How good are AI-led teams at developing players (installing good training regimes etc.)? Equal or better than your own ass man (if you delegate all training)? Plus a question regarding physical pre-season training

[danej]

I ask because I am still undecided how well I want to develop my players. I prefer to play the game in a non-OP way. I don't want to develop my players significantly better than what happens at similar AI-led teams.

 

Not least I am undecided as to how efficient a training regime I want to build. It is obviously very easy to build an OP training regime if you want to.

 

Specifically I wonder: If you delegate all training to the ass man, does he do as good a job as what happens at AI-led teams? In case the ass man does a worse job, to which extent?

 

If delegating all training is uncompetetive, I would probably to some extent take over parts of training myself. In order to improve player development so that it is as good or marginally better than what happens at similar level AI-led teams.

 

A separate question regarding physical pre-season training: In case you wish to improve or perfectionise pre-season training, how many weeks should you opt for a heavy, physically oriented training regime?

 

From what I read and see I would imagine somewhere between 1-6 weeks. Rashidi made a recent YouTube-video where he effectively seems to opt for 1 week (his BootCamp training schedule). Zealand advocates for a similar style heavy physically oriented pre-season training regime, but for 4-6 weeks. Other knowledgeable FM people seem to be within the same range, 1-6 weeks of physically heavy pre-season training.

 

But it would be nice with more detailed input on this last question. It is a big difference whether you spend 1 or 4-6 weeks on physical training. I certainly don't want to do it unless it pays dividends compared to all that other useful stuff that you can do with your training.

 

I suspect that Rashidi is more correct than Zealand on this one, he usually is. But who knows.

 

I play Gegenpress by the way. Perhaps that matters as well. I imagine that it might be wise to add a few extra weeks of physically demanding pre-season training when you use an extremely demanding tactic like that.

[herne79]

If you want to develop your players in essentially an equivalent manner to the AI, delegate everything to your assistant.

If you want to develop players broadly in line with the style of play you want and/or your defined player roles, delegate General Training to your assistant and take charge of individual training yourself.

If you want to be significantly better than the AI (which you don’t) then take charge of everything.

For pre-season, if you don’t want to be significantly better than the AI, either let your assistant handle it (as part of your delegated General Training) or set it up yourself but just do what you think is good.  You’re the manager, not Zealand.  There is no “should” do this or “should” do that unless you are trying to min/max and give yourself a significant edge over the AI, which you don’t want to do anyway.

Basic advice: delegate general training to your assistant; take charge of individual training; set up a friendly every 3 or 4 days for pre-season; give all your players match time during those friendlies to improve their condition; rotate players during the season as they become tired; rest jaded players from training for 7 days and the next match.  That’s still better than the AI but not significantly so.  And stop watching so many videos, they’re confusing you.

[danej]

4 hours ago, herne79 said:

If you want to develop your players in essentially an equivalent manner to the AI, delegate everything to your assistant.

If you want to develop players broadly in line with the style of play you want and/or your defined player roles, delegate General Training to your assistant and take charge of individual training yourself.

If you want to be significantly better than the AI (which you don’t) then take charge of everything.

For pre-season, if you don’t want to be significantly better than the AI, either let your assistant handle it (as part of your delegated General Training) or set it up yourself but just do what you think is good.  You’re the manager, not Zealand.  There is no “should” do this or “should” do that unless you are trying to min/max and give yourself a significant edge over the AI, which you don’t want to do anyway.

Basic advice: delegate general training to your assistant; take charge of individual training; set up a friendly every 3 or 4 days for pre-season; give all your players match time during those friendlies to improve their condition; rotate players during the season as they become tired; rest jaded players from training for 7 days and the next match.  That’s still better than the AI but not significantly so.  And stop watching so many videos, they’re confusing you.

I don't agree on the "stop watching videos", I think I learn a lot from it. But I appreciate all the rest, great input.

[danej]

4 hours ago, herne79 said:

And stop watching so many videos, they’re confusing you.

Another thought: You are sort of right, watching videos etc. does make me confused at times. But in this case I see it as a good thing. This sort of confusion means that I am learning something interesting about the game. Before I started learning about the game, I just played very rigidly. Played like I used to do, had no clue about anything, knew nothing about in which aspects of the game I performed well (compared to the AI) and in which aspects I didn't perform well.

I prefer to learn a lot about the game. Then I find it easier to eventually make my own informed decisions. To decide in which aspects I prefer to overperform compared to the AI, and in which aspects I don't want to overperform. Before I started learning about the game I had no clue about anything (I realize now). Including that I was too incompetent to judge my own performance level in various aspects of the game. In any case, this is how I appreciate to play the game.

I would imagine that many experienced and knowledgeable FM players have gone through the same process at some point. Learning a lot about the game or at least certain interesting aspects of it. And eventually knowing what you want to know, toning down the research, settling on your preferred playing style, rarely learning much new about the game.

All this reminds me - I think that at times there is a way of debating on this forum that is not ideal (at least of this training/tactics subforum, I barely know the other ones). Sort of like - a few of experienced users are at times a bit impatient and belittling towards newer users. Sort of like, "just keep quiet and play the game", "stop obsessing about details about the game mechanics, it is not that important". I can certainly understand why many if not most experienced FM players might feel that way. But still I would think that a lot of players, perhaps primarily inexperienced players like myself, appreciate obsessing about game details, at least for a while. Before we also learn enough, find our way, lose interest in further extensive research.

[herne79]

35 minutes ago, danej said:

I don't agree on the "stop watching videos", I think I learn a lot from it. But I appreciate all the rest, great input.

What I mean is you seem to be watching a lot of videos which are giving you bad information which you've already been advised about in one of your other threads.  I appreciate you want to learn more and more about the game, which is great, but bad information will teach you nothing other than confusion.

