My 4312 lower loe

[Novem9]

Just want to introduce my tactic  
First version was based on Jose Mourinho Inter 2010, but v2 (screenshot) modified by ingame experience:

PIs are very important:

• LB : hold position, sit narrower
• RB : stay wider
• DLF : stay wider

I don't use counter-press in first months, but without lower loe it looked passive even in attacking mentality.
Play out of defence + slighty higher (default) tempo and risk of attacking mentality creating chances for counter attacks. 

Probably you noticed that 4312 have no wingers  

I compensated this :

• left wing : MEZ(a) + DLF plays wider:

Mez imitates Winger

 

or attacks from deep position:

 

 

DLF runs wider, in next few seconds he will be goal assistant:

 

Right wing:

• RB is lateral. I choose FB , because I found WB is not teammate focused like FB. 

I used CM as cover of RB, but when I started to use AM in attackind duty, I also switched CM -> BBM for more options in attack. In this roles combination RB could wait to BBM runs forward and pass him for example.

 

I like when my LB imitates CB. This is not really possible in attacking mentality, but I want to use this for quick and riskly attacks, which compensate LOE. So my LB sometimes looks like CB, but more often it's like:

I would use FB(d) or something else, but don't see a reason to broke tactic which works for me.

 

AM is an unpredictable variable. I don't use SS because AM is more focused for teamwork and assists. But he is good in second tempo of attacks too:

 

I noticed that opposite defence confusing when I have 4 attacking players in middle zone. Doesn't matter this is combination from middle or right wing crossing - it's overloading zone:

  

 

 

I didn't rush and don't use many transfers. I played 5 season, where won promotion in D1, won 2 cups and help Czech Republic to hold Top 8 UEFA coefficents:

In my 5 season I won D1 with 24AG in 35 games

As young Mourinho (read his interview in Porto) we don't see possession but ready to use this for goals:

And FM didn't indetificate my style. It's changing route one / fluid counter-attack / gegenpressing , depends opposite team possession I guess.

 

 

Champions League debut. Lucky draw, but Brugge is winner of Conference League:

  

 

I stopped this save because board doesn't interesting to improve newgens facilites or wage limits and I can't buy better players despite Brno is rich club by UEFA patronage.
But I really happy lower loe is effective, although I've heard a lot of the opposite. Although it is not clean lower loe (counter, attacking mentality) I guess it looks like option of JM's Porto - pragmatic, but agressive. He canceled to use these things in 2010s and it didn't lead to anything good

 

Thanks for attention!  

Edited January 10, 2022 by Novem9

[HanziZoloman]

Nice work mate! I already found something to play like this in @Rashidi old topics: mastering Movement.

This FB in holding position looks interesting. I also play a 4312 with satisfying  effort but by the big clubs in the league (Germany) I get crushed most of the time. Like having 7 Clear Cut Chances against me or suffering conceding 5 goals … how do stay defensively solid against better opponents?

Edited January 11, 2022 by HanziZoloman

[Novem9]

3 часа назад, HanziZoloman сказал:

how do stay defensively solid against better opponents?

I just change mentality for balanced in this tactic, sometimes. But usually I use all as in the screens. I have a plan and try to use it. Lower loe and other settings are good enough imo for solid defence. Bayern scored 4 goals, but my team is not the best even in Czech Republic! 
Also I use balanced mentality in last 10 minutes if I win game to lower risk and tempo. Not every game, but sometimes if feel the need.

I tried to find effective roles combination. I'm not a big fan of BWM for example, but was surprised this role is the most effective for me this time.
I was also convinced again less TI less problem  Used some TI just for using and for 'mental peace' you know  Deleted them and it started to be better

Good luck!

[HanziZoloman]

That’s good advice dude thank you

[Nicke9000]

Always enjoy tactics with one fullback more defensive minded and a Mezzala given plenty of space to operate in. Your setup has inspired me to go with something similar!

[3rik]

Will also try something similar. Probably se if i can change the BWM to something else first. Love a good tactic with few TI. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by 3rik

[HanziZoloman]

I had to change my formation. Next season we lost everything with this 4312 after it has given us the best place the year before. My striker is jammed and nothing works out. 
Did you had this phases too? 
My formation was like this:

        Pa DLFs

             AMs

 DLPs MCd MEZs

FBs CDd CDd FBa

           SKd

TI higher DL / Lower LOE

pass into space / counter / get stuck in

PI CD mark tighter / Strikers and AM close down more / FBs hold position 

you see any flaws?

