Pre Latest Patch (Various Pep Systems) / Latest Patch (6.5.22 / 12.5.22 release) x4 tiki-taka systems - 41131 XT, 433 Pep'd, 4321 Classic, 235 FCB Inverted Pyramid

[BJT]

1) Pep Barca w/MSN 433 - FM22 / High Possession (Super Elite Teams) - Refer to Post #2 (update to 22.3)

(Original - 22.2 Patch tested / refer to Post #2 below for 22.3ME update)

BJT-Pep.Home-22.2.fmfBJT-Pep.Home.Timewaste-22.2.fmfBJT-Pep.Away-22.2.fmfBJT-Pep.Away.Timewaste(Pos)-22.2.fmf

2) Pep's Die Bayern 4141 Inverted Pyramid (Elite Teams) - Refer to Post #2 w/dload (22.3)

3) Pep's Die Bayern 3331 Cruyff Diamond (Super Elite Teams) - Refer to Post #4 w/dload (22.3)

4) Pep's City Taka 433 (Elite Teams) - Refer to Bottom of Post #1 for info/advice (22.3) / dload here

BJT-PepCity.Home-22.3.fmfBJT-PepCity.Away-22.3.fmfBJT-PepCity.Home.Timewaste-22.3.fmfBJT-PepCity.Away.Timewaste-22.3.fmf

 

Notes:

-Tested Patch 22.2

(Updates will be on Post #2 below)

-

Hello all. It’s been a while since I’ve posted a system, but with the new game and an ever improving match engine which has again been enhanced following this latest patch, it has motivated me to go back in time to re-create my favourite style of football to watch in a real proper full match mode in FM, a Pep Barca high possession based tactic.

I have tried in the past to produce this type of high possession tactic on older FMs despite previous FMs/MEs having been highly unfavorable for producing this particular type of possession tactic. I think they played pretty well in the sense when you watched a game fully, you would get a real feel of Pep’s football on screen – albeit you would need to be a vastly superior squad in an uncompetitive league for it to work! But I remember a few guys still enjoying the tactic despite its fragilities / difficulties in achieving success, and is part the reason I thought I would share my Pep version on this latest FM22.

Given the system is only designed for the very best / superior players relatively and thus generally a suicidal way of playing, it can only be used by sides that will dominate their respective leagues (such as PSG, Dinamo etc). Therefore this won’t be a tactic to beat the engine. But I’m hoping there are some fellow Pep Barca fans out there that might still appreciate this style of tactic I have tried to re-create, and will enjoy the Pep match experience.

If anyone has any suggestions that can further improve this, all are very welcome as it would be great to maximize this tactic to play well on this FM.

A Naïve System – “not plug and play”

Pep’s Barca is definitely a fragile and naïve system with a huge reliance of player quality, technical ability and intelligent players. So this will not be a single plug and play tactic – you’ll need to tweak the system in an attempt to try and manage the game more effectively especially in the later stages, and also for away matches.

In testing, the performances at home can be pretty good, but this plan A definitely needs to change for away games. The team will naturally perform worse away from their own ground as playing such an intricate passing game will be more difficult. And although this remains the objective in any football match Barca played, a couple of changes to the system can make Plan A a bit more suited away from Camp Nou.

I had debated what tactics to upload. But to keep it simple rather than have different tactics to reflect in-game tweaks I myself would be inclined to use, I have just uploaded simple main Pep blueprints giving you the power to manage your own in-game tweaks. The top 4 of the general tactic files I have below are uploaded.

1 - Home tactic (base)

2 – Away tactic (base)

3 – Home Late Match Time Wasting (high line, possession based)

4 – Away Late Match Time Wasting (high line, possession based)

5 – Away Late Match Time Wasting (low block, possession based)

6- 10 men / roles (tweak as required)

There are probably more effective methods in how one could choose to manage each of the stages and which are suited to playing vs the ME – but the versions I have created is the way I vision a Pep’s team carrying out these scenarios. Also when chasing a game, I don’t think they ever really increased the tempo much in my eyes, they simply continued to patiently probe the opponents waiting for that opening.

So a simple tweak could be to quicken the GK distribution in order to get the team moving up the pitch quicker is what I tend to do when I’m behind with time flying by. I do these on the base tactics.

They also would at times see out a game going to a super slow tempo and just play out time. Or when coming into the later quarter of a game, the team can start to employ a little bit more time-wasting and / or play for set pieces, more so important in any tightly contested affairs vs decent opposition. And against the bigger teams, they never seemed to change the way they wanted to stamp their authority on the game as well, but they did have the world’s best players at their disposal.

When it came to 10 men, they would still try to outplay and out pass the opposition, I tend to change the Mezzala to a DLP-S, so two playmakers will occupy two central midfield slots and I would remove the half-back.

OIs

Also included is a screenshot of the positional OIs which I use to try and help supplement the pressing and defensive strategy of the system. You may have a different idea in how to implement these, but for any of those that want to use mine I have the screenies here. The general idea is to force the opposing full-backs / wing-backs into the central areas of the pitch where the two central midfielders will try to win the ball higher up the pitch, so as to gain control of the football as soon as possible.

In our own defensive third, we will simply try to make their offensive flank players less effective by forcing them onto their weaker foot. With the added protection of a half-back, it won’t be easy to play through the middle of our back-line.

If anyone can suggests improvements please do. (You can also slightly tweak these based on the formation used, e.g. implement tight marking on the opposing DM in the 343 diamond system, or never tight mark the DM/MC in the 433)

Set Pieces

These are generally varied both on offensive and defensive fronts. I have made sure there is a short routine, and the other two are set to near post for consistent delivery. Throw ins set to short and quick for the base tactics, modified to slower on the time-wasting variants. 

