WBd, what kind of animal is this?

[kalongtongan]

What formation or what kind of teammates can complement the wingback defense?
I always hesitate to use that role when making tactics,
but often I find the player whose best role is WBd, even the players on my team whose best role is WBd.
These are some examples of WB/FB player profiles that are on my list because I am in winter transfer looking for rotational players in my team and on average they are WBd as the best role.

 

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Edited April 14, 2022 by kalongtongan

[robot_skeleton]

It's a role that doesn't move forward as much as the WB(s). But still does to some extent. Usually should be used when there is a very attacking player on the wing in front of him or Rensie for example used it so that the midfielder in front of him could run with the ball to wing more thanks to the conservative positioning of the WB(d). Any player who could be used in other fullback/eingback roles will be fine.

[kalongtongan]

@robot_skeleton , I'll try and see how it moves. I will give the results later after 5-10 games. thanks for the input, btw who is Rensie? I didn't buy anyone in the winter transfer, so there's plenty of time to buy the right players in the summer.

[kalongtongan]

Tomiyasu has only played twice as WBd, and is doing very well even though in the first game he only played about 60 minutes due to injury but his rating is satisfactory so far.
Now i understand why @Hoof-it chose WBd in his thread, he doesn't do anything big but still puts pressure on the opponent when we're on the attack., how he defended don't ask me it's already his role as WBd haha.

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Edited April 14, 2022 by kalongtongan

[kalongtongan]

And he still goes forward even though the hold position is hardcoded.

Edited April 14, 2022 by kalongtongan

[HUNT3R]

1 hour ago, kalongtongan said:

And he still goes forward even though the hold position is hardcoded.

He may not be making forward runs (because of Hold Position), but rather getting forward based on his tendency to dribble with the ball often.

[kalongtongan]

@HUNT3R, he came forward only to do cover for our MEZ and IW, if you look at his matches and the pass map he rarely made passes, more to do cover.
I have a few things to report. I will post it to this thread as soon as possible. it's almost working hours now hopefully I have some free time to report what I'm doing on WBd.

[HUNT3R]

3 minutes ago, kalongtongan said:

@HUNT3R, he came forward only to do cover for our MEZ and IW, if you look at his matches and the pass map he rarely made passes, more to do cover.
I have a few things to report. I will post it to this thread as soon as possible. it's almost working hours now hopefully I have some free time to report what I'm doing on WBd.

I love the role and pretty much every tactic I make has the role in it, so very interested to see/read your thoughts on it. 

[kalongtongan]

I started an experiment against WBd against Millwall. So far it's been going very smoothly.
But in the last four games I noticed something is not normal when I use WBd compared to FBs it worries me but I don't know what to do. until the last match I made a tweak to WBd in the early minutes, which was to stay narrow.
Everton are very dangerous in countering and penetrating, in fact it has been done by some of our opponents in the last four games.
WBd is a bit wide when compared to FBs and it becomes a gap by the opponent, because my DM is BWM and I leave the hold position unselected.
when WBD I chose to stay narrow we immediately dominated and Everton only got changes in those early minutes.

Tierney get better rating cos his got a goal.

 

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Edited April 14, 2022 by kalongtongan

[kalongtongan]

And we played Liverpool for the third time this season. the win from the game against liverpool depends on concentration and luck, apart from good tactics of course.
The first meeting away we dominated until somehow a penalty, Salah took it and then a goal, then Partey got a straight red card, and we lost 1-0.

Second game, I don't know if we were lucky or not? in the 16th minute Salah was injured and had to be replaced. Since then we beat Liverpool 3-0 at home with goals from Saka and Belotti plus an own goal from Tsimikas.

The third match was FA cup quarter-finals, playing away we won 1-0 only from a freekick that martinelli could take advantage of.

Apart from that our WBd played really, really well. Of course before the game I made some tweaks on my basic TI which is high tempo, hold shape and force opposition outside. both teams played badly on the attack side this is more a factor of concentration, mentality and luck. but what makes me happy is our defense especially WBd.

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Edited April 14, 2022 by kalongtongan

[kalongtongan]

hey look at us, who  would have thought, I'm not. hahaha...

only this goal happened in this match haha. I chose force opposition outside when "lukaku" was replaced in the 73rd minute. Our defense is really solid.

