bere23 Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 A lot of times finding myself overcomplicate things on tactical creation or in game with TI changes,these actions bring me almost everytime disappointment and rage.Rage for the reason im not keeping things simple and logical!First of all i hope dont get bored about my post and if anyone wanna give me his vision about tactics should be welcome.Anyway lets get it from the begining,first of all im trying to build a tactic based on possesion game not for sake possesion.Just want my team have patience and more quality than quantity!!But let me show my tactical thought and trying to explain my logical thinking on how to achieve it. Well as you can see i picked this based on my simple logic.My first thought was if want to play possesion game i need my players close to each other and having near support and passing options.lets take closer look First of all i picked Positive Mentality because i want my team a bit higher on the pitch and press a bit,when you try to have the ball then when you lose the ball you have to chase the ball from opponent but if noticed i didnt touch the out of possesion instructions.I will rely on pressing from Positive mentality which is already aggresive on pressing and i have my player high on the pitch.Sometimes i adjust it in game. My roles as you can see was set to have passing option near to every player and support them,i didnt choose any ATC duty because i dont want isolation in any area or long distances for my players.Somebody will say that i luck penetration but thats not true.Already playing on high mentality and if i choose for example an ATC duty with this mentality then i will increase isolation in that area. Thats all for now,and i will explain later my roles and more on what about im trying to do.Thank you for reading and please free to say your opinion,i will be happy to discuss! P.S sorry for my english!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Ace Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Excellent @bere23!! Looks good, look forward to reading some more Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach vahid Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) Great. Leave the line of engagement and the defensive line on default.I think about it more and more and just change it with the mentality. But it scares me. Edited February 8, 2022 by coach vahid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bere23 Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 Thank you @Johnny Ace and @coach vahid Well let me explain about my roles and how i picked them. GK: Dont need explanation i think i choose SK for the reason my def line is higher. DC's: Again here i picked standard Central Defenders "but" not exactly same players.I mean i prefer one more strong DC and the other i prefer more likely BPD but with CD role because i dont his risky passes or long passes.Remember i want possesion and wanna build from the back. DR: Here i picked WB because i want to support my IW and when he can overlap the space that my IW leaves.I know i have a big gap on the wings so my WB has Get Further Forward and Run wide so he keeps width on that flank when IW cuts inside.Plus IW doesnt have Attacking mentality with my Team mentality(Positive) which means he isnt so attacking like my IF on the other flank DL:On this flank i picked FB because hes not so forward thinking like WB and want him to support the midfield and keep depth and cover for my IF upfront.but sometimes i use one FB with PPM Get Forward if i feel i can push a bit on flanks.Again as u can see i have my players in areas that gives to teamates passing option and not isolations. DM: Well here maybe you think why i havent my DM on defend..first of all i picked DM because he can defend and play passes from the back.Plus i want him to step a bit forward to support my midfield and keep close distance with all team as im pressing higher on the pitch and dont have gaps.if i didnt press maybe i choose another more passive role like Anchor. MCL: Here i have MC role who does a bit of everything,its for me the role who keeps balance on midfield.He can defend,support,pass and even join with with lateral moves in final third.But priority is to support FB,the midfield and IF.Remember IF is a bit more attacking which means he will be higher on the pitch but not so high because of his duty(sup).So i dont want have a player who push also higher in that area and get the space which i want my IF want to take with his inside runs. MCR: BBM thats why i picked him on that flank near to my IW,his job is run up and down supporting passing and entering the final third.but not his priority as i dont want penetration here,i want support first and close to team mates for passing options.if i want penetreation i maybe would chose a more attacking role.Now maybe you will think that BBM gets in the same way of my IW runs inside...well sometimes yeah but not regularly because IW starting wider so im ok with that AMR: IW here,what i want from him is simply again to support my F9 by cutting inside and to half spaces.Plus i want to keep busy the opponent FB by cutting inside and leave the space for my WB to run into.Most of the times when he cuts inside hes has passing options of DM and BBM and F9.But he can also pass a through ball to BBM who has ventured forward.I've tested also here AP but later i didnt like it because he was bit deep and too close on my BBM.Now the game play is more natural and dont have a ball magnet here. AML: Here is my Goalscorer Priority IF.He has the highest mentality on the team which means hes more aggresive with his runs and bit higher on the pitch.Afterall i dont want possesion for the sake.He supporting my F9 and trying to exploit any spaces in the final third. ST: And finaly here is F9 which i want him to drop very deep to link play and support midfield.I could choose DLF or CF but they dont drop so deep and they have move into channels.I dont want that,i want him centraly as im having players to make moves there.Also hes creative enough and more mobile role so he can turn and pass or dribble or make that sweet through ball.Although his priority is to drop very deep as i dont have any aggresive role in midflied.My midfield make supporting and lateral runs. Well guys thats my thinking about roles,please if anyone can suggest any opinion i would like to hear it Next i will try and post some examples where i struggle and i really want your thinking how to solve it Thank you!