Edited January 19, 2022 by HanziZoloman

[Novem9]

2 минуты назад, HanziZoloman сказал:

you see any flaws?

Too many support roles for me.

P(a) - DLF(s)
---AM(a)---
Mez(a)-CM(d)-DLP(s)

And don't sure about DL+1 LOE -1 , this is extra compact, why?

[HanziZoloman]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Novem9:

Too many support roles for me.

P(a) - DLF(s)
---AM(a)---
Mez(a)-CM(d)-DLP(s)

And don't sure about DL+1 LOE -1 , this is extra compact, why?

Thanks for replying:

first: this could be good. I usually face much better opposition and after getting thrashed with more adventurous roles I became a little anxious. 
second: is related, before I had DL+2 to compress the space before my DL where is no DM. Last matches I dropped it to standard.

My striker isn’t what you call world class. He is quick and that’s it. A poacher is well suited, last season 14 goals and 10 assists. This year zero. I even got a better one, 4 goals.

When you play a MEZa what are the attributes you are looking for?

I have a good one but he is missing flair (5)

Edited January 19, 2022 by HanziZoloman

[Novem9]

3 минуты назад, HanziZoloman сказал:

Thanks for replying:

first: this could be good. I usually face much better opposition and after getting thrashed with more adventurous roles I became a little anxious. 
second: is related, before I had DL+2 to compress the space before my DL where is no DM. Last matches I dropped it to standard.

My striker isn’t what you call world class. He is quick and that’s it. A poacher is well suited, last season 14 goals and 10 assists. This year zero. I even got a better one, 4 goals.

When you play a MEZa what are the attributes you are looking for?

I have a good one but he is missing flair (5)

Different players form their tactics in different ways, but I don't see a link between duties and power of opposite players. Rather, on the contrary. The presence of a large number of support duty in your example could works for opposite team. If I use few attacking roles, they create many troubles for opposite team and limit them. Of course it doesn't mean you need to use all roles as attack, balance at first.

+ I don't see a reason to use this formation to keep possession, but your roles will try.

 

Mez? Depends on what I expect. In this specific example - I want my MEZ(a) will be a kind of SS. So finishing, off the ball, technique, first touch, composure, anticipation.

[HanziZoloman]

Hey @Novem9 your hints have been helpful. Now I play with more courage, more attacking roles as you said the MEZ and the AM and won against Cologne and BVB (by setpieces but it was more joy to watch) 

The first match against BVB started horrible, conceded 2 goals in the first four minutes of the match and my defence looked out of shape (3 CCC).

I dropped the CMd into a HB and pushed my FB into WB and now my team was performing much better, we managed to turn things around 2:3 in the end. Next match against Cologne again with a header from a set piece gave us the win but my team performed much more courageously and I even played attacking mentality.

thanks! 

Edited January 19, 2022 by HanziZoloman

[Novem9]

12 минут назад, HanziZoloman сказал:

Hey @Novem9 your hints have been helpful. Now I play with more courage, more attacking roles as you said the MEZ and the AM and won against Cologne and BVB (by setpieces but it was more joy to watch) 

The first match against BVB started horrible, conceded 2 goals in the first four minutes of the match and my defence looked out of shape (3 CCC).

I dropped the CMd into a HB and pushed my FB into WB and now my team was performing much better, we managed to turn things around 2:3 in the end. Next match against Cologne again with a header from a set piece gave us the win but my team performed much more courageously and I even played attacking mentality.

thanks! 

I'm glad to know!

Do you use the same DL and LOE as before? Your defence vulnerable for long passing from wings especially in this settings. Possible why HD works better in this tactic

[HanziZoloman]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb Novem9:

I'm glad to know!

Do you use the same DL and LOE as before? Your defence vulnerable for long passing from wings especially in this settings. Possible why HD works better in this tactic

This time I have the DL on standard. 
After another two matches everything is as usual. We play with a little more courage and confidence but the defence is a mess.  one point away from avoiding relegation 

Edited January 19, 2022 by HanziZoloman

[crusadertsar]

3 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Thanks for replying:

first: this could be good. I usually face much better opposition and after getting thrashed with more adventurous roles I became a little anxious. 
second: is related, before I had DL+2 to compress the space before my DL where is no DM. Last matches I dropped it to standard.

