[FM22] Arsenal F.C. - Trusting the process?

[hasdgfas]

Finished with season 1. How did it end up? Painfully.

Really poor cup runs, and losing the title on goal difference. It was a really good second half of the season, right up until the end.

Auba had 32 goals, with the next top scorer hitting 23. However, he got injured right before the Everton match and was out for the last 3 matches of the season. Probably didn't deserve a point at Everton, but definitely deserved one against City, so it hurt a lot. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by hasdgfas

[backpocket]

Season 3 updates: Finished 3rd after being second most of the season, after being hammered 5-2 by Liverpool on the final day. Top 4 is getting tighter by the day, so now besides Liverpool we're just fighting to be the best of the rest.

But we managed to somehow win the Champions League, beating PSG 2-0!! The match wasn't good for my heart as we went up 1-0 from a Saka goal, who then decided to get a red card just before half time. It was nervy but we were actually comfortable overall despite being down to 10 men, and Mikel Merino added another from a corner to make it a safe 2-0. 

To make it sweeter, we beat PSG after Odegaard left for them. He forced a release clause of 73 mil during contract renewal the previous season, and PSG jumped on it in January. As a replacement we bought Ilaix Moriba for 80 mil and changed to a 433 after using 4231 for 2.5 seasons. He still needs some time to adapt as he hasn't set the world alight, but he's only 21 and still has room to grow.

On the way there we beat the game's final boss, Liverpool, our first win in 10 tries. No one beats Arsenal ten times in a row! 

Honestly Arsenal's core is strong as is, as we managed to win the FA cup 1st season, league and Carling Cup in the 2nd season and the CL 3rd season. In fact, 7 of the original players are in my starting 11 for the CL final win.

Some of my youth players are starting to develop well, though definitely slower than previous versions of FM, so I might integrate them 2-3 seasons later. For the next few years we'll likely just be fighting for top 4 as every other team have spent big, so we're just looking to get some cup wins and be competitive in the league. 

[backpocket]

On 19/11/2021 at 08:44, hasdgfas said:

Finished with season 1. How did it end up? Painfully.

Really poor cup runs, and losing the title on goal difference. It was a really good second half of the season, right up until the end.

Auba had 32 goals, with the next top scorer hitting 23. However, he got injured right before the Everton match and was out for the last 3 matches of the season. Probably didn't deserve a point at Everton, but definitely deserved one against City, so it hurt a lot. 

How do you guys fare so well against Liverpool? I just get smashed by them every game.

[hasdgfas]

11 hours ago, backpocket said:

How do you guys fare so well against Liverpool? I just get smashed by them every game.

I turn down my mentality a little bit, and at home I use a formation with 2 DMs. Away it was all Ramsdale and I should have lost by 3-4, but he kept it to 1.

[Ragingsheep]

How much money did you guys get in the winter transfer window in the first season (starting transfer window disabled)? My board only offered me £10m which makes it hard to buy a striker with.

[backpocket]

9 hours ago, Ragingsheep said:

How much money did you guys get in the winter transfer window in the first season (starting transfer window disabled)? My board only offered me £10m which makes it hard to buy a striker with.

Yup I got 10 million too. But I convinced the board to buy Goncalo Ramos for 14m - in case you don't know, there's an option to ask the board to negotiate for you.

[Ragingsheep]

4 hours ago, backpocket said:

Yup I got 10 million too. But I convinced the board to buy Goncalo Ramos for 14m - in case you don't know, there's an option to ask the board to negotiate for you.

Yeah ended up doing that for Isak. In past FMs, they just gave me the extra cash.

[hasdgfas]

Dusan Vlahovic is unfair.

 

[Sean3h]

The name of my assistant manager is giving me some fantastic headlines 

[Sysiphus]

I won't play as Arsenal in this edition, as I only did an Arsenal save on FM21 and don't want to repeat that. However, it's grabbing my attention that in every save I make (and that I see from others) not playing as Arsenal, Martinelli is a great goalscorer from the day off, scoring above 20 league goals almost every year. It's interesting as I wouldn't have thought that the AI would play him almost as a starting striker from day 1. Is anyone here using him as a striker and having good success? In FM21 he didn't develop too much but he looks better this year, even though last year wasn't too good for him in real life.

