Is this too adventurous ?

[Oli99]

Hi, is this tactic too optimistic, I'm getting the movement I want with plenty of support and movement in the final third but, conceding far too many goals, I'm considering a BWM instead of an DLP but, I want to keep a playmaker. Would a APM work instead of the CMa ? I would lose his late runs into the box though which is  where a lot of my goals and best chances come from. Is there other changes that obviously need making ?

[Oli99]

I normally play a high LOE, this was a tactic against a far stronger team that was a 4141 before with the AMR as a winger not INW 

[WhyMe]

If you normally play with a high LOE and standard DL then I am guessing your defence is getting stretched because roles and duties wise you are not overly attacking , in fact this is a relatively conservative setup.  I would give it a try on high DL and High LOE or standard/standard.  You could also look to compress the space and have LOE one notch lower than DL, but that might be too big a change for now.  The other possibility is that your player in the DLP role doesn't have decent defensive stats in which case it could also be a personnel problem. 

[sporadicsmiles]

Well, the tactic is quite conservative overall anyway, especially with the defence set up as it is. As noted, the LOE could just be giving too much space in front of your defence for opposition teams to take advantage of. Try raising the LOE first, to see if it helps with defending. Or better work out how you are conceding most of your goals and let us know, so we can see if this guy feeling is correct or not. 

You may also want to think about what you do when you lose the ball. If you are seeing you are getting hit quickly by teams, it may be worthwhile asking players to get back to position. If you are seeing that you are too passive in countering buildups, set your advanced players to press more. 

Then attacking wise I guess it works reasonably well. I'd be tempted to have an attacking fullback on the side with the DLP when you feel you are able to get away with it (home against weaker sides). This will help create more space centrally at best, and at worst will force an opposition winger to track back.

[HUMBL3B33]

I often see people having great tactics questioning their choices because they either don’t score a lot of goals or they concede many.

 

Try and understand this. Your choice of roles and duties affect how you move on the pitch. It my impact the outcome indirectly but i would say there are many more culprits at large. 
 

I hope you have already gone through basic thing’s like morale and fitness that might affect your games much more directly than your role. 
 

Once you’re done with that you move ahead with the tactic at hand. Everything seems to be good. Nothing’s overly aggressive, as pointed out by others. Your setup is quite conservative with no duties aggressively trying to win the ball and it is because of that you are allowing your opposition too much time on the ball. As a result they are able to move the ball in your third without any problem.

On top of that you are not compact and hence you have spaces between your lines. Which at large allows your opponent even more space to work with and ping dangerous passes. 
 

To avoid this you would have to play a combined 11 with great ability to intercept the ball. Which is a very hard task at the very least. Basically leaving you no other way to overshoot and overscore your opponents to win the match. 
 

A way to remedy this is to adjust your lines in such a way that it creates overlaps between the defending zones of each individual i.e in my opinion for this tactic do not go past the standard defensive line as it will allow too much space and time to your opponent wingers either to cut in or simply ping an early cross. On top of it, you shouldn’t allow the team to go past standard LOE. Ideally hitting them on counter with either of the lower or lowest LOE.
 

Or maybe you can push high and camp in the opposition third with both LOE and DL on the higher side. Keep in mind you are prone to counter attacks at this moment. However, i clear DM should provide your team some time to get back in time. 
 

As explained earlier. Conceding too many goals is the problem look for the cause of it. 

[Oli99]

15 hours ago, WhyMe said:

If you normally play with a high LOE and standard DL then I am guessing your defence is getting stretched because roles and duties wise you are not overly attacking , in fact this is a relatively conservative setup.  I would give it a try on high DL and High LOE or standard/standard.  You could also look to compress the space and have LOE one notch lower than DL, but that might be too big a change for now.  The other possibility is that your player in the DLP role doesn't have decent defensive stats in which case it could also be a personnel problem. 

I've played a lot of the matches with high def line and standard LOE but, had the same issues. We seem to just get overrun even against similar team's. There's some games we have the higher Xg but the opposition always look like scoring. Allan plays Def Mid who has excellent defensive stats but, perhaps the DLP ahead doesn't offer enough defensively. If I use a BWM there instead though, won't that effect the possession game I'm attempting?

