Losing determination...

[Weston]

I'm expected to be battling relegation, so I assembled a very determined squad to help give us the mentality required to push through. We have the 2nd highest determination in the Bundesliga.

Because of this, I haven't been using mentoring, because there's no one with a high enough determination to positively impact my two young strikers. I thought the general high level of determination would be a positive influence on them regardless, but inexplicably, they've each lost an entire determination point.

Is this just because they're feeling a bit defeated from the fact that we're losing so many games and toward the bottom of the table, despite the fact we have always been clear of relegation and remain exceeding expectations? Or am I missing something else?

 

[HUNT3R]

Young players are influenced by Mentoring (if you have anything set up), the squads overall Personality or he may be taking after an influential player in his social group. Since you didn't set up any Mentoring, it will be one (or maybe even both) of the other reasons.

[HUNT3R]

19 minutes ago, Weston said:

Is this just because they're feeling a bit defeated from the fact that we're losing so many games

By the way, feeling deflated would be tied to morale. It won't cause attributes to drop.

[Weston]

12 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

Young players are influenced by Mentoring (if you have anything set up), the squads overall Personality or he may be taking after an influential player in his social group. Since you didn't set up any Mentoring, it will be one (or maybe even both) of the other reasons.

But the squad overall is the 2nd most determined in the 4th best league in the world. Why would that hurt him?

The most influential player in Poku's social group is a 16, and Poku went down from 17 to 16. Would it be that hard of a turn to his specific value..?

[HUNT3R]

5 minutes ago, Weston said:

But the squad overall is the 2nd most determined in the 4th best league in the world. Why would that hurt him?

You show your squad's average is 14, but you're complaining about players dropping to 17 and 16.

It may be that an influential player in the social group is influencing him as well.

[Prepper_Jack]

Determination does seem to drop as a result of play and team talks on occasion. I've noticed it when pushing the players hard, and they play hard and lose. However, I've also noticed the opposite. If they are being pushed hard against superior opposition and win, their determination may pop up a notch. The chance seems to be relatively low in both cases. Otherwise, if you have lots of staff and players with poor determination, expect that to have an impact on any high determination players you have, as the squad personality will gravitate everyone towards the mean, as will mentoring groups.

[sdx15]

Are your team leaders determined? If team leaders have low determination, that could bring down determination of less influential players in your squad.

[Andy1979]

Mentoring is used for personality as well. A good personality is more important than high determination.

[RealSmokePL]

I would perhaps take a look at all your coaching staff and check their determination, maybe if theirs is low it'll have an impact on your players?

[Weston]

58 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

You show your squad's average is 14, but you're complaining about players dropping to 17 and 16.

It may be that an influential player in the social group is influencing him as well.

I guess I didn't realize the regression to the mean was this intense. How does any player with above average determination not lose it in general, then? Is the only way to keep this from happening to have a captain with a very high level? Admittedly my captain and vice captain are 15 and 13.

But as I said, the most influential player in Poku's social group is a 16, so I guess I assumed being within 1 would be fine, not drag him down that 1.

[Weston]

2 minutes ago, RealSmokePL said:

I would perhaps take a look at all your coaching staff and check their determination, maybe if theirs is low it'll have an impact on your players?

They seem good to me:

[Weston]

And to add to that, losing an entire point immediately just seems stark with no real impetus for the change other than a vague decay, I guess. No other attribute changes that quickly unless there's an injury or some major factor like that.

[HUNT3R]

This doesn't happen in an instant.

You'll also receive reports, part of which will state "the squad's less desirable characteristics have had an effect recently" or "the squad's positive (I think?) characteristics have had an effect recently". I can't remember how often you get these reports.

It's worth mentioning that the opposite can also happen. Young players can see their Personality (including Determination) improve as well. 

[Weston]

13 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

This doesn't happen in an instant.

You'll also receive reports, part of which will state "the squad's less desirable characteristics have had an effect recently" or "the squad's positive (I think?) characteristics have had an effect recently". I can't remember how often you get these reports.

It's worth mentioning that the opposite can also happen. Young players can see their Personality (including Determination) improve as well. 

I get that, I just mean that other attributes show a slight arrow and change a decimal amount, in contrast.

[paz]

On 26/04/2022 at 06:41, HUNT3R said:

This doesn't happen in an instant.

You'll also receive reports, part of which will state "the squad's less desirable characteristics have had an effect recently" or "the squad's positive (I think?) characteristics have had an effect recently". I can't remember how often you get these reports.

It's worth mentioning that the opposite can also happen. Young players can see their Personality (including Determination) improve as well. 

How do I tell what the characteristic is that has changed? I can't see any attribute change, despite 'the squad's less desirable characteristics have had an effect recently'. So if it's a hidden attribute, that is observable by my assistant being around the team, why doesn't the assistant tell me which characteristic he is talking about?

[paz]

On 22/08/2023 at 14:30, paz said:

How do I tell what the characteristic is that has changed? I can't see any attribute change, despite 'the squad's less desirable characteristics have had an effect recently'. So if it's a hidden attribute, that is observable by my assistant being around the team, why doesn't the assistant tell me which characteristic he is talking about?

