I am bad at designing tactics in FM. How do I get better?

[Erratic Aspie]

As the title says, I have been playing a fair bit of FM22 recently, and struggling with getting a coherent tactical set up. The last thing I want to do is download a plug and play tactic, indeed, I would like to better understand the instructions in game and how they relate to each other better, and how to diagnose and correct issues as they occur.  Outside of the more general advice, there are also a few concrete questions/issues I have been experiencing which people may be able to help with.

a)  Outside of the occasional exception, I tend to always play with a balanced mentality.  Not sure if this is particularly sensible?

b) In systems when ball retention is desired, I struggle with the problem that my outball is reliably a fullback (I know that this isn't especially uncommon IRL).  I have on occasion managed to find ways of ensuring that the full-back is in space on the overlap (mainly by overloading the other side of the pitch).  

c) In 4-3-3 systems (and to a lesser extent 4321), getting 3rd man runs into the box is something I am struggling to achieve (I appreciate this may be down to the characteristics of the players as much as anything else). If I am intending to do this, I generally go with a CM (A), often with a TM (S) or DLF (S), with quite a lot of natural width coming either from a natural winger or full back. 

d) I have little understanding of what 'Pass Into Space' means. Does this largely impact on through ball frequency, does it encourage players to play to unmarked (or at least relatively free) players, does it simply mean play passes ahead of players, rather than to feet.  I tend to use the instruction at present only in games whereby I am fairly confident that I will have success attacking in transitions.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

[coach vahid]

a) I think Balanded is a good mentality. But its very difficult to be confident on what youre doing. Every player, one day , play on positive. On positive you push up the line, you are more "Come on guys"...

d) For me pass into space, is using for players with attacking duty. The other players play normally. But it encourage them to play a ball in front the players on attack duty.

For b) and c) I cant help you, i'm not good at all for designing tactic.

[prched55]

3 hours ago, Erratic Aspie said:

The last thing I want to do is download a plug and play tactic,

I think this is a good attitude. But don't be afraid to borrow tactics from YouTubers or other people on this forum. It can help when you're just new. 

 

3 hours ago, Erratic Aspie said:

a)  Outside of the occasional exception, I tend to always play with a balanced mentality.  Not sure if this is particularly sensible?

Mentality affects everything in your tactic. Broadly I like to think of it influencing risk taking and the speed of decision making. As you move up in mentality you are telling your players to be more direct, to press more often, to have a higher line of engagement, etc. There is nothing wrong with only creating tactics on Balanced. It's a good starting point and that way you know more clearly what the Team Instructions will be changing. 

3 hours ago, Erratic Aspie said:

b) In systems when ball retention is desired, I struggle with the problem that my outball is reliably a fullback (I know that this isn't especially uncommon IRL).  I have on occasion managed to find ways of ensuring that the full-back is in space on the overlap (mainly by overloading the other side of the pitch).  

I'm not sure what the question is here. But I like to create space for my fullbacks a few ways: 1) just by having more players in the midfield than my opponent, 2) having a narrow attacking width which encourages outside to in passing from my wide players, and 3) focusing play through the middle which encourages my midfielders to stand closer together pulling defenders to the middle. But these are all functions of the tactic I play. So it might be useful to share your tactic. 

3 hours ago, Erratic Aspie said:

c) In 4-3-3 systems (and to a lesser extent 4321), getting 3rd man runs into the box is something I am struggling to achieve (I appreciate this may be down to the characteristics of the players as much as anything else). If I am intending to do this, I generally go with a CM (A), often with a TM (S) or DLF (S), with quite a lot of natural width coming either from a natural winger or full back. 

You're on the right track. Look for traits like gets forward whenever possible and enters opposition box late. Also think about your tempo. If you're playing too fast then there isn't enough time for the midfielder to make that run into space. And finally don't be afraid to play your striker on attack. 

3 hours ago, Erratic Aspie said:

d) I have little understanding of what 'Pass Into Space' means. Does this largely impact on through ball frequency, does it encourage players to play to unmarked (or at least relatively free) players, does it simply mean play passes ahead of players, rather than to feet.  I tend to use the instruction at present only in games whereby I am fairly confident that I will have success attacking in transitions.

You got the right idea. If you notice a bunch of ridiculous passing over the top you can untick it or hit play more disciplined or run at defense to make your players not pass into space as much. 