[itamarled]

On 25/11/2021 at 16:36, Sysiphus said:

I won't play as Arsenal in this edition, as I only did an Arsenal save on FM21 and don't want to repeat that. However, it's grabbing my attention that in every save I make (and that I see from others) not playing as Arsenal, Martinelli is a great goalscorer from the day off, scoring above 20 league goals almost every year. It's interesting as I wouldn't have thought that the AI would play him almost as a starting striker from day 1. Is anyone here using him as a striker and having good success? In FM21 he didn't develop too much but he looks better this year, even though last year wasn't too good for him in real life.

shame, I was looking forward for your yearly save with arsenal.

martineli was avarge for me, didn't develope as I expected

[kevinb41]

I won league/FAcup double in my first season at Arsenal, signed Halland second season and am currently top with a record of 21-1-1, but I just can't enjoy it because inside forwards don't play very well on this version for me. And that's where all Arsenals young talent is. centre mids don't play very well either. The positions which get highest ratings are the striker, the wing backs and whoever is on set pieces.

Edited November 26, 2021 by kevinb41

[_mxrky]

I've been doing some further testing on fm21 regarding arteta's tactics and i've come up with two variations:

His 316 shape (most refer to it as 433 but formations are fluid)  with odegaard as  the number 8 in a mezzala role (could also use roaming playmaker but then change role of dm to a normal dm-d):

 

I reckon we probably play on balanced or positive mentality, but i use attacking because it's the best way to get the high press within a 442 on fm imo. Balanced and positive its very hard to achieve a good press within a 442, although this may have changed in fm22.

Player instructions: 

• fb-d sit narrower hold position
• lcb - stay wider
• wb-a stay wider
• w - roam from position, mark oppositon dr + (cut inside ppm to replicate inverted winger movement whilst not actually being in the half space due to mezzala being that space)
• Iw-a - stay wider, mark oppositon lw
• f9-a - more urgent pressing, roam form position, move into channels

I press via opposition instructions (pressing always on dr, dl and their wingers, and dm when against 4141). But note their is pressing due to my attacking mentality

The usual 325 with the double pivot (cm is on hold position):

 

Player instructions are the same as above 

We still defend off the ball in a 442 shape in both systems as its best way to block space.

If anyone wants to give these a try on fm22 let me know how you get on. 

Main weakness is against 5 atb formations, which up until recently has also been arteta's struggle. He's found a way against aston villa, leicester to change our pressing structure to be more effective, but because pressing structure is limited vs 5 atb on fm you may have to match their formation or use a 433 to press their cbs)

 

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by _mxrky
removed pic

[hasdgfas]

Finished the League in Season 2.

Another season which nearly gave me a heart attack, after a huge lead early. But between a 2-month Vlahovic injury and then the mid-season World Cup break, I lost all my momentum. Vlahovic had 17 goals in 8 League appearances, and then 8 in his final 21 league appearances of the season. Really frustrating as nothing changed besides the long break due to injuries and WC.

 

I've still got an FA Cup Final against Liverpool, but getting the League is a huge monkey off my back.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

I must say, I am loving this Arsenal squad. Saka and Smith Rowe are electric

[Cam NBH]

That first gif has an ESR third man run, fm meets real life 

[RogerC]

4 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

I must say, I am loving this Arsenal squad. Saka and Smith Rowe are electric

What PRD do the front 3 have? Looks great.

[oze07]

16 hours ago, hasdgfas said:

Finished the League in Season 2.

Another season which nearly gave me a heart attack, after a huge lead early. But between a 2-month Vlahovic injury and then the mid-season World Cup break, I lost all my momentum. Vlahovic had 17 goals in 8 League appearances, and then 8 in his final 21 league appearances of the season. Really frustrating as nothing changed besides the long break due to injuries and WC.

 

I've still got an FA Cup Final against Liverpool, but getting the League is a huge monkey off my back.

Great stuff. Ive just started an arsenal save, but struggling to find the right tactic. tika taka, gegenpress? im rubbish with tactics. im swaying towards 4231 but unsure of the 2 midfield roles?

[hasdgfas]

11 minutes ago, oze07 said:

Great stuff. Ive just started an arsenal save, but struggling to find the right tactic. tika taka, gegenpress? im rubbish with tactics. im swaying towards 4231 but unsure of the 2 midfield roles?

I'm playing a 4-2-3-1 gegenpress, but the 2 are pushed back to DMs because I love running a Segundo Volante: 

[oze07]

16 minutes ago, hasdgfas said:

I'm playing a 4-2-3-1 gegenpress, but the 2 are pushed back to DMs because I love running a Segundo Volante: 

partey as a segundo volante? im always looking for a vieira type player for arsenal as he was a legend. 

