Rotating properly between players for match fitness

[Brian]

Question: How do you rotate to keep match fitness OK for the players that sit on the bench while fighting relegation?

How do you manage this? During the international break, I have played 2 friendlies and right now the fitness it's decent. And I want to keep it that way. 

Currently I'm fighting relegation with Villarreal CF and every game is a must win. So I can't  say that I play my strongest 11 against Real Madrid, Barcelona or Atletico and rotating against Leganes, Mallorca or another mid-table or lower side. At some positions, like the left-back spot, I have 2 players that are almost equally good. At other positions it's clear that the bench player is not as good at the starting player. 

 

 

[phnompenhandy]

It's a tricky balancing act. You want to give your fringe and youth players game experience, but you don't want to lose points by sending out a weakened team. One thing I do is put all the subs and non-first team squad players in an U23s friendly for 60 mins. That way their fitness can be maintained without wearing them out. If you have league or cup ties against 'weaker' opponents, put 2 or 3 fringe players in the starting XI with strong cover on the bench.

[du Garbandier]

10 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

...put all the subs and non-first team squad players in an U23s friendly for 60 mins... 

That's harder to do in Europe (don't know about elsewhere). There isn't a U-23 competition the way there is in England. Often you can be sending players to the 2nd team, reserves or whatever they're called, and they stay unfit because the teams don't have scheduled matches. 

[DarJ]

2 hours ago, du Garbandier said:

Often you can be sending players to the 2nd team, reserves or whatever they're called, and they stay unfit because the teams don't have scheduled matches. 

You can make it do the staff organize friendlies in weeks where there is no match 

[Hovis Dexter]

I very often find that the second team / reserves / U23s don’t have allocated matches even though I tick the box asking the team manager to arrange friendlies in which case I arrange weekly friendlies myself and make any non match fit members of my first team available to to play in the next friendly.

[Platinum]

Remember  that playing first team players in your u23s will mean some of your youth players will miss out on game time. 

The reality is it's a problem that cant be solved and you have to weigh up the pros and cons of each option. No team in real life is able to keep every player at 100% match sharpness. For players that you know will play a role in the team try and make sure they get sub minutes.

[kingjericho]

I rotate as much as possible to keep everyone fit. I try not to change more than 5 players from one match to the next to keep some stability, though. Sometimes a good player may need to sit out one match, or if a match is going well I sub him off early to give him rest and play him again next match.

[du Garbandier]

A general remark about rotation, especially in relation to 'star' players. I wonder whether future FM editions might infer your rotation habits and include it in your manager profile so that players know where you stand. I've got a star player at the mo who starts throwing the toys if he doesn't get picked for every game, whereas I want him fully fit for the important games. His workrate is high, so he seldom finishes a game when fully fit, so picking him at 80% is essentially committing one of my sub options in advance.

[jmf1488]

You should pick your battles correctly. If you are in a relegation battle then maybe dont play your strongest team against teams who you will probably lose to anyway. La Liga is determined on H2H rather than goal difference. You have a better chance of beating the smaller teams so better idea to keep your strongest players to guarantee them points. Rather than using your star players to lose to Madrid then drop points against the relegation teams because your rotated side isnt strong enough.

In terms of keeping players match sharp. I like to set the training schedule to have a practise match on a Saturday of internationals so that the players who are still at the club will play a full 11 v 11 practise match during the week there is no game.

Other than that you need to use the bench players. Bring them off the bench if the game is already won. Its a fine balancing act. You need to be aware of your B team and their fixtures. If they play on the same day as you or the next day and you have some bench players you need to keep the fitness up then maybe allow them to play for the B team for 1 match for 60 or 90 mins. Be careful making players available if the B team plays before you. If they select your back up RW to play and you play the next day but your first choice RW picks up a knock then you have lost both players. I like to manage the availability of playing for the B team on a game by game basis.

The only way to keep them match sharp is for them to play matches unfortunately. Either first team or B team.

[du Garbandier]

6 hours ago, jmf1488 said:

I like to set the training schedule to have a practise match on a Saturday of internationals so that the players who are still at the club will play a full 11 v 11 practise match during the week there is no game.

That's a good thing to do provided you don't have a lot of internationals in the squad -- both full and youth. I got caught out doing that just recently and struggled to field a team for the friendly.

[jmf1488]

2 hours ago, du Garbandier said:

That's a good thing to do provided you don't have a lot of internationals in the squad -- both full and youth. I got caught out doing that just recently and struggled to field a team for the friendly.

I don't play friendlies. The guys on international duty get match fitness from the international games and the ones who remained at the club get fitness from the practise game in training.