[Oli99]

15 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

Well, the tactic is quite conservative overall anyway, especially with the defence set up as it is. As noted, the LOE could just be giving too much space in front of your defence for opposition teams to take advantage of. Try raising the LOE first, to see if it helps with defending. Or better work out how you are conceding most of your goals and let us know, so we can see if this guy feeling is correct or not. 

You may also want to think about what you do when you lose the ball. If you are seeing you are getting hit quickly by teams, it may be worthwhile asking players to get back to position. If you are seeing that you are too passive in countering buildups, set your advanced players to press more. 

Then attacking wise I guess it works reasonably well. I'd be tempted to have an attacking fullback on the side with the DLP when you feel you are able to get away with it (home against weaker sides). This will help create more space centrally at best, and at worst will force an opposition winger to track back.

What we do when we lose the ball seems to be the biggest issue, which is strange because team pressing is set quite high. If Digne is fit he will always play as a WBs, and that adds a great deal attacking wise 

[Johnny Ace]

Probably because you're playing Andy Lonergan in nets 

[Oli99]

2 hours ago, HUMBL3B33 said:

I often see people having great tactics questioning their choices because they either don’t score a lot of goals or they concede many.

 

Try and understand this. Your choice of roles and duties affect how you move on the pitch. It my impact the outcome indirectly but i would say there are many more culprits at large. 
 

I hope you have already gone through basic thing’s like morale and fitness that might affect your games much more directly than your role. 
 

Once you’re done with that you move ahead with the tactic at hand. Everything seems to be good. Nothing’s overly aggressive, as pointed out by others. Your setup is quite conservative with no duties aggressively trying to win the ball and it is because of that you are allowing your opposition too much time on the ball. As a result they are able to move the ball in your third without any problem.

On top of that you are not compact and hence you have spaces between your lines. Which at large allows your opponent even more space to work with and ping dangerous passes. 
 

To avoid this you would have to play a combined 11 with great ability to intercept the ball. Which is a very hard task at the very least. Basically leaving you no other way to overshoot and overscore your opponents to win the match. 
 

A way to remedy this is to adjust your lines in such a way that it creates overlaps between the defending zones of each individual i.e in my opinion for this tactic do not go past the standard defensive line as it will allow too much space and time to your opponent wingers either to cut in or simply ping an early cross. On top of it, you shouldn’t allow the team to go past standard LOE. Ideally hitting them on counter with either of the lower or lowest LOE.
 

Or maybe you can push high and camp in the opposition third with both LOE and DL on the higher side. Keep in mind you are prone to counter attacks at this moment. However, i clear DM should provide your team some time to get back in time. 
 

As explained earlier. Conceding too many goals is the problem look for the cause of it. 

Team morale seems to be ok and fitness but, we're getting a huge number of injuries so it's never the same team going out. I use standard def line with lower LOE against better teams plus a 4141, this was effective last season but, we're getting well beaten this time by all of them. The players I play at AML and AMR offer nothing when further back in a 4141.

[Oli99]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Probably because you're playing Andy Lonergan in nets 

The two others got injured within a week of each other 

[Johnny Ace]

3 minutes ago, Oli99 said:

The two others got injured within a week of each other 

That's unlucky I was just joking but your set-up looks good.

I think you could afford to have both fullbacks on WB(S) or FB(A) they should be safe going forward with your DM, with both wide attackers cutting, you can get both forward to provide width. Maybe one of your wide attackers to IF(S or A). I think sometimes in this game you get punished for not being attacking enough if you know what I mean, like offense is the best defence so it's always about finding the balance 

[Oli99]

20 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

That's unlucky I was just joking but your set-up looks good.

I think you could afford to have both fullbacks on WB(S) or FB(A) they should be safe going forward with your DM, with both wide attackers cutting, you can get both forward to provide width. Maybe one of your wide attackers to IF(S or A). I think sometimes in this game you get punished for not being attacking enough if you know what I mean, like offense is the best defence so it's always about finding the balance 

That's ok  There's at least two players getting injured every week which is annoying. When everyone's fit that is pretty much the set up I use with two WBs and  the AML as either INWa or INFa. 

