The Forgotten Roles – the Wide Target erm Forward

[Johnny Ace]

Hanging around the tactic boards, you see dozens of tactics, probably 90% of them all use the same roles, which is fair enough

 

I thought I'd have a play about with a role I've barely even looked at, the Wide Target Forward

 

Most wide players in the footballing World are pacey wingers or goal scoring inside forwards, so this role is a bit different

 

First, you need someone to play the role and searching the database, I found a Jay-Roy Grot

 

A physical beast that would cause most fullbacks a headache

 

Role wise, he's exactly what you'd expect, a Target Man but from over on the flank, as the ball moves up the pitch, he'll gravitate toward the far post. He doesn't have to dribble, he doesn't have to cross or put in through balls. Hold the fullback off, win headers and get in at that far post is more his line of work

 

But, he isn't just a great big immobile lump, he might just surprise you at times

 

At Viborg, we're predicted to finish bottom of the league and in March we're sitting pretty in third place thanks to Jay-Roy's 17 goals and his 6 4” team mate Ndione's 19

 

The tactic is real simple, it's not pretty football and it's not supposed to be. Both wide players on the right putting in crosses early, the full back behind him to overlap and support, an AM so he isn't stranded out there with his lack of pace. I could add TI's to emphasise things or it we're chasing a goal. It's looks defensively flimsy down the left and it is risky but sometimes it's gotta be done, no risk, no reward 

 

So, wherever you may be managing in the World of Football Manager, if you find yourself with a physically imposing wide forward, don't discount the wide Target Forward

[Cleon]

I love the WTM role and have used it a fair bit. The most fun I've had with it was recreating the Norwegian Flo Pass from the 90's. The WTM is massively underrated on FM though it always has been but like you've shown above, it can be brilliant.

[Johnny Ace]

17 minutes ago, Cleon said:

I love the WTM role and have used it a fair bit

Awesome!! I'm glad it has a fan, I thoroughly enjoyed using it 

18 minutes ago, Cleon said:

The most fun I've had with it was recreating the Norwegian Flo Pass from the 90's.

I spent ages looking back through for clips of a Flo pass, didn't see any but I'm not really set for it 

19 minutes ago, Cleon said:

The WTM is massively underrated on FM though it always has been but like you've shown above, it can be brilliant.

I was hoping this thread could kick start the role a bit and drum up some interest, you just never see it being used but it's great!  

[Tibalg]

I wanted to try this new position, your topic convinced me 😁

 

Could be interesting to have a list of players that could be PERFECT for this role, I’m sure we will have some surprise. 
 

To continue in the Norvegian spirit, I would love to see a John Carew type of player in this kind of role 

[w_x]

A shame that Mandzukic has retired, he would be perfect for this role

[Andrew Marines]

1 ora fa, Johnny Ace ha scritto:

I was hoping this thread could kick start the role a bit and drum up some interest, you just never see it being used but it's great!  

It has been used a lot in an italian online league. Gave the other managers a lot of headaches

[Johnny Ace]

6 minutes ago, Andrew Marines said:

It has been used a lot in an italian online league. Gave the other managers a lot of headaches

Fantastic! He sure can

I feel a central Target Forward can sometimes find his match vs a tall, strong, centre back. Up against fullbacks, it's nearly always a one sided match up 

[Johnny Ace]

1 hour ago, Tibalg said:

Could be interesting to have a list of players that could be PERFECT for this role

It's really difficult to find a good wide target forward, I'm sure many standard TF's can be retrained.

There's a good one in Italy, don't think I retrained him but I'll see if I can remember who he was  

[Andrew Marines]

49 minuti fa, Johnny Ace ha scritto:

There's a good one in Italy, don't think I retrained him but I'll see if I can remember who he was  

I follow Serie A so try to tell me the team

[Johnny Ace]

16 minutes ago, Andrew Marines said:

I follow Serie A so try to tell me the team

I'm pretty sure it was Serie B or lower, I've had a look through older saves and archived tactics and can't even remember the team sorry 

I will pipe  up if I find him though 

[Jhenri01]

Great thread!

Ive been with a wtm on support as a variation of my possession 433 /4231 tactic. Especially to counter high pressing teams. 
 