I didn’t find the corner set pieces most effective since the latest update, so if anyone has any ideas for set pieces to complement this system any suggestions appreciated.

Roles

I’ve gone with the less fluid Luis Enrique MSN combination for the forwards at the top of the pitch. I opted with Suarez playing the False Nine role, with Xavi (RPM-S) and Iniesta (Mezzala-S) controlling things in midfield. Messi and Neymar I’ve gone with IF-A roles, allowing them more freedom to showcase their individual abilities in the final third of the pitch.

In LE’s system, Messi / Neymar tended to sit narrower closer to Suarez which I guess worked better to accommodate for the at times they were more direct in getting the ball into the final third whilst counter-attacking more. However to try and look to stretch teams and play the more patient possession based Pep game, I have them holding the width on each flank. They will still naturally look to cut inside, and this movement should allow the two CWB-S (Alba and Alves) to support / cause the opponents problems from both flanks. I’ve always preferred two more attacking wing-backs compared to the more cautious / defensive Abidal and wanted this in my tactic.

From the back, I wanted to have the classic Pep Half-Back role with Busquets along with two BPD-D’s of Pique and Puyol. Valdes behind them is on a SK-D role, keeping the distribution for the most part fairly safe promoting the ball being played out from the back.

TIs and Formation

The mentality chosen is Positive with a focus play through the middle as Peps Barca primarily did, with a much shorter passing implemented and slower tempo and the later would be altered to very slow when looking to time-waste / manage the game late on. I have also disregarded the option of counter-attacking to try and make this a more Pep possession based tactic. So counter-pressing and holding shape, the classic Pep Barca instructions are used.

PPMs (Positive)

I can’t stress the importance of PPMs for such a niche tactic. There won’t be many players suited to play this style of football, and to really maximize one’s success PPMs I believe are crucial to achieve this. I have several examples below of what can supplement the tactic, or likewise what could ruin it:

CWBs – (Hug The Touchline). Really helps to utilize the full width of the pitch. This is important not only having a greater ability to maintain possession, but by using the full pitch it will allow more room for the IF-As to attack the spaces between the opponents CBs and FBs.

BPDs – (Bring the ball out of defence). Perhaps if someone is paying close attention to the Half-Back, a player with the ability to calmly bring the ball out from defense is another option in which to build from the back.

Half-Back – (Short simple passes). This will immediately help to set the possession based game from the back, feeding both Xavi and Iniesta the ball, with the side patiently progressing up the pitch as intended.

RPM – (Dictate Tempo, Look for pass rather than shoot). The side needs a conductor in the middle which is most suited to the playmaker role. Additionally the later will likely look to create that clear cut opening for a team-mate rather than take a shot himself.

Mezzala – (Run through the centre). With the False Nine causing opposing team defensive problems, being able to exploit this space centrally brings some individualistic variety on the offensive front, and will be more effective with the team looking to fully stretch the pitch as wide as possible from our CWBs PPMs.

IFA-s – (Run with the ball often / Cutting inside from their respective flanks). This simply looks to exploit the space between the opposing CBs and FBs as mentioned above.

F9-S (Come Deep to collect the ball). This will help the natural role of the F9, where it is important this player looks to drop deep and cause confusion with the opponents backline. This will also help to bring about this tiki taka style game and keep control of the football.

PPMs (Negative)

As mentioned, PPMs can ruin a well crafted tactic. With Pep’s style such a unique way to play, it will be very sensitive to negative PPMs working against the system. A couple of noticeable examples include:

Shooting From Distance – trying to patiently probe for a clear cut opening and control the game by having the football goes out the window if a player has this PPM, especially if they are a midfielder.

Likes to Beat Offside Trap – avoid this for anyone playing in the False Nine role, as this will be very counter-productive to how the team is setup / intended to play.

Tries Long Range Passes – this is completely against the short passing Tiki Taka possession style, and will stop the side from patiently working their way up the pitch.

--

So ensure you look at these individual PPMs, and look to have them learn / unlearn any existing traits so they can be employed in this system.

Possession / Passing / Performance Stats

My objectives statistic wise are based from RL stats. My aim for FM possession % would be a minimum of 63%, as apparently the method for calculating in FM varies to that IRL, with perhaps a 2% or so reduction shown on the FM % possession stat.

So in my opinion, for a tactic to fall under Pep’s Barca, I believe the lowest % possession they had was in his first year at 65%, so 63% in FM would have to be the very bare minimum.

Anything less and it simply doesn’t fall under Pep’s Barca possession statistics.

A second objective was to try to hit the 1000 successfully completed pass mark. His Barca side apparently achieved 988 vs Levante as their most completed passes. His Bayern had breached the 1,000 mark, and I was able to achieve over a 1,000 completed passes with 1108 below.

A final objective was to try and average around 750 completed passes per game, which his most famous 2010/11 Barca side achieved an average 747 completed passes. We were able to surpass this as well.

To give a rough idea of the general default home tactic, I ran a Liverpool test simulation to both see how it fares in a competitive league. After 38 EPL games, notes as follows:

Possession FM %: 65

Passes Completed 38 Games: 32,067

Av Per Game: 844

Passing % Completion: 94

I also did an away tactic test run, and the statistics were very close, marginally less but not at all significant – which is as expected. (slightly lower passes completed / possession but all within above statistical objectives).

Results

Improvement definitely can be made with the results, more the consistency. So I can’t always guarantee success. One league this tactic struggles consistently in is Italy. I guess with the defensive Italian game, in conjunction with a slow and highly predictable Barca build up, it’s not a league designed for this tactic.