Edited July 21, 2022 by prched55

[mikelfc8]

Just in case you've not seen it, I recommend Rashidi's BusttheNet channel on you tube. Just excellent.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWUCWx5HNWSuzwGxwVczGPQ

 

[glengarry224]

Pass Into Space:

• It is under 'Approach Play';  
• mostly in transition, your passers will look to make passes which teammates can run onto rather than passing to a teammates feet;
• riskier and requires good passers and receiving players who have good awareness (usually good ant/otb/acc/agi/teamwork);
• even riskier if combined with 'more direct' passing - you will lose the ball a lot more (but can work as an underdog - see below);
• can work very well with 'shorter passing', especially with higher tempo, if you have the right players (think Pep's Barca);
• can create more through balls, or good on-the-run passes to attacking wide players;
• not so useful against teams which sit deep, because there is little space, in approach, to pass into;
• better against teams which sit higher and press more:  for example, your speedy wingback breaks a little behind his marking opponent and you pass to him on-the-run;
• as an underdog:  think of Tottenham playing Liverpool last season:  play a deep box and hope for a few breakaways where you can make a few long, into space passes to speedy breaking away players

 

 

 

[lied90]

For myself, the biggest switch in creating tactics that workes was when I started thinking of FM tactics as something separate from real life football. FM has a meta, especially when it comes to mentality and pressing. As a result, certain settings will work better than others almost regardless of what formation you use and player materiale.

 

Downloading tactics can actually help in this regard, as you will quckly see common denominators in the tactical settings in tactics that consistently bring good results. 

[Andrew Marines]

Il 21/7/2022 in 13:50 , Erratic Aspie ha scritto:

the title says, I have been playing a fair bit of FM22 recently, and struggling with getting a coherent tactical set up. The last thing I want to do is download a plug and play tactic, indeed, I would like to better understand the instructions in game and how they relate to each other better, and how to diagnose and correct issues as they occur.  Outside of the more general advice, there are also a few concrete questions/issues I have been experiencing which people may be able to help with.

1. Learn the game of football outside of FM. Yeah sure, there are things not working that well in the game but how can you create a tactic if you don't understand how tactical styles work or what different players should do when on the ball?

2. Watch full matches. Playing key highlights won't help you in any way possible. At first, while watching, stop the game and try to analyze the situation on the field and watch if you actually are happy of how the players are behaving. I'm not telling you to play every time full match but in the beginning it'll be very helpful.

3. Try roles and don't stuck yourself with the same ones everytime. Too many people(just an example) use ony W, IW, IF when playing AM(LR). God, i know the others are not that intuitive but they could be working better in a specific tactic. Other than that, using different roles will improve a lot your understanding of the game. You'll see different movements you're not used to.

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Andrew Marines

[kepz]

build your defensive set-up first and go from there. start with how your squad limits you--short on quality centerbacks, you probably shouldn't play a back three; are your CBs slow compared to your opposition, don't play a high line; an industrious and aggressive squad will be better at pressing more often, etc. after settling on your defending set-up, then go into attack and finish off with transitions. 

try to unify your instructions under a single tactical theme or goal and think of how your instructions and roles work in tandem to achieve that goal. 

[mibsweden]

Check out Evidence Based FMs Youtube channel. This year I have heard that narrow formations are very good.

[robot_9x3]

 

I will try to answer your questions like all the others before me already have, although I have to preface this, these are my opinions on theses things they are no hard facts and most of the time just the conclusions I have arrived at from playing FM and trying to translate things from there to real football or vice versa.

Am 21.7.2022 um 13:50 schrieb Erratic Aspie:

Outside of the occasional exception, I tend to always play with a balanced mentality.  Not sure if this is particularly sensible?

For a) Balanced is fine. It depends how you see Mentality I see it as exactly what it states to be the approach for a game. But still somewhat tied in to the “it is a risk-meter” that is by now relatively well adopted in the community.
Defensive and Very Defensive try to protect the Goal = Try to not lose badly.
Cautious = try to win but only if there is a great chance of success else we are fine with a draw
Balanced = fine with a draw but this is an open match going either direction
Control = try to win, force chances a bit still fine with a draw
Attacking and Very Attacking = We are favorites we should outscore them anyway doesn’t matter if they score one

And I try to use that during games as well we lead when we shouldn’t I will drop the mentality a bit we lead in the 85 minute I will go Defensive now is the time to get everyone on the goal line to stop them from scoring.  Also just as in real life that can backfire

As others stated the mentalities have an impact on your instructions as well as on the individual players approach as well, so Balanced will give you a clear picture as to what your tactic does in default mode.