So it's not really a case of being impatient or belittling people, it's more a case of why continue to do it if you've already been given the advice .

[danej]

Perhaps part of the problem is sort of different perception. More specifially: I suspect that with FM, as with many things in life, it is difficult to learn new stuff. At least complex stuff such as becoming knowledgeable about FM. Stil more specifically, I am not aware myself that I ask questions where I have already been giving the relevant advice. I trust you and guess you are right when you say so. But my point is, perhaps I just don't get it the first time. Perhaps not the second or third time either. Like a student at school. I think it is like this in many aspects of life. The knowledgeable teacher feels like he has given all the advice and information that needs to be given. At that is sort of true. At the same time, some slow to normal learning students might just not get it. They get perhaps 10, 30, 60% of what is being said. The rest they didn't get. They didn't even understand the least bit of some crucial parts of the information given.

I often notice that with my ongoing FM learning now. I can read or watch the same stuff several times. And I will learning some new and important every time. Something I just totally didn't get the first or second time I looked at the material.

 

I can certainly understand if me asking similar questions repeatedly is annoying and I apologize if I sometimes do that. Just know that that is never my intention. I guess it is about my unknown unknowns as Donald Rumsfeld once said. I know so little about FM that some knowledgeable person can explain stuff to me 1, 2, 3 times, and parts of it I still won't get. Sometimes I guess I don't even remember the least bit of the advice given, it is beyond me, too complex for me to understand even small bits.

 

Personally I don't think this is about you or me or any other specific person here. I imagine this is a general dynamics here and elsewhere. Incompetent, possibly slow learning students like myself, eager to learn, needing many repetitions before they finally get it. Knowledgeable people who could get slightly annoyed at times because of seemingly being asked the same question over and over.

 

Btw just to be clear I appreciate all the great input you have given me here and on earlier occasions. And I certainly won't hold it against you if you at times ignore my posts, in case I unknowingly ask sort of a similar question that has been answered before.

 

A final thought - I don't think I am the only one gathering advice (good or bad) from many different sources. If possible I would prefer to only use top quality sources. Perhaps this forum is the best, I am in no position to judge that. But in any case I think there is a lack of guides etc. on this forum. The guides that exist, the pinned posts, manuals from SI etc. are vague and sparse in their information. I think that drives many people towards Youtubers etc. of dubious quality. Better to have some dubious opinion on a given topic than to get no input at all. SI should make much more extensive game manuals in the future.

Edited July 26, 2022 by danej

[herne79]

You're not annoying, neither am I annoyed.  It's good that you ask questions.  I would however question "Better to have some dubious opinion on a given topic than to get no input at all" if you already know it's dubious.

18 minutes ago, danej said:

SI should make much more extensive game manuals in the future.

I kind of agree and I'd certainly agree their in game tooltips are lacking.  SI's stance on the matter though is they intentionally don't go into much detail - they'd rather provide some guidance rather than hold our hands every step of the way.  This is what you tend to find from the better content creators as well, like rashidi or cleon - they'll give us the principles of how things operate rather than simply telling us to do xyz.

Now ok, lots of people do want someone holding their hand and to tell them what to do to "win".  And there are plenty of content creators like that too, no problem at all.  But I don't think you're one of those people - I think you want to know how things work rather than just giving you something which does work.  So as you do want to learn general principles of how things work I'll correct myself: "stop watching so many videos except rashidi's". 

[danej]

14 minutes ago, herne79 said:

You're not annoying, neither am I annoyed.  It's good that you ask questions.  I would however question "Better to have some dubious opinion on a given topic than to get no input at all" if you already know it's dubious.

I don't really know what is dubious and what is not. Some stuff is obviously dubious. But at the moment I feel like there is a lot of stuff that I find valuable that seems disregarded on this forum. Certain Youtubers and web pages. It could be that you guys on this forum is right and that certain YouTubers etc. are overrated. And I wouldn't be surprised if I eventually land on that conclusion myself. But I am not there at the moment. And as mentioned, I generally think that the information obtainable via guides etc. on this forum is generally to sparse, not detailed enough. so there is a need for more info.

[danej]

18 minutes ago, herne79 said:

So as you do want to learn general principles of how things work I'll correct myself: "stop watching so many videos except rashidi's". 

He, that is funny  I suspect it is true as well, but at the moment I can't judge that, I don't have enough knowledge. I suspect that I will eventually find out that you are right.

[danej]

20 minutes ago, herne79 said:

I kind of agree and I'd certainly agree their in game tooltips are lacking.  SI's stance on the matter though is they intentionally don't go into much detail - they'd rather provide some guidance rather than hold our hands every step of the way.  This is what you tend to find from the better content creators as well, like rashidi or cleon - they'll give us the principles of how things operate rather than simply telling us to do xyz.

Does cleon have a YouTube channel? What it is called?

[herne79]

31 minutes ago, danej said:

Does cleon have a YouTube channel? What it is called?

No but keep an eye on the forum .

[danej]

1 hour ago, herne79 said:

"stop watching so many videos except rashidi's". 

Btw do you have more specific suggestions regarding which of his videos or playlists to watch? There are so many videos on his channel, a jungle in itself.

[Guest]

15 hours ago, danej said:

Btw do you have more specific suggestions regarding which of his videos or playlists to watch? There are so many videos on his channel, a jungle in itself.

Watch as many as you can, just keep watching them all when you have time especially the tutorials, even from past editions of FM for which most are still relevant. I don't like ragging on the content creators but most of them are literally either trying to game the engine or are brilliant at talking but tactically useless. Id put most that you had on your list in that bracket. "Tuning out the noise" is something we get taught in share trading, and it's true for FM. Find 3-5 people who can be trusted(and you already have those) and focus on what they teach and then come here if you need clarifications.