I would say in a good season it’s capable but as stated above, the tactic is highly player reliant and you’ll also need to be the dominant force in your league, so you have the quality and time to play this particular brand of football. It’s definitely a tactic best suited for a dominant team like PSG, where you can play the football you want and other teams not really able to touch you.

Any important players get injured, will immediately have a negative impact on performances. That said, if you do have superior players respective to their leagues, this tactic should do the job in bringing you success Pep Barca style. But the more competitive the league, the less chance of success simply because despite its beauty, it is a weak / fragile system.

I could change things on the game to make it more effective either at base or in-game tweaking – but the purpose of this tactic is to ensure everything stays within Pep’s limits and style. So with any suggested tweaks to the tactic, please bear this in mind.

I also did two long sims with several decent teams in European leagues with my OIs set. I’ve picked what I consider the best results from the two sims shown below that shows it has a degree of capability to succeed with very high possession.

Summary (Final Pos / Pts / Cups) + Possession Av League

PSG, Predicted 1st (1^st / 112 pts / Invincible) – 67%

Liverpool, Predicted 2nd (1^st / 101 Pts / ECL, FA Cup) – 65%

Bayern, Predicted 1^st (1^st / 86pts / Supercup & Pokal) – 64%

Ajax, Predicted 1st (1^st / 80pts / Dutch Cup / Cruyff Cup) – 68%

Lazio, Predicted 5th (2^nd / 83pts / x) – 66%

Benfica, Predicted 3^rd (1^st / 83pts / Portuguese Cup) – 65%

Barcelona, Predicted 2nd (1^st / 90pts / x) – 65%

Zebre – Played Serie A games only / Scudetto 1st

I decided to play a quick season out with Zebre (just the league games only = time constraint), simply because Italy was the league I wasn’t able to win a domestic league title by simulating even with Zebre seperate to the above sims. I also brought in Milenkovic in January.

Admittedly it was a tough save. We had 9 red cards in our league games this year, and due to how defensive the game is played there were a number of tense games. However the ability to tweak over the course of the season and especially using an away tactic made this difference. A low scoring points total this year, but we won the title 83 pts with 3 league games left to go ending 9 points clear of second.

Possession wise we hit 67% with passes completed 34039 in 38 league games which comes to 896 completed passes per game on average. We didn’t do well at all on corners scoring just the 3.

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I think for a Pep tactic, he’s never one to overachieve with an inferior club. The one time he had a squad not capable winning the league was his first season at City – they were lucky to scrape an ECL spot. So meeting expectations is probably what you would hope to achieve with this tactic, perhaps slightly exceed in a good year. But with injuries, you could easily underachieve also.

Also when doing these tests, away form was generally inferior to the home in the majority of cases, so “in theory” you should hopefully achieve slightly better away results when managing these games yourself. The tactic struggle to achieve ECL success (bit like Guardiola with no Messi), but a better away / neutral tactic should increase the chances for a better European performance.

--

Well I hope for those that choose to give this a run you enjoy the tactic. Do feel free to let me know how you get on with it, and any suggestions that could improve results without compromising the style would be much appreciated. 

==

**Pep's City Taka 433 (Elite Teams)**

My Variant

I know Pep's City is probably a popular one of the current day. I've decided to make my version available to download above, as for me that will complete my set of favourite Pep tactics. Again you can use the OIs as detailed in this post earlier. 

I do also utilise a low block when holding on against the hard sides away, but as with the Barca set I will just include the Home, Away, and time-wasting variants for ease. For the hard away games, I would advise time-wasting sometimes, perhaps playing in a more disciplined approach and also play for set-pieces.

It can be difficult to interpret this side, as they have a tendency to vary their style here and there. So the way I chose to formulate this was although it is highly possession based, it tries to bring this variety about in some of the TIs and PIs I have gone with. 

2019/20 Side

I have decided to go with a system that probably goes back to 19/20 when David Silva could play the more roaming playmaker role whilst De Bruyne was an offensive Mezzala. This version also includes good boy Mendy at left back rather than an inverted wing-back. Part the reason I did this is I'm hoping that this may differ slightly to any other City version about. 

So this system will be a bit lop-sided in the way it plays, but I think it produces some excellent football that is both high possession based, but will also choose to counter-attack at the right moments too.

I ran a test with Ajax. I probably should have had more league points but I was still tweaking time-wasting tactics at the time but I lost potentially 6 points from conceding late goals prior to settling on my final Time-wasting version.

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by BJT

[BJT]

Updates (Pep Barca)

Patch 22.3 (minor / alternative tactical set)

This amends the short corner routine in the original to a third near post variant. I have simply included this as when running tests you will have the potential to achieve more corner goals compared to when the short routine is implemented, especially when you have centre backs able to utilise this effectively. It may give a slight edge.

The setup will therefore help when playing teams that park the bus and hit on the counter a lot like in England and Italy where their systems will undoubtedly neutralize the slow possession football, especially when your team isn't overly superior to the opposition or doesn't quite have the quality to break down well organised defensive teams.

BJT-Pep.Home.Timewaste-22.3.fmfBJT-Pep.Away-22.3.fmfBJT-Pep.Away.Timewaste(Pos)-22.3.fmfBJT-Pep.Home-22.3.fmf

 

**************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Pep's Pyramid - Die Bayern / Now Released (18.12.21)

235 Pep System Updates

-None at present

Current Tactical Set Released (22.3)

BJT-Pep235.Home-22.3.fmfBJT-Pep235.Away-22.3.fmfBJT-Pep235.Home.Timewaste-22.3.fmfBJT-Pep235.Away.Timewaste-22.3.fmf

I've now released a set on the same basis of the Barca tactic for his 4141/235 Inverted Pyramid, and this is my personal favourite. At times, for me the football can be quite mesmerizing to watch.