Am 21.7.2022 um 13:50 schrieb Erratic Aspie:

In systems when ball retention is desired, I struggle with the problem that my outball is reliably a fullback (I know that this isn't especially uncommon IRL).  I have on occasion managed to find ways of ensuring that the full-back is in space on the overlap (mainly by overloading the other side of the pitch).

For b) You want your Fullbacks to be your out balls? Sounds for me like Wingbacks on Support.
Why Support because in support the player has more of a focus to be there in all phases of the game.
Short excurse on my view on duties:
A Defend Duty focuses on defense. A Fullback or Wingback on Defend will still come forward but less so than on support or attack
A Attack Duty will still track back but will try to be in positions to attack should you win the ball back.
So if you want the Outball he should be free and not already in the oppositions face(Attack)
But not hampered by being too far back having acres of space before him but being a net loss of 50 yards to your attack solely  because his starting position is deep(Defend)
Why Wingback well they are more attacking Fullbacks and they are mores focused on staying wide.

Am 21.7.2022 um 13:50 schrieb Erratic Aspie:

c) In 4-3-3 systems (and to a lesser extent 4321), getting 3rd man runs into the box is something I am struggling to achieve (I appreciate this may be down to the characteristics of the players as much as anything else). If I am intending to do this, I generally go with a CM (A), often with a TM (S) or DLF (S), with quite a lot of natural width coming either from a natural winger or full back.

For c) I don’t understand your problem.. a CM-A will provide you the runs you crave or is your problem that he does not “arrive late” but instead “already stands” in a line with the Striker or infront of him? If you want runs try him on Support he will start his attacking movement later and let your strikers be the main worry of the defenders so give them their attack duty so the runer can appear unmarked. Obviously check the role and duty descriptions. it will be rare for an AP-Su to surge into the box as he aims to position himself right before the box to play his passes.
Here is my current Lazio tactic with a huge outlier game against Juve but you see how much Savic scored he wasn’t on an attack duty hes a standard B2B-Su. Normal FM Wisdom would suggest, to me, my tactic is not attacking enough but for some reason it works here. Keep in mind I don't want Savic to be my main Goalscorer thats Immobile. Savic is just the additional threat who so far scored 5 and assisted 5 in 16 games. Additionaly Savic just has some of the traits you want from someone in his role "Gets into opposition area" and "Gets Forward when possible" which enhances the arriving in the area but they are not required to have someone surge forward from a deeper position. If I would play him in a holder role his traits had far more and probably more negative implications.

Am 21.7.2022 um 13:50 schrieb Erratic Aspie:

d) I have little understanding of what 'Pass Into Space' means. Does this largely impact on through ball frequency, does it encourage players to play to unmarked (or at least relatively free) players, does it simply mean play passes ahead of players, rather than to feet.  I tend to use the instruction at present only in games whereby I am fairly confident that I will have success attacking in transitions.

For d) look at the tactics creator as some people already said that instruction is grouped under "Approach play" so think of when you are building up "your third" and "middle third" how do you want to play to get into the attacking third?
So pass into space just, as it says, instructs every one of your players to look out for passes that another player can run onto. It obviously is not a 100% instruction not every pass will be into space. It just increases the likely hood someone will attempt such a pass.
I think all playmaker roles are allowed to play such passes, regardless of “more risky passes” player instructions. Because “more risky passes” is not the same as “more passes into space”. Also there is a correlation there it's not a causation.
In words: A pass into space is more risky so telling someone to play more risky passes can lead to him playing more passes into space but he may also choose other risky passes.
And from what you are writing you are using it as I would deem it as intended. E.g. If the oppostition plays high or in a weird shape or is way slower try to exploit the space they leave more.

@Erratic Aspie

How do you evaluate if the players do what you wish or if the tactic works as intended?
Do you watch a whole game or just some highlights?
Do you focus on specific or on everything?