[hasdgfas]

8 minutes ago, oze07 said:

partey as a segundo volante? im always looking for a vieira type player for arsenal as he was a legend.

Partey can do a good job in either DM role depending on his partner. If it's Kamara or Bentancur, Partey will play SV. If it's Guendouzi or Lokonga(or sometimes even Patino), Partey slides over to the HB role.

[oze07]

45 minutes ago, hasdgfas said:

Partey can do a good job in either DM role depending on his partner. If it's Kamara or Bentancur, Partey will play SV. If it's Guendouzi or Lokonga(or sometimes even Patino), Partey slides over to the HB role.

think i will stick with 4231 and hope for the best! im looking at bryan cristante to sit along partey. 

[Tommo_]

18 hours ago, RogerC said:

What PRD do the front 3 have? Looks great.

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! can confirm but looking at the goals I expect it's similar to this. Maybe Ødegaard is on support duty with Saka on Attack duty but similar non the less. This is what I used on the BETA with Arsenal.  

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

1 hour ago, Tommo_ said:

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! can confirm but looking at the goals I expect it's similar to this. Maybe Ødegaard is on support duty with Saka on Attack duty but similar non the less. This is what I used on the BETA with Arsenal.  

Wow, very close; I'm impressed.

Overall, I'm very happy with it. We're good in every phase. We're actually top scorers, best defence and highest possession in the league. A few too many draws away from home mean Man City & Liverpool are ahead of us but we're comfortably getting back into the Champions League.

Particularly happy given I sold Lacazette and Aubameyang. I've really focused on bringing through Martinelli but Balogun and Nketiah have both also had a lot of game time.

My goal is to play a 4-2-3-1 which defends as a 4-4-1-1 and attacks as a 3-2-5

• Tomiyasu sits deep and tucks in, forming a three with Gabriel and White. Gabriel stays wider to balance.
• Xhaka and Partey both hold midfield as a simple midfield double pivot.
• Tierney overlaps to create a five in attack with Smith-Rowe

I'm still not quite happy with the positioning on the Tomiyasu and Smith-Rowe. Both are staying too wide in possession which I understand may be a common complaint with the FM 2022 Match Engine.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

[Tommo_]

Thanks for sharing, Özil.
 

5 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

I'm still not quite happy with the positioning on the Tomiyasu and Smith-Rowe. Both are staying too wide in possession which I understand may be a common complaint with the FM 2022 Match Engine.

So ESR sticking out wide to the left this much isn't something I'm doing wrong necessarily?

 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

4 minutes ago, Tommo_ said:

Thanks for sharing, Özil.
 

So ESR sticking out wide to the left this much isn't something I'm doing wrong necessarily?

 

Yes, that's exactly the issue I am having. I think it's a Match Engine issue rather than anything tactical. It seems to be that they do eventually move inside, but it's waaay too late. 

Fortunately it seems to effect the AI similarly as I noticed even Mane and Salah doing the same when we played Liverpool. Interestingly it doesn't seem to have much effect on results or even goals. Salah and Mane are right up there with Lukaku, Kane and Ronaldo for top scorer in my save and Smith-Rowe and Saka are both looking like they might have 20 goal seasons.

[vozzon]

Finding the game very easy this year to get good players. 1st save which is always arsenal got dybala in Jan as he was running his contract down, put in a bid as a joke and got him. Finished 2nd 1st year. 

Got mbappe start of the second season put in a joke bid with Auba (was trying to sell him but no one would pay the wages) PSG really helped there. Also got halaand start of 2nd season. Paid for them all with transfers to get the jump on other teams getting them for free. 2nd season is a bit boring as I cant improve the team much now with those 3 coming in. 

 

 

[AndersAas]

On 01/12/2021 at 11:31, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Wow, very close; I'm impressed.

Overall, I'm very happy with it. We're good in every phase. We're actually top scorers, best defence and highest possession in the league. A few too many draws away from home mean Man City & Liverpool are ahead of us but we're comfortably getting back into the Champions League.

Particularly happy given I sold Lacazette and Aubameyang. I've really focused on bringing through Martinelli but Balogun and Nketiah have both also had a lot of game time.