Again you will need to use your best judgement to tweak these to achieve a degree of success, such as when behind in games or employing timewasting / tempo in certain games or situations. I also again utilise a personal low block when there is a need to. And given it's another Pep tactic, generally the same principles apply, especially with timewasting where with the natural triangular patterns the formation brings about on the pitch, you can look to play out time with possession.

It will again be most suited for Elite teams, but with the quicker tempo game and the use of counter-attacking it will definitely be a lot more free-scoring, and possibly a tactic able to be used by a greater spectrum of football teams (will look to next test this and update later in the thread). But you will also concede more, a good quick back line is imperative as the system is vulnerable to a counter-attack over the top. You will also still get high possession with this more purposeful tiki taka style.

I'll  also continue to test and see if things can be improved away from home. But the tactic is naturally most suited for playing at home. Bayern were the best suited team to test with tactic with. I brought in a few players to give depth to the squad, with the results as follows.

For more info on the tactic, the preview post remains further below.

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4141/235 - Pep's Die Bayern (Preview / Tactical Info)

This will be my other system I’ll share and make available for use, Pep’s 4141/235 Inverted Pyramid he used at Bayern Munchen. I’m not exactly sure how soon this will come out, but I have produced my base tactic and will carry on with working on the rest when I have time. For now, the clip will give a decent idea of how this football will be played.

Used Sparingly

Firstly, this was only a system Pep used sparingly. He used it a handful of times when his Bayern side came up against opposition who were purely looking to Park the Bus all day long. So having to actively look to control possession was less of an issue, and allowed this quite eccentric system.

Also his Bayern side were quite different to how Barcelona played. Although primarily they would look to hugely dominate possession, they were a lot more flexible where at times they could play at a quicker tempo, and were more willing to hit teams on the counter when there was the opportunity to do so. 

So this tactic will play very differently, but still fall under the Tiki Taka game style. Instead of the highly possession based patient / probing approach employed at Barca, this will instead play at a slightly higher tempo and be a lot more pro-active in their approach in trying to create chances.

I have done some testing already. And funnily enough, the team it works best with domestically is none other than Bayern, and so at first glance it could be quite effective in the Bundesliga providing you have the quality of players to carry it out.

Offensive Tiki Taka

Given this approach is a lot more on an offensive side of Tiki Taka, you will score a lot more goals – and also concede more too. It will also have less possession, because this system was designed to play against a handful of sides who just stayed back all game with no intention of doing anything else. So when playing against other teams that will actually play a more possession based game and at a lower tempo, this will be the cause – and if possession statistics are an objective, you could attempt to lower/manipulate the tempo to the more classic Pep style of game.

But with the TIs selected in this tactic and a higher tempo, it will be a lot more favourable to this ME and I expect from a results perspective this will be better. I think you will also feel more comfortable using this tactic in game compared to the Pep Barca one, because you will have a greater sense of the side being able to create or attempt more shots at goal rather than play the slow tempo based game of Barca which is more highly reliant on having the world’s best. 

Pep’s team I visioned playing this system I am creating was: Neuer, Lahm, Kimmich, Alaba, Boateng, Xabi Alonso, Thiago, Muller, Costa, Robben, Lewandowski

Edited December 18, 2021 by BJT

[crazybrain13]

Hey,

Looks like a good tactics a replication of Pep's Barca. Congrats.

Have you got an PI's for individual players/roles?

[BJT]

On 13/12/2021 at 23:42, crazybrain13 said:

Hey,

Looks like a good tactics a replication of Pep's Barca. Congrats.

Have you got an PI's for individual players/roles?

Hi, yes they will have. They should be all contained within the files uploaded, but if you require screenies let me know. However I didn't realise a new patch was going to be released late yesterday as well - the tactic is currently tested under 22.2.

=================================================================================================================================================================

**Pep’s Die Bayern 3331 / 343 (Cruyff Diamond)**

BJT-343.Pep-Home.fmfBJT-343.Pep-Away.fmfBJT-343.Pep-Away.hard.fmfBJT-343.Pep-Home.Timewaste.fmfBJT-343.Pep-Away.Timewaste.fmfBJT-343.Pep-Neutral.fmf

Released - 22.3 Tested | Pep's 3331/343 Cruyff Diamond

Main Test - FCB Season 2 (post Inverted Pyramid season 1 test)

I’ve now ran a couple of tests with my tactic of Pep’s Cruyff diamond version. I carried on after my first season with Bayern that used the Inverted Pyramid tactic. So with the new formation and the requirement of having a real quality backline, I was able to do a little wheeling and dealing in the Summer to try get a real Pep world class squad to choose from. And here’s how my hands on second season went with a team designed to fully utilise the tactic properly:

Only the best

It requires a world-class team to work, but once you have the players this should be a fun tactic to watch and see some great team goals.

Average possession was very good as well with around an IRL % equivalent of 66-67%, though of course these statistics will include the time-wasting used to see out each and every game. It was capable of controlling a strong Liverpool side in the final which was good. 

Other Tests

In my first initial hands on testing, I also played as Athletico Madrid and it did bring me about a treble (ECL / La Liga / Spanish Cup) - though winning La Liga by a point with a 85 points with Valencia second on 84 points. Home form was great, the away games was the tricky area again. This is what I tried to improve, but I think with a lower quality team especially on the defensive side, you will naturally struggle more away.

You also have to bear in mind given the system requires top top players at the height of their game, if your team is less capable or consistent in their performances, then do expect to see a drop off in these performances and results - and it very likely won't work well with lower quality sides or teams that aren't one of the favourites to win their respective leagues.

