4-2-3-1 Narrow Vertical TikiTaka - how to get more and use to max my 3x CAM

[Kraha]

Hi

I want to upgrade my tactic that I create out after bad starting of season and I decided to deal with narrow 4231 (maybe also later with 5-2-1-2) vertical tiki-taka with more pressing, but I see that we have problem with taking more space in attack (be more wide) so many times I have 4 players in middle and no one of them try to go to wing to give more chance. Also I want to improve my two offensive superstars - Thiago Almada and Matias Palacios. Any ideas? Any advices?

 

 

[HUMBL3B33]

It looks like you're not very clear with your playing system in your mind.

With so many players that high and on attacking duty, i just can't fathom them coming back to get the ball until they habe the trait to do so. And with only 1 player in the mid and 2 WB on the flanks responsible to take the ball upfield it looks more like a necessity for this system to be more direct. 

How many players do you think would come back to defend in case if you loose the ball and they are able to take the ball right upto your box?

With possitive mentality you're basically asking the top 4 to stay up top and wait for your ball to release them. But you don't have anyone playing that ball. You're mezzala will run wide with the ball the DLPd would not have enough tactical freedom to lay those passes off.

This is a tactic that'd be fairly hard tp balance while against bad teams they'd create loads of chances with direct runs at the goal. Against good teams you'll suffocate because of frequent possession loss. 

You need to either go direct passing with cautious mentality to let the players at the back keep the ball for as long as possible and then release it for a runner. For that I'd suggest you to swap mezzala with a DLPs and DLPd to CMd/BWMd. As you have both WBs the only player providing width you can also play double BWMs to try and pressure the flanks up to if you loose the ball. But keep in mind this makes the tactic extremely high in general play. Once they bypass your BWM they're generally just up against your CB.

Another way to play is to drop the AM to midfield and give him a AP role. This would make him the fulcrum of the attack and behind him you can have 2 BWMd to balance the tactic and provide the WB adequate defensive cover. With this approach you can play with a short passing as you have a good blend of passing options to progess the ball up the field.

A general understanding of your tactic also says you have no business of playing mezzala on the same side of a shadow striker that's just plain too easy to get marked and generally keeping both of them very close to each other. As a result drop him to a more conservative role like a DLP or maybe you can be adventurous with a RPM to allow them to open up defensive. 

One thing i noticed is your use of stay wide with shadow strikers. Keep in mind these PIs just enhance the role a bit they wouldn't change it. Stay wide doesn't make them play at the flanks. They'd stay in the middle but only a little wider than usual.

 

There could be a lot many things to be done with this tactic. But i think you can build something with these inputs. Keep special eye on the traits your players have. They'd be very important in a direct system. Even if your playmaker does have a lot of vission passing and technique. He might not be as aggressively putting in those killer balls until he has the trait to do so. That's how the game work. 

[WhyMe]

Haven't tried a 4-2-3-1 narrow in many FM versions so this is more things to try rather than things I know will work, but they are:

Can either of your two SS-a play as a TQ?  If so I would swap the one on the right hand side (i.e. away from the dlp) to that and see how that goes.  The extra roaming and creativity might give you what you need to create more chances without significantly reducing your goal threat from that player.

I would also get rid of the mez-s.  You already have 3 players who will look to get into the box (4 if you count the AM-s) so he is over kill.  Turn him into a more supporting role such as the CAR or a CM-s and you should get less over crowding and better ball retention/chance creation

Last but not least, you could also consider dropping the 2 CMs back to DM, at least in some games.  This would in theory create more space for your AM to drop into to receive the ball and create, improve options for possession retention and give you a nice stable base for defence.  It would in theory also give more space for your TQ to roam into as well if you were to pick one.

 

 

[khodder]

I think you need to simplify the tactic. Remove some of the instruction (Especially the overlaps, which is redundant in this formation)

I'd probably revert back to a balanced mentality. Push the team width wider so that the outside attacking midfielders hold a little bit wider in build up.

Remove the DLP(D) and replace with a CM(D) (Though I am just anti DLP, I don't want to recycle possession in the defensive third, I want the ball higher up the pitch)

Switch from a Complete Forward to an Advanced Forward (less buildup focus, more finishing focus)

 

But overall. Keep it simple.