My goal is to play a 4-2-3-1 which defends as a 4-4-1-1 and attacks as a 3-2-5

• Tomiyasu sits deep and tucks in, forming a three with Gabriel and White. Gabriel stays wider to balance.
• Xhaka and Partey both hold midfield as a simple midfield double pivot.
• Tierney overlaps to create a five in attack with Smith-Rowe

I'm still not quite happy with the positioning on the Tomiyasu and Smith-Rowe. Both are staying too wide in possession which I understand may be a common complaint with the FM 2022 Match Engine.

Is this the system you have landed on@Ö-zil to the Arsenal!? Would you say this a FM22 version/attempt on your Benfica approach tactically?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

2 hours ago, AndersAas said:

Is this the system you have landed on@Ö-zil to the Arsenal!? Would you say this a FM22 version/attempt on your Benfica approach tactically?

It's similar, but the structure is different.

The playing style is similar to the disciplined possession-oriented style I used early in that save, however the structure is based up how Arteta set up in the Tottenham match; the 4-2-3-1 becoming a 3-2-5 or 2-3-5 in attacking phases.

[AndersAas]

11 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

It's similar, but the structure is different.

The playing style is similar to the disciplined possession-oriented style I used early in that save, however the structure is based up how Arteta set up in the Tottenham match; the 4-2-3-1 becoming a 3-2-5 or 2-3-5 in attacking phases.

I thought it looked familiar  I`m doing a save with the same approach you did in your 2nd attempt with Benfica, and will try to make a 4-3-3 with IF/IWs and wing-backs based on this playing style. Have you tried to make the 4-3-3s from the Benfica save in FM22?

[Clifton]

@O-zil to the Arsenal! 

Interested in you selling Laca and Auba.   Did you replace them, or are you planning a save bringing youth on?  Would be great if you did another thread like the Benfica one.

[_mxrky]

1 hour ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

It's similar, but the structure is different.

The playing style is similar to the disciplined possession-oriented style I used early in that save, however the structure is based up how Arteta set up in the Tottenham match; the 4-2-3-1 becoming a 3-2-5 or 2-3-5 in attacking phases.

Do you have any pi on tomiyasu? I’ve been using fb-d but wondering if fb-s is a better replication 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

2 hours ago, AndersAas said:

I thought it looked familiar  I`m doing a save with the same approach you did in your 2nd attempt with Benfica, and will try to make a 4-3-3 with IF/IWs and wing-backs based on this playing style. Have you tried to make the 4-3-3s from the Benfica save in FM22?

I've occasionally used a 4-3-3 and I think that tactically it is a better system - particularly with odd wide player positioning in the current Match Engine - but the double pivot suits our players better. Partey and Xhaka are a very well balanced double pivot; one of the best in the league. The double pivot also gives a bit more support to Patino and Lokonga coming through than the 4-3-3.

 

1 hour ago, Clifton said:

@O-zil to the Arsenal! 

Interested in you selling Laca and Auba.   Did you replace them, or are you planning a save bringing youth on?  Would be great if you did another thread like the Benfica one.

No, I've split the game time between Martinelli, Balogun and Nketiah (extended contract).

I decided to take advantage of not playing in Europe and use the first season to invest in the future. I've played with a very small squad and given professional debuts and game time to Patino, Rekik, Hutchinson, Norton-Cuffy and Cottrell. Manchester City and Liverpool are comfortably ahead but we are well on-track for Top 4 and the squad is in a very good place for next season already.

 

1 hour ago, _mxrky said:

Do you have any pi on tomiyasu? I’ve been using fb-d but wondering if fb-s is a better replication 

Sit narrower, hold position and cut inside with the ball. The reason I go with FB(S) over FB(D) is that FB(S) is nice and compact with Saka as IW(S) in defence as they're both a Positive mentality. FB(D) would create a gap between them.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

[Tommo_]

How is Patino doing, Ozil? Is this a long term save for you?

[JoOSTAR]

Care to share the rest of the player instructions you use @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! ? Can't get a 4-2-3-1 to work myself...

Looks like a fun save!

Edited December 2, 2021 by JoOSTAR

[hasdgfas]

I really love doing a deal, I guess:

Just finished the summer transfer window in season 3(these are in reverse chronological order), and apparently, unlike many Arsenal saves, I'm much happier buying/selling players this season. Usually I try to get to the point where I don't make any buys in a season, but the transfer market is fun for me this year.