Need to find the right cm / fb roles on the wtm side to support the wtm. Your post gives me hope it can be a viable plan.

 

Will search for a higher strength wtm, see how that goes.

[Feddo]

I've used this in fm20 with an arsenal save where I put aubameyang as wtm. Had pepe and bellerin on the other side and Laurito Martinez in the center. Pretty letal attack which got me 2nd in the PL. 

So many times a cross from bellerin on a late run from PEA scored a goal. Especially against the bigger sides who usually have a more creative/attacking RB

[Tibalg]

il y a une heure, Feddo a dit :

I've used this in fm20 with an arsenal save where I put aubameyang as wtm. Had pepe and bellerin on the other side and Laurito Martinez in the center. Pretty letal attack which got me 2nd in the PL. 

So many times a cross from bellerin on a late run from PEA scored a goal. Especially against the bigger sides who usually have a more creative/attacking RB

It was much more a Ramdeuter than a WTM, no ? I can’t think of Aubame as a great header. Maybe with his haircut 🧑🏾‍🎤 😁

[Feddo]

It was more his length, the space and time he got and also bellerin gave good crosses. But no he is not the first person you think of when talking about this role. But with a system that works well you can mask the flaws to a certain degree, I guess

[Feddo]

I do have to say that I didn't intend to play with a wtm and so I never got a real target man. I started noticing that I was playing against some really small fullbacks and wanted to take advantage of that. And the only way that I could achieve that was by selecting the wtm role. Directing crosses to the 2nd pole helped, but only when I combined it with the wtm it started to click more often. 

So I didn't want it for the benefit of playing of a strong men, just purely for goals.  Flickons happend, but not that much. 

 

[isignedupfornorealreason]

C. Ronaldo might be a super fit for this, as his pace declines, because he's a monster for getting into position to smash in those crosses tbh. And he's still good enough with the ball to be a creative spark when he gets it.

[De Nile]

Didn't Larsson have a role like that at Barca, even though he aged he played across the front line making the most of the ball and quality (over quantity) passes.

[kalongtongan]

whether he likes to carry or play with the ball, or more like ping the ball like enganche at AMC?

[kingjericho]

I love this OP. Very simple, showing how a less common role can work with a fairly simple setup to maximize the role's potential. Well done

[Piperita]

I have a player who should be made for that role. 17 jumping reach, and 15 strength, balance and heading. I tried him for a few games as both WTMs and WTMa but that broke stuff for me. He took too much control of the match and diverted the focus from my interchanging AMa-F9 partnership and my world class opposing wing. I'd probably still have used it if the humble IWs wouldn't have such great movement this year that still results in *lots* of headed goals.

On another save that I only played for a little bit I was experimenting with two players. On a full supporter, one an aggressive attacker. They were both quite potent in their role and took lots of control but it somewhat "felt" weird to me. Probably because they tend to create too many non-highlights showing up and the absolute key highlights all look the same...

[Pulsoy]

On 08.04.2022 at 20:29, Johnny Ace said:

Hanging around the tactic boards, you see dozens of tactics, probably 90% of them all use the same roles, which is fair enough

 

I thought I'd have a play about with a role I've barely even looked at, the Wide Target Forward

 

Most wide players in the footballing World are pacey wingers or goal scoring inside forwards, so this role is a bit different

 

First, you need someone to play the role and searching the database, I found a Jay-Roy Grot

 

A physical beast that would cause most fullbacks a headache

 

Role wise, he's exactly what you'd expect, a Target Man but from over on the flank, as the ball moves up the pitch, he'll gravitate toward the far post. He doesn't have to dribble, he doesn't have to cross or put in through balls. Hold the fullback off, win headers and get in at that far post is more his line of work

 

But, he isn't just a great big immobile lump, he might just surprise you at times

 

At Viborg, we're predicted to finish bottom of the league and in March we're sitting pretty in third place thanks to Jay-Roy's 17 goals and his 6 4” team mate Ndione's 19

 

The tactic is real simple, it's not pretty football and it's not supposed to be. Both wide players on the right putting in crosses early, the full back behind him to overlap and support, an AM so he isn't stranded out there with his lack of pace. I could add TI's to emphasise things or it we're chasing a goal. It's looks defensively flimsy down the left and it is risky but sometimes it's gotta be done, no risk, no reward 

 

So, wherever you may be managing in the World of Football Manager, if you find yourself with a physically imposing wide forward, don't discount the wide Target Forward

 Cyle Larin is the most suitable name for this role.