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bere23 Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 Example of play Here you can see my IW on ball.first of all look how nicely my team is close to each other and how many options he has for pass.He dragged the LB to him and look the gap immediatly appeared..My RWB keeps busy the AML and is already running to the space my IW left..Also look the the opponent how deep he is.. Few seconds later IW passed the ball to my DM(remember what i explained in roles?) Again look how nice and close are my player and passing optionshe has,now here if you notice im high on the pitch which i want it.But a wrong pass here my opponent can exploit the space in my right wing back gap,look no.15 of fulham how much space he has to run into.Its a risk im willing to take it.. And finally here we scored,but look how enjoyable play we have here...A lot of words here i want to say...So lets start..DM pass to bbm and he immediately released the through ball on the gap in half space..Now take a look how my F9 is centaly as i want and dont take move into channels.he keeps busy the dcs..next IF keeps busy the RB.Also look on the other flank the LFB who keeps the depth and cover for my IF and LCM how nicely balance the midfield. Well that was an example how my play is.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach vahid Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 First of all, i'm still on fm19 so I don't know the Inverted winger. On the chosen roles, i like your explanation and the logic behind that. In my "version", i will try to have behind my inside forward who cuts inside, the wingback who provide the width and attack the space behind the inside forward. In front of the fullback, a classic winger who stretch the defense. And that's here, for me a problem, because it will be gaps between players, and that's not that you want, but it can be solved, maybe with in the midfield, a mezzala on the winger's side, and behind the winger, not a fullback anymore, but an Inverted wingback. Of course, it's just a theory and not your tactic anymore 🙂. The truth is im afraid when you will facing team who parked the bus. But I stay curious and intent to the implantation of your work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bere23 Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, coach vahid said: First of all, i'm still on fm19 so I don't know the Inverted winger. On the chosen roles, i like your explanation and the logic behind that. In my "version", i will try to have behind my inside forward who cuts inside, the wingback who provide the width and attack the space behind the inside forward. In front of the fullback, a classic winger who stretch the defense. And that's here, for me a problem, because it will be gaps between players, and that's not that you want, but it can be solved, maybe with in the midfield, a mezzala on the winger's side, and behind the winger, not a fullback anymore, but an Inverted wingback. Of course, it's just a theory and not your tactic anymore 🙂. The truth is im afraid when you will facing team who parked the bus. But I stay curious and intent to the implantation of your work. Im on FM20 too..thanks for reply buddy.Let me answer you.For me your thinking is right,but...thats not how i want to play as you said.Because it doesnt fit in my style of play i want to build here.If i wanted a more balanced game then your logic fits Now about teams who sits deep i watch and if i think play good i dont change anything.If u noticed on the recent example Fulham was deep and played cautious but i remained on positive plus i didnt have any ATC duty..this game i won 0-4 and do you know why?Actually im playing live right now and give you my examples.well in 2nd half Fulham changed to positive and became more attacking to me and pressed me.When i saw this i made only two changes...These changes were the tempo...Because i wanted to move the ball quickly and escape the press of them and removed WBIB.i didnt want so much patience in my game now.if i managed to escape the press and move the move ball in the final third i didnt want so much patience to find the best opportunity to score.i had the advantage that fulham was high and wanted not to delay on final third because if i had delay,fulham would return back to shape The final score btw came at 0-4 I hope i covered you and a big thanks to all this to @Cleon because this way i only focus on what my team does and not the opponent Still have probles which i will discuss here and maybe help me 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bere23 Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 Example of a heavy loss... In this example i didnt know how to react and i need your opinion... Here their GK kicked a long kick and found me on the backfoot..no9 headed the ball back to Doumbia,he took the control moved a bit and made that long pass to the back of RWB and they scored...At