I have uploaded the full set of what I’ve used:

1-Home tactic

2-Away tactic

3-Neutral tactic

4-Away tactic (difficult games)

5-Home time wasting

6-Away time wasting

Try if you Dare

There's no need for a low-block here, as you'll effectively be playing Total Football. Also if I go down to 10 men, I’ll tend to remove the AM-A and change the CF-A to a False9-S.

It's a daring system - use it at your peril. The away games were indeed the most tricky to get right, and you may still need to even tweak a little further especially for the hard away games. I have produced these based that I have a really high quality Pep squad as tested with Bayern, where the objective is to try and win every football match. If you are happy with taking a point, then you could further try tweak the away / harder games version to suit.

Well if any of you give it a try, hope you enjoy and it works relatively well - but no promises .

For further details I've left my initial mini preview info below. And don't forget, definitely use OIs for this particular formation. (detailed in the preview and post #1)

*************

-Preview-

I’ve decided to make one further Pep system and it is currently a WIP.  The clip above will reflect the type of football I’m looking to replicate and produce in this tactic – now, it’s about getting it to work half decently

It seems quite popular to try and create a tactic that uses the Cruyff diamond. Well rather than do a Cruyff Diamond, I’ve gone with Pep’s version. He’s also used it Barcelona during the period Messi was their False 9, but I’ve decided to go with the Bayern system as I think it is a little more feasible to use with the engine.

That said, you’ll concede a lot of goals playing in this way. So a bit like the Pep Barca tactic but perhaps even more so, you’ll require top players especially in defense to have this system work well. But the general play style will be very similar to the Pep Inverted Pyramid system where it will play at a quicker tempo compared to the Barca system, and also utilize the counter-press and counter-attack.

OIs

You can use the OIs that were showing in Post #1. These will be important given the team won’t have any players in the wing-back position – so you’ll need to force the opposition through the middle as the defensive strategy, whilst having OIs that supplement this.

The Plan

The general idea of this system was to overload on one side, thus shifting the defensive team to one side of the pitch – leaving the other side with more space to exploit when able to switch the play. Otherwise, when it comes to trying to see out games, keeping possession of the football and playing at a very slow tempo remains. The only difference is with the shape of this system – there won’t be any low block strategy like my other two Pep systems, unless I end up moving the wingers back to the wing-back stratas.

I’ll look to release x4 versions again, although it is possible I may include a couple more. Given the huge fragility of the system there could well be extra tweaking required in certain games / scenarios. From my testing so far, it seems very tricky to have this play well away from your own backyard.

Ultimately, I think this tactic will be for someone who wants a challenge in their save, wants to play a high possession based game which plays very nice football and is with a club that has the money to invest in top top players. If anyone wants to play with lower sides, this diamond and the Pep Barca tactics are definite no nos, but the 4141 Inverted Pyramid system I think could work if you have good players relative to your division.

The Bayern team I had in mind for this particular system: Neuer, Boateng, Alaba, Lahm, Xabi Alonso, Thiago, Vidal, Douglas Costa, Robben, Muller, Lewandowski

Edited December 25, 2021 by BJT

[edgar555]

3 hours ago, BJT said:

Hi, yes they will have. They should be all contained within the files uploaded, but if you require screenies let me know. However I didn't realise a new patch was going to be released late yesterday as well - the tactic is currently tested under 22.2.

Doesn't look like there's any ME changes in the hotfix. 

Can you upload screenies of everything thats relevant (TI's and PI's) please, I'm on xbox and can't download. Thanks.

Edited December 14, 2021 by edgar555

[BJT]

PIs

(Slight dif SK for away tactics)

[BJT]

Home TIs

Home TW

Home Base

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by BJT

[BJT]

Away TIs

Away Timewaste

 

Away Base

Edited December 14, 2021 by BJT

[edgar555]

Thanks @BJT

[latrell]

have you tried this with the new ME

[edgar555]

19 minutes ago, latrell said:

have you tried this with the new ME

There's no ME changes in last nights patch

[McGreen]

Can I ask why you use hold up ball on inside forwards?

I always play similar tactics, but never used hold up ball ... seems contradictory to me. IF has dribble more, run at defence, ...

[BJT]

13 minutes ago, McGreen said:

Can I ask why you use hold up ball on inside forwards?

I always play similar tactics, but never used hold up ball ... seems contradictory to me. IF has dribble more, run at defence, ...

Yep sure, to try and bring about the way Barca looked to camp outside the opponents box, and patiently probe waiting for an opening. Pep's side never really counter attacked, and by the IFs holding the ball up they tried to bring both wing-backs into the offensive third to help achieve this ball retention in this final third.

By then having a PPM of the CWB-S hugging the touchline, the team will naturally look to use the full final third of the pitch, and so when the ball reaches the inside forward the opponent's full-backs would have to keep a close attention to the high up wing-backs - leaving a greater room between the CBs and FBs for the Inside forwards / Messi to exploit and run into.

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by BJT

[kamilonurevren]

Hello , I'm very interested in this tactic

I'd like to ask you a few questions

1- What kind of strategy do we have when we need a goal ? In cases where we are defeated.

2- Do you do anything other than start a match in your opponent's team instructions ?

3- How to minimize the balls thrown behind the defense ? @BJT

Edited December 15, 2021 by kamilonurevren

[BJT]

Hi,

1 - As per the OP, I don't think Barca ever changed much when behind in a game. They would continue to patiently probe and cross their fingers their players would produce some magic. The tweak I suggested would be to change the GK distribution from Slow to Quick, thus giving a greater urgency to start building up from the back again rather than by default, waiting for players regroup back to their starting positions on the pitch.

I actually did this in my test save I played with Zebre. Sometimes it doesn't feel like you make much headway - but there were a few games it gave a positive effect.