[Johnny Ace]

On 21/04/2022 at 18:57, Pulsoy said:

 Cyle Larin is the most suitable name for this role.

He does look a great WTM 

[Overmars]

The movement shown in this thread look like ordinary IF/IW stuff for this match engine. For the last few FM versions, I think anyone with decent jumping/heading/bravery feasts on far post crosses.

The real difference I would expect with this role is seeing the player used as an outlet for defensive zone clearances and long balls. Do people see that happening more often than usual?

[Johnny Ace]

4 hours ago, Overmars said:

The movement shown in this thread look like ordinary IF/IW stuff for this match engine. For the last few FM versions, I think anyone with decent jumping/heading/bravery feasts on far post crosses.

Yeah he will, the role is just a set of instructions with a label, he's just not encouraged to dribble like an inverted forward but that doesn't mean he never will, just like any role in the game. I'm sure Jay-Roy would be fine as an Inside Forward but I'm just encouraging him to use his physique and skill set with the role I'm giving him  

4 hours ago, Overmars said:

The real difference I would expect with this role is seeing the player used as an outlet for defensive zone clearances and long balls. Do people see that happening more often than usual?

The Target and Playmaker roles certainly get more focus from the team 

[Johnny Ace]

On 09/04/2022 at 18:39, Andrew Marines said:

I follow Serie A so try to tell me the team

It was Lorenzo Lucca at Pisa in Serie B, I had to retrain to him to play wide 

[Johnny Ace]

On 20/04/2022 at 23:07, kingjericho said:

I love this OP. Very simple, showing how a less common role can work with a fairly simple setup to maximize the role's potential. Well done

Thanks! I always prefer simple, I'm not a fan of arm's length lists of instructions and multiple "spazzy" roles. I think this is the first year I've actually used a Mezzela   

[smeagoltonez]

Thanks for posting! Would you consider making the left sided fullback 'support' when you're holding onto a positive result towards the end of a game or just leave it as it is?

[Louisking1992]

Very good! Someone who might fit the bill in the future is Robin Gosens, unfortunately just signed for Inter but he actually looks the part! 

[Johnny Ace]

On 26/04/2022 at 19:32, smeagoltonez said:

Thanks for posting! Would you consider making the left sided fullback 'support' when you're holding onto a positive result towards the end of a game or just leave it as it is?

Absolutely, like I said, that side is venerable but serves a purpose 

[doc32]

This is amazing content, I really appreciate all the effort and thought put into this.

In this year's game my main focus was to create tactic that has two big men up front (TF-AF or TF-PF combinations), and to score a lot from crosses & set pieces whilst having a very solid defence. After lots of tinkering and seasons of experiments, I was able to be quite successful without pressing upfront & using a route one style that doesn't rely on possession. (attached some data from my save)

 

Seeing this post made me want to create a WTF-oriented tactic after switching teams and I have to admit it did not start off well! I did not realise how much I was relying on 2 pacey wingers with good crossing to make this system work. Not to mention moving away from 442 with two holding DM's feels like my defence has zero protection. (I have briefly experimented with 532, 424 & 4231 so far)

I will keep adjusting & trying, but this is a quite difficult style to pull off in game. My ultimate goal is to make this work with a WTF & TF at the same time!

Hats off to you for being successful with it!

[Johnny Ace]

9 hours ago, doc32 said:

This is amazing content, I really appreciate all the effort and thought put into this.

It was a lot of fun to put together, I'm glad you enjoyed it 

9 hours ago, doc32 said:

My ultimate goal is to make this work with a WTF & TF at the same time!

In the above, Marokhy Ndione was also 6' 4, even though I played him as a Pressing Forward, he was still a physical beast in the box. Playing him as Target Man would influence how the team played but we still benefited from his physical attributes. Plus, using a WTM, that's one player I'm asking to hold up the ball and dribble less, I wouldn't want any more of my attacking players doing that.