My striker isn’t what you call world class. He is quick and that’s it. A poacher is well suited, last season 14 goals and 10 assists. This year zero. I even got a better one, 4 goals.

When you play a MEZa what are the attributes you are looking for?

I have a good one but he is missing flair (5)

In my narrow diamond tactic I tend to use at least one ultra aggressive mezzala paired with a more defensive fullback (almost like a wide centreback or inverted wingback in defence) to give him more space to operate on the wing. I like to play the role according to its description, meaning a central winger. One of the best players that i played in this role was Saka at Arsenal. Especially after he develops after a season or two, he has all the perfect attributes for it. Lighting-fast acceleration, great workrate, off-the-ball and other attributes. Dribbling. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by crusadertsar

[HanziZoloman]

Sounds very good, I’ll try

@crusadertsar you have a topic about this somewhere here?

Edited January 19, 2022 by HanziZoloman

[crusadertsar]

8 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Sounds very good, I’ll try

@crusadertsar you have a topic about this somewhere here?

Haha, nope. Not yet. But I'm planning to write about my recent experience in trying to adapt a narrow diamond into a Total Football-style tactic in my Total Football thread. Soon.  Just amassing more data and testing the tactic a bit more with Torino. 

Had a really great crop of youngtsters at Torino in 2nd season who were especially suited to narrow tactics and couldn't resist trying it out. 

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by crusadertsar

[HanziZoloman]

N1 @crusadertsar this is a good chap. How will bring his ACC up? I had a similar player but couldn’t train his ACC. I tried „everything“ but it didn’t move up.

i am looking forward to your writings.

[stuartlaw11]

Do you use any opp instructions for the tactic in OP?

[Novem9]

1 час назад, stuartlaw11 сказал:

Do you use any opp instructions for the tactic in OP?

Nope, only PI mentioned in dm

[3rik]

I have made a few changes but still missing something it feels like in the tactic.

BWM to CM(D). My BWM conastantly got bad ratings and it felt like the player did not contribute in the short passing game. Wanted a more involved player in the middle to shift sides.
Left back to defense. Felt like the opposition used my left flank to easily when going round the flanks. This may be changed back when i get a new leftback that does not "hug line" and "goes forward when possible". When he plays and hugs line the oppostion run inside of him to score easily. 
DLF to CF(S) and removed stay wider. MY player got to isolated and the flank and did not score. He made crosses as assist and that wa about all he contributed with. 

Thinking about set my AM to PI "Shoot less" to force him to make som deadly passes instead. 
 

@crusadertsarwould love a thread about your tactic above. Looks really interesting.

[francesco1908]

why didn't you use a carrillero instead of a b2b?

[francesco1908]

Il 11/1/2022 in 12:01 , HanziZoloman ha scritto:

Nice work mate! I already found something to play like this in @Rashidi old topics: mastering Movement.

This FB in holding position looks interesting. I also play a 4312 with satisfying  effort but by the big clubs in the league (Germany) I get crushed most of the time. Like having 7 Clear Cut Chances against me or suffering conceding 5 goals … how do stay defensively solid against better opponents?

if you touch the mentality you change the team familiarity. Rather you act in the individuals.

[francesco1908]

Il 19/1/2022 in 10:22 , HanziZoloman ha scritto:

I had to change my formation. Next season we lost everything with this 4312 after it has given us the best place the year before. My striker is jammed and nothing works out. 
Did you had this phases too? 
My formation was like this:

        Pa DLFs

             AMs

 DLPs MCd MEZs

FBs CDd CDd FBa

           SKd

TI higher DL / Lower LOE

pass into space / counter / get stuck in

PI CD mark tighter / Strikers and AM close down more / FBs hold position 

you see any flaws?

remember that support roles tend to play horizontally. Your module is inclined to attack vertically

[Novem9]

22 часа назад, francesco1908 сказал:

why didn't you use a carrillero instead of a b2b?

I don't really like being MEZ and CAR in the same formation. I know it works fine for some members, I found another decision.