[Br3nB]

3 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

I've occasionally used a 4-3-3 and I think that tactically it is a better system - particularly with odd wide player positioning in the current Match Engine - but the double pivot suits our players better. Partey and Xhaka are a very well balanced double pivot; one of the best in the league. The double pivot also gives a bit more support to Patino and Lokonga coming through than the 4-3-3.

 

No, I've split the game time between Martinelli, Balogun and Nketiah (extended contract).

I decided to take advantage of not playing in Europe and use the first season to invest in the future. I've played with a very small squad and given professional debuts and game time to Patino, Rekik, Hutchinson, Norton-Cuffy and Cottrell. Manchester City and Liverpool are comfortably ahead but we are well on-track for Top 4 and the squad is in a very good place for next season already.

 

Sit narrower, hold position and cut inside with the ball. The reason I go with FB(S) over FB(D) is that FB(S) is nice and compact with Saka as IW(S) in defence as they're both a Positive mentality. FB(D) would create a gap between them.

Absolutely love your way of explaining decisions and how you go about things, one of the top top top contributors of this forums history!

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

1 hour ago, Br3nB said:

Absolutely love your way of explaining decisions and how you go about things, one of the top top top contributors of this forums history!

Thank you so much. Kind feedback like this makes it all worthwhile 

 

3 hours ago, Tommo_ said:

How is Patino doing, Ozil? Is this a long term save for you?

He's coming through well; actually just got his first Premier League goal.

He's also completed 100+ passes per 90 over his first 5 Premier League starts plus cup matches.

He's up there with Saka and Smith-Rowe as being having the highest potential at the club I'd say. Very versatile too; can play as a 6, an 8 or a 10. My plan is to get him around 10 league starts in the first season, plus cup matches and the rest of the time available for the U-23s then see where we stand.

 

3 hours ago, JoOSTAR said:

Care to share the rest of the player instructions you use @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! ? Can't get a 4-2-3-1 to work myself...

Looks like a fun save!

There's nothing too complicated.

Off the top of my head:

• DR is doing anything possible to make him sit deep and tuck in to create a back 3.
• DCL "stays wide" so we shift across to make a 3.
• I ask the AML to sit narrower and he ignores me 
• AMR stays wide
• AMC moves into channels
• ST roams from position

Edited December 2, 2021 by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

[AndersAas]

18 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

It's similar, but the structure is different.

The playing style is similar to the disciplined possession-oriented style I used early in that save, however the structure is based up how Arteta set up in the Tottenham match; the 4-2-3-1 becoming a 3-2-5 or 2-3-5 in attacking phases.

Would you say that the TIs you have is the "core" instructions for the FM22 version of the highly structured possession style?

If I remember correctly you used control on the Benfica save? Is much shorter passing a way to gain "retain possession" and adjusting for the attacking mentality? I guess the attacking mentality and no tempo adjustment makes for a more direct and penetrating football than control and lower tempo?

How have you set-up the 4-3-3 with this Arsenal team? Have you tried to make the 4-3-3s (IFs and WBs and Wingers and IWBs) on FM22?

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by AndersAas

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

2 hours ago, AndersAas said:

Would you say that the TIs you have is the "core" instructions for the FM22 version of the highly structured possession style?

If I remember correctly you used control on the Benfica save? Is much shorter passing a way to gain "retain possession" and adjusting for the attacking mentality? I guess the attacking mentality and no tempo adjustment makes for a more direct and penetrating football than control and lower tempo?

How have you set-up the 4-3-3 with this Arsenal team? Have you tried to make the 4-3-3s (IFs and WBs and Wingers and IWBs) on FM22?

 

Good question  I would say it's a variant of possession football rather than "the core", as there's lots of different ways to do it.

The core - for me - is collectivism; lots well-rounded, hard working and players with a team ethic capable of contributing to both attack and defence combined with tactics which:

1. Re-enforce that collectivism; lots of Support duties with either Positive/Attacking team mentality.
2. Organised pressing, collectively as a team.
   • Doesn't necessarily need to be high pressing, but it does need to be organised and press together, as a team.
   • We play high pressing; longer-term we could potentially max that out.
3. Structure that facilitates clean build-up play through either a 3-2, 2-3 or 3-1 shape from the back.
4. Clear attacking shape most commonly either 2-3-5 or 3-2-5 in the attacking phase.