[Kraha]

@HUMBL3B33@WhyMe@khodder thank you guys for advices.

At least, before your posts I was been trying out my tactic and made some changes that i find out problems with attacking 4 and also 2 CMs. But I do not change roles for CMs, just for more observation, just set CAM from AM (S) to TQ and also striker to CF (A). Find out that it is give us more chances and striker give us more space for trio behind him. But also we have sometimes situation where we have 4-5 players in the box and they can not shot, they just pass through the other. So I was try to give them more attacking instructions, but still no better results. After few games it is looks like below:

So as you can find it out tactic is working, at least, but still I can see that there is some issues, many issues that really I need to resolve. Below Heatmaps from some of matches:

So still we are not playing so wide in attack. Probably as you guys find it out and mostly Mez (S) is covering CAM (TQ) so we have to much players in box and counter attacks can kill us as did with Aston Villa and also because they were playing very wide ball. Below screens with form some of players:
 

As I can see, Romero playing on CF(A) is better and give us more posibilities and chances for goals. Thiago Almada as TQ on CAM position still is not powerful like I want to. Maybe change to AP (S) will give more? About Palacios on SS and other players on this position I see that it is depend of opponents use wide or narrow tactic. About Bird as DLP you can see that he do **** on it and it is not the same player like last season with the same position but different tactic. Gedson on Mez (S) as I said before, he is covering CAM role, so I need to change it. But the most important and impressive is how WB (S) are giving us in attack also on both sides they have a lot work with defending as they are really little bit alone here.

 

Right now I will try this formation:

Edited July 4, 2022 by Kraha

[jondragonborn]

My suggestion:

Change Almada to an Engache. 

The main problem with the Enganche in FM is that he's "isolated" in the Zone 14 and easy to mark out of the game. However, if you are playing him with 2 SS, then he's "screened". Even if the opponent plays with 2 DMCs, one player will always be free. Also, if the opponent DMC has "close more" or something like that, hes probably going after the SS more, what frees the Enganche.

Besides, I would put the other 2 midfields in the DMC strata. That would free a little more space and would facilitate play out of defence.

[Kraha]

what you mean with DMC strata??

[bosque]

hace 2 horas, Kraha dijo:

what you mean with DMC strata??

The Defensive Midfield positions. Where you can use your Anchor, Segundo Volante, Regista, Defensive Midfielder, Halfback, etc

[WhyMe]

Personally I wouldn't expect the new version to work very well.  You have 3 designated playmakers all right next to each other (2TQs and 1 APs), the reason for my original suggestion of switching 1 guy to a TQ was to give you more variety in attack and stop it being so symmetrical, whilst also keeping him far enough away from the other playmaker to avoid them just passing the ball between them (from the ball magnet effect of designated PMs) and getting you nowhere.  That said I prefer the BWMs to a Mez for the midfield 2.  I did suggest trying the CMs in the DM strata like JDB for the same reason and I still think this is worth trying to see how it goes, you should find this helps with the counter attack problem.  Though I think in the long run you might want to have an alternative tactic which has them in the DM strata and one that has them in the CM and then it gives you something different to switch to when things aren't going well.

 

[Kraha]

3 hours ago, bosque said:

The Defensive Midfield positions. Where you can use your Anchor, Segundo Volante, Regista, Defensive Midfielder, Halfback, etc

I just do not know what word STRATA mean

[bosque]

Justo ahora, Kraha dijo:

I just do not know what word STRATA mean

Strata is just the location in the pitch of the position. For example:

Light blue is the strata for the attacking midfielders, yellow the strata for central midfielders, red the strata for defensive midfielders and blue the strata for wingbacks.

I'm talking about POSITIONS, not roles

[Aoyao]

4 小时前, bosque说:

Strata is just the location in the pitch of the position. For example:

Light blue is the strata for the attacking midfielders, yellow the strata for central midfielders, red the strata for defensive midfielders and blue the strata for wingbacks.

I'm talking about POSITIONS, not roles

And ST strata

[bosque]

hace 10 horas, Aoyao dijo:

And ST strata

Yes, those were just examples for some positions.