit more aggressive.

 

[Matt_1979]

4-2-3-1 IS overpowered if using it gegenpress style with the right kind of players. However, an formation even more overpowered is the 4-3-3 (4-1-2-2-1).... the game's too easy using that,. 

[zabyl]

2 saat önce, Matt_1979 said:

4-2-3-1 IS overpowered if using it gegenpress style with the right kind of players.

4-2-3-1 is not overpowered, it is just more suited to high pressing attacking football with its huge numbers on advanced positions. 

 

2 saat önce, Matt_1979 said:

However, an formation even more overpowered is the 4-3-3 (4-1-2-2-1)

4-3-3 is a hybrid formation and it can evolve to different shapes like 4-2-3-1, 3-5-2, 5-3-2, 3-4-3, 4-3-1-2, 4-4-2 diamond, 2-3-5, 3-2-5. Thus, it is easier to fit opposition's formation with just changing roles & duties. 

 

2 saat önce, Matt_1979 said:

the game's too easy using that,. 

It's not game's easiness as I explained. It is 4-3-3's fluidity and potential.

[Matt_1979]

3 minutes ago, zabyl said:

4-2-3-1 is not overpowered, it is just more suited to high pressing attacking football with its huge numbers on advanced positions. 

 

4-3-3 is a hybrid formation and it can evolve to different shapes like 4-2-3-1, 3-5-2, 5-3-2, 3-4-3, 4-3-1-2, 4-4-2 diamond, 2-3-5, 3-2-5. Thus, it is easier to fit opposition's formation with just changing roles & duties. 

 

It's not game's easiness as I explained. It is 4-3-3's fluidity and potential.

As I said…. If you’re using 4-2-3-1 with the right players for full on pressing it’s overpowered. 

If you’re using it normally it can be hard to get working well. 

Hence, you see a lot of people dominating with the 4-2-3-1 Gegenpress which is probably downloaded from one of these sites. 

[zabyl]

7 dakika önce, Matt_1979 said:

As I said…. If you’re using 4-2-3-1 with the right players for full on pressing it’s overpowered. 

If you’re using it normally it can be hard to get working well. 

Hence, you see a lot of people dominating with the 4-2-3-1 Gegenpress which is probably downloaded from one of these sites.

I don't disagree with this at least if the opposition is AI. When you use those so-called overpowered tactics against human players, they can counter them 

[Andrew Marines]

Yeah, attacking tactics are actually OP against AI. That just because AI tends to play a lil more defensive and make some mistakes. You can achieve results with balanced tactics, not gegenpress tactics too but that's more difficult. Against other people, 4231 is not always the answer. I  play a lot of online on FM20 and seems like who win uses a 442 or 433 cause you can't take advantage of the high pressing of the 4231 if the opponent is using a high tempo, or standard passing tactic. If you wanna play the real football manager, play online where you can actually counter any type of tactics