2 - With OIs, I simply have them as my default method of pressing to supplement the defensive strategy of forcing them to the middle and reducing the number of crosses coming into the box. I guess back in the day Barca weren't exactly renowned for their aerial superiority at the back, and the OIs set try to help defend in this manner.

3 - Well, I've always said this system is a weak one. And with the post above with respect to IF's holding up the ball, even more so - because it makes the team going forward highly predicable and very reliant on Neymar / Messi to produce a bit of magic.

Linking this in to being vulnerable to counters / balls over the top, simply there isn't much you can do apart from having the world's best defenders capable of playing this high risk of playing. and a good sweeper keeper behind. The idea of Tiki Taka is to have so much ball that you will limit opportunities for teams to break out / counter effectively. Some consider Tiki Taka as defensive football.

And if you lack the quality going forward to make the most of your possession, then you'll be even more so very susceptible to this type of threat, and it's probably part a reason why in the Prem, Italian leagues, or if you don't have world class players to break stubborn sides down you will really struggle to gain the desired / consistent results.

-

So my advice is to pay a close emphasis on getting the right players to suit the system, ensure there are no negative PIs and further promote positive PIs. And then simply hope your team have the quality, and the consistency in performance to perform at a high level most of the time.  Team talks etc will also be very important in helping achieve this.

The system can work, but given how it is, it's very difficult to be consistent playing such a high possession and slow, predictable game. But when you do get the right players, I think this style of football is great to watch

 

[kamilonurevren]

It's really great to watch this style of football(tiki taka). I'll take your advice thank u 

Can we try other strategies in the event that the goal is needed like Attacking or Cautious vs... ? @BJT

What training routine do you use ? 

Finally I'd appreciate it if you'd share the Away Late Match Time Wasting (low block, possession based) Team instructions. 

Thank u . 😊

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by kamilonurevren

[levo in da house]

i will try arsenal =)

[latrell]

Hi bjt i was wondering are you a pep fan or a Barcelona fan your tactic looks really good im going to give it a try, my favourite Barcelona team was under frank Rijkaard would you ever consider making a tactic like that i always felt that team was so fun to watch   

[BJT]

1 hour ago, kamilonurevren said:

It's really great to watch this style of football(tiki taka). I'll take your advice thank u 

Can we try other strategies in the event that the goal is needed like Attacking or Cautious vs... ? @BJT

What training routine do you use ? 

Finally I'd appreciate it if you'd share the Away Late Match Time Wasting (low block, possession based) Team instructions. 

Thank u . 😊

 

Agree  it's definitely worth the pain to try and get it working half decently!

Well that was the thing...given this thread is purely looking to do things in a Pep style at Barca, neither of those mentalities from what I saw of Barcelona back in the day to me would apply. Pep has always fallen under a positive mentality for me. I rarely ever saw them use a lower block too, perhaps in the later stages of one of their UCL finals vs Man U I clearly remember them dropping deeper. They wouldn't counter like on a cautious mentality though, they would simply look to pass their way out and up the pitch keeping the ball. I'd also never use this low block for any length of time, as inviting pressure for too long especially in this game isn't recommended.

I've actually never got into the whole training side...my time is limited and I actually used to play Touch to avoid this element to make game time progress. And I'm a bit lazy tbh too  I simply use my ass man to handle it. But I know Bust The Net has covered training and made them a bit more friendly to incorporate too so highly recommend you pass by there. The only thing I do quickly before I start playing a season is ensuring I have match review's added in after weekend games and also any weeks with no games on I'll add some team bonding sessions. Simple quick benefits and I find that's enough to just about get by.

Sure, here are the screens for this:

[BJT]

1 hour ago, latrell said:

Hi bjt i was wondering are you a pep fan or a Barcelona fan your tactic looks really good im going to give it a try, my favourite Barcelona team was under frank Rijkaard would you ever consider making a tactic like that i always felt that team was so fun to watch   

Hi, well unfortunately I missed the boat with his side  I think I only ever caught a glimpse of them.  So I don't really know that team so well, that said I love the Zidane / Ronaldinho footballing decade. Probably the other system I have liked trying to re-create in the past is Pep's 235 Inverted Pyramid system, which is even more crazy! If peeps find this one works satisfactory enough for them then I could try and conjur something up in that direction.

Well I kinda went through that period where I just really liked how Pep got Barca to play. They had the right blend of players to make them an exciting watch, and other teams simply couldn't get near them and you could only end up but admire them.

But funnily enough I'm a Mourinho fan. If only Catenaccio or Parking the Bus worked consistently well on FM I would have spent some time trying to get something like that working. Liked Tony Pulis as well and his hoofball.

[kamilonurevren]

Thanks for the answers 🙏

What tactics do you take against the big teams, for example, away Liverpool Barcelona Real.Madrid ? @BJT

[BJT]

2 hours ago, kamilonurevren said:

Thanks for the answers 🙏

What tactics do you take against the big teams, for example, away Liverpool Barcelona Real.Madrid ? @BJT

Np - well to me with the players they had they would still always try to assert themselves as they had the quality to do so, but they would have to play a bit smarter in going about their business and be willing to take the sting out of the game at times. So I would start / implement mixed time-wasting  - and it's also what I had designed a lower block tactic for, for use in these particular tougher away matches late on.

[Mitroflo45]

First season with AC Milan, very good results for a team predicted 3rd and very good stats of possession. 

 

Thank you for these tactics

[kamilonurevren]

42 minutes ago, Mitroflo45 said:

First season with AC Milan, very good results for a team predicted 3rd and very good stats of possession. 

 

Thank you for these tactics

Very impressive 👏

What tactic did you use ? home Or away

What training styles did you use during the season ?

Opposition Team instructions Vs.. 

