Time wasting on frequently should be named "lets condede some and loose the game"

[blejdek]

Literally always

It doesnt matter if i employ it in 50, 60, 70, 80, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91... BOOM, I concede the goal the next minute, sometimes even two more goals. 

I get it, use it sensible, its two edged sword etc., but its just funny how there is literally the more chance for the opponent to score than it is in without time wasting. 

When the opponent uses it, ofcourse I watch the seconds on clock goes by like a goddamn train. This is not normal banter, this is the statistics banter or should I say something I noticed over a season in league.

Anyone else ?

[HUNT3R]

If the opposition can use it effectively, you can too. It's the same ME. I often have to switch to a more cautious, time-wasting tactic if I'm ahead against much better opposition. It 'works' more than half the time at least, which I'm happy with. If they're stronger than my team, they should sometimes be able to break my through defense. If they do break through, it's not as immediate as in your case. It sounds like you're not as solid defensively as you think or that your team is one of the weakest in the league. Could that be the case?

When I switch to something more cautious, the tactic is a bit more reserved (Incl Mentality, Roles, Duties etc) compared to what I normally use. It includes time wasting, of course. I also try and make substitutions where it makes sense. Something like taking off my attacking fullback with low strength and average tackling for someone more defensively minded and ready to bully opposition wingers. Or subbing a more offensive midfielder with more of a tank of a player, to assert himself in midfield and be more of a tackling threat.

[sporadicsmiles]

What else are you changing when you are trying to see out a game? Because I have no issues using waste time. It does exactly what it should. My players take longer to do any kind of dead ball, and they will do that keep it in the corner thing.

To me it seems like one of two things are happening.

1. You are making other changes alongside waste time that are making you too passive, too deep, or both.
2. You are not reacting at all to the AI attacking you to come back, and if you start from some aggressive tactic you are easy to attack and concede. 

It is impossible to tell which without knowing what changes you make in these situations. Or do not make, as the case may be. If you only use waste time, then it could be you recognise the AI is doing something different but fail to respond properly. Give some more details on how you set up the team and how you make changes to hold a lead and maybe we can give more advice.

[Lord Rowell]

5 hours ago, blejdek said:

Literally always

It doesnt matter if i employ it in 50, 60, 70, 80, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91... BOOM, I concede the goal the next minute, sometimes even two more goals. 

I get it, use it sensible, its two edged sword etc., but its just funny how there is literally the more chance for the opponent to score than it is in without time wasting. 

When the opponent uses it, ofcourse I watch the seconds on clock goes by like a goddamn train. This is not normal banter, this is the statistics banter or should I say something I noticed over a season in league.

Anyone else ?

No.

As already said, has to be employed in framework of a tactical set-up consistent with that phase of the game. I've been very effective at killing off a game in its final stages even against opposition bigger than my Aberdeen side.

[Mars_Blackmon]

There is no context to how you are using it. Using that with a highly attacking setup logically will give up goals.

[alian62]

I never go defensive at all . I just slow the tempo right down 

[luka_zg]

I use it always when ahead, on 65th minute I put it on sometimes and on 75th I put it on frequently. Served me well. Ofc there are other stuff like lower tempo, slightly lower LOE, sometimes some role adjustments etc combined with time wasting.

[kentonizking]

What are your lines like?

 

Anything below standard is suicide, I would blame low defensive lines, with defensive mentality over time wasting. 

[PandaIsland]

I feel the same way that it doesn't work but rather than waste time just put cautious and lower temp and remove attacking duties

[HUNT3R]

4 hours ago, kentonizking said:

Anything below standard is suicide

I use a lower D-line with a standard LoE and that works for me. Balanced Mentality. If I don't lower the DL, it's too high and I get picked apart by through balls. Slightly more cautious duties as well, with time wasting.

[sporadicsmiles]

4 hours ago, kentonizking said:

Anything below standard is suicide, I would blame low defensive lines, with defensive mentality over time wasting. 

This is one of the more pervasive myths in football manager at the moment. It is true that you are unlikely to get long term sustained success with a tactic with a low defensive line, and you probably want to be a bit more proactive in a base tactic. However there is nothing wrong with using it to see out a win if you are expecting to get attacked hard by an equal or better team. The problem I think people have is not that they use a lower DL. They couple it with a lot of other changes that results in entirely passive play with zero attacking threats and no plan other than sit and do nothing. Going more defensive does not mean you can ignore your attacking phases. Indeed you probably want to put thought into how you plan to get out of defence.