Perhaps you could log this as a feature request @Kyle Brown ?

[paz]

On 28/06/2024 at 10:06, paz said:

Perhaps you could log this as a feature request @Kyle Brown ?

@Kyle Brown did you see this message?

[HUNT3R]

12 minutes ago, paz said:

@Kyle Brown did you see this message?

Best thing to do, if you want SI to review a feature request, is to post here:

https://community.sports-interactive.com/forums/forum/353-football-manager-feature-requests-pcmac/

[PAPA Edien]

On 27/08/2024 at 11:46, HUNT3R said:

Best thing to do, if you want SI to review a feature request, is to post here:

https://community.sports-interactive.com/forums/forum/353-football-manager-feature-requests-pcmac/

i have a question about this tread ... ever since these dynamics were introduced the fm experience got worse for someone obsessed with stats ... i for instance have cole palmer as my main team leader at chelsea with low 12 determination and its effecting all my players determination negatively ... so the only way to fix this is to have great personality team leaders ... so i need to sell cole palmer(my favorite player) plus 5 other first team beasts that dominate europe just to fix the random determination or personality drops ... 

let me give you a VERY simple fix for this ... at the start of each save give us an option for the personalities to remain static so i can freely build a team and not have to worry about this joke of a mehanic that isnt even as realistic a you make it out to be ... 

if ronaldo who was always 20 determination came in to a team with giggs scholes and others in a fm24 save his 18 year determination would fall to 18 sooner or later ... with the only way of raising it mentoring ... im tired of this ******** .. just give those of us who dont like this a chance to keep the personality attributes static ... with nerfed mentoring it would work perfectly ...

plus those drops of personality when transfers happen are a joke ... i know why you did it ... but come on nobody loses his personality so often ... again just give of an option to get rid of this 

[Vänsterback]

On 13/09/2024 at 16:17, PAPA Edien said:

i have a question about this tread ... ever since these dynamics were introduced the fm experience got worse for someone obsessed with stats ... i for instance have cole palmer as my main team leader at chelsea with low 12 determination and its effecting all my players determination negatively ... so the only way to fix this is to have great personality team leaders ... so i need to sell cole palmer(my favorite player) plus 5 other first team beasts that dominate europe just to fix the random determination or personality drops ... 

let me give you a VERY simple fix for this ... at the start of each save give us an option for the personalities to remain static so i can freely build a team and not have to worry about this joke of a mehanic that isnt even as realistic a you make it out to be ... 

if ronaldo who was always 20 determination came in to a team with giggs scholes and others in a fm24 save his 18 year determination would fall to 18 sooner or later ... with the only way of raising it mentoring ... im tired of this ******** .. just give those of us who dont like this a chance to keep the personality attributes static ... with nerfed mentoring it would work perfectly ...

plus those drops of personality when transfers happen are a joke ... i know why you did it ... but come on nobody loses his personality so often ... again just give of an option to get rid of this 

If your team dominate Europe with your favourite player, what's the issue? Does it matter that your squad's average determination isn't the highest when you're winning anyway? If you sell Palmer in order to maximize one attribute within your team, that's your decision, not something the game forces you too.

[PAPA Edien]

its just annoying ... giving us an option to make personality stats static at the start of the game isnt to much to ask for ... like it was before the dynamics and everything worked well ... i dont know if you tried going on holiday for like 20 30 years ... the amount of high level personalites lowers significantly ... try it ... take a save from any youtuber and check it with genie scout ... 

in the long run this doesnt work ... 2 years ago i expained it in much detail and the mod agreed ... but then my post got deleted ... 

long term saves are just not the same ... in older fms it worked simpler and better(there were all types of personalities good and bad) ... this dynamic mechanic and that mechanic where you transfer a player and lose proffesionalism for no good reason is just dumb ... if you like these mechanics fine its on you ... but giving others the option to turn off dynamic personalites isnt to much to ask for is it ? 

[Brother Ben]

On 15/09/2024 at 16:49, PAPA Edien said:

its just annoying ... giving us an option to make personality stats static at the start of the game isnt to much to ask for ... like it was before the dynamics and everything worked well ... i dont know if you tried going on holiday for like 20 30 years ... the amount of high level personalites lowers significantly ... try it ... take a save from any youtuber and check it with genie scout ... 

in the long run this doesnt work ... 2 years ago i expained it in much detail and the mod agreed ... but then my post got deleted ... 

long term saves are just not the same ... in older fms it worked simpler and better(there were all types of personalities good and bad) ... this dynamic mechanic and that mechanic where you transfer a player and lose proffesionalism for no good reason is just dumb ... if you like these mechanics fine its on you ... but giving others the option to turn off dynamic personalites isnt to much to ask for is it ? 

The personalities will be worse due to them being unable to have bad ones for real players. 

I don't get the issue, in a game that doesn't represent much of a challenge once you are over the initial learning curve dealing with different personalities becomes a welcome challenge.  The same with dynamics.

How would I ever grow my youth players if they were static?  The game is a fluctuating world of its own as soon as you first press continue and thats a good thing imo.

Edited September 20 by Brother Ben