[HUMBL3B33]

 

On 10/10/2021 at 14:53, Oli99 said:

Team morale seems to be ok and fitness but, we're getting a huge number of injuries so it's never the same team going out. I use standard def line with lower LOE against better teams plus a 4141, this was effective last season but, we're getting well beaten this time by all of them. The players I play at AML and AMR offer nothing when further back in a 4141.

Watch the match on full match or comprehensive highlights and notice if you’re loosing the ball too often or they are able to play through your defence.
 

If you’re loosing ball too often then play with your passing directness, tempo, attacking width and mentality. Adjust them according to your opponent. 
 

If you feel like you can not win the ball back at all and the opposition team just completes every transition they come to attack you and end up having a shot on goal. Maybe you can adjust the off the ball instructions a little. 
 

But before doing anything make sure you know what are your strengths and weaknesses in both attacking and defending.

For example your current setup looks like your striker would often look to drop a little. And all the support duties tells me that you are trying to play short passing around that striker to play tiki taka sort of a system. So in that case, your passing, off the ball, anticipation, decisions, and finally vision become immensely important. You have to have a brilliant team in these respective departments to move past the opposition defence. 
 

On the other hand you can have a long ball or direct counter attacking setup which either requires you to play log balls and have fast runners running after that ball. Or have a strong target man to hold it and play others in. These are obviously the most used way to play such methods but not necessarily the only way. 
 

Now similarly you can go into the team comparison screen and see exactly what are you good at and play according to that. Do this for both attack and defence. 

[Robson 07]

On 09/10/2021 at 11:02, Oli99 said:

Hi, is this tactic too optimistic, I'm getting the movement I want with plenty of support and movement in the final third but, conceding far too many goals, I'm considering a BWM instead of an DLP but, I want to keep a playmaker. Would a APM work instead of the CMa ? I would lose his late runs into the box though which is  where a lot of my goals and best chances come from. Is there other changes that obviously need making ?

I would say it was too passive or non-descript, not optimistic.  Get some tough roles into the team through PI's and use a ball winner.  Earn the right to play.

Personally I'm not keen on both wingers stopping to check the ball on to the inside.  Inside forward I think Marcus Rashford but inverted winger I think Marc Albrighton .

Team instructions are a bit sparse and roles like CM, FB and even DM are all a bit bland without much defined purpose.

28 goals conceded is a worrying sign, make changes or be very wary about sticking with this tactic.

[Oli99]

16 hours ago, HUMBL3B33 said:

 

Watch the match on full match or comprehensive highlights and notice if you’re loosing the ball too often or they are able to play through your defence.
 

If you’re loosing ball too often then play with your passing directness, tempo, attacking width and mentality. Adjust them according to your opponent. 
 

If you feel like you can not win the ball back at all and the opposition team just completes every transition they come to attack you and end up having a shot on goal. Maybe you can adjust the off the ball instructions a little. 
 

But before doing anything make sure you know what are your strengths and weaknesses in both attacking and defending.

For example your current setup looks like your striker would often look to drop a little. And all the support duties tells me that you are trying to play short passing around that striker to play tiki taka sort of a system. So in that case, your passing, off the ball, anticipation, decisions, and finally vision become immensely important. You have to have a brilliant team in these respective departments to move past the opposition defence. 
 

On the other hand you can have a long ball or direct counter attacking setup which either requires you to play log balls and have fast runners running after that ball. Or have a strong target man to hold it and play others in. These are obviously the most used way to play such methods but not necessarily the only way. 
 

Now similarly you can go into the team comparison screen and see exactly what are you good at and play according to that. Do this for both attack and defence. 

I watch every game on comprehensive and have noticed we do seem to lose the ball cheaply sometimes but, the biggest issue is that the opposition do seem to be able to play right through us. Passing directness and tempo are both balanced along with tempo plus the pressing is slightly higher and o regularly ask them to get stuck in. Perhaps as you say there's not enough players with the right defensive attributes? I will check the team comparisons to see which style would suit the team more. Perhaps the passing game I'm attempting isn't suitable 

[Oli99]

12 hours ago, Robson 07 said:

I would say it was too passive or non-descript, not optimistic.  Get some tough roles into the team through PI's and use a ball winner.  Earn the right to play.