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Edited April 14, 2022 by kalongtongan

[kalongtongan]

i'm back with a report from our derby, yes NLD. after work, take a short break while hanging out with family, and immediately play fm after the situation allows me haha.

Away to WHL is always tough, pressure and tension because it's an important match in the title race this season and it requires good mentality and concentration. the first match against them we won 3-0 at that time I was still using FBs on the right side and the goal came from odegaard, and a brace from belotti in the last minute.

Our First XI against THFC. I forgot to make a tactical change. so I changed it during the pre-match. no counter press & high tempo, that's all.

Edited April 13, 2022 by kalongtongan

[kalongtongan]

16 hours ago, kalongtongan said:

i'm back with a report from our derby, yes NLD. after work, take a short break while hanging out with family, and immediately play fm after the situation allows me haha.

Away to WHL is always tough, pressure and tension because it's an important match in the title race this season and it requires good mentality and concentration. the first match against them we won 3-0 at that time I was still using FBs on the right side and the goal came from odegaard, and a brace from belotti in the last minute.

Our First XI against THFC. I forgot to make a tactical change. so I changed it during the pre-match. no counter press & high tempo, that's all.

There was a goal created in the 35th minute by Belotti, but it was ruled out by the referee and VAR. and then I realized it was Craig Pawson the referee.

change in the second half to be precise in the 68th minute of Gagliardini. martinelli and lokonga in the 72nd minute. as well as changes to tactics, standard tempo when entering the second half and counterpress plus a counter in the 90th minute.

 

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Edited April 14, 2022 by kalongtongan

[kalongtongan]

final result 0-0.
we can't match thfc at home, the stats say so but I'm not too disappointed because we didn't concede and managed to get a point there. even the fans in TL are proud of the players.
WBd didn't play well but also didn't play badly so we accept the result. but I came to the referee's dressing room why our goal was disallowed while shouting at craig pawson. he just kept quiet then gave me a yellow card, and i just walked out of the room.

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Edited April 14, 2022 by kalongtongan

[kalongtongan]

Almost at the end of the season, next week against newcastle in front of the fans at home.
I will give a conclusion based on my views and opinions based on my tactics when using WBd in the second half of the season, after that match.

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previously we won the FA Cup final against AFC Bournemouth 3-1. I made tweaks to WBd during that game in the first 10 minutes. Tight marker instructions at PI WBd because many times I saw WBd slightly wide when we were in a defensive position. so those instructions would keep him at least close to the opposing players around him.

You can see that the rating is very good, the CB next to him plays badly because DCR is not in bad stamina and it affects shortcomings such as jumping reach, strength decisions, matters relating to balls in the air, plus PPM Bring Ball out defense is a vulnerable trait if the player has dribbling, decision and concentration attributes below 13-14 on average.

in the two games before the FA Cup final we faced Norwich 5-0 at home and 0-0 away against Brighton. against Brighton. nothing to say, against Norwich we were clearly superior to everything and against brighton we played mostly rotation players only Ben White, Ramsdale and Tomiyasu were in the starting XI and at that time Ben white's stamina was also not good. His natural fitness is only 13. I plan to replace him in the second half with Gabriel. But disaster occurred in the early seconds, Diallo was injured and had to be replaced in the first minute of the match by Gabriel.

You can see the substitutes that come in, all of them are defensive players. because Wenger once said "if you can't win, then don't lose". That's my initial goal in this match, saving the best players for the FA Cup.

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Edited April 14, 2022 by kalongtongan

[kalongtongan]

Finally arrived at the end of my journey about how the role and duties of the WBd especially in my tactics in this regard. We ended it with a 5-0 win against Newcastle at home and at the same time made it official that we are the champions of the English Premier League with a 2 point advantage over ManUtd and Newcastle were officially relegated from the EPL because they are in 18th place in the standings.

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And now, the conclusion about WBd is based on my experience and opinion when trying these roles and duties in the tactics that I apply, of course this may differ from your opinion because of the different tactical approaches and playing styles. this may be biased but at least this thread becomes my personal reference when choosing roles and duties, especially in WBd.