[Mars_Blackmon]

4 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

This is one of the more pervasive myths in football manager at the moment. It is true that you are unlikely to get long term sustained success with a tactic with a low defensive line, and you probably want to be a bit more proactive in a base tactic. However there is nothing wrong with using it to see out a win if you are expecting to get attacked hard by an equal or better team. The problem I think people have is not that they use a lower DL. They couple it with a lot of other changes that results in entirely passive play with zero attacking threats and no plan other than sit and do nothing. Going more defensive does not mean you can ignore your attacking phases. Indeed you probably want to put thought into how you plan to get out of defence.

Agree, it’s all about balancing risk. My current tactic does fine with a low block but it’s also balanced with higher risks to balance out some of the low risk instructions.

 

I think this idea that it’s useless stems from playing high lines and attacking (and pressing) is grossly over powered in FM despite what kind of team you have. The reason I’m even using a low block system is because my team isn’t talented enough defensively but I can simply ignore that and take advantage of the game playing in a gegenpress style (I’ll give up loads of goals in the process but I will also outscore everyone) but it’s no fun in that…

[pdmalcolm]

I never drop below cautious, I never drop my line below standard, my normal "see the game out" routine is to drop to my more defensive formation, switch timewasting half way and turn the tempo down to "lower". In injury time I'll normally turn tempo all the way down and timewasting all the way up. No issues on the timewasting. Can you post up the screenshots of you conceding literally every time you do it?

[Jack722]

On 01/02/2022 at 08:06, kentonizking said:

What are your lines like?

 

Anything below standard is suicide, I would blame low defensive lines, with defensive mentality over time wasting. 

In my experience this is absolutely not true for FM22. in previous FM's I would've agreed, but the changes to pressing has made low block systems very much viable.

I regularly see out games in low blocks now:

Lower dline

Lower loe

Fewer pressing triggers

Defensive mentality 

[kentonizking]

19 minutes ago, Jack722 said:

In my experience this is absolutely not true for FM22. in previous FM's I would've agreed, but the changes to pressing has made low block systems very much viable.

I regularly see out games in low blocks now:

Lower dline

Lower loe

Fewer pressing triggers

Defensive mentality 

Not in my experience, but interesting discussion nevertheless. 

[Svenc]

If (BIG IF) the AI actually consistently long-term does anything better, it's down to their overall tactics -- for which SI get numerous feedback each year, and sometimes even listen (even though they realize it will spring more complaints from players).

"Time wasting" in game to best effect has never been a single button solution (for better or worse, depending on whom you ask).

If you want to time waste by recycling the ball, for instance, where is that easier done? Way up in the final third or on deeper areas, where the ball can be recycled much easier, provided players don't run forward from their position and stay deep there? How is that achieved? What does the AI actually do? Can you copy it? 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Svenc

[DarJ]

15 hours ago, Svenc said:

If you want to time waste by recycling the ball, for instance, where is that easier done? Way up in the final third or on deeper areas, where the ball can be recycled much easier, provided players don't run forward from their position and stay deep there? How is that achieved? What does the AI actually do? Can you copy it? 

I don't think there is a perfect answer for where waisting time by recycling the ball is easier since there is no instruction to tell the players to take the ball to the corner flag where if the lose it, it could either be a throw in or corner for you and if it's for the opposition you get the chance to regroup. If you do it in your own half and lose the ball then the opposition is closer to your goal and if you do it high up the pitch then you risk counter attacks. 

What I can tell you tho is that the mistake most people make when trying to waste time is they just drop the lines and maybe mentality and think that's it. 

Let's take the famous gegenpress for example, the team is probably in attacking mentality with high lines, pressing to the max, prevent short GK distribution, high tempo, counter press and counter etc. Then you consider that you may have your front 3 on attack duties and one of your full backs or both on attack as well. If you want to see out a game and just drop to balance and lower your lines without doing anything else you'll find out that it doesn't help that much first of all because of the distribution of roles. If you want to waste time by keeping the ball you need a lot of support and you want the team to go up together and come back together. Another thing is you want to keep your shape as much as possible so you probably also want to regroup when you lose the ball and hold shape when you in it and then reduce your pressing (you can leave it on standard) what that does is your team will no longer break shape to press when they lose the ball and when you win it they wait for support increasing your chance of keeping the ball. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by DarJ

[Mst82]

I often go higher tempo when trying to see out games as I find it’s the only way to deal with the relentless pressing from the AI. Most of the time it seems to work with a low D-line and the keeper slowing the game down (even though those two instructions sort of contradict each other). I daren’t touch the time wasting bar until the 92nd mind you!