Edited February 18, 2022 by jmf1488

[achortagus]

I am arragning friendlies for B team on the day after my mains team match. I.e. if main team is playing on weekends, i have B team friendlies on Monday.

I arrange them beforehand for 2-3 months, and then just mark players as available for B team on Sunday after main team match has finished.

 

 

[MrPompey]

A key problem with FM for a large number of releases is player stamina. There is far more rotation needed in game than there is players at clubs in real life. SI have tweaked it but its still not replicating real life

[rp1966]

34 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

A key problem with FM for a large number of releases is player stamina. There is far more rotation needed in game than there is players at clubs in real life. SI have tweaked it but its still not replicating real life

Stamina/fatigue is a real issue and was in FM21 to a lesser degree.  I'm not sure I've had a proper 1st 11 for any team I've managed in FM22 - there's just too much rotation needed to have anything that settled. It also affects your squad building as you need more first team ready players and it squeezes out opportunities to bring through younger players.

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by rp1966

[sdx15]

On 18/02/2022 at 11:23, MrPompey said:

A key problem with FM for a large number of releases is player stamina. There is far more rotation needed in game than there is players at clubs in real life. SI have tweaked it but its still not replicating real life

I'd argue the problem is natural fitness and how players recover after matches rather than stamina itself. The way stamina and pressing currently work seems fine because it's hard to gegenpress without rotation, but players with high natural fitness (16+) should be much less prone to tiredness and jadedness than players whose natural fitness is below, say, 12.

Edited February 19, 2022 by sdx15

[MrPompey]

7 hours ago, sdx15 said:

I'd argue the problem is natural fitness and how players recover after matches rather than stamina itself. The way stamina and pressing currently work seems fine because its hard to gegenpress without rotation, but players with high natural fitness (16+) should be much less prone to tiredness and jadedness than players whose natural fitness is below, say, 12.

In my experience I see it with players  with low, medium and high natural fitness. With a mid week game you have some players wanting to come off / being advised to take them off even before half-time as they look tired. The modern player is an athlete, many clubs in real life apply a press and counter press. You dont have 3 or 4 players desperate to come off at half-time because they are tired in real life playing mid-week having played the saturday before. The ME is too aggressive in my opinion here

[Kingstontom88]

On 18/02/2022 at 10:23, MrPompey said:

A key problem with FM for a large number of releases is player stamina. There is far more rotation needed in game than there is players at clubs in real life. SI have tweaked it but its still not replicating real life

Agree. It's beyond ridiculous in this edition.

[ImDaWeasel]

Natural Fitness and Stamina are beyond help in this version.

Just adapt the training to be less vigorous and pray to the gods come match day the % is back above 90.

[glengarry224]

Like a lot have written here, use reserve team friendlies.  But you do often have to schedule them yourself, especially for timing.  As @Platinumpointed out, if you play senior players in friendlies, youth players will miss out:  they will not only fail to play in the friendly but will lose that day of training.  It helps to identify your more important youth prospects and if necessary, play the senior player out-of-position to make sure they don't conflict.

Also, a player who is inferior, but fresh, will often play better than a tired starter.  And that starter might need the rest for future matches.  I like to plan out my (hopeful) rest games a few weeks in advance.  Of course, injuries interfere.

If you schedule a senior friendly during a break, put some youth prospects on the bench.  Then, during the match, you can see when the senior player has reached match fitness and sub in the youth player for some good senior experience.

[Mars_Blackmon]

On 18/02/2022 at 05:23, MrPompey said:

A key problem with FM for a large number of releases is player stamina. There is far more rotation needed in game than there is players at clubs in real life. SI have tweaked it but its still not replicating real life

I don't think so tbh. give a player a rest day after a game and you'll be fine. Also teams that gegenpress irl doesn't do it all game. I don't think the average player tinker with end game strategies other than making subs.

[MrPompey]

10 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

I don't think so tbh. give a player a rest day after a game and you'll be fine. Also teams that gegenpress irl doesn't do it all game. I don't think the average player tinker with end game strategies other than making subs.

Let me know what tactic you are using that means your players can play Saturday and mid week pretty regularly with no to minimum rotation with no fitness issues and players not crying to be taken off because they are tired

[Mars_Blackmon]

8 hours ago, MrPompey said:

Let me know what tactic you are using that means your players can play Saturday and mid week pretty regularly with no to minimum rotation with no fitness issues and players not crying to be taken off because they are tired

I’m currently using a Possession based tactic, short passing but a higher tempo. Less pressing. Standard lines.

 

But don’t move the goal post. 
 

no one said anything about perfect fitness levels. If I was able to play this game and not have any of those issues you just name then I wouldn’t be playing FM. But yes for the most part my key players play mostly every game. Rotation is needed as it is in real life.