this point Wolves was playing on cautious so definately was a counter attack against me...BUT personally i dont think i have so much space behind my def line to exploit it..So i think it was a bad anticipation from my WB and also from my player close to doumbia who didnt win the ball there.. Again after we finished our attack their GK hit the that long ball again...this time he finds their ST no.12.Although my DC lost the aerial battle who stepped to challenge him. So their ST give the ball to Zaracho who runs a bit and make that ball to the gap and they scored...I hold my nerves and thinking is it an individual mistake again?are my Def Line is so high?I dont touch anything... In this example i see a total mess..It started from that throw-in and i already see my no.3 which is my LB marking their AMR..why he should go there??i dont have tight or man marking on him..anyway next mess is my dc and dm mark close no.9 and totaly wrong,they dont even have him in front of them..few seconds later Second after throw-in carroll(no.12) receives all alone the ball and made a run and pass to half space to his team mate.. Zaracho then runs and cross the ball to left flank to no.7 and of course scores...I mean why my DC(no.6) has so terrible positioning?what is he doing there and leave this huge gap.I understand that he went for cover but......Anyway at this time i changed my mentality to balanced just to drop my team a bit and changed tempo to higher because Wolves even if they played cautious they pressed me,and removed also WBIB.Maybe i should react earlier but i didnt totaly understand whats going wrong.I managed to score but then Wolves moves on positive mentality and it was too late.the game was lost.. Sorry for long posts but i want to learn from my mistakes and see what im doing wrong.. I hope somebody see this and respond on how you should react Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach vahid Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 We think that we find someting and one game later...🙂 Sometimes its just the players qualities...its not a big deal. They got just one clear cut chances. It happens. Pay attention on the next match...if it happens again, there's a problem. I think playing with a dm on defend will resolve a part of the marking problem. Maybe of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bere23 Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 21 minutes ago, coach vahid said: We think that we find someting and one game later...🙂 Sometimes its just the players qualities...its not a big deal. They got just one clear cut chances. It happens. Pay attention on the next match...if it happens again, there's a problem. I think playing with a dm on defend will resolve a part of the marking problem. Maybe of course. Actually i noticed when the ball get on flanks my defence line positioning is terrible..especially of my CD's..they are almost one on top of each other or not close to opponent attackers..i dont if its attribute issue,for example bad marking attribute Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptCanuck Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 21 hours ago, bere23 said: Example of a heavy loss... In this example i didnt know how to react and i need your opinion... Here their GK kicked a long kick and found me on the backfoot..no9 headed the ball back to Doumbia,he took the control moved a bit and made that long pass to the back of RWB and they scored...At this point Wolves was playing on cautious so definately was a counter attack against me...BUT personally i dont think i have so much space behind my def line to exploit it..So i think it was a bad anticipation from my WB and also from my player close to doumbia who didnt win the ball there.. Again after we finished our attack their GK hit the that long ball again...this time he finds their ST no.12.Although my DC lost the aerial battle who stepped to challenge him. So their ST give the ball to Zaracho who runs a bit and make that ball to the gap and they scored...I hold my nerves and thinking is it an individual mistake again?are my Def Line is so high?I dont touch anything... In this example i see a total mess..It started from that throw-in and i already see my no.3 which is my LB marking their AMR..why he should go there??i dont have tight or man marking on him..anyway next mess is my dc and dm mark close no.9 and totaly wrong,they dont even have him in front of them..few seconds later Second after throw-in carroll(no.12) receives all alone the ball and made a run and pass to half space to his team mate.. Zaracho then runs and cross the ball to left flank to no.7 and of course scores...I mean why my DC(no.6) has so terrible positioning?what is he doing there and leave this huge gap.I understand that he went for cover but......Anyway at this time i changed my mentality to balanced just to drop my team a bit and changed tempo to higher because Wolves even if they played cautious they pressed me,and removed also WBIB.Maybe i should react earlier but i didnt totaly understand whats going wrong.I managed to score but then Wolves moves on positive mentality and it was too late.the game was lost.. Sorry for long posts but i want to learn from my mistakes and see what im doing wrong.. I hope somebody see this and respond on how you should react Hard to tell in a single screenshot and not the whole movement, but your DC(6) is doing what you'd expect him to IMHO and everyone is covered TBH. It's just one of those things, guy gets a good cross in and the Wolves left winger/left forward attacks the ball while your WB and other DC are likely static and ball watching. Is this always how team's score against you? If so, then you can change your defensive width to