I'd appreciate it if you'd give me more details thank you

[Mitroflo45]

il y a 24 minutes, kamilonurevren a dit :

Very impressive 👏

What tactic did you use ? home Or away

What training styles did you use during the season ?

Opposition Team instructions Vs.. 

I'd appreciate it if you'd give me more details thank you

Hello 

I used the home tactic for home match and the away tactic for away match 

Against big opponents in the champions league league like liverpool or PSG I used the time wasted home tactic

my training styles come from Hood gaming (

)

 

and I don’t use oppositions team instructions. 
 

I Hope this can help you and I’m here if you have any other questions. 

 

[kamilonurevren]

18 minutes ago, Mitroflo45 said:

Hello 

I used the home tactic for home match and the away tactic for away match 

Against big opponents in the champions league league like liverpool or PSG I used the time wasted home tactic

my training styles come from Hood gaming (

)

 

and I don’t use oppositions team instructions. 
 

I Hope this can help you and I’m here if you have any other questions. 

 

In my Gladbach save, sometimes with this tactic, there's very little shooting. 

When you need a goal, do you make a change in tactics ?

Finally 

What were you doing when you got too pressed during the game ?

[Mitroflo45]

Honestly, I just switch the mentality to very offensive and sub the players who are tired and when I’m too press I just click on « demand more » 

[kamilonurevren]

Thank u 👍 

 

1 hour ago, Mitroflo45 said:

Honestly, I just switch the mentality to very offensive and sub the players who are tired and when I’m too press I just click on « demand more » 

 

[BJT]

4 hours ago, kamilonurevren said:

In my Gladbach save, sometimes with this tactic, there's very little shooting. 

When you need a goal, do you make a change in tactics ?

Finally 

What were you doing when you got too pressed during the game ?

Do bear in mind I don't know if BMG will have the desired quality to perform the tactic effectively. Also, it's well known the Antidote to Pep's Tiki Taka based game - is Klopp's Gegenpressing, which is a common style used in the Bundesliga.

The little shooting will be a case of your players trying to create that perfect opening with a lot of patience, or space to produce a moment of brilliance. If your players don't have the technical ability, vision, off the ball, decisions and composure on the football, then it will be a reason why you may be struggling to create the type of clear cut shooting chances your players are attempting to produce with this style of game.

If your players are also naturally fairly inconsistent with their performance too, then things can quite easily break down in a system where it relies heavily on everyone to play their part in producing the perfect goal.

@Mitroflo45 - great job utilizing this with Milan btw.

[kamilonurevren]

How can we improve these features? like ability, vision, of f the ball, decisions and composure  Except to buying players. @BJT

Individual training take a long time

Maybe in some games, if I pull back the defensive line or make the game cautious not positive , etc 🤔

Edited December 17, 2021 by kamilonurevren

[BJT]

4 hours ago, kamilonurevren said:

How can we improve these features? like ability, vision, of f the ball, decisions and composure  Except to buying players. @BJT

Individual training take a long time

Maybe in some games, if I pull back the defensive line or make the game cautious not positive , etc 🤔

Well, unfortunately that's what Pep does - he's given cash to buy the world's best wherever here goes  He wouldn't be able to play the same style of football with inferior players. The only thing you can try to do is identify players in your squad whose attributes don't fit the bill, sell them on and find players using attribute filters who although may not be world class, have aspects of their natural game that would fit well into the system. You'll then be able to maximize the tactic / style of football as best you can with your resources available.

Individual training won't also necessarily help if a player simply isn't naturally strong in those areas and / or lacks any potential to develop. 

[kamilonurevren]

3 hours ago, BJT said:

Well, unfortunately that's what Pep does - he's given cash to buy the world's best wherever here goes  He wouldn't be able to play the same style of football with inferior players. The only thing you can try to do is identify players in your squad whose attributes don't fit the bill, sell them on and find players using attribute filters who although may not be world class, have aspects of their natural game that would fit well into the system. You'll then be able to maximize the tactic / style of football as best you can with your resources available.

Individual training won't also necessarily help if a player simply isn't naturally strong in those areas and / or lacks any potential to develop. 

👍 Thank u 

And also I'm curious about something.

What to pay the most attention to when choosing a player for this tactic ? @BTJ

[BJT]

Pretty much those mentioned above: technical ability, vision, off the ball, decisions and composure on the football

In addition to standard positional requirements, first touch of course must be good - dribbling / flair for the offensive players. defenders will need to be very quick, good anticipation, concentration and also be comfortable on the ball too. And ideally, you'll have a very hard working team - Pep's Barca were hugely aggressive in their pressing and tried to win the ball back very high up the pitch. So make sure to at least have a hard working midfield to perhaps compensate for the forward players that don't work as hard.

And don't forget to closely check PPMs, as however good a player might be, his natural tendencies can still greatly hinder the tactic. It's a difficult system to not just get working, but implementing too because there won't be many players around that can play this system optimally. I'm not sure many current footballers today tbh would comfortably be able to play in this sort of a system. Certainly not one midfielder comes close to prime Xavi or Iniesta.

[germafrodit]

Mezzala – (Run through the centre)

with ball or?

[kamilonurevren]

17 hours ago, BJT said:

Pretty much those mentioned above: technical ability, vision, off the ball, decisions and composure on the football

In addition to standard positional requirements, first touch of course must be good - dribbling / flair for the offensive players. defenders will need to be very quick, good anticipation, concentration and also be comfortable on the ball too. And ideally, you'll have a very hard working team - Pep's Barca were hugely aggressive in their pressing and tried to win the ball back very high up the pitch. So make sure to at least have a hard working midfield to perhaps compensate for the forward players that don't work as hard.