Within possession itself, we play a short-passing system but there are plenty of possession sides playing more directly, and anything in between. I'd like to play higher tempo in the long-run but I don't think we're ready yet.

Since the removal of Team Shape, Football Manager sadly no longer distinguishes between structured and fluid styles of play. If we still had that functionality, I'd be playing Structured but I am trying to move on from that as we no longer have that functionality. I did try using More Disciplined but it's seemed a bit redundant so far; more experimentation required. My approach of using an expansive team mentality with Support duties means the Tactics Creator is always going to call my systems "Very Fluid", but - as we all know - that's nothing more than a label these days.

[Tommo_]

15 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

I ask the AML to sit narrower and he ignores me 

 

19 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Organised pressing, collectively as a team.

What does this mean in terms of TI/PI's, Ozil? No PI settings for pressing, only TIs?

[AndersAas]

18 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Good question  I would say it's a variant of possession football rather than "the core", as there's lots of different ways to do it.

The core - for me - is collectivism; lots well-rounded, hard working and players with a team ethic capable of contributing to both attack and defence combined with tactics which:

1. Re-enforce that collectivism; lots of Support duties with either Positive/Attacking team mentality.
2. Organised pressing, collectively as a team.
   • Doesn't necessarily need to be high pressing, but it does need to be organised and press together, as a team.
   • We play high pressing; longer-term we could potentially max that out.
3. Structure that facilitates clean build-up play through either a 3-2, 2-3 or 3-1 shape from the back.
4. Clear attacking shape most commonly either 2-3-5 or 3-2-5 in the attacking phase.

Within possession itself, we play a short-passing system but there are plenty of possession sides playing more directly, and anything in between. I'd like to play higher tempo in the long-run but I don't think we're ready yet.

Since the removal of Team Shape, Football Manager sadly no longer distinguishes between structured and fluid styles of play. If we still had that functionality, I'd be playing Structured but I am trying to move on from that as we no longer have that functionality. I did try using More Disciplined but it's seemed a bit redundant so far; more experimentation required. My approach of using an expansive team mentality with Support duties means the Tactics Creator is always going to call my systems "Very Fluid", but - as we all know - that's nothing more than a label these days.

So you`re working towards overload, is that what you`re saying? 

I guess using Be More Expressive is a bit counter-productive since that will make players drift away from the collective instructions. Something that would be easier to obtain with the old very fluid team shape 

Gonna have a look and see how close I can get to a compact and collective set-up on the 4-3-3s.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

3 minutes ago, Tommo_ said:

 

What does this mean in terms of TI/PI's, Ozil? No PI settings for pressing, only TIs?

For me, it's actually mostly making sure that individual mentalities (in the Player Instructions screen) give us vertical compactness.

1. Holding midfielder should have the same individual mentality as Central Defenders to create a defensive unit.
   • I don't mind if it's Cautious, Balanced, Positive depending on the system, but I wouldn't want a gap between them.
2. Players on the same flank should have the same individual mentality to ensure they attack and defend together.
   • Mostly I want these to be Positive or Attacking.
   • My biggest dislike is a Fullback on Defensive/Cautious and an attacker on Positive/Attacking (or even Very Attacking); in this case, the defender will defend alone and the attacker will attack alone. Well out-of-date football.
3. Attackers should Positive or Attacking; most importantly attacking and pressing together as a unit.
   • It's very difficult to balance an individual on Very Attacking individual mentality; he's either trying to attack alone or you increase a couple of players with him and ask everyone else to 'cover' for them rather than attacking as a unit.

To re-iterate, I am talking about individual mentality NOT player duty.

The main takeaway is that a Positive or Attacking team mentality with Support duties allows you to press as a team and attack with 5 or 6 or even 7 players. Attacking duties means you attack with a handful of individuals and the rest have to compensate for them. The recent Man City vs PSG match played this out in real life recently.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

15 minutes ago, AndersAas said:

So you`re working towards overload, is that what you`re saying? 

Haha yea, that's always the pinnacle for me 

[Br3nB]

2 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

For me, it's actually mostly making sure that individual mentalities (in the Player Instructions screen) give us vertical compactness.