try and reduce crosses and make them battle it out with your 3 man midfield more. Sometimes... well maybe a lot of times... tactic doesn't matter. Some team will have your number, they are on a run of matches with high morale and the like and you're going to get stuffed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bere23 Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 18 minutes ago, CaptCanuck said: Hard to tell in a single screenshot and not the whole movement, but your DC(6) is doing what you'd expect him to IMHO and everyone is covered TBH. It's just one of those things, guy gets a good cross in and the Wolves left winger/left forward attacks the ball while your WB and other DC are likely static and ball watching. Is this always how team's score against you? If so, then you can change your defensive width to try and reduce crosses and make them battle it out with your 3 man midfield more. Sometimes... well maybe a lot of times... tactic doesn't matter. Some team will have your number, they are on a run of matches with high morale and the like and you're going to get stuffed. No,no at all i would say that most of goals i concede is like this.But i noticed almost every time bad positioning of my def line especially from DC's.While it seems my defenders are close to opponent they still score against me.Another issue i have and i dont know how to react is when the opponent striker push my def line back..Should i change def line higher so that maybe push him back or try to put my team a bit back so that my team dont leave much space? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptCanuck Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 57 minutes ago, bere23 said: No,no at all i would say that most of goals i concede is like this.But i noticed almost every time bad positioning of my def line especially from DC's.While it seems my defenders are close to opponent they still score against me.Another issue i have and i dont know how to react is when the opponent striker push my def line back..Should i change def line higher so that maybe push him back or try to put my team a bit back so that my team dont leave much space? Good question - like you I'm not a great decipherer on defense but you really need to watch the full match interspersed with comprehensive highlights for defense, to see as much of your movement vs theirs as possible and see where things first break down. Yes eventually they are near your 18yd box, but how did they get there. I play a simple/balanced tactic, but do have higher line, higher LOE, and more pressure selected. I think unless you are going to play counterattack style, there needs to be some extra oomph over the default. I built out a similar tactic, only using roles and few PIs and saw how that played out for a while. Seemed pretty open at the back, so then I applied those 3 things and saw the defense tighten up. Maybe something that simple is all you need? Another thing (again I am no expert) is what are you doing specifically to cut off service? I see in a couple examples Wolves were playing long balls, are you looking at their formation roles/stats and man marking their playmaker, if they have one? I will sometimes use my PF(s) and or RPM to man mark DLPs/RPMs or whoever is on the ball a lot for the opponent and that does help too. If you make a few changes like that and still see a lot of easy cross goals, then pushing out the width, or maybe even looking at your back 4 and if they are deficient in positioning/decisions/anticipation/etc... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bere23 Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, CaptCanuck said: Good question - like you I'm not a great decipherer on defense but you really need to watch the full match interspersed with comprehensive highlights for defense, to see as much of your movement vs theirs as possible and see where things first break down. Yes eventually they are near your 18yd box, but how did they get there. I play a simple/balanced tactic, but do have higher line, higher LOE, and more pressure selected. I think unless you are going to play counterattack style, there needs to be some extra oomph over the default. I built out a similar tactic, only using roles and few PIs and saw how that played out for a while. Seemed pretty open at the back, so then I applied those 3 things and saw the defense tighten up. Maybe something that simple is all you need? Another thing (again I am no expert) is what are you doing specifically to cut off service? I see in a couple examples Wolves were playing long balls, are you looking at their formation roles/stats and man marking their playmaker, if they have one? I will sometimes use my PF(s) and or RPM to man mark DLPs/RPMs or whoever is on the ball a lot for the opponent and that does help too. If you make a few changes like that and still see a lot of easy cross goals, then pushing out the width, or maybe even looking at your back 4 and if they are deficient in positioning/decisions/anticipation/etc... Yep sometimes i feel i am quite passive and dont press the opponent,No i dont look at formation roles/stats neither,usually i see that they overloading my flanks with attacking FB's.Now due to im playing with AMR/L they seem to exploit that gap,but i dont want change formation for example to draw back to MR/L positions.Also i have PIs to both my wide attacking players to tight mark but doesnt see to work..But my big problem is when the ball goes to flanks my def line positioning is terrible..sometimes i see both my dc's stuck in the striker without a reason and i dont have them on man or tigth marking Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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