And don't forget to closely check PPMs, as however good a player might be, his natural tendencies can still greatly hinder the tactic. It's a difficult system to not just get working, but implementing too because there won't be many players around that can play this system optimally. I'm not sure many current footballers today tbh would comfortably be able to play in this sort of a system. Certainly not one midfielder comes close to prime Xavi or Iniesta.

I didn't get good results from away games with away tactic. I always had to change it during the game with the home tactics. 

I didnt understand why

[BJT]

3 hours ago, germafrodit said:

Mezzala – (Run through the centre)

with ball or?

Yes, sorry with the ball

[Mitroflo45]

First match with The Bayern tactic, simply amazing !

[Mitroflo45]

I won everything with die Bayern tactic, it's just amazing and i prefer this tactic 

Thank you for these tactics BJT !

[BJT]

Great to hear it worked for you @Mitroflo45. Yes I prefer the Bayern one as well, the football is really nice to watch I think, and there's a much greater purpose to this Tiki Taka style.

[kamilonurevren]

How to minimize the balls thrown behind the defender in this tactic ? Except to pull back the defensive line 

What can we use in training ? Something like that 

My defenders are fast and their hunch is good @BJT

[BJT]

4 hours ago, kamilonurevren said:

How to minimize the balls thrown behind the defender in this tactic ? Except to pull back the defensive line 

What can we use in training ? Something like that 

My defenders are fast and their hunch is good @BJT

With the Pep philosophy, you simply have to accept that this risk is the greatest from when you try to control a game by having possession of the football. There's not really much you can do about it, apart from pressing aggressively and effectively from the front to make them lose possession / play inaccurate balls, and by having defenders very capable attribute wise to negate this threat as much as possible.

I don't really focus on the training side as mentioned earlier, but taking a brief look at the regimes Defending Engaged and Transition Restrict may be quite useful to implement in your regime that is related to your primary concern above.

[kamilonurevren]

2 hours ago, BJT said:

With the Pep philosophy, you simply have to accept that this risk is the greatest from when you try to control a game by having possession of the football. There's not really much you can do about it, apart from pressing aggressively and effectively from the front to make them lose possession / play inaccurate balls, and by having defenders very capable attribute wise to negate this threat as much as possible.

I don't really focus on the training side as mentioned earlier, but taking a brief look at the regimes Defending Engaged and Transition Restrict may be quite useful to implement in your regime that is related to your primary concern above.

I know I've asked a lot of questions, but I'm curious about one more thing 😊

No tight marking in tactics, can I find out why? @BJT Wouldn't it be more useful in a defensive ?

[BJT]

27 minutes ago, kamilonurevren said:

I know I've asked a lot of questions, but I'm curious about one more thing 😊

No tight marking in tactics, can I find out why? @BJT Wouldn't it be more useful in a defensive ?

My OIs (screenshot in OP) will have some positions tight marked and others not tight marked. Also positional roles will have some selected and not. But generally it depends how you want to press and whether you want your players to maintain a better position in defensive situations or immediately look to harass the player receiving the ball.

[kamilonurevren]

40 minutes ago, BJT said:

My OIs (screenshot in OP) will have some positions tight marked and others not tight marked. Also positional roles will have some selected and not. But generally it depends how you want to press and whether you want your players to maintain a better position in defensive situations or immediately look to harass the player receiving the ball.

Thank u 👍

From what I understand,I think it would be useful to give tight marking to opposing team players with a high level of talent and creativity.

Also, transition training will be useful @BJT

 

[kamilonurevren]

Some of the results I have received

The league isnt over yet

[Jonnysarg]

Has anyone had anyluck in the lower leagues with any of these tactics after the update please if so which ones 

[germafrodit]

19 часов назад, Jonnysarg сказал:

Has anyone had anyluck in the lower leagues with any of these tactics after the update please if so which ones 

I played in Poland for a team from the first league and finished second. A lot of luck.

[1980haighy]

Hi there, I done a tweak of the Bayern 235 for more underdog teams that I'm using In the Championship. I use the Home as my standard tactic, switch to fewer risks if I'm struggling in a game and waste time version is self explanatory. It works well for me so feel free to have a go

PoorMan'sPep 235.Fewer Risks.fmf PoorMan'sPep 235.Home.fmf PoorMan'sPep 235.Waste Time.fmf

[seb1083]

Hi !

I'm using the 235 versions in my save with Anderlecht.

Really fun tactic to play with.  And I love the fact that the danger is coming from everywhere.  Makes it really hard for the opposition to defend.

 

[BJT]

@seb1083 – hi, cheers for your post and great you are also enjoying the football with the 235.

Meanwhile I’ve been trying to hit a personal objective of winning a league title with 70% average season possession using Pep Barca. In FM this is around an RL possession equivalent of just under the 73% that was achieved by a peak Pep Barca, which in the FM ME I don’t think is too easy.

Figured Ajax might be a team capable of doing it with a few investments to bolster the squad depth, and we just about did it in the end and won all 3 domestic trophies. Got out a group of death with City, BVB and AC Milan in the ECL finishing 2nd, though lost to Man U first round KOs 1-2 agg.

But it's just nice being able to have a degree of success playing football in this way with huge possession, although you need an awesome squad to carry it out especially in the top third of the pitch. This is a lot more evident when teams park the bus second half of the season - if your team doesn't have the quality to convert the fewer chances that are created, then you will get punished from the greater counter-attacking threats the opposing teams bring from the way they now setup to play against the tactic.

Scored a nice Barca-ish team goal as well – I definitely want to see more of these type of intricate goals in FM especially when playing through the middle like this tactic does. There has definitely been improvement on the possession front on FM which I’m really glad to see. It still plays a little sluggish at times on full match mode but hopefully they'll continue to work on this.