The Wing Back From www.guidetofm.com

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My views are based on the tactics I employ

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The moments :

• when the team has the ball, WBd are slightly wide in the wing zone while the FBs are in the center position of the wing zone, maybe narrowing slightly and closer to the outside of the halfspace.
• when he gets the ball his behavior is similar to wb/winger in general, which is moving wide in the wing zone. he prefers to pass to his closest friend or if he doesn't get pressure on the opponent and he doesn't get the choice of passing to his closest friend he will overlap like wb in general and behave like a winger. The risks he will take are based on his individual mentality and it depends on the mentality of the team.

To be continued...

For Moderators: may I change the title of this thread?

Edited April 14, 2022 by kalongtongan

[Tsuru]

40 minutos atrás, kalongtongan disse:

Finally arrived at the end of my journey about how the role and duties of the WBd especially in my tactics in this regard. We ended it with a 5-0 win against Newcastle at home and at the same time made it official that we are the champions of the English Premier League with a 2 point advantage over ManUtd and Newcastle were officially relegated from the EPL because they are in 18th place in the standings.

  Mostrar conteúdo oculto

And now, the conclusion about WBd is based on my experience and opinion when trying these roles and duties in the tactics that I apply, of course this may differ from your opinion because of the different tactical approaches and playing styles. this may be biased but at least this thread becomes my personal reference when choosing roles and duties, especially in WBd.

The Wing Back From www.guidetofm.com

  Mostrar conteúdo oculto

My views are based on the tactics I employ

  Mostrar conteúdo oculto

The moments :

• when the team has the ball, WBd are slightly wide in the wing zone while the FBs are in the center position of the wing zone, maybe narrowing slightly and closer to the outside of the halfspace.
• when he gets the ball his behavior is similar to wb/winger in general, namely moving wide in the wing zone. he prefers to pass to his closest friend or if he doesn't get pressure on the opponent and he doesn't get the choice of passing to his closest friend he will overlap like wb in general and behave like a winger. The risks he will take are based on his individual mentality and it depends on the mentality of the team.

To be continued...

For Moderators: may I change the title of this thread?

I really liked your observations and conclusions. I have been developing a 4-4-1-1 and I think the WB-D is exactly what I need to play behind a playmaker and an IW-At. That is, I don´t want him to waste possession or behave on a very risky way, but as we use an inside-oriented wide midfielder, I would like him to overlap and cross the ball  when a safe/good opportunity appears. I will do some tests and let you know.

Have you also tested the WB-D with the overlap instruction? I think this is a very interesting and powerful tool as he keeps the PIs, which I think are very nice for a wingback, but his mentality moves up one notch so he is a little bit more adventurous. 

[kalongtongan]

14 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

I really liked your observations and conclusions. I have been developing a 4-4-1-1 and I think the WB-D is exactly what I need to play behind a playmaker and an IW-At. That is, I don´t want him to waste possession or behave on a very risky way, but as we use an inside-oriented wide midfielder, I would like him to overlap and cross the ball  when a safe/good opportunity appears. I will do some tests and let you know.

Have you also tested the WB-D with the overlap instruction? I think this is a very interesting and powerful tool as he keeps the PIs, which I think are very nice for a wingback, but his mentality moves up one notch so he is a little bit more adventurous. 

I rarely try playing with a 4-4-1-1 formation, but from my recent observations of WBd. I can immediately imagine, but don't jump to conclusions.
WBd may be designed with a deeper wing formation (CM strata). because for more advanced winger formations (AM strata) the distance between the two is very large. For overlap, every tactic that I make is always based on ball possession, so I rarely or never do it, you can give input about that here and surely many readers are waiting for the results of your observations.

[Tsuru]

6 minutos atrás, kalongtongan disse:

I rarely try playing with a 4-4-1-1 formation, but from my recent observations of WBd. I can immediately imagine, but don't jump to conclusions.
WBd may be designed with a deeper wing formation (CM strata). because for more advanced winger formations (AM strata) the distance between the two is very large. For overlap, every tactic that I make is always based on ball possession, so I rarely or never do it, you can give input about that here and surely many readers are waiting for the results of your observations.