1. Holding midfielder should have the same individual mentality as Central Defenders to create a defensive unit.
   • I don't mind if it's Cautious, Balanced, Positive depending on the system, but I wouldn't want a gap between them.
2. Players on the same flank should have the same individual mentality to ensure they attack and defend together.
   • Mostly I want these to be Positive or Attacking.
   • My biggest dislike is a Fullback on Defensive/Cautious and an attacker on Positive/Attacking (or even Very Attacking); in this case, the defender will defend alone and the attacker will attack alone. Well out-of-date football.
3. Attackers should Positive or Attacking; most importantly attacking and pressing together as a unit.
   • It's very difficult to balance an individual on Very Attacking individual mentality; he's either trying to attack alone or you increase a couple of players with him and ask everyone else to 'cover' for them rather than attacking as a unit.

To re-iterate, I am talking about individual mentality NOT player duty.

The main takeaway is that a Positive or Attacking team mentality with Support duties allows you to press as a team and attack with 5 or 6 or even 7 players. Attacking duties means you attack with a handful of individuals and the rest have to compensate for them. The recent Man City vs PSG match played this out in real life recently.

Do you look to incorporate these rules into all tactics you build?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

20 hours ago, Br3nB said:

Do you look to incorporate these rules into all tactics you build?

Pretty much. I cannot think of any scenario I wouldn't want compactness. Having a super star come through always throws things maybe.

[Br3nB]

1 minute ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Pretty much. I cannot think of any scenario I wouldn't want compactness. Having a super star come through always throws things maybe.

Yes makes sense, especially in regards to modern football.

 

To be honest I’ve only just started paying attention to the individual mentality bars and can already see where I’m going wrong having a fullback on balanced and inverted winger ahead of him on very attacking, explains why I’m so disjointed! 
 

One thing I noticed last night when checking my FM22 formation on FM21 (due to the bug you reported), I can’t seem to get my striker in a 4-2-3-1 to have any mentality other than balanced or very attacking… any idea why?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

3 minutes ago, Br3nB said:

To be honest I’ve only just started paying attention to the individual mentality bars and can already see where I’m going wrong having a fullback on balanced and inverted winger ahead of him on very attacking, explains why I’m so disjointed! 

Well done. It's game-changing. Once you understand how your decisions are effecting individual mentality well enough you'll be able to play such a range of systems, the game basically becomes about squad building.

 

6 minutes ago, Br3nB said:

One thing I noticed last night when checking my FM22 formation on FM21 (due to the bug you reported), I can’t seem to get my striker in a 4-2-3-1 to have any mentality other than balanced or very attacking… any idea why?

The striker typically as an individual mentality slightly above the team mentality if he is played with an Attack duty, or slightly below with a Support duty.

I don't necessarily have a problem with having a striker with a Balanced mentality - although I'd prefer Positive - but I try to avoid players being overly Cautious or Very Attacking.

This means that the type of Striker you have really dictates your team set up:

1. If you want to play a Support striker then you need a team mentality of Positive or above in order to give him a Balanced individual mentality
   • If you play an Attack duty striker on a Positive or above team mentality, the individual mentality jumps to Very Attacking.
   • If you play a Support duty striker in a Balanced or lower team mentality, individual mentality becomes Cautious.
2. If you want to play a spearhead-type striker with an Attack duty, you balance this playing a Balanced team mentality or lower

Personally, I find most success avoiding individual mentality extremes. I find Very Attacking players play kamakazi football and blow out my system. Cautious players are too.. cautious.

The catch 22 is that in a Positive (or above) team mentality most Attack duty players have a Very Attacking mentality; hence why I mostly end up with teams full of players on Support.

Combinations such as the False 9 and Shadow Striker I loved so much in earlier versions are now a trade-off:

• In a Balanced team mentality the Shadow Striker has an Attacking individual mentality but the False 9 is Cautious; becoming a little bit toothless.
• In a Positive team mentality the False 9 has a Balanced mentality but now the Shadow Striker is Very Attacking; playing kamakazi football.

Maybe there's a way around it, but I haven't spotted it yet. You can also just play with a Cautious or Very Attacking mentality and maybe you'll never notice, I'm not sure. Unfortunately this is one of the limitations in the Tactics Creator, for a number of years now.

[Br3nB]

Amazing insights as always!

 

As you say, in terms of a cohesive team its probably wise to steer clear of Cautious/Very Attacking, unless of course you want to build a very methodical structured way of attacking through certain players and encouraging others to not take risk.

I think the way you play and also the way modern football is heading is more of a collective team effort (players having balanced-attacking mentalities) rather than a real split of cautious-very attacking throughout the team.

[endadc]

Ozil Amazing as always, hope you have some threads coming