Personally I'm not keen on both wingers stopping to check the ball on to the inside.  Inside forward I think Marcus Rashford but inverted winger I think Marc Albrighton .

Team instructions are a bit sparse and roles like CM, FB and even DM are all a bit bland without much defined purpose.

28 goals conceded is a worrying sign, make changes or be very wary about sticking with this tactic.

Since the upload, I've swapped the DLF for a BWM which seems to have helped things defensively. I've also changed the AMR to a normal winger. In tougher fixtures the DM could become an anchor or half back ?

[Oli99]

Just now, Oli99 said:

Since the upload, I've swapped the DLF for a BWM which seems to have helped things defensively. I've also changed the AMR to a normal winger. In tougher fixtures the DM could become an anchor or half back ?

Sorry the playmaker to BWM

[VinceLombardi]

10 hours ago, Oli99 said:

the biggest issue is that the opposition do seem to be able to play right through us. 

You have identified the problem, but you need to dive a little deeper.

How do they "play right through us"?

Are they getting free runs through the middle? Up the wings?

Are they passing around you? Or running through you?

How are they getting the ball to the scorers? Crosses? Long balls over the top? Through balls?

Is there a specific location where they are always getting through? Or is this a more universal problem?

How many times is it happening in a match?

What kind of chances is it creating? Are these shots from the middle, around the penalty spot? Shots from the edge or around the box? Headers?

[Oli99]

12 hours ago, VinceLombardi said:

You have identified the problem, but you need to dive a little deeper.

How do they "play right through us"?

Are they getting free runs through the middle? Up the wings?

Are they passing around you? Or running through you?

How are they getting the ball to the scorers? Crosses? Long balls over the top? Through balls?

Is there a specific location where they are always getting through? Or is this a more universal problem?

How many times is it happening in a match?

What kind of chances is it creating? Are these shots from the middle, around the penalty spot? Shots from the edge or around the box? Headers?

OK, I need to watch the game carefully to identify this but,in our last game the issue was that they were passing round us and although my players got close to them, there was no tackle or manoeuvring them off the ball. Noticeable over half the goals we concede are from through balls in the middle. We regularly play a high defensive line which could explain why although I do move them back against pacey attackers. Is there anything that can be done about this?

[VinceLombardi]

57 minutes ago, Oli99 said:

OK, I need to watch the game carefully to identify this but,in our last game the issue was that they were passing round us and although my players got close to them, there was no tackle or manoeuvring them off the ball. Noticeable over half the goals we concede are from through balls in the middle. We regularly play a high defensive line which could explain why although I do move them back against pacey attackers. Is there anything that can be done about this?

Definitely going to need to watch a few games and diagnose the issues, because, on paper, your formation/tactic looks pretty balanced. No glaringly obvious issues which is causing the defensive woes.

 

[Oli99]

1 hour ago, VinceLombardi said:

Definitely going to need to watch a few games and diagnose the issues, because, on paper, your formation/tactic looks pretty balanced. No glaringly obvious issues which is causing the defensive woes.

 

What's strange is I played exactly the same tactic but, with different personal last season and had no problems defensively. A big difference this season though has been the number of injuries making it impossible to put the same team out 

[Johnny Ace]

On 13/10/2021 at 09:59, Oli99 said:

OK, I need to watch the game carefully to identify this but,in our last game the issue was that they were passing round us and although my players got close to them, there was no tackle or manoeuvring them off the ball. Noticeable over half the goals we concede are from through balls in the middle. We regularly play a high defensive line which could explain why although I do move them back against pacey attackers. Is there anything that can be done about this?

That's the risk with a higher line. Players with high mentals can see the long ball coming & deal with it so it's never a problem for them, so try & keep track in match, see if a particular defender is letting them through. The other cause is to look at is who's playing these passes, look for the roles that play risky passes or players with the "tries killer ball" PPI, it could be you need to snuff those guys out so they don't have the time to play these balls   

[Oli99]

I've abandoned the high line and now playing a standard line with lower LOE but without counter instruction. It seems to be safer defensively. The players are still patient with the ball looking for openings but  when the counter presents itself, they seem to make use of that as well