Yeah, I think WB-D suits very well a deeper wing formation. I have a friend that uses one on a 4-4-2 on a very similar way that I am planning to do - his left flank is WB-D, BBM-Su and W-At, and it works very well for him. 

I also saw 4-1-4-1 DM Wide formations which employ a pair of WB-D and I think they can work too, depending on the team mentality, the way the midfield is organized and the advanced wingers ahead.

[kalongtongan]

5 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

Yeah, I think WB-D suits very well a deeper wing formation. I have a friend that uses one on a 4-4-2 on a very similar way that I am planning to do - his left flank is WB-D, BBM-Su and W-At, and it works very well for him. 

I also saw 4-1-4-1 DM Wide formations which employ a pair of WB-D and I think they can work too, depending on the team mentality, the way the midfield is organized and the advanced wingers ahead.

and that will be a continuation of my previous post, there are some things that I will continue but I can't let go of my activities irl haha.

[robot_skeleton]

On 13/04/2022 at 03:12, kalongtongan said:

@robot_skeleton , I'll try and see how it moves. I will give the results later after 5-10 games. thanks for the input, btw who is Rensie? I didn't buy anyone in the winter transfer, so there's plenty of time to buy the right players in the summer.

This is @keysi's post about the coperation between the WB(D) and the CM(s)+run with the ball ppm.
https://coffeehousefm.com/fmrensieblog/2022/2/15/fm22-should-i-stay-or-should-i-run-with-the-ball-wide

This is @herne79's post in which he used the WB(d) behind a trequartista.
https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/487345-no-tactic-and-lots-of-experimental-shouting/

Both these posts are awesome!

[kalongtongan]

@robot_skeleton thanks for the reference the https://coffeehousefm.com/fmrensieblog/2022/2/15/fm22-should-i-stay-or-should-i-run-with-the-ball-wide
@keysi writing in line with my views on what I will write later.

about @herne79 at https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/487345-no-tactic-and-lots-of-experimental-shouting/
I just read his OP and will continue after work.

[kalongtongan]

Teammates:

What kind of teammates can complement each other with WBd especially on the tactics I'm currently using which is 4-3-3 dm wide.

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The Back 4

• If there are 2 wb players, then it is wide enough, so the wide choice, especially the extreme wide, in the tactical instructions, I don't think it's necessary anymore.
• But if it remains selected then the choice of role in the dm position must really focus on being a pivot (hold position), because otherwise the horizontal distance between players is very wide and vulnerable to counterattack. At least one wb is given an additional sit narrow instruction, I also added a mark tighter instruction to my wbd, because when the opponent builds an attack, the position of my two wb is wide enough and can be a horizontal gap for the opponent to pass breakthroughs and move without the ball into the defense.
• Another option and perhaps the most ideal with my tactic is to give the FB role to the other side-back, support or attack. It will make the four defenders more compact in terms of horizontal distance.

The Half Space (MCL/MCR)

It is not recommended for you if you choose wide half space players like mezzala and carrilero in this case the 4-3-3 dm wide formation and that was mentioned by @keysi in his writing at https://coffeehousefm.com/fmrensieblog/2022/2/ 15/fm22-should-i-stay-or-should-i-run-with-the-ball-wide, and it's in line with my view

The reason is simple as I mentioned in The Back 4 section which is a horizontal gap, but is more in the 2nd third region, and it will make it more difficult for your DM to protect that area, your WB and mezzala or carrilero players are wide in their respective territories if there is a break from the opponent then that area quickly becomes their choice. The opponent can run with the ball in the area and make a breakthrough towards the forward if CB’s is provoked to stop it.

So, options other than carrilero and mezzala are more ideal in terms of my tactics which is 4-3-3 dm wide.

 

[kalongtongan]

My tactic at the start of the season.

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My tactic when using WBd in the second half of the season.

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I have to do some tweaks to this tactic as I explained in the previous post because this tactic is not ideal for me.

The tactics I will use next season.

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Untested but based on my experience and perspective in the second half of the season using WBd, I think this is quite balanced, maybe it could change.

And for this tactic I will no longer continue to report on the what and how of WBd anymore. because the observations and conclusions that I have posted previously are sufficient for